We Need to Stop Panicking About AI (with Andrew McAfee and Nils Gilman)

We Need to Stop Panicking About AI (with Andrew McAfee and Nils Gilman)

Every week brings a new warning about AI. It will take our jobs, drain our reservoirs, cook the planet. The forecasts come from serious people. They also rhyme with forecasts we've heard before, about every powerful new technology of the last century. In this episode, MIT economist Andrew McAfee argues that the panic is racing ahead of the reality. In 2013, he famously predicted a jobs crisis from machine learning and watched the unemployment rate hit historic lows instead. Humanity’s global footprint is getting lighter each year; we are doing more with less land, less water, less raw material. He's not dismissing the risks. He's asking us to look at the track record before we panic. Subscribe to the Berggruen Institute on YouTube to be the first to listen to new Futurology episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst [https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst] Catch up on the Futurology conversation with full episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c]  Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921] Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298 [https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298] Mentioned in this Episode: The Second Machine Age [https://wwnorton.com/books/the-second-machine-age/] — Erik Brynjolfsson and Andrew McAfee (Book, 2014) What Will Future Jobs Look Like? [https://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_mcafee_what_will_future_jobs_look_like] — Andrew McAfee (TED Talk, 2013) More from Less [https://www.andrewmcafee.org/books/more-from-less] — Andrew McAfee (Book, 2019) The Return of Nature: How Technology Liberates the Environment [https://thebreakthrough.org/journal/issue-5/the-return-of-nature] — Jesse Ausubel (Essay, 2015) The Population Bomb [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb] — Paul Ehrlich (Book, 1968) The Limits to Growth [https://www.clubofrome.org/publication/the-limits-to-growth/] — Donella Meadows, Dennis Meadows, Jørgen Randers, and William Behrens III (Book, 1972) Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman's OpenAI [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/743569/empire-of-ai-by-karen-hao/] — Karen Hao (Book, 2025) How to Future-Proof Your Career in the Age of AI [https://www.noemamag.com/why-a-liberal-arts-education-will-soon-be-more-valuable-than-ever/] — Nils Gilman (Noema, 2026) Where to find Andrew McAfee: andrewmcafee.org [https://www.andrewmcafee.org/] The Geek Way on Substack [https://geekway.substack.com/] Workhelix [https://www.workhelix.com/] LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/amcafee] MIT Initiative on the Digital Economy [https://ide.mit.edu/] Show ideas and feedback? Email: futurology@berggruen.org Learn more about the Berggruen Institute  https://www.berggruen.org [https://www.berggruen.org/] Follow Futurology! Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/futurologypod/]:   / futurologypod Twitter/X [https://x.com/FuturologyPod]:   / futurologypod Tiktok [https://www.tiktok.com/@futurologypod?utm_campaign=social_link_list&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=later-linkinbio]:   / futurologypod Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/BerggruenInst/]:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/berggrueninst/]:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky [https://bsky.app/profile/futurologypod.bsky.social]:   / futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli & Kyle Scott Wilson Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland for the Berggruen Institute in Los Angeles, California.

What Exactly is Futurology? (with Nils Gilman & Grant Slater)

When it comes to the future, ideas matter. From artists and architects, politicians and prognosticators, the concepts guiding what’s next don’t always mix well with what’s right in front of us. This creates "future shock," the disorienting feeling of change happening faster than we can metabolize it. Today, technologists rip storylines from sci-fi into systems of command and control that only they govern. But they don't hold a monopoly on our future. In this episode, Nils Gilman, historian, futurist, and Editor-in-Chief of Berggruen Press, walks us through the long arc of humanity's grappling with what comes next and describes a future-industrial complex that emerged from chaos in the 20th century. In moments of civilizational crisis, old systems crack under the pressure of accelerating change and make space for new ways of imagining what's possible. That's what Futurology is for. Subscribe to the Berggruen Institute on YouTube to be the first to listen to new Futurology episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst [https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst] Catch up on the Futurology conversation with full episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c]  Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921] Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298 [https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298] Mentioned in this Episode: Mandarins of the Future: Modernization Theory in Cold War America [https://www.amazon.com/Mandarins-Future-Modernization-American-Intellectual/dp/0801886333] — Nils Gilman (Book, 2004) "Teaching the Future" [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00221546.1945.11774322] — Osip Flechtheim (Essay, 1945) Future Shock [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock] — Alvin Toffler (Book, 1970) Amusing Ourselves to Death [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death] — Neil Postman (Book, 1985) Thinking About the Unthinkable [https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-about-Unthinkable-1980s-Herman/dp/067160449X] — Herman Kahn (Book, 1962) Futuredays: A Nineteenth Century Vision of the Year 2000 [https://www.amazon.com/Futuredays-Nineteenth-century-Vision-Year-2000/dp/0863691609] — Jean Marc Cote (Book, 1988) The Official Future Is Dead! Long Live the Official Future! [https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/10/30/official-future-dead-long-live-official-future/] — Nils Gilman (Essay, 2017) Silicon Valley's Organic Intellectuals [https://nilsgilman.substack.com/p/silicon-valleys-organic-intellectuals] — Nils Gilman (Essay, Substack) The Old Regime and the Revolution [https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/tocqueville-the-old-regime-and-the-revolution-1856] — Alexis de Tocqueville (Book, 1856) Where to find Nils Gilman: Substack: https://nilsgilman.substack.com [https://nilsgilman.substack.com/] Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/nilsgilman.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/nilsgilman.bsky.social] Berggruen Institute: https://berggruen.org/people/nils-gilman [https://www.berggruen.org/] Noema Magazine: https://www.noemamag.com/author/nils-gilman/ [https://www.noemamag.com/author/nils-gilman/] Show ideas and feedback? Email: futurology@berggruen.org Learn more about the Berggruen Institute  https://www.berggruen.org [https://www.berggruen.org/] Follow Futurology! Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/futurologypod/]:   / futurologypod Twitter/X [https://x.com/FuturologyPod]:   / futurologypod Tiktok [https://www.tiktok.com/@futurologypod?utm_campaign=social_link_list&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=later-linkinbio]:   / futurologypod Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/BerggruenInst/]:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/berggrueninst/]:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky [https://bsky.app/profile/futurologypod.bsky.social]:   / futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli & Kyle Scott Wilson Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland for the Berggruen Institute in Los Angeles, California.

