Five Rules for the Good Life Podcast

Trinity Mouzon Wofford

Trinity’s Five Rules for Eating Well on a Budget This week I’m joined by Trinity Mouzon Wofford [https://www.trinitymouzon.com/], the co-founder and CEO of Golde [https://golde.co/?srsltid=AfmBOopRJ2Xb7LeEYYSmSvA_O5Iyh6B1117rhyBsXfB0ua_xAISLODYE] and author of Eating at Home: The Nourishing Practice of Everyday Cooking [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/769238/eating-at-home-by-trinity-mouzon-wofford-with-rebecca-firkser/]. Trinity shares her Five Rules for Eating Well on a Budget, from rethinking the farmer’s market and building a produce pantry at home, to embracing the bulk aisle, and making meals something to share. It’s a conversation that reminds us that cooking well isn’t about spending more, it’s about paying attention, building habits, and finding joy in the everyday rituals that nourish both ourselves and the people around us. I’ve believed for a long time that money isn’t the best measure of abundance in the kitchen. Some of the most memorable meals I’ve ever shared were built from simple ingredients, thoughtful planning, and the desire to make sure everyone left the table feeling cared for. Trinity’s rules reinforce something I’ve come to appreciate over years of cooking and hosting: generosity isn’t about extravagance. It’s about effort, about taking the time to cook for someone else, pulling up another chair, stretching what’s in the pot just a little farther, and discovering that the richest meals are often the ones made with the greatest intention. Introduction Hello and welcome to five rules for the good life I’m your host Darin Bresnitz today I’m joined by Trinity Mouzon Wofford who is the co-founder and CEO of Golde and whose new cookbook eating at home the nourishing practice of everyday cooking is one of my favorite cookbooks of the season she’s here to share her five rules for eating well on a budget she talks about the importance of not side eyeing the farmers market that by building your own produce pantry will allow you to put affordable recipes and that by joining together around the table is not only a way to save money but will enrich your life overall it’s a fantastic conversation for anyone who’s looking to get more out of their dollars at the markets and to also support the local community at the same time so let’s get into the rules here on HRN Trinity it is so nice to meet you thank you for coming to us all the way from hudson valley appreciate you making the time to be on the show thanks darren I’m excited to talk some rules yes you have had a long career as a writer what drew you into the food world specifically I think I’ve always identified romantically as being a writer but the core of a lot of my work has been on the entrepreneurial side building a brand sure the book came about I mean I’ve always been involved in this health and wellness world through Golde and so that edible side of it was there I was pregnant with my first kid I was in the depths of running my business and I wasn’t a professional chef but why did any of that stop you from running your first cookbook it almost did the woman who ended up being my agent I think that I came to her and said I really don’t think it’s a good time but funnily enough I trusted her faith in my vision rather than saying no or diving all the way in I kind of just kept taking the next step and the next step and I wouldn’t say it was a before you know it because the whole thing took four years of course before I knew it there was a book writing your first cookbook Starting your own business getting started as a writer all of the early points of any of those endeavors notoriously do not pay well but that doesn’t mean you have to eat poorly right what do you remember of those early days and those early dishes that you cooked at home from that scrappy time in your life I was in my early 20s when I started my business I co-founded it with my now husband shout out we’re high school sweethearts so it’s been codependent for a really long time we didn’t have a lot of funds to go around I was at this time pulling out forty dollars a week in grocery budget sure I actually found that my dollars went a lot further when I skipped the supermarket and went straight to the union square farm where I could go direct to farmers that also helped to inform a more seasonal way of eating most of the time lunch was rice with a pickled red cabbage on top over and over again like it’s spring so there’s turnips a lot of it was this very simple food that was also deeply comforting deeply nourishing and pretty friendly to a tight budget Just because you’re on a budget doesn’t mean you don’t have to eat well and that you don’t have stories to tell and that is very true in your first book eating at home the nourishing practice of everyday cooking given that it was a multi-year journey to write this and you had your business and your baby there was so much life to fit into this book how did you narrow down the stories and recipes you wanted to share the recipes are all mine and my husband issei’s home recipes beautiful so a lot of it was really issei and I writing down and collecting what our meals were on any given week the sunday pancakes or the lunches which are still usually rice with vegetables the first idea for the book was okay well we’re going to talk about how to eat well according to trinity founder of Golde right the first things that I was coming up with were eat more locally make a ritual of visiting your farmers markets etc and the response that I would get as I started to put those ideas together was this is very nice it’s a process it’s about chiseling the thing out of the stone right yes the response tended to be people are busy yep what can they do that’s a little bit more realistic I knew we were all busy and yet I think that’s really the reason why we need more home cooking than ever yes we are simultaneously living at a time where we’re so aware of meditation and exercise and all of these practices to be more we know that we’re stressed we’re going to therapy yes one of the things that has helped me the most in feeling more grounded in the moment is cooking sitting down to a meal is even grocery shopping with my family in a way that isn’t like let me get this over with Seeing how you practice what you preach when it comes to cooking and living that life I am so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for eating well on a budget just because you don’t have a lot of money to spend doesn’t mean you can’t spend it smartly and