The Changemakers

In this episode of The Changemakers, Dave chats with Rachel Gogel, a seasoned creative executive consultant. Having built brands at titans like The New York Times, Meta, and Airbnb, Rachel knows a thing or two about transforming brand from a 'nice-to-have' into a vital business engine, and dives into her diverse career journey, from her graphic design roots to her current role as a fractional design leader and educator. For creative leaders, Rachel offers invaluable advice on getting brand taken seriously. She champions speaking the language of business, focusing on metrics like user retention and conversion rates rather than just aesthetics. And she passionately champions in-product brand experiences, explaining how a strong brand isn't just about aesthetics, but about creating seamless, intuitive interactions within the product itself. Drawing on her experiences, Rachel shares how to speak the language of executives, connecting brand initiatives to tangible outcomes like user retention, conversion rates, and lifetime value. She also shares the story behind her recent SXSW London panel, "Crafting Magic: The Art of Product", featuring fellow design leaders from Dropbox, Slack and Anthropic. The conversation also explores the unique brand approach at Airbnb, where design and brand are valued from the very top. Rachel explains how to scale brand across diverse organisations, stressing that strong relationships and clear roles trump rigid org charts. She tackles the tricky balance of maintaining consistency while allowing teams to move fast. Finally, we get into practical tips for leaders navigating competing priorities, including internal education, piloting ideas, and the power of user research in validating branded moments. Ultimately, Rachel advocates a powerful mindset shift: moving beyond brand as decoration to brand as experience, recognising that product and brand are inseparable in the user's mind. Timestamps: * 00:00 Introduction and Welcome Rachel Gogel * 01:52 Rachel's Diverse Career Journey and Fractional Leadership * 06:50 SXSW London Panel: In-Product Brand Experiences * 10:30 Advocating for Brand with Executive Teams * 13:14 Brand as a Business Critical Function: Lessons from NYT & Meta * 20:00 The Airbnb Approach to Brand and Design * 26:22 Scaling Brand Across Organisations and Best Practices * 34:10 Essential Qualities for Creative Leaders * 44:30 Beyond Decoration: Brand as Experience Send us a message if you enjoyed this episode [https://www.buzzsprout.com/twilio/text_messages/2057233/open_sms] If you enjoy the chats then there are more ways to quench your thirst for creative inspiration in the world of B2B tech. 👉 Watch episodes on YouTube [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvnlkJwGYRFgc0BZMSft9nAHLHPLfKWCu&si=uEaJ3dnO8ApffhTx] 👉 Follow us on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/shaped-by] for regular snippets in your feed 👉 Visit our website [https://shaped-by.com/] for more in-depth thinking on topics 👉 Subscribe to Beyond [https://shaped-by.com/subscribe-for-b2b-inspiration/] our monthly collection of insight, opinion and inspiration And finally please rate our podcast on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-changemakers/id1599320479] if you enjoyed it! ✌️

In this episode of The Changemakers, Dave welcomes back Melissa Rosenthal - marketer, media veteran, and now co-founder of Outlever - for a conversation that unpacks how companies can truly own their voice through thought leadership. With experience leading creative at ClickUp, along with shaping the rise of media brands like BuzzFeed and Cheddar, Melissa brings a unique perspective on why traditional media models are no longer enough - and what brands should be doing instead. She shares the story behind founding Outlever, a platform helping B2B companies transform into modern media hubs by amplifying subject matter experts, customers, and partners - not just executives. This isn’t about vanity publishing. It’s about scale, speed, and relevance. Melissa explains how AI-powered media listening, layered with editorial expertise, can surface the right angles, elevate authentic perspectives, and unlock a new kind of brand-building: one rooted in trust, timeliness, and community insight. If your brand’s thought leadership strategy starts and ends with LinkedIn posts or recycled threat reports, this conversation is the wake-up call you need. Melissa dives into why most companies are still stuck in old playbooks, how to break out of them, and what it takes to create a differentiated voice in crowded markets - especially when budgets are tight and attention is scarcer than ever. Whether you’re leading marketing at a tech company, building brand awareness in a crowded category, or rethinking your content strategy, this episode is full of practical insights and fresh thinking on how to turn thought leadership into a true business asset. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview 00:34 Upcoming Trip and Recent Projects 01:17 Episode Focus: Thought Leadership in B2B 02:18 Guest Introduction: Melissa Rosenthal 04:32 Melissa's Journey and Founding Out Leave 13:14 The Role of AI in Thought Leadership 16:10 Trends and Insights from Out Leave's Platform 21:02 Challenges and Differentiation in Branding 24:54 Conclusion and Future Directions Send us a message if you enjoyed this episode [https://www.buzzsprout.com/twilio/text_messages/2057233/open_sms] If you enjoy the chats then there are more ways to quench your thirst for creative inspiration in the world of B2B tech. 👉 Watch episodes on YouTube [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvnlkJwGYRFgc0BZMSft9nAHLHPLfKWCu&si=uEaJ3dnO8ApffhTx] 👉 Follow us on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/shaped-by] for regular snippets in your feed 👉 Visit our website [https://shaped-by.com/] for more in-depth thinking on topics 👉 Subscribe to Beyond [https://shaped-by.com/subscribe-for-b2b-inspiration/] our monthly collection of insight, opinion and inspiration And finally please rate our podcast on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-changemakers/id1599320479] if you enjoyed it! ✌️