The Democratization of Violence (with Fareed Zakaria and Nathan Gardels)

The state used to hold a monopoly on violence. That world is ending. A $15,000 drone can hold the Strait of Hormuz hostage. Pirates can afford one. So can drug smugglers. Meanwhile, the alliances that defined the last eighty years are fracturing, and the rules governing war, trade, and power are being rewritten simultaneously. In this episode, Fareed Zakaria – host of CNN’s GPS – takes stock. He argues Trump's pressure campaign on Iran will likely leave the regime more legitimized than before, and that the United States is dismantling the one coalition that could effectively rival China. Hovering over all of this, starting on the battlefield in Ukraine, the combination of cheap drones and AI is pushing the human being out of the loop. Subscribe to the Berggruen Institute on YouTube to be the first to listen to new Futurology episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst [https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst] Catch up on the Futurology conversation with full episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c]  Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921] Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298 [https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298] Mentioned in this Episode: The Post-American World [https://www.amazon.com/Post-American-World-Release-2-0/dp/0393340384] — Fareed Zakaria (Book, 2008) The Age of Revolutions [https://www.amazon.com/Age-Revolutions-Progress-Backlash-Present/dp/0393239233] — Fareed Zakaria (Book, 2024) The Rise of the Rest [https://fareedzakaria.com/columns/2008/05/12/the-rise-of-the-rest]– Fareed Zakaria (Article, 2008) Show ideas and feedback? Email: futurology@berggruen.org Learn more about the Berggruen Institute  https://www.berggruen.org [https://www.berggruen.org/] Follow Futurology! Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/futurologypod/]:   / futurologypod Twitter/X [https://x.com/FuturologyPod]:   / futurologypod Tiktok [https://www.tiktok.com/@futurologypod?utm_campaign=social_link_list&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=later-linkinbio]:   / futurologypod Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/BerggruenInst/]:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/berggrueninst/]:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky [https://bsky.app/profile/futurologypod.bsky.social]:   / futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli & Kyle Scott Wilson Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland for the Berggruen Institute in Los Angeles, California. Where to find Fareed Zakaria: Instagram: instagram.com/fareedzakaria [https://www.instagram.com/fareedzakaria/]  Facebook: facebook.com/fareedzakaria [https://www.facebook.com/fareedzakaria/]  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/fareed-zakaria-7098ba24b [https://www.linkedin.com/in/fareed-zakaria-7098ba24b] Personal Website: fareedzakaria.com [https://fareedzakaria.com/]

We Were Promised a World Without Work… (with Nick Srnicek and Nils Gilman)