support your local community Rule #1: Don’t Side-Eye the Farmer’s Market Which ties into your rule number one rule number one is don’t side eye the farmer’s market I have been on a tear with this when I was talking about the book I would say oh the farmer’s market and it was like oh the farmer’s market your basket your tote bag the farmer’s market trips people up because for the most part they get stuck on the strawberries yes they’re like oh my god 14 a pint I can’t afford to eat here this is ridiculous you’re missing the hard-working produce you’re messing the turnips you’re mixing the rutabagas you’re missing the kale the potatoes that stuff is not on average any more expensive than you’ll find at the supermarket so often we feel like the sky is falling and there’s nothing we can do except vote and pray but like one other thing that you could do hear me out on this is you can find small opportunities to funnel your dollars into more direct localized economies that does not have to mean all of a sudden going full barter it could just mean getting your potatoes from once you start buying this produce you will understand how much you can physically get for the money that you spend so much so that you might get overwhelmed by how much you’re bringing home but having Rule #2: Build a Produce Pantry of Always-There Staples Rule number two is build a produce pantry of always their staples one of the things that freaks people out the most about cooking from scratch is they buy some vegetables and then they open up their fridge and it’s 5 30 pm and everyone’s already hungry and they have no idea what to do with a cauliflower or how to combine it with whatever they’ve got sure you get better at that the more you cook but the secret to accelerating the pace is to just buy the yes there’s a lot of produce whether it’s leafy greens or it’s just things that store really well that are going to be available nearly year-round you can build out a habit of buying them again and again so you can sprinkle in the fun little seasonal things try something new but ideally when you’re opening up the fridge and trying to figure out what to cook you’re not staring down a whole bunch of stuff that you’ve never cooked before this idea of creating a familiar supermarket or pantry within your house does come with practice both in figuring out your preferences in what you eat and what you like to cook once you’ve discovered what works for you heading through this Rule #3: Venture Into the Bulk Aisle Section of any supermarket makes up your rule number three rule number three venture into the bulk aisle this took me a really long time interesting I am a fairly new convert to the bulk aisle most of what you’re paying for and I can say this with confidence because as an entrepreneur in the consumer product space it really is this way most of what you’re paying for when you buy a food product is packaging if you can bypass the cost of somebody siphoning off your almonds into a nice little packet and the cost of the packaging itself you can save a whole lot of money on your grocery bill so what I buy in bulk right now now are popping corn kernels and I make popcorn myself right there with you oh my god you don’t have to spend seven dollars on chips anymore cooking oils vinegars that great machine where they grind the peanut butter for you when you press the button that’s joyful instant whimsy you also organize things into your own jars etc and it makes it a lot neater and easier to have all of your stuff in the cabinet all these separate branded boxes and bags are so it’s like a nightmare and then I don’t want to go in there and I don’t want to cook and you’re heaving this great sigh trying to find your baking powder or what have you once you have a working kitchen and a working pantry you’ve organized it you know it’s in there you know what you like working then you got to get to the actual process of putting it together which is a fundamental tenant Rule #4: Great Ingredients, Simply Cooked Of your rule number four rule number four is great ingredients simply cooked I think one of the things that freaks people out about cooking from scratch is this idea of these very involved multi-step processes you’re gonna need 10 different spices and you’re going to buy a spice just for one recipe and you’re never going to use it again sure I like to get the best quality stuff I can get within reason that is saving you more money than any other tip yes buy a good olive oil find a salt that you like when you get a good vegetable from the farmer’s market you can just slice it up and put some olive oil and salt over it and just call it a day for like 70 percent of dishes. Rule #5: Eat Together Ii love the process of cooking and I think once you get into this rhythm and this world of being one with your kitchen it really is a beautiful thing and your fifth and final rule talks about once you bring more food and more joy nto your kitchen you’re able to do this what’s your rule number five rule number five is eat together I love it if you have literally anyone else at the table with you it feels so much more obvious and beneficial to make something and make it a little lovely it’s harder to do that if you’re constantly eating alone there’s a difference between the occasional peaceful meal to yourself which I definitely can appreciate as mom and the habitual avoidance of some sort of communal gathering it doesn’t matter if you’re living with family or however your situation looks this could just be getting some friends over on a weekend the other big benefit of eating together too is that then you’re getting into this process of the collective and you’re talking about being in the kitchen together sharing the workload of prepping the food cleaning up afterwards you find as you start to build out these habits of eating more collectively that there’s more than enough to go around Always. Closing Trinity, congratulations on everything. If people want to get the book, if people want to check out Golde, if they’re going to be a little bit and people want see what you’re cooking, where can they go? How can they see what You’re Up To? I have a website and it’s TrinityMouzon.com The Book Eating at Home is available everywhere that books are sold. Golde is Golde with an E at the end, .co .co and on Instagram I am at Trinity Muzan and Golde is at Golde. I love the book, and hopefully I’m in the Hudson Valley soon, and we can eat together and celebrate life. That sounds wonderful, thank you, Darin. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].

