Revitalize My Church

Ep. 044 | When the Church Must Die in Order to Live

Can a dying church really come back to life? Pastor Larry Davis says yes, but not the way most revitalization books tell you. In this episode of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, Bart Blair sits down with Larry Davis, author of "Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love" and Associational Missionary for the Eastern Baptist Association. Larry has personally led three church revitalizations and has assisted or consulted with more than 110 churches. His perspective on revitalization is unlike anything most pastors have read or heard. Most books on church revitalization assume every church should live. Larry challenges that assumption directly. Drawing from Scripture, the Kubler-Ross stages of grief, and more than two decades of hands-on revitalization work, Larry makes the case that a congregation cannot embrace something new until it has genuinely grieved what was. That single principle changes everything about how a pastor should approach a struggling church. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE Why the local church has a natural life cycle, and what Scripture says about it How the five stages of grief (denial, bargaining, anger, depression, and acceptance) show up in a declining congregation Why trying to lead change before a church is ready almost always backfires How Larry navigated fierce resistance at Grace Seaford Church, including angry members at Wednesday night suppers What the "meeting before the meeting" is and why it is never optional How cascading communication works and why skipping the middle ring is one of the costliest mistakes in revitalization What resurrection actually looks like for a dying church, and why it is different for every congregation How to use a simple EKG framework to honestly assess the health of your church Why reaching out for help early dramatically increases a church's chances of genuine renewal THE FIVE STAGES OF GRIEF IN A LOCAL CHURCH Denial: The church refuses to admit there is a problem. Bargaining: The church tries to fix itself without actually changing. New sign letters. A younger pastor. A new program. Anger: Blame gets directed at the pastor, the leadership, or the community around the church. Depression: The congregation begins to realize the decline is real. Larry explains the important difference between secondary depression and preparatory depression. Acceptance: The congregation finally becomes open to whatever God wants to do next. This is the threshold of resurrection. ABOUT LARRY DAVIS Larry Davis spent nine years as an aerospace engineer before answering the call to full-time ministry in 2003. Over 26 years of vocational ministry, he has personally led three church revitalizations, co-planted Grace Mardela Church, and has assisted or consulted with more than 110 churches. He currently serves as Senior Pastor of Grace Seaford Church in Seaford, Delaware, and as Associational Missionary for the Eastern Baptist Association. His book "Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love" is available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Website: https://www.pastorlarrydavis.com Speaking and consulting inquiries: pastor@graceseaford.org BOOKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love by Larry Davis: https://www.amazon.com/Grieving-Loss-Church-You-Love/dp/1597557811 Autopsy of a Deceased Church by Thom Rainer Transforming the Rural Church in America by Shannon O'Dell Our Iceberg Is Melting by John Kotter On Death and Dying by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross ABOUT REVITALIZE MY CHURCH The Revitalize My Church Podcast is hosted by Bart Blair, Director of Church Revitalization at Assist Church Expansion. New episodes release on the 1st and 15th of every month. The podcast exists to help pastors of smaller and struggling churches navigate revitalization with practical, biblically grounded guidance. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Website: https://revitalizemy.church Full show notes for this episode:

Ep. 043 | 6 Keys to Handling Resistance in a Church Revitalization - Part One

Resistance is one of the most common and discouraging challenges a pastor faces when leading a church through revitalization. You cast the vision, you lay out the plan, and then someone pushes back. Or a group pushes back. And suddenly it feels like the people you are trying to help are the very ones standing in your way. In this episode of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant dig into what resistance actually is, why it is completely normal, and how to respond to it in a way that keeps the temperature in your church manageable. This is Part 1 of a two-part series on handling resistance in church revitalization, covering the first two of six practical keys. If you missed the previous two episodes on managing conflict in a church revitalization, go back and listen to Episodes 39 and 41 first. Resistance and conflict are related, but they are not the same thing, and understanding the difference will change how you respond to both. RESISTANCE IS NOT A SIGN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG If you are leading your church through meaningful change and not experiencing any resistance, you are probably not changing anything that really matters. Resistance is the natural result of inertia. People who have worshiped, served, and sacrificed in a church for 20, 30, or 40 years have deep roots. Even people who say they want change often do not fully realize what they are agreeing to until the process is underway. Resistance in a revitalizing church often comes from a few different places. Some people fear loss. They are not necessarily against the change itself, they are grieving what they might have to give up. Others are carrying the wounds of past attempts that did not work out. They tried things before, it did not go the way they hoped, and now their guard is up because they