Here’s another of our Byte-Size episodes! These are little chats between the team at Shaped By, sometimes about creativity in B2B, sometimes about something completely different. In this one, Nick Farrar, Founder and CEO of Shaped By, and Jess Evans, Head of Delivery, get into B Corp. Why did we become a B Corp? What does it mean for us as an agency? And what’s next, both for us and for B Corp more broadly? They cover everything from the certification process to the ongoing work of embedding B Corp values in a way that actually makes a difference - not just a badge for the website. 00:00 Introduction to the podcast 00:15 Why Shaped By became a B Corp 02:03 What B Corp means to us 04:25 The role of SMEs in driving change 06:48 The certification process - how tough was it? 10:14 Where we did well (and where we could improve) 14:29 What we’ve done in our first year as a B Corp 17:02 Plans for 2025 and beyond 21:18 The bigger picture: what’s next for B Corp? 24:41 Embedding B Corp values into agency life 27:05 Wrapping up Send us a message if you enjoyed this episode [https://www.buzzsprout.com/twilio/text_messages/2057233/open_sms] If you enjoy the chats then there are more ways to quench your thirst for creative inspiration in the world of B2B tech. 👉 Watch episodes on YouTube [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvnlkJwGYRFgc0BZMSft9nAHLHPLfKWCu&si=uEaJ3dnO8ApffhTx] 👉 Follow us on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/shaped-by] for regular snippets in your feed 👉 Visit our website [https://shaped-by.com/] for more in-depth thinking on topics 👉 Subscribe to Beyond [https://shaped-by.com/subscribe-for-b2b-inspiration/] our monthly collection of insight, opinion and inspiration And finally please rate our podcast on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-changemakers/id1599320479] if you enjoyed it! ✌️

Motion design is often the unsung hero of brand and product storytelling - especially in B2B tech. But what does it take to bring complex, sometimes ‘unsexy’ products to life? And how can you move beyond one-off animations and build a scalable, strategic motion system that strengthens a brand over time? First, Joshua Baron, Senior Brand Designer – Motion at Jasper, shares his approach to crafting motion systems that bring clarity to intricate products, the balance between abstraction and realism in design, and the evolving role of AI in motion. Then, Peter Dickinson, Head of Motion at Skyscanner, dives into the power of motion systems at scale, how consistency builds brand trust, why motion should have a seat at the table from day one, and how to develop flexible guidelines that adapt across platforms. If you’re a motion designer, marketer, or creative looking to sharpen your approach to motion in branding, this episode is packed with insights on both the craft and strategy of motion design. Send us a message if you enjoyed this episode [https://www.buzzsprout.com/twilio/text_messages/2057233/open_sms] If you enjoy the chats then there are more ways to quench your thirst for creative inspiration in the world of B2B tech. 👉 Watch episodes on YouTube [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvnlkJwGYRFgc0BZMSft9nAHLHPLfKWCu&si=uEaJ3dnO8ApffhTx] 👉 Follow us on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/shaped-by] for regular snippets in your feed 👉 Visit our website [https://shaped-by.com/] for more in-depth thinking on topics 👉 Subscribe to Beyond [https://shaped-by.com/subscribe-for-b2b-inspiration/] our monthly collection of insight, opinion and inspiration And finally please rate our podcast on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-changemakers/id1599320479] if you enjoyed it! ✌️

Welcome to another byte-size episode! In this one, Dave and Alex, Shaped By's marketing director, chat about the upcoming webinar on the challenges of working with founders to build a strong brand. They cover the common roadblocks - like navigating emotional attachments, getting buy-in from disengaged founders, and aligning leadership on brand direction. They also introduce the expert panel joining the webinar: • Kira Klaas – VP of Corporate Marketing at Later • Tim Bauer – Director of Brand Experience at Scale AI • Tom Ovens – Creative Director at Shaped By If you work with founders this session is packed with insights on turning vision into a brand that actually works in the market.  To join the conversation register here: https://shaped-by.com/building-a-founder-led-b2b-brand/ [https://shaped-by.com/building-a-founder-led-b2b-brand/] And here's the link to Kira Klass's brilliant Substack 'On Brand': https://kiraklaas.substack.com/ [https://kiraklaas.substack.com/] Send us a message if you enjoyed this episode [https://www.buzzsprout.com/twilio/text_messages/2057233/open_sms] If you enjoy the chats then there are more ways to quench your thirst for creative inspiration in the world of B2B tech. 👉 Watch episodes on YouTube [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvnlkJwGYRFgc0BZMSft9nAHLHPLfKWCu&si=uEaJ3dnO8ApffhTx] 👉 Follow us on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/shaped-by] for regular snippets in your feed 👉 Visit our website [https://shaped-by.com/] for more in-depth thinking on topics 👉 Subscribe to Beyond [https://shaped-by.com/subscribe-for-b2b-inspiration/] our monthly collection of insight, opinion and inspiration And finally please rate our podcast on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-changemakers/id1599320479] if you enjoyed it! ✌️