Renata Ameni

Renata’s Five Rules for Bringing Fine Dining to Everyday Baking This week, I sit down with Renata Ameni [https://www.instagram.com/renata.ameni/?hl=en], executive pastry chef and partner at Birdee [https://www.instagram.com/birdeenyc/?hl=en], to talk about bringing the mindset of fine dining into everyday baking. After spending years in some of the world’s most exacting kitchens, Renata shares her Five Rules for Bringing Fine Dining to Every Day Baking. She talks about one piece of equipment that is a must-have, how to set up your station for success, buy a scale, and to never overlook the power of a thoughtful garnish. Whether you’re baking your very first loaf of bread or trying to make your cakes, cookies, and pastries just a little bit better, these are practical lessons that will immediately change the way you approach the craft. One of the things I admire most about Renata is that she doesn’t see fine dining as something exclusive or unattainable. Instead, she treats it as a way of thinking. Precision isn’t about perfectionism; it’s about removing variables so your creativity has room to shine. The same discipline that helped her succeed at Eleven Madison Park and Saga now shows up in a neighborhood bakery where the goal is simple: make someone’s day a little better through a great pastry. It’s a reminder that excellence rarely comes from complicated techniques. More often, it’s the accumulation of small, intentional decisions repeated over and over again until they become second nature. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m back in Greenpoint chatting with Renata Ameni, who is the executive pastry chef and partner at Birdee. She’s here to share her five rules for bringing fine dining to everyday baking, about the importance of having a scale at home, how choosing the right plateware elevates what you bake, and that by perfecting the balance of salt and acid, you’ll be able to level up your at-home baking game. It is incredible insights for someone who has baked at some of the highest levels of dining and a great guide for anyone who’s looking to try baking at home for the first time or for anyone who’s looking to raise their prowess. So let’s get into the rules here on HRN. From Brazil to Fine Dining Renata, so nice to meet you coming from my old stomping ground of Williamsburg and Greenpoint. Thanks for making the time to sit down and chat with me. Of course, thank you for having me. Brazil has such a rich tradition of pastries. What do you love about Brazilian baking culture that is different than French or Italian or any other parts of the world? First of all, it has a lot of eggs, has a lot of yolks because it comes from the Portuguese. So the Portuguese nuns, they use egg whites to starch their uniforms, so they had all these egg yolks leftover. So they start making sweets with that. I feel like in Brazil, the pastries, the sweets, they’re very easy to make. It’s very easy to make at home. It’s fast. You don’t need thousands of equipment or anything like that. So I think that this is great. Lessons from the World’s Best Kitchens You’ve worked at some of the highest upper echelons of fine dining, Jean-Georges, Eleven Madison Park, and Reisa. What mentality and what tips did you take away from those moments in your career? Those places changed my life. It was a lot about discipline, especially at Eleven Madison Park. The practice, like boring thing that you have to make every day, that really makes you better. The way that you approach your cooking, more than just sit down to eat, it’s the whole experience to make people feel that they’re special. Opening Birdee Pulling from your background from Brazil and baking there and working in these fine dining restaurants, you have now opened your first solo bakery, Birdee, in Williamsburg. When did you realize it was time to take flight on your own? What did you want to say? Working in restaurants, pastry chef always has to kind of adapt to what the savory chef is doing, right? Sure. I always had all the freedom at Crown Shy and Saga and everything that James would let me do anything. But still, you have to align with the kind of food that the restaurant serves. At one point, I’m like, I just want to be able to do my own thing. It’s not that I wasn’t. I really was. I just wanted not to be behind anyone’s shadow, which was really hard for me because then you kind of own the spotlight. Everything you make is on you. Can’t blame on anyone else. The Five Rules Rule #1: Get a Scale I am not a baker. I am much more comfortable as a savory chef. A lot of the times when you think about that type of cooking, you go more to these fine dining, high-end, Michelin-star type restaurants. What most people don’t realize is that you need to bring those same elements if you want to have that same type of success when you’re making baked goods, which is why I’m so excited for you to chat about your five rules for bringing fine dining to everyday baking. Now, when I got into bread, I got the first piece of equipment that you talk about and it changed everything. What’s your rule number one? Get a scale. Full stop. It’s the simplest thing. It doesn’t have to be a fancy scale or anything like that. You can get measuring spoons too. No. Just get the scale. It’s worth it. It’s a little investment. It’s going to really change the way you bake. It’s easier, you’re going to make less mistakes, and it’s going to be worth it. Rule #2: Have Your Mise en Place Ready Once you get a scale, once you know the exact weights, I have found that being prepared is another key part of baking. So being prepared in this way is a big part of rule number two. Have your, we call it in restaurants, mise en place. It’s going to be a huge problem. You’re going to have to do it all over again. And that’s what I tell my team. I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I still do it. I finish scaling things. I go back to the recipe and I kind of cross