do not want to feel that sense of failure again. Others simply do not trust the leader enough yet to take a big step in a new direction. And some feel, even unintentionally, that the push for change is a criticism of everything they have built and sacrificed for over the years. All of that is worth understanding before you decide how to respond. WHAT MOSES CAN TEACH PASTORS ABOUT LEADING THROUGH RESISTANCE Moses led a people who had cried out to God for deliverance for generations, received it through miraculous signs and wonders, crossed the Red Sea, and then spent most of the journey through the wilderness complaining. They wanted the promised land immediately. What they got was a long, hard desert walk. Sound familiar? A few things stand out from Moses as a model for pastors navigating resistance. The people said yes to the journey without fully understanding what they were signing up for. Moses did not always keep his cool, but he remained committed to the mission. He interceded for the people even when they deserved judgment, because they were not his adversaries, they were his people. And Moses did not have the full plan from day one. God revealed it over time, and Moses had to adjust along the way. Revitalization is not that different. KEY 1 - DO NOT PERSONALIZE IT, CONTEXTUALIZE IT The first key to navigating resistance is refusing to take it personally. When a pastor becomes anxious or defensive in response to pushback, that anxiety spreads through the congregation and raises the temperature. Your defensiveness will escalate the situation faster than almost anything else. Proverbs 19:11 says that wisdom yields patience and that it is to one's glory to overlook an offense. That is not weakness. That is strategic leadership. Most resistance is not really about you. It is about the concept of change, the fear of loss, or the memories tied to something you are asking people to let go of. At the same time, pastors need to guard against making it feel personal to the people resisting. When change is communicated without empathy, without honoring what came before, and without acknowledging the years of sacrifice people have invested, it can land as an insult even when that was never the intent. Effective revitalization leaders learn to hold both of those things at the same time. KEY 2 - LISTEN BEFORE YOU LEAD James 1 says to be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. That is not just good advice for conflict. It is a practical strategy for managing resistance in a change process. Listening to someone is not the same as agreeing with them. But creating space for people to voice concerns, ask questions, and process what is being proposed will dramatically reduce the heat around resistance. Bart and Nathan walk through a layered communication approach: bring change concepts to top-level leaders first, not as finalized decisions but as ideas to interact with. Give people time to process. Offer one-on-one conversations so individuals are not hearing major changes for the first time in a group setting. And get good at asking better questions, because the root of someone's resistance is often something very different from what it looks like on the surface. One story from the episode illustrates this perfectly. A pastor faced pushback from a longtime member when the church decided to replace the pews with chairs. When the pastor took the time to really listen, he discovered the real concern had nothing to do with seating. Many of the pews had been purchased and dedicated in the names of people the member loved, and he was afraid they would end up in the trash. The pastor found a church willing to buy them, the pews went to a congregation where they would still be used, and the member felt heard and cared for. That outcome was only possible because the pastor chose to listen before he pushed forward. WHAT'S COMING IN PART 2 Bart and Nathan will be back with four more practical keys for handling resistance in church revitalization. Make sure you are subscribed so you do not miss the next episode. New episodes of the Revitalize My Church Podcast release on the 1st and 15th of every month. Subscribe on your favorite podcast app or hit Subscribe and ring the bell here on YouTube to get notified when new episodes go live. Visit us at RevitalizeMyChurch.com for show notes, resources, and more.

Ep. 042 | Stop Chasing Programs. Start Reaching People

EPISODE 42: SHOW NOTES TLDR: KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. The Oikos Principle works everywhere: 95% of people come to faith through relationships with the 8-15 people in their "front row" - their coworkers, neighbors, close friends, and family members who watch how they live. 2. Church obesity kills mission focus: Most churches are programmatically obese, offering so many "good things" that the Great Commission gets crowded out. The average church attender has only 5 hours per week to give. 3. Outreach never happens naturally: Without intentionality, nurture always wins over evangelism. Churches must deliberately elevate the Great Commission first and often, or it will never take root. 4. Start with a simple strategy: Make a list of your 8-15 people, pray daily, invest in relationships intentionally, then invite them into environments where faith conversations happen naturally. EPISODE SUMMARY Are you struggling to keep your church focused on reaching lost people? Do you feel like your congregation is more interested in adding new ministries than making new disciples? You're not alone. In this episode of Revitalize My Church, Bart sits down with Tom Mercer, author of 8 to 15: The World Is Smaller Than You Think [https://www.amazon.com/World-Smaller-Than-You-Think/dp/0984036407] and pastor of High Desert Church for 38 years, to discuss why most churches have lost focus on the only thing Jesus commanded us to do between His advents - make disciples. WHY SMALL CHURCHES STRUGGLE WITH MISSION FOCUS Tom shares candidly about the challenge every pastor faces: "It's not that local churches don't do good things, but we do so many good things that the only great thing Jesus asked of us doesn't have any room to flourish." This insight is particularly crucial for small church pastors who are constantly pressured to add more programs, more ministries, and more activities to compete with larger churches in their community. WHAT IS THE OIKOS PRINCIPLE AND HOW DOES IT WORK IN CHURCH REVITALIZATION? The word "oikos" is a Greek term meaning "house" or "household" that appears throughout the New Testament. But Tom explains it means more than just a physical dwelling - it describes your relational world. The Oikos principle teaches that every person has 8-15 people in the "front row seats" of their life - people who: * Watch how you live * Listen to what you say * Include coworkers, neighbors, close friends, classmates, and family members * Are supernaturally and strategically placed in your life by God The data is undeniable: Tom has asked hundreds of thousands of Christians across five continents, multiple denominations, and diverse cultures one question: "Was the primary reason you gave your heart to Christ because of someone in your oikos?" The answer? Virtually every hand in the room goes up, every time. HOW TO IMPLEMENT THE 8 TO 15 STRATEGY IN YOUR CHURCH Tom shares the practical five-step strategy High Desert Church used to keep thousands of people focused on the Great Commission: STEP 1: MAKE A LIST Help your congregation identify by name the 8-15 people in their front row. "It's only a dream until you write it down, then it becomes a goal," Tom explains, quoting NFL Hall of Famer Emmett Smith. STEP 2: PRAY DAILY Encourage consistent prayer for these specific people by name. Most believers never take this step. STEP 3: INVEST IN RELATIONSHIPS Be intentional about spending time with and serving these people. This is where most invitation strategies fail - people won't invite those they haven't invested in. STEP 4: EXTEND INVITATIONS Create environments where faith conversations can happen naturally - church services, dinner at home, coffee shops, or small group gatherings. STEP 5: MINIMIZE DISTRACTIONS This is the controversial part: remove programs and activities that don't directly support your congregation's mission to their 8-15. WHY CHURCH PROGRAMS ARE KILLING YOUR EVANGELISM EFFORTS One of the most convicting moments in this conversation comes when Tom shares High Desert Church's "five-hour strategy." After surveying their congregation, they discovered people could only give five hours per week to church activities. So they asked: "What do we do with only five hours?" Their answer: * 90 minutes: A meaningful weekend worship service * 2 hours: Small groups for conversation and community * 90 minutes: Opportunities to express spiritual gifts at church or in the community That's it. Everything else was eliminated or offered only as short-term seminars. The result? A church of 120 grew to thousands across four campuses over 38 years, with a laser focus on equipping every member to reach their oikos. HOW TO STOP NURTURE FROM WINNING OVER OUTREACH IN YOUR CHURCH Tom references his friend Dave Browning's insight: "Without intentionality, nurture always wins." This explains why 76% of evangelical church-attending Christians can't even articulate what the Great Commission is (according to 2024 Barna research). Churches teach programs, not mission. The solution? Elevate outreach first and foremost without compromising discipleship. Tom shares a controversial practice: "When someone comes to faith, most pastors say, 'You need to get in a Bible study.' My advice would be to never, ever, ever do that." Instead, paint the target first - help new believers understand their mission is to reach their 8-15 people. Then discipleship has context and purpose. WHY THE GREAT COMMISSION SHOULD BE CALLED THE GREAT COMMANDMENT Bart makes a crucial point in this conversation: "We've labeled it the Great Commission, and commission sounds too much like suggestion. It should be another Great Commandment." Jesus didn't say, "Here's a great idea if you have time." He said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore GO" (Matthew 28:18-19). This is a directive from the Commander-in-Chief, not a suggestion from a consultant. PRACTICAL FIRST STEPS FOR PASTORS WHO WANT TO IMPLEMENT OIKOS PRINCIPLES If you're ready to refocus your church on the Great Commission using the oikos principle, Tom recommends: 1. Gather your decision-makers - staff team and key volunteers 2. Read together - Either 8 to 15 or Tom's follow-up book Not My Church (written specifically for pastors) 3. Have honest conversations - People in ministry are smarter than they think; let them wrestle with how to apply this in your specific context 4. Reach out for help - Tom offers free Zoom consultations with pastors at OikosMovement.com WHY THIS STRATEGY WORKS FOR SMALL CHURCHES WITH LIMITED RESOURCES This approach is perfect for small church revitalization because: * It doesn't require a big budget - You're empowering relationships, not funding programs * It doesn't require more staff - Every member becomes a missionary to their oikos * It actually simplifies ministry - You can cut programs that distract from the mission * It's scalable - Whether you have 20 people or 2,000, everyone has 8-15 people in their front row As Tom reminds us: "The average church is led by averagely gifted leaders." But the oikos principle doesn't require exceptional gifts - just faithfulness to focus on what Jesus actually asked us to do. HOW TO MEASURE KINGDOM GROWTH VS. TRANSFER GROWTH One of the most refreshing aspects of Tom's perspective is his view on measuring growth: "It's above my pay grade to cause growth, so it's kind of silly for me to take credit for it by measuring it." Instead, Tom focuses on faithfulness to the mission, not numerical outcomes. Bart reinforces this with the concept of lead measures vs. lag measures: * Lead measures - Things you can