The Story Rules Podcast

E27: Deepak Jayaraman - Playing to your (Storytelling) Potential

“…while Ikigai was useful, I felt at a granular level, it did not take into account the balance sheet elements of life (health, family), it did not take into account transitions. So, I said, let me try and put something out which takes into account some of the other richness and the complexities of life.” Welcome to the Story Rules podcast with me, Ravishankar Iyer, where we learn from some of the best storytellers in the world, find their story and unearth the secrets of their craft. Today we speak with Deepak Jayaraman, India’s foremost expert on the topic of maximising your true potential as a leader and a human being. Deepak is the force behind the popular ‘Play to Potential’ podcast, wherein he has conducted over one hundred interviews with global luminaries such as Vishwanathan Anand, Ramachandra Guha, Daniel Pink and Stephen Covey. Late last year, Deepak released his first book, also called Play to Potential - and it is a fascinating read. It is not just a compendium of interviews or themes – the book features some powerful original thinking by Deepak on how to approach the challenging problem of finding and journeying towards your true north as a human being.  Normally, when we speak of finding your purpose, the Japanese notion of Ikigai comes to mind. But in this book Deepak shares a breakthrough new framework called ‘FLAVOUR’ – which is a more nuanced and wholesome approach to finding your purpose and direction, as compared to Ikigai. Having said that, in this conversation, my focus is not so much on the book’s contents, as it is about Deepak’s storytelling skills and approach. We discuss topics such as: - How Deepak would figure out the right source material for his ideas - His use of the Rule of three, to distil complex insights into pithy, short structures - Deepak’s varied and stellar use of analogies to explain abstract and difficult concepts in a relatable and easy-to-remember manner. Thinking in metaphors seems to be