everything that is already scaled. You can always adjust to savory. When that bread is fully baked, there’s no putting salt back in. No, there’s not. And it depends on the bread you’re making. You have sourdough, whatever. It’s going to take you three days to be able to make that recipe again. Rule #3: Elevate Your Plateware Since I mostly make pizzas, I have either a cutting board or a metal pizza platter that I serve all my food on. Anytime I do anything else, I feel like the presentation is always lacking. Having these elements in your pantry makes up your rule number three. The plateware where you serve your food is going to matter because a lot of fine dining is the presentation. Have wooden boards or if you have a big platter, things that are really nice that you already have at home. It’s not like you have to go buy anything. Of course. Be creative. Sometimes you think you have this vintage stuff at home that was from your mom or your grandma. It’s going to elevate whatever you want. Rule #4: Garnishes Matter Once you have the pastry or the bread or whatever you baked on the plate, adding little flourishes can take what you’re making up to another level, which is your rule number four. Garnishes, they matter. If you’re making a cake, make a crumble. Put a little crumble on top. Put fresh fruits. If you’re able to buy microgreens and microflowers, they’re your best friends. It takes nothing. You don’t have to do anything. But if you put it on top, it already looks super elevated. Rule #5: Balance with Salt and Acid You’ve done the measuring. You’ve done the plating. But when you’re thinking about what goes into making an elevated fine dining type of baked good, pulling from the savory world makes up your fifth and final rule. What’s rule number five? Salt and acid. All the time. All the time. Always salt. And acid is super important, especially for cake. Put some acid in the frosting. It’s going to take something that is, “Oh, this is tasty,” to, “Oh my God, this is amazing.” I like this burnt honey cake that we make at Birdee. It’s very salty in a good way because there’s the burnt honey and you add the salt and it just brings you to a whole other level. I like to serve it with a very acidic strawberry sorbet. Where to Find Birdee Renata, if people want to see what you’re serving or check out what you’re doing or just come by the shop, where can they go? Come to Birdee at the Refinery at the Domino Building, and we’re there literally every day of the week. Amazing. Well, Renata, I cannot wait to swing in and grab some pastries. Something very sweet and something very sour. Thank you so much for having me. I hope to see you there soon. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].

Joe Beddia

Joe's Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself Joe Beddia didn’t just build one of the best pizzerias in America—he built a world. From the moment you walk down the alley and step through the door at Pizzeria Beddia, you can feel that every detail exists for a reason. In this episode, Joe shares his Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself, from finding work that genuinely inspires you to surrounding yourself with people you want to spend your days alongside. We also talk about the challenge of protecting your values as success arrives, why your name is your most valuable asset, and how building something lasting requires equal parts conviction, curiosity, and restraint. Whether you’re opening a restaurant, starting a business, or simply trying to create a life that feels like your own, Joe’s rules are a thoughtful roadmap for doing meaningful work on your own terms. There’s something about going home to Philadelphia that always resets me. Maybe it’s because so much of who I am was shaped there, or maybe it’s because the city has always rewarded people who care more about substance than spectacle. Every trip home is an excuse to revisit old favorites, but even more than that, it’s a chance to see what people have built since I left. Joe’s restaurant is one of those places. It isn’t just a great pizzeria—it feels complete. Every corner, every plate, every decision reflects the same point of view. As someone who spends a lot of time talking to people about creativity, I find fully realized visions endlessly inspiring. They’re a reminder that the best work doesn’t happen by accident. It happens when someone has the courage to imagine an entire world—and then patiently builds it, one decision at a time. Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself Joe Beddia Hi everyone, before we get into today’s episode, I have a little bit of housekeeping to take care of. I am so excited to announce that I am partnering with the Food Institute who has acquired HRN and is the new home for Five Rules for the Good Life. Together, we’re going to be growing I couldn’t be more excited about this new partnership and excited to see where we take the show. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m in my hometown of Philadelphia chatting with Joe Beddia, the chef and owner of Pizzeria Beddia and the author of the incredible pizza book Pizza Camp. He’s here to share his Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself. We talk about the importance of doing things that inspire you, working with people you want to be around, and staying true to your vision and values as you grow. It’s a great conversation for anyone starting their own business—or anyone looking to build something meaningful with intention. So let’s get into the rules. Building a World Joe, so good to see you. Thanks again for all the hospitality the last time I was in Philly. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Excited to be here. For anyone who’s ever visited Pizzeria Beddia, they really get a sense of your vision. How did you approach bringing your worldview and mentality into the restaurant? I had a unique circumstance where I had a very small pizzeria for five years. It was literally myself making pizza in a 300-square-foot shoebox. When our lease was up, I was approached by a startup restaurant group in Philadelphia. I got creative control over the menu, the design, and everything, which is probably pretty rare. I worked with a lot of friends and really tried to create something special. It was a different time. We were developing this in 2017. Money was different. We did it for a lot less and got a lot more for our dollar. I was there when it opened, and I was there a couple months ago. You can still feel the DNA of what you wanted to build, even though it’s evolved over the years. How has it changed? It’s evolved through the people. We have different cooks now. Our head chef and sous chefs are different. I’d probably say the restaurant is the best it’s ever been. That’s really a testament to those individuals and how they’re able to work together. At this point, I don’t really want any credit. I created something, but I’d like them to take ownership. Giving someone the opportunity to be creative and own new menu items has been amazing. From my perspective, it’s such a great experience because you walk down this little alleyway, see the neon sign, walk through the door, and suddenly you’re inside this whole world you’ve built. What do you hope people feel when they come here? I like keeping tradition alive by using really great ingredients and making well-fermented dough, but I also like stretching ourselves creatively. We pickle strawberries and make burrata salads. You can come for a traditional pizza that reminds you of your childhood, but you can also have a great soft serve with amaro on top or a beautiful bottle of wine. It’s about honoring tradition while giving ourselves permission to be creative in the same space. Now that you’ve been open since 2019, written an incredible book, and received so much recognition, I’m excited for you to share your Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself. Rule One Go Where You Feel Comfortable A lot of people feel like they have to constantly push themselves or chase opportunities that don’t really fit who they are. But your first rule is about grounding yourself before you build something. What’s Rule Number One? Go where you feel comfortable. That’s a tricky thing because you should absolutely challenge yourself. But you should also feel like you’re in a space that makes sense for you. You want to work for a great chef. It might be difficult. But if you’re learning and growing, every failure becomes growth. It’s kind of like Philadelphia. You come into this town and it’s rough around the edges. But once you prove yourself, people invite you into their homes. Kitchens work the same way. You have to earn your place. Rule Two Find What Inspires You You have to be inspired enough that you’re willing to dedicate your time—and really part of your life—to something. I feel fortunate because I became obsessed with pizza while working in restaurants. I’d travel to New York, visit all the old-school places, go to Di Fara, Totonno’s, Una Pizza. I was fascinated by serious pizza makers. Eventually I started experimenting on my own and realized, “I want to take a shot at this.” How do you become inspired? For me, it was traveling and tasting. That’s what changed everything. Once I found that inspiration, I decided to go all in. Rule Three Work With People You Want to Be Around Going all in on a restaurant means endless hours. Finding the right people to spend those hours with is one of the hardest parts. What’s Rule Number Three? Work with people you want to be around. Someone doesn’t have to have the most experience in the world. They just have to be a good person. They need to care, show initiative, and be interested in learning. You can teach almost anyone the technical side of the job if they’re passionate about the work. Rule Four Figure Out What Medicine Works for You Even if you’ve found inspiration and surrounded yourself with good people, this work is still incredibly difficult. There are great days and terrible days. Rule Number Four? Figure out what medicine works for you. It’s a little tongue-in-cheek because when I started, the medicine that worked for me was drinking—which isn’t something I’d recommend to anyone. Eventually it led me down a path where I was overusing alcohol to deal with stress. That pushed me toward therapy and healthier ways of dealing with anxiety. I’m not sober, but I have a completely different perspective than I did in 2013 when I opened the original pizzeria. I just opened a restaurant in London, and I realized that one of my rules now is simply finding something healthy that genuinely works for you. There’s a tremendous amount of stress in this business, and you need a way to manage it. Rule Five Your Name Is Your Currency Now that you have two restaurants and years of success behind you, I’m sure you’ve had opportunities that didn’t align with the world you wanted to build. Your fifth rule is about staying true to yourself. Trying to stay true to who you are and your values. There are always going to be offers. People will want you to sell something or attach your name to something you don’t really believe in. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve done less and less of those things. Your name is your currency. It’s all you really have. So you want to spend it on things you genuinely believe in and can be proud of. Closing Joe, congratulations on everything. If people want to come have a slice, a whole pie, a bottle of wine, or simply experience the world you’ve built, where should they go? Pizzeria Beddia, 1313 North Lee Street in Philadelphia. Or Bar Aetna in the Newington Green neighborhood of London. Incredible. Joe, I can’t wait. I’ll be back for Thanksgiving and we’ll definitely stop by to pick up some pies to bring home. Thanks for making the time. Great to see you as always. Excellent. Thank you. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].