control (teaching the oikos principle, equipping people for relationships, removing program distractions) * Lag measures - Things you can't control (attendance numbers, baptisms, conversions) Focus on leading your people to engage their oikos faithfully. Let God handle the growth. WHAT TO DO WHEN PEOPLE ASK FOR MORE PROGRAMS AND MINISTRIES Every small church pastor faces this pressure: "We need a women's ministry. We need more youth programs. We need this and that ministry." Tom's response? Ask "Why?" "If this is something Jesus asked of us, then of course we're obligated to pursue it. But there are so many things that are so distracting." Before adding any program, ask: Does this help our people reach their 8-15, or does it distract from that mission? THE SOCIOLOGICAL PROBLEM, NOT JUST THEOLOGICAL Bart shares a crucial insight: Most Americans believe people who resist the gospel have theological problems. In reality, their resistance is mostly sociological. People resist God, scripture, and the gospel primarily because their entire oikos - the 8-15 people in their front row - also resist these things. The solution? Change their sociological circle. Surround them with people who love Jesus, follow scripture, and live out the gospel. Their eyes open to new possibilities when their community changes. This is why the oikos principle is so powerful - you're not just sharing information, you're inviting people into a new community. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE * Book: 8 to 15: The World Is Smaller Than You Think [https://www.amazon.com/World-Smaller-Than-You-Think/dp/0984036407] by Tom Mercer * Book: Not My Church [https://www.amazon.com/Not-My-Church-Tom-Mercer/dp/0984036458] by Tom Mercer (specifically for pastors) * Website: OikosMovement.com [https://www.oikosmovement.com/] - Free resources and consultation opportunities * Contact: Tom@OikosMovement.com [Tom@OikosMovement.com] CONNECT WITH TOM MERCER Tom Mercer served as lead pastor of High Desert Church in Southern California for 38 years, growing the church from 120 attenders to thousands across four campuses. He now leads The Oikos Movement, a nonprofit dedicated to equipping every believer in every nation to reach their oikos with the gospel. Tom regularly consults with pastors worldwide via Zoom and speaks at churches and conferences about the oikos principle. QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION AND DISCUSSION 1. Can you name the 8-15 people in your oikos right now? Have you written their names down? 2. What programs or activities in your church might be "good things" that are crowding out the "great thing" Jesus commanded? 3. If your congregation only has five hours per week to give, what would you prioritize? 4. What percentage of your church members could accurately explain the Great Commission? 5. Does your church naturally gravitate toward nurture or outreach? What would it take to be more intentional about evangelism? SHARE THIS EPISODE If this conversation encouraged you or challenged your thinking about your church's future, share it with: * Your church leadership team or board * Your pastor or denomination leader * Church planter networks in your area * Other pastors navigating similar challenges SUBSCRIBE & STAY UPDATED New episodes release on the 1st and 15th of every month. 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Ep. 041 | Part 2 - 6 Keys to Managing Conflict in a Church Revitalization

EPISODE 41: SHOW NOTES Hosts: Bart Blair (Director of Church Revitalization, Assist Church Expansion) & Nathan Bryant (Executive Director, Assist) TLDR: KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Check your own heart first - Before addressing conflict, examine your motivations, attitudes, and potential contributions to the problem (Matthew 7:3-5) 2. Deal openly, not publicly - Address conflict transparently with appropriate parties in proper settings, never air dirty laundry from the pulpit (Proverbs 27:5-6) 3. Seek win-win solutions - Aim for outcomes that strengthen relationships and unity, not just "winning" the argument (Philippians 2:3-4) 4. Bring in outside help early - Don't wait until conflict becomes unredeemable; involve trusted third-party mediators from your network 5. Not every conflict ends in win-win - Sometimes the healthiest resolution is helping someone find a better-fit church where they can thrive 6. 94% of pastors report positive outcomes - When handled properly, conflict leads to better relationships, clarity, and stronger unity MANAGING CONFLICT IN CHURCH REVITALIZATION: 6 ESSENTIAL KEYS (PART 2) TLDR: KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Check your own heart first - Before addressing conflict, examine your motivations, attitudes, and potential contributions to the problem (Matthew 7:3-5) 2. Deal openly, not publicly - Address conflict transparently with appropriate parties in proper settings, never air dirty laundry from the pulpit (Proverbs 27:5-6) 3. Seek win-win solutions - Aim for outcomes that strengthen relationships and unity, not just "winning" the argument (Philippians 2:3-4) 4. Bring in outside help early - Don't wait until conflict becomes unredeemable; involve trusted third-party mediators from your network 5. Not every conflict ends in win-win - Sometimes the healthiest resolution is helping someone find a better-fit church where they can thrive 6. 