Hard Fork

This week we go even deeper on DeepSeek. ChinaTalk's Jordan Schneider joins us to explain the Chinese A.I. industry and to break down the reaction inside of China to DeepSeek’s sudden success. Then … hello, Operator! We put OpenAI’s new agent software to the test. And finally, all aboard for another ride on the Hot Mess Express!   Guest: * Jordan Schneider [https://www.chinatalk.media/], founder and editor in chief of ChinaTalk   Additional Reading: * Why DeepSeek Could Change What Silicon Valley Believes About A.I. [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/28/technology/china-deepseek-ai-silicon-valley.html] * OpenAI launches its agent [https://www.platformer.news/openai-operator-ai-agent-hands-on/] * Fable, a Book App, Makes Changes After Offensive A.I. Messages [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/03/us/fable-ai-books-racism.html] * Amazon Pauses Drone Deliveries After Aircraft Crashed in Rain [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-17/amazon-pauses-drone-deliveries-after-aircraft-crashed-in-rain]   Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

A Chinese firm called DeepSeek managed to upend global markets at the start of the week, to drag down chipmaker Nvidia — and to surge to No. 1 in the iPhone app store, all in basically no time at all. Today, in this bonus episode, we talk through the news behind the freakout. How is a new A.I. model from one Chinese A.I. company making such a big splash? And what does it mean for the U.S. artificial intelligence industry?   We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com [hardfork@nytimes.com]. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hardfork] and TikTok. [https://www.tiktok.com/@hardfork] . Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

This week, TikTok died, came back to life — and now exists in a kind of limbo state. We break down what that may signal for how tech does business with the new Trump administration. Then we pump up the fun with memecoins and explore how the Trump family is cashing in. And finally, MSNBC’s Chris Hayes joins us to discuss his new book about attention.   Guest: * Chris Hayes [https://sirenscallbook.com/],  Host of MSNBC's "All In With Chris Hayes" and author of “The Sirens’ Call”   Additional Reading: * TikTok Comes Back From the Dead [https://www.platformer.news/tiktok-restored-immortal-app/] * Trump’s Cryptocurrency Surges to Become One of the World’s Most Valuable [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/19/us/politics/trump-cryptocurrency-surges.html] * Chris Hayes: I Want Your Attention. I Need Your Attention. Here Is How I Mastered My Own. [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/03/opinion/chris-hayes-msnbc-attention.html] * The 100 Best Books of the 21st Century [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/books/best-books-21st-century.html]   We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com [hardfork@nytimes.com]. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hardfork] and TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@hardfork]. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The deadline for TikTok to sell or to face a ban is fast approaching. We discuss how Supreme Court justices — who opted on Friday to uphold the law — reacted to arguments in the case, whether the Chinese government might allow Elon Musk to buy the app, and why self-proclaimed TikTok refugees are rushing to a different Chinese app, called RedNote. Then, we talk with an A.I. industry insider about what we actually know about how bad artificial intelligence is for the environment. And finally, after Mark Zuckerberg’s recent appearance on Joe Rogan’s podcast, Casey offers Kevin some ideas for how to bring more “masculine energy” to Meta.   Guest:  * Sasha Luccioni [https://www.sashaluccioni.com/], A.I and climate lead at Hugging Face.   Additional Reading:  * Supreme Court Backs Law Requiring TikTok to Be Sold or Banned [https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/01/17/us/tiktok-ban-supreme-court] * ‘Red Note,’ a Chinese App, Is Dominating Downloads, Thanks to TikTok Users [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/14/business/tiktok-rednote-xiaohongshu-app.html] * China Weighs Sale of TikTok US to Musk as a Possible Option [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-14/china-discusses-sale-of-tiktok-us-to-musk-as-one-possible-option] * Matter of Opinion Podcast: How Democrats Drove Silicon Valley Into Trump’s Arms [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/opinion/marc-andreessen-trump-silicon-valley.html]   We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com [hardfork@nytimes.com]. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hardfork] and TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@hardfork]. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

This week, Meta announced a series of content moderation changes that will transform the way the social media company’s platforms deal with misinformation and hate speech. We break down what these changes will mean for users and why the company seems to be caving to the right’s arguments on censorship. Then, we’ll explain why 2025 is already shaping up to be a huge year in A.I. — with models like OpenAI’s o3, Google’s Gemini 2.0 and DeepSeek, from China, stirring discussion that superintelligence is near. And finally, we play a round of HatGPT.   Additional Reading: * Meta Says It Will End Its Fact-Checking Program on Social Media Posts [https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/01/07/business/meta-fact-checking] * OpenAI Unveils New A.I. That Can ‘Reason’ Through Math and Science Problems [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/20/technology/openai-new-ai-math-science.html] * Netflix’s WWE investment and the Future of Live Events on the Platform [https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6035603/2025/01/05/netflix-wwe-raw-interview/] * MegaLag’s Video Investigation Into Honey [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc4yL3YTwWk] * Los Angeles Man Is Trapped in Circling Waymo on Way to Airport: ‘Is Somebody Playing a Joke?’ [https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-05/los-angeles-man-trapped-in-circling-waymo-says-he-missed-his-flight-home]   We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com [hardfork@nytimes.com]. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/hardfork] and TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@hardfork]. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.