Adrianne Calvo

Chef Adrianne Calvo [https://www.instagram.com/chefadrianne/?hl=en] has built a life around the belief that flavor is the ultimate north star. As the chef, writer, and restaurateur behind Chef Adrianne's Vineyard Restaurant and Bar [https://chefadriannes.com/] in Miami, she has spent her career proving that the fundamentals never go out of style. In this episode, she breaks down her Five Rules for Cooking with Maximum Flavor — from why the real work happens before anything ever hits the pan, to how controlling moisture is the secret most cooks overlook, to why the final ten percent of a dish is responsible for ninety percent of its impact. Whether you are cooking for the people you love or just trying to get more out of what you make at home, this one will change the way you think about what's on your plate. What I love about sitting down with Chef Adrianne is that she reminds you that flavor is not a technique, it's a commitment. It's easy to chase trends, to pile on ingredients, to rush to the finish line — and she calls all of that out with such clarity and warmth that you immediately want to go back into the kitchen and start over. The way she talks about tension, contrast, and intention made me think less about cooking and more about how the best experiences in life are the ones that engage you rather than just comfort you. That's the kind of conversation that sticks with you long after the meal is over For my first piece for Caper [https://caper.media/], I wrote about Jingbo Lou [https://caper.media/p/landlord-betting-on-los-angeles-restaurants-alpine-court] and the incredible community he has helped build at L.A.’s Alpine Courtyard. His approach to the landlord-tenant relationship is a true innovation and something that could be a north star for the shifting restaurant landscape. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m in Miami sitting down with chef, writer, restaurateur, and teacher, Adrianne Calvo, whose spot, Chef Adrianne’s Vineyard, Restaurant, and Bar, has been serving up. She’s here to share her five rules for cooking with maximum flavor. She talks about the importance of preparation before putting anything in the pan, that the amount of moisture in a dish can be maker and that the final 10% of finishing determines 90% of its impact. It is a great conversation for anyone who leads with flavor in the kitchen as looking for extra tips to get the most out of what they make at home. So let’s get into the rules. Getting Started: A Culinary Journey Chef Adrianne, so nice to meet you. Thank you for sitting down with me all the way from Miami. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. You got into the culinary world at such a young age. What foods and flavors drew you in? I got into the — yeah, I wanted to be a journalist. I was put in a cooking class by mistake my junior year of high school, and it wasn’t until Johnson and Wales University came in and did a demo doing a strawberry and cream cheese stuffed French toast that completely enchanted and captivated me. That exact dish that made me switch paths for the rest of my life. Hopping on this path must have opened up such a big world to you and put you on so many adventures, including heading to Napa Valley, which was a big inspiration for you in your life and your restaurant, Chef Adrianne’s Vineyard Restaurant and Bar. What was it about that area that inspired you so much? One of the culinary competitions that I had won while at Johnson & Wales University, and I chose to go to Napa Valley because going to culinary school, they really focus on that connection of the land, the food, and the wine and how it makes people feel. I’ve been hearing about for two years now. I want to feel it. I want to go experience it. And I wasn’t even of legal drinking age. Boots on the ground. I remember going with my mom and I was like, oh my gosh, everything they said is real. This is like Narnia for bon vivant. I remember thinking one day, if I ever have a restaurant, I want to bring that feeling to Miami. At that time, Miami was really missing the mark. There was no connection to land, food, wine, sitting down at a table, bursting with different flavors, really knowing the story of where your food came from. Don’t even get me started on the wine. I don’t even know if Miami knew the term wine in the early 2000s. Napa really inspired my very first restaurant, Chef Adrian’s Vineyard Restaurant and Bar. That’s not to say that your restaurant doesn’t follow those, but it seems that flavor is your North Star. Oh, yes. Why does that element of cooking dictate everything you do? It’s the fundamental belief that trends come and go. And much like fashion, Coco Chanel that said, what’s great will always be great. I’m just paraphrasing it. That’s what classics are. And you are right. We don’t follow trends. We’re actually the opposite of that. The human experience of being able to find the guiding principles in your cooking and your life and your business makes me so excited for you to share your five rules for cooking with maximum flavor. Rule #1: Build Flavor Before Heat Ever Touches the Pan Your first rule is something that I have gotten so much better at and learned the importance of as I’ve cooked over the years. What’s your rule number one? Rule number one is build flavor before heat ever touches the pan. So many people rush to get things in a pan. Maximum flavor doesn’t begin at the stove. It begins in preparation, seasoning your proteins in advance, tempering ingredients the right way, and understanding how salt migrates and what separates dimensional cooking from flat execution. Rule #2: Control Moisture Like It’s Currency You talk about salt and you talk about adding flavor. Some of the times when people prepare a dish in advance, there’s a marinade or they’re drawing moisture out. It can affect the way that things actually cook, especially if you’re looking for a crust with the steak or a nice type of sear. Your rule number two talks about keeping this in mind when it comes to moisture. Rule number two is control moisture like its currency. Water is the silent saboteur of flavor. Excess moisture prevents caramelization and this is like a big deal for me. So many cooks and even well-trained chefs don’t realize you just take a scallop that’s very moist by nature and you season it and then you throw it in a pan to try and get that nice sear on it. Yeah. You’re never going to get a sear. You’re just going to poach or steam that scallop. You’re never going to get color on it. You’re going to overcook it to death. Removing that moisture, taking that extra step to pat it dry. Oh my goodness, that’s a secret. You want that sear, that char, and you can only achieve that by removing the moisture. Rule #3: Layer with Intent, Not Excess Removing items when you’re cooking and editing, especially when you reference someone like Coco Chanel, is really important to achieve the final result that you want. And even though you talk about maximum flavor, that doesn’t always mean more is more. What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is layer with intent, not excess. More ingredients do not equal more flavor. Precision does. Intention does. Think in layers. Fat for richness, acid for lift, salt for amplification, heat for a little intrigue, and texture for memory. Just think of something simple like a burger or a hot dog, and sometimes people will put potato chips on it, and that crunch really makes a difference. Just having that sensory really makes for that unforgettable bite. The fat versus the acid, the salt versus the sweet — that balancing of flavors really does make an impact when you’re putting together any sort of either savory or sweet dish or just cooking for something that really is going to awaken the palate. Your rule number four talks about how comfort isn’t always the goal. Rule #4: Cook for Contrast, Not Comfort Oh no. What’s your fourth rule? Rule number four is cook for contrast, not comfort. The palate remembers tension. Crisp against tender, bright against deep, hot against cool. Oh my gosh, when you think hot against cool you just think of warm apple caramel tart and then cold ice cream. A perfectly cooked dish without contrast is forgettable. A dish that plays with opposition becomes addictive. Great cooking doesn’t soothe, it engages you. You put all this time into cooking, you’ve had this preparation, you’ve thought about the balance, you’ve controlled the moisture. Your fifth and final rule talks about pulling it all together and it’s where a lot of people, including myself, get really nervous right before you present what you’ve cooked to the people you love. What’s your rule number five? Rule #5: Finish Like It Matters Finish like it matters because you’re cooking for the people you love. Oftentimes, you’re pulling it out of the oven. You just, boom, goes on the table. It’s a race to the finish line. But the final 10% of a dish determines 90% of its impact. A squeeze of acid right at the end, a drizzle of olive oil, fresh herbs — I love that. Where to Find Chef Adrianne Well, if anyone wants to try your complete dishes at the restaurant or join any of your cooking classes on live streams or pick up your book, where can they go? How can they follow along with what you’re up to and what you’re doing in the world? You can follow me on socials at Chef Adrianne, and that’s the same handle for YouTube, for the livestream, for the channel, or you can pick up any of my cookbooks on Amazon or wherever books are sold. Amazing. Congratulations to everything. I can’t wait to swing to the restaurant next time I’m in Miami. Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was awesome, and congratulations on everything you’re doing. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe [https://fiverules.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].