We’re being told that automation can free us. Machines will do the drudge work, and we will reclaim our time. But that’s not how things are going. Instead, artificial intelligence has concentrated power in the hands of the companies that own the infrastructure and outrun nation-states’ ability to regulate it. In this episode of Futurology, author and scholar Nick Srnicek revisits the provocative idea he helped popularize after the 2008 financial crisis: that the left should fight for technology to reduce work and expand freedom, rather than simply resisting it. Srnicek describes his new book, Silicon Empires, which traces the shift from ephemeral platforms to hard infrastructure in Silicon Valley. Subscribe to the Berggruen Institute on YouTube to be the first to listen to new Futurology episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst [https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst] Catch up on the Futurology conversation with full episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c]  Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921] Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298 [https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298] Mentioned in this Episode: #ACCELERATE: Manifesto for an Accelerationist Politics [https://www.urbanomic.com/chapter/accelerate-alex-williams-and-nick-srnicek-accelerate/]— Alex Williams and Nick Srnicek (Manifesto/Essay, 2013)  Inventing the Future: Postcapitalism and a World Without Work [https://openaccess.city.ac.uk/id/eprint/16935/] — Nick Srnicek and Alex Williams (Book, 2015)  T.A.Z.: The Temporary Autonomous Zone, Ontological Anarchy, Poetic Terrorism [https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/hakim-bey-t-a-z-the-temporary-autonomous-zone-ontological-anarchy-poetic-terrorism] — Hakim Bey (Book, 1991)  After Work: A History of the Home and the Fight for Free Time [https://www.versobooks.com/products/496-after-work] — Helen Hester and Nick Srnicek (Book, 2023)  Platform Capitalism [https://www.politybooks.com/bookdetail?book_slug=platform-capitalism--9781509504862] — Nick Srnicek (Book, 2016)  Silicon Empires: The Fight for the Future of AI [https://www.politybooks.com/bookdetail?book_slug=silicon-empires-the-fight-for-the-future-of-ai--9781509550487]— Nick Srnicek (Book, 2026)  This Life: Secular Faith and Spiritual Freedom [https://www.amazon.com/This-Life-Secular-Spiritual-Freedom/dp/1101870400] — Martin Hägglund (Book, 2019) Where to find Nick Srnicek:  X: @nsrnicek [https://x.com/nsrnicek] BlueSky: @nsrnicek.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/nsrnicek.bsky.social]  University Profile: Dr. Nick Srnicek | King's College London [https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/nick-srnicek]  Substack (Silicon Empires): siliconempires.substack.com [https://siliconempires.substack.com/] Show ideas and feedback? Email: futurology@berggruen.org Learn more about the Berggruen Institute  https://www.berggruen.org [https://www.berggruen.org/] Follow Futurology! Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/futurologypod/]:   / futurologypod Twitter/X [https://x.com/FuturologyPod]:   / futurologypod Tiktok [https://www.tiktok.com/@futurologypod?utm_campaign=social_link_list&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=later-linkinbio]:   / futurologypod Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/BerggruenInst/]:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/berggrueninst/]:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky [https://bsky.app/profile/futurologypod.bsky.social]:   / futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli & Kyle Scott Wilson Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland for the Berggruen Institute in Los Angeles, California.

Against the Tyranny of Certainty (with Elif Shafak and Nils Gilman)

We are living through an age of acceleration. The hardest part is not necessarily the pace of change, but the societal whiplash it creates. One decade we are promised a frictionless future. The next we are told everything is collapsing. The antidote is not certainty, but the discipline of holding opposites together, especially in the realms of identity, faith, and doubt. In this episode, Turkish novelist Elif Shafak explains why fiction may be our best defense against dogma, propaganda, and collective amnesia. Novels train us to live with complexity and to feel our way into someone else’s life. Shafak argues that this kind of moral imagination is not a luxury. Without it, the danger ahead is not fear, but numbness. Subscribe to the Berggruen Institute on YouTube to be the first to listen to new Futurology episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst [https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst] Catch up on the Futurology conversation with full episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c]  Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921] Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298 [https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298] Mentioned in this Episode: The Bastard of Istanbul [https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/56167/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak/9780241972908?utm_source=chatgpt.com] — Elif Shafak (novel, 2006) The Gaze [https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/178498/the-gaze-by-shafak-elif/9780241201916] — Elif Shafak (novel) 10 Minutes 38 Seconds in This Strange World [https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/303783/10-minutes-38-seconds-in-this-strange-world-by-shafak-elif/9780241979464?utm_source=chatgpt.com] — Elif Shafak (novel, 2019) The Island of Missing Trees [https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/316722/the-island-of-missing-trees-by-shafak-elif/9780241988725?utm_source=chatgpt.com] — Elif Shafak (novel, 2021) There Are Rivers in the Sky [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/743978/there-are-rivers-in-the-sky-by-elif-shafak/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] — Elif Shafak (novel, 2024) What Is It Like to Be a Bat? [https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil201/Nagel.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com] — Thomas Nagel (essay, 1974) Angelus Novus [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus_Novus?utm_source=chatgpt.com] — Paul Klee (artwork, 1920) Where to find Elif Shafak: Instagram: @shafakelif [https://www.instagram.com/shafakelif/] Tiktok: @sayyourword [https://www.tiktok.com/@elifshafak_] X: @Elif_Safak [http://x.com/Elif_Safak] Show ideas and feedback? Email: futurology@berggruen.org Learn more about the Berggruen Institute  https://www.berggruen.org [https://www.berggruen.org/] Follow Futurology! Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/futurologypod/]:   / futurologypod Twitter/X [https://x.com/FuturologyPod]:   / futurologypod Tiktok [https://www.tiktok.com/@futurologypod?utm_campaign=social_link_list&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=later-linkinbio]:   / futurologypod Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/BerggruenInst/]:   / berggrueninst   LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/berggrueninst/]:   / berggrueninst   Bluesky [https://bsky.app/profile/futurologypod.bsky.social]:   / futurologypod Credits  Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli & Kyle Scott Wilson Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland for the Berggruen Institute in Los Angeles, California.