94% of pastors report positive outcomes - When handled properly, conflict leads to better relationships, clarity, and stronger unity HOW DO YOU CHECK YOUR HEART BEFORE ADDRESSING CHURCH CONFLICT? In part two of this essential series on managing conflict during church revitalization, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant tackle the final three keys that every pastor needs to successfully navigate congregational disputes and maintain unity. WHY DO LEADERS NEED TO EXAMINE THEMSELVES FIRST? Scripture Foundation: "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" - Matthew 7:3-5 Before entering any conflict situation, church leaders must: Stop making assumptions - We often walk into conflict having already decided what the other person thinks, why they're upset, and what their motivations are - usually all negative assumptions Check your attitude - Are you viewing this as a headache to manage or an opportunity to build better unity? Believe the best - 1 Corinthians 13 reminds us that love "believes all things" - enter the room assuming the best about the other person Examine your role - Have you communicated clearly? Made promises you didn't keep? Created unrealistic expectations? You may have contributed to the conflict without realizing it WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT CONFLICT IS RELATIONAL? Even when conflict appears to be about decisions, programs, or practical matters, it almost always becomes relational. People take things personally - sometimes appropriately, sometimes not. As a leader, you need the humility to distinguish between: * Conflict actually directed at you personally * People reacting to situations, changes, or circumstances * Personality-driven responses you don't fully understand WHY IS IT HARD FOR CONGREGATION MEMBERS TO APPROACH THEIR PASTOR? For most people (not all), approaching the pastor about a problem requires significant emotional and social courage. By the time they come to you, the issue has usually reached a significant level of distress for them personally. This means they may have already: * Talked to others about the problem (gossip) * Let the issue fester and grow * Acted out or caused problems with other members * Built up significant emotional charge around the issue Leaders need empathy for how difficult it is for average congregation members to voice concerns to their pastor. Stop being overly sensitive and recognize this as an opportunity for better connection. WHAT DID JESUS SAY ABOUT MAKING THINGS RIGHT? In Matthew 5:23-24, Jesus gives a stunning command: If you're bringing a gift to the altar and you remember that someone has something against you (not that you have something against them), leave your gift and go make it right first. This means: * God prioritizes reconciliation over worship * If someone has a problem with you, it's your responsibility to pursue them * Unity in the body matters more than religious activity * Humble leaders take initiative to resolve conflict, even when they're not sure they're at fault KEY #5: DEAL OPENLY (NOT PUBLICLY) Scripture Foundation: "Better is open rebuke than hidden love. Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses." - Proverbs 27:5-6 WHAT DOES "DEAL OPENLY" ACTUALLY MEAN IN CHURCH CONFLICT? Dealing openly with conflict means: * Not hiding or pretending problems don't exist * Addressing issues directly with appropriate parties * Creating frameworks where healthy disagreement is normal * Being transparent within proper boundaries * Choosing the right context for difficult conversations WHAT DOES "DEAL OPENLY" NOT MEAN? Many pastors confuse openness with public disclosure. Dealing openly does NOT mean: * Airing dirty laundry from the pulpit - This is actually disqualifying behavior for church leaders * Discussing private matters publicly - Protect people's dignity and privacy * Having serious conversations in front of others - If someone confronts you in the lobby with everyone watching, lovingly redirect: "I can see you're distressed. Let's step into an office" or "Let's schedule a time tonight or tomorrow to talk properly" * Broadcasting every detail to the entire congregation HOW DO YOU PROTECT PEOPLE WHILE BEING OPEN ABOUT CONFLICT? Think about your marriage: You and your spouse don't have every conversation in front of your kids or in-laws. Some discussions happen privately between the two of you. The same principle applies in church: * Respect context - Different issues require different levels of disclosure * Protect dignity - Give people honor even when they're wrong * Choose appropriate venues - Board meetings, private offices, scheduled appointments * Maintain confidentiality - Don't gossip about people's struggles WHY IS PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR SO DESTRUCTIVE IN CHURCHES? Most people are passive-aggressive, which creates these toxic patterns: The Surface Level: * Smiling and saying "everything's fine" while harboring resentment * Attending meetings but never voicing real concerns * Agreeing with decisions but complaining afterward * Pretending to be okay while talking to others about problems The Underground Level: * Board members who wait until after decisions are made to express disagreement * People who never bring concerns to leaders but spread them through gossip networks * Congregation members who build entire narratives in their minds without ever seeking clarification * Leaders who remain oblivious to problems until they explode into major conflict The Solution: As leaders, model openness and directness yourself. When you have concerns, address them promptly in appropriate settings. Teach your congregation the "go up, not out" principle - take issues to the person involved or to leadership, not to the gossip network. WHAT IS THE "GO UP, NOT OUT" PRINCIPLE? This simple phrase (taught by Pastor Thornley) helps congregation members understand Matthew 18 conflict resolution: * "Go UP" = Take your concern directly to the person involved, or if that doesn't resolve it, to church leadership * "Go OUT" = Spreading the issue to friends, family, uninvolved parties, creating a gossip network When churches adopt this principle, it prevents conflict from metastasizing throughout the congregation and creating unnecessary division. KEY #6: SEEK WIN-WIN SOLUTIONS (WHEN POSSIBLE) Scripture Foundation: "Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others." - Philippians 2:3-4 WHAT IS THE RIGHT GOAL WHEN RESOLVING CHURCH CONFLICT? Your goal isn't just to "be done" with the conflict. The goal is to emerge with: * Better relationships moving forward * Improved