Noah Galuten

Noah Galuten [https://www.instagram.com/galuten/?hl=en] has spent years cooking alongside some of the best chefs, pit masters, and grill masters in America, so when it came time to write Grill Time [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/781433/grill-time-by-noah-galuten/], he wanted to share everything he had learned. He joined the show to share his Five Rules for Better Grilling, covering everything from why gas grills deserve more respect to the flavor advantages of cooking with wood and charcoal. We also get into the surprising power of mayonnaise, why chasing perfect grill marks can be overrated, and the one tool that will instantly make you a more confident cook. Whether you’re feeding a crowd or just trying to get dinner on the table, these are practical rules you’ll actually use. Summer has officially arrived. The days are longer, the drinks are colder, and every meal suddenly feels like a good excuse to be outside. There’s something about cooking over fire that changes the pace of the day. Neighbors linger a little longer, friends show up a little earlier, and dinner becomes the event instead of the thing that happens before it. If you’ve been looking for a reason to dust off the grill, invite some people over, and make the most of the season, this conversation is the inspiration you need to get started. Photo by Kristin Teig Jacaranda’s recent opening in Los Angeles has had the culinary community abuzz with Daniel Patterson’s return to fine dining. Opened and owned with his wife, Sarah Lewitinn, this thirty-seat, tasting menu has been years in the making. Read my latest profile [https://www.finedininglovers.com/explore/articles/jacaranda-daniel-patterson-rebuilds-fine-dining-his-own-terms] for Fine Dining Lovers on them, their love story and their road to opening. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m joined by Noah Galuten, whose new cookbook, Grill Time, Why You Should Be Grilling for Better, Healthier, Easier, and More Delicious Meals, is out now wherever books are sold, to share his five rules for better grilling. We talk about how there’s no shame in the gas grill game. With that being said, nothing tastes better than smoke in food and how one secret ingredient is the key to better grilling. Summertime is here and if you’re looking to get outside and to do some cooking, there is no better conversation for some inspiration and some rules to get your grill game going. So let’s get into the rules. Why Grilling Is Different Noah, it’s so good to see you. Congratulations. Your new book has been out for a little less than a week. Grill time. Thanks for stopping by and making time for the show. Thank you for having me, man. This first week has been so great. Summertime is here. It’s time for grilling. What do you love so much about this season and cooking this way? There’s so many things I love about grilling and the great thing about living in Los Angeles is you can grill 12 months out of the year. I know. I try to be nice to the people who don’t have the weather that we have. That’s true. Grilling is just the way that I actually find myself cooking for my family the most often. It is easier, cleaner, faster, often healthier than you would do it on the stove. There’s stuff that I would never do on a stove in a million years that I will do on a grill a hundred times out of a hundred. To cook a piece of chicken, to put on a salad, who’s pan searing? No one. It’s always grilled chicken at a restaurant. Throw it on a gas grill in the back, charcoal grill. You’ve got something instantly. A lot of people get intimidated by grilling. It’s usually due to one bad experience because they’ve only tried it a handful of times. How do people get back on the horse after having a grilling mistake? It’s like anything. The second time is going to be so much easier. The barrier to entry is basically having a grill. And once you have one, do it a couple times, get better at it. Writing Grill Time Once you find that inspiration of what to cook and how to cook it, it just makes you want to get outside even more. With so much of this type of cooking under your belt, how did you select the stories and recipes you wanted to share? When a band has their first album, they spend their entire life creating it and then your second album is two years later and you’re trying to come up with a whole lifetime of stuff. This was this lucky stroke of mine because my first cookbook was so much of my family cooking growing up, my mom’s food, the food that I make for my family at home. And then I have this whole other side of grilling that I’ve been doing forever and learning from amazing mentors like Kevin Bloodsoe for Bloodsoe’s Barbecue and with Ari Colander for Seafood Stuff, Jeremy Fox for Vegetables. I got to lean all that information into the way that I cook and grill at home. So it just spilled out of me. It came together so quickly. There was so much food that I cook all the time on the grill that I’ve never gotten to write about. Grilling cookbooks were just different from regular at-home cookbooks. Grilling is the type of cooking practice that you can always get better at. You can always refine your approach. Rule #1: There Is No Shame in the Gas Grill Game Now I’ve been around a lot of chefs who swear on nothing but aged pecan wood or cherry wood or some other sort of refined— Those people don’t cook for their kids on a weeknight is my theory on that. I love cooking with wood and charcoal. I have an entire outdoor cooking show on Tastemade called Barbecue Smokeout I make with Kevin and Bloodso. It is an amazing way to cook and I love it. But with that being said, a great part of my life is getting dinner on the table and being able to throw— The Gas Grill is an incredible— A Gas Grill, there is no shame on it. And there’s no reason that just because you can make something more delicious with Smoke or Charcoal that will take longer time that you shouldn’t just do the easier option when it’s easier. And having limited time on a weeknight or when you’re just trying to make a quick lunch, gas is great. Rule #2: Nothing Tastes Better Than Grilling Over Wood and Charcoal But when you do have the time, maybe it’s a weekend, maybe it’s a holiday, your rule number two talks about this type of grilling. Rule number two, nothing tastes better than grilling over wood and charcoal. So I kind of break this book down into two categories, Sure Weeknight Grilling and Weekend Project Grilling. Yes, I have cooked so many slow smoked pork ribs in the thousands over my career at Bloodso’s and I’m very good at it. I’ve had it a million times, but now my favorite rack of ribs in the world— I call it smoke grill. They do it in the book where essentially you take a classic grill. I love these PK grills. It’s a really old company that’s been doing it forever. You essentially push all the charcoal to one side of the grill, put wood chunks on top, almost like you’re doing a reverse sear like on a two inch thick ribeye. Instead of— You Get A Smoky Crispy Edged Rib That’s Done In Half The Time Of A Slow Smoke. You Can’t Fake The Flavor Of Smoke. Rule #3: Getting Char on One Side Is More Important Than Getting Char Everywhere Rule Number Three is getting char on one side is more important than getting char. So this comes out especially with things that are quicker cooking like a burger patty, asparagus, zucchini. If you try to get char all over the entire thing, especially if you’re on a gas grill that’s not super firepower, doesn’t have a ton of BTUs, get that char and that coffee. Rule #4: Mayonnaise Is the Secret to Better Grilling There is a chef trick that I was taught years ago about how to add some more moisture and flavor and to give yourself a little bit of grace when you’re cooking on the grill, which I’m so happy because it showed up as rule number four. Here are the haters. They know what’s coming. Guys, it’s mayonnaise. Yep. Mayonnaise is the secret to better grilling. And all you weirdo mayonnaise people out there, you guys are worse than cilantro people because theirs is a genetic condition. You guys just can’t stop talking about how you don’t like mayonnaise. It’s not about tasting mayonnaise. It’s not about eating mayonnaise. It’s about the chemical properties of a perfectly emulsified fat that you can use it for so many things on the grill. The big one to me, and I learned this from my buddy Ari Colander, who’s an incredible chef, painting the thinnest veil of mayonnaise on a piece of fish or a whole fish allows it to become virtually nonstick on the grill. It also allows you to get seasonings to adhere perfectly to it and it makes it brown better. I can cook perfect crispy skin salmon on the grill with just one flip, a little bit of mayonnaise, some salt and pepper and it’s amazing. Anything that you can do to add extra flavor and give yourself some breathing room on the grill is a rule well used. Rule #5: Use a Meat Thermometer Your fifth and final rule deals directly with understanding when to take your meat off the grill. What’s your rule number five? Use a meat thermometer. What are we talking about here, guys? It’s the easiest game changer. There’s this masculine thing of, no, I don’t need it, I know meat, I can touch the palm of my hand, no worries. You know the exact internal temp of a pre-marinated Trader Joe’s pork? And that’s fine. This is a sub-rule to this rule. Cooking it properly. Closing Noah, congratulations on everything. If they want to pick up a copy of Grill Time or come see you on your incredible book tour that has a lot of delicious food and great guests, where can they go to learn more? You can go to my website for all the tour dates. I have a 21-city tour with some of the best chefs and restaurants in the country. People like Chris Bianco, Frank Piniello, Ann Kim, Aaron Franklin, Kevin Blood. So it is a crazy, crazy, crazy lineup. I’m so blown away by the kindness of the people in our industry. Check that out on my website. Also, anywhere books are sold. The book already came out. So if you’re on Amazon, it’s probably 75% off the week after it came out. Good luck out on the road and I hope to be eating food and seeing you behind a grill very soon. Let’s go grill some meat and have some beers. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe [https://fiverules.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy [https://art19.com/privacy] and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info [https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info].