communication and understanding * Stronger unity than before * Clarity on expectations and values * A sense that everyone was heard and respected This means moving beyond "I'm right, you're wrong" thinking to "How can we both honor Jesus and move forward better together?" HOW DO YOU CREATE WIN-WIN SOLUTIONS IN CHURCH CONFLICT? Assume the best about people's intentions * What they want isn't necessarily bad or negative * Their concerns may be valid even if their approach is wrong * Look for the legitimate need or value underneath their complaint Focus on the future, not just the past * Yes, address what happened * Yes, acknowledge hurt or mistakes * But emphasize: "How do we go forward better from here?" Even when someone is clearly wrong: * Don't just extract an apology and move on * Help them understand the path to restoration * Work together on how to prevent it from happening again * Focus on rebuilding trust and relationship Ask the right questions: * What are our shared goals underneath this disagreement? * What do we both truly value? * Are there creative alternatives we haven't considered? * How can we honor the concern while moving the mission forward? WHEN IS A WIN-WIN SOLUTION NOT POSSIBLE? Reality check: Not every conflict can end in win-win. Sometimes the healthiest resolution is separation. This happens when: * Someone demands something contrary to the church's mission, direction, or values * You're convicted the Lord is saying "go right" but they're insisting you must "go left" * The person refuses to compromise on non-essential matters * They're dug in and unwilling to consider alternatives * Fundamental philosophical differences can't be bridged HOW DO YOU HANDLE CONFLICT THAT LEADS TO SOMEONE LEAVING THE CHURCH? Real-world example: A church recently removed pews and installed chairs to create flexible space. One member wrote a two-page letter opposing the decision. The pastor's approach: * Listened with genuine care to understand the real concern (memorial pews ending up in a dumpster) * Found a creative solution (another church wanted the pews) * Maintained gracious, loving posture throughout * Avoided making it personal - kept focus on mission and values * Gave time for the person to process and ultimately come to acceptance When someone truly can't stay: Even in the worst-case scenario, you can maintain dignity and love: "I can see you love Jesus and want to see His kingdom flourish. You're seeing these things differently than we see them here, and that's unfortunate. It doesn't mean you're evil or I'm evil - we just have different convictions. That church down the street actually aligns with your philosophy on this. I want you to thrive in serving Jesus with your gifts. We'd love to have you here, but I don't want you to be frustrated. Maybe God has a better fit for you there." This approach: * Affirms their faith and good intentions * Acknowledges the genuine disagreement * Removes personal animosity * Protects them from ongoing frustration * Helps them find a place to flourish * Maintains relationship (you'll see them at Walmart next week!) WHAT ABOUT CHURCH DISCIPLINE FOR UNREPENTANT SIN? In rare cases involving clear sin and unrepentance, church discipline becomes necessary. This requires: * Other elders involved from the beginning * Following a biblical process (Matthew 18) * Multiple attempts at restoration * Clear communication at each step * Exercising discipline only after exhausting other options This is a separate conversation from typical conflict management, but it represents the most serious end of the conflict spectrum. HOW OFTEN DOES CONFLICT ACTUALLY LEAD TO POSITIVE OUTCOMES? According to Christianity Today research, 94% of pastors report positive outcomes when conflict is handled properly, including: * Greater wisdom and maturity * Better-defined vision * Improved communication * Stronger relationships * Church purification * Growth in unity The key is viewing conflict as an opportunity rather than a threat. 95% of the time (okay, 94%), conflict is leading you to a better place together because you're: * Clarifying what was unclear * Resolving what was unresolved * Addressing what was hidden * Strengthening what was weak WHEN SHOULD YOU BRING IN OUTSIDE HELP FOR CHURCH CONFLICT? Critical principle: Bring in third-party help sooner rather than later. Don't wait until conflict becomes unredeemable. WHO SHOULD YOU CALL FOR HELP? First option - Your network: * District superintendents or overseers * Denominational leaders you trust and respect * Other pastors in your fellowship who can mediate * Church networks or associations you're part of Second option - Professional mediators: * Organizations like Assist Church Expansion * Christian conflict resolution ministries * Trained church consultants WHY IS EARLY INTERVENTION CRITICAL? If conflict goes on too long without resolution: * Positions become entrenched * Emotions escalate beyond reason * Narratives solidify in people's minds * Gossip networks spread misinformation * The situation becomes unredeemable As a leader or elder, know your options BEFORE crisis: * Where can you appeal if you have conflict with the lead pastor? * Where can the lead pastor appeal if conflict arises with elders? * Who are the trusted third parties in your network? * What resources exist for mediation? WHAT IS THE PASTOR'S PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY IN CONFLICT? God has called church leaders to protect the unity of the body of Christ. There's nothing God wants more than His people dwelling together in unity. This means: * Taking responsibility for maintaining unity (not assuming someone else will handle it) * Viewing conflict management as a core leadership function, not an interruption * Pursuing resolution actively rather than passively hoping it goes away * Loving people well through difficult conversations * Keeping the mission of God central while treating people with grace SUMMARY: THE 6 KEYS TO MANAGING CONFLICT IN CHURCH REVITALIZATION From Part 1: 1. Face Reality - Conflict Will Come (James 1:2-4) - Normalize it, expect it, prepare for it 2. Move Toward It Quickly (But Wisely) (Ephesians 4:26-27) - The 48-72 hour rule; pray, process, act 3. Go Face-to-Face (Matthew 18:15-16) - Never use text/email; bring a witness when needed From Part 2: 4. Check Your Own Heart First (Matthew 7:3-5) - Examine your motives, attitudes, and contributions before confronting 5. Deal Openly (Not Publicly) (Proverbs 27:5-6) - Be transparent with appropriate parties in proper settings 6. Seek Win-Win Solutions (Philippians 2:3-4) - Aim for better relationships and unity, not just "winning" WHAT SHOULD YOU DO RIGHT NOW? Immediate action steps: * Identify one conflict you're currently avoiding - schedule a meeting within 72 hours * Establish a covenant with your leadership team about how you'll handle conflict * Write down who you can call for outside help before you need them * Examine your heart: Are you viewing conflict as threat or opportunity? * Teach your congregation the "go up, not out" principle Remember: Unresolved conflict creates more conflict. The unity of the body matters more to God than your comfort, your preferences, or even your worship. Leave your gift at the altar and go make it right. COMING NEXT: MANAGING RESISTANCE IN CHURCH REVITALIZATION In the next two episodes, we'll tackle a related but distinct topic: how to work through resistance when leading a church through change. While conflict and resistance overlap, they require different strategies and approaches. Subscribe so you don't miss these critical episodes on navigating pushback during revitalization. RESOURCES FOR MANAGING CHURCH CONFLICT Download the Faith Communities Today (FACT) Congregational Conflict Study [https://faithcommunitiestoday.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Insights-Into-Congregational-Conflict.pdf] - insights from 14,000+ churches on conflict sources, costs, and outcomes. ABOUT REVITALIZE MY CHURCH PODCAST Hosted by Bart Blair (Director of Church Revitalization at Assist Church Expansion) and Nathan Bryant (Executive Director), this podcast helps pastors and leaders of smaller, struggling churches navigate change and build healthy futures. New episodes release on the 1st and 15th of each month. Subscribe so you don't miss Part 2 of this essential series on conflict management in church revitalization. Is your church experiencing conflict right now? What questions do you have about implementing these principles? Share your thoughts in the comments below. CONNECT WITH US Don't miss future episodes! Subscribe to the Revitalize My Church podcast wherever you listen (Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc.) and leave a rating or review to help others discover the show. About the Revitalize My Church Podcast: Since summer 2024, we've been helping church leaders navigate change and reorient to healthy futures. Our goal isn't to make small churches big—it's to help churches revision, revitalize, or restart find solid footing and healthy systems.

Ep. 040 | Attributes of a Next Level Church Leader

Episode 40: Attributes of a Next Level Leader Revitalize My Church Podcast | Guest: Ed Short | Host: Bart Blair Keywords: next level leader, church leadership development, pastor leadership skills, small church revitalization, leadership attributes for pastors, how to become a better church leader, coaching pastors TL;DR — 4 Key Takeaways Next level leadership is not about jumping from good to great overnight — it's about intentional, incremental growth from wherever you are right now. Effective church leaders develop a set of core attributes including God-dependence, self-awareness, relational competence, and a bias toward implementation. Self-awareness may be the single most critical leadership skill: knowing your strengths to capitalize on, and your weaknesses to neutralize or delegate around. Pastors don't have to do it all alone — identifying implementers and key people on your team who complement your gaps is a legitimate and powerful leadership strategy. Episode Overview What separates a good pastor from a truly effective church leader? In episode 40 of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, host Bart Blair sits down with church leadership coach Ed Short to unpack the key attributes of what Ed calls a "next level leader." Whether you're pastoring a congregation of 40 or 140, this conversation is packed with honest, practical insight designed to help you take your leadership from where it is to where it needs to be. Ed draws on decades of ministry experience — from student pastor to executive pastor to lead pastor of three churches including a church plant — to offer a grounded, real-world framework for leadership development that doesn't require a massive budget or a seminary refresher. Just honest self-assessment and a commitment to growth. About the Guest: Ed Short Ed Short is a church leadership coach and consultant who serves on the Assist Church Expansion team alongside host Bart Blair. His ministry journey spans student ministry, executive pastoral leadership, and lead pastor roles at multiple churches. Ed is passionate about two things above all: evangelism — reaching people far from God — and discipleship, helping new believers begin to look like Jesus. Ed's wife Carol is, in his words, "the best ministry worker I have ever been around" and serves as his most trusted ministry advisor. Ed's coaching work focuses on helping pastors identify their leadership ceiling and take measurable steps to break through it. Note: Ed previously appeared on Episode 15 of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, covering how churches can navigate a pastoral search process. That episode remains the most downloaded in the show's history. What Is a Next Level Leader? Ed uses the analogy of a five-tool baseball player — think Willie Mays or Mike Trout — to frame what it means to be a next level leader. Just as the elite players in baseball excel at hitting for average, hitting for power, speed, fielding, and throwing, great leaders develop across multiple dimensions simultaneously. But the goal isn't perfection — it's progress. As Ed explains: "If you're a four, how do we help you become a five? If you're a six, how do we help you become a seven? Nobody goes from being a four to a nine." The framework Ed has developed identifies a range of attributes, qualities, abilities, and mindsets that characterize next level leaders. Rather than feeling overwhelmed by the full list, Ed encourages leaders to identify three things they can capitalize on and two or three areas they need to neutralize or delegate around. Key Attributes of a Next Level Leader 1. God-Dependence Ed opens with what he calls his own weakest point — and it may be yours too. God-dependence means prioritizing prayer and reliance on God above strategic planning. Ed admits freely: "I would rather plan than pray." This honest vulnerability is itself a leadership quality. For pastors in struggling churches, the temptation to rely on programs, outreach strategies, and revitalization frameworks is real. But sustainable renewal begins with leaders who are genuinely surrendered to God's direction. 2. Self-Awareness Bart identifies self-awareness as possibly the single most glaring leadership deficiency he sees across the pastors he coaches. A next level leader knows who they are — their strengths, their blind spots, their default tendencies under pressure. Self-awareness enables you to: Capitalize on your natural gifts rather than hiding them Neutralize weaknesses by building systems or delegating effectively Invite the right people into your leadership circle Avoid the trap of trying to lead in ways that are fundamentally misaligned with how God wired you 3. Relational Competence and Emotional Intelligence Small churches live and die by relationships. A pastor who cannot build trust, manage interpersonal tension, or read the emotional temperature of a room will struggle to lead change — no matter how sound their vision. Ed and Bart discuss how relational intelligence enables leaders to motivate volunteers, navigate conflict, and create cultures (not just programs) that sustain long-term health. 4. Vision and Communication Next level leaders can articulate where the church is going and why it matters. But vision casting isn't just about big-stage moments — it's the consistent, everyday practice of helping people connect their effort to a larger purpose. This distinction between management (telling people what, how, and when) and leadership (casting vision and guiding people toward it) is a consistent theme on the Revitalize My Church Podcast. Next level leaders lean toward leadership even when management feels more efficient. 5. Being an Implementer Both Bart and Ed agree: the ability to implement — to take a vision off a whiteboard and actually make it happen — may be the most glaring gap in pastoral leadership today. Many pastors are strong visionaries but poor executors. Ed's advice for non-implementers: Identify someone on your team who is a natural implementer and empower them Be honest about your wiring — if you write with your right hand, don't try to lead with your left Read The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber for a practical framework on the difference between workers, managers, and leaders Bart shares a powerful example from his own ministry: a part-time staff member who could take a big-picture concept and execute it flawlessly — leaving no stone unturned. You may already have that person on your team. You just haven't been looking for them. 6. Generosity and Stewardship Development A next level leader understands that financial health in a church is downstream of spiritual and cultural health. Rather than simply hoping the budget improves, they take deliberate steps: Preach on generosity, stewardship, and giving Offer financial discipleship tools like Financial Peace University Reach new people and then invest in discipling them toward biblical generosity As Bart notes, you may not be able to draw a straight line between these efforts and budget improvement — but doing nothing guarantees nothing will change. Practical Application for Small Church Pastors If you're leading a smaller or struggling church, here's how to put this episode to work immediately: 1. Do a personal leadership audit. Identify your top 3 strengths and your 2-3 biggest gaps. Be honest — the goal isn't a performance review, it's clarity. 2. Stop trying to lead with your non-dominant hand. If implementation isn't your gift, find the person in your church or on your team who does it well and empower them. 3. Build a culture, not just a program. Culture takes time, but it starts with intentionality. What are you doing consistently to create cultures of generosity, evangelism, and discipleship? 4. Start praying before planning. Even if — especially if — this doesn't come naturally to you. 5. Read The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. It's older but highly practical for understanding the worker-manager-leader distinction. Resources Mentioned in This Episode The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber — available on Amazon in digital format (~150 pages, highly accessible) Episode 15: How to Help Your Church Find a New Pastor — the most downloaded episode of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, also featuring Ed Short Assist Church Expansion — assistcx.org Revitalize My Church Podcast website — revitalizemy.church/podcast About Revitalize My Church Podcast The Revitalize My Church Podcast is produced by Assist Church Expansion and hosted by Bart Blair, Director of Church Revitalization. New episodes release on the 1st and 15th of each month. The show exists to help pastors and church leaders navigate change, recapture vision, and move their congregations toward a new and healthy future — without pretending they have unlimited budgets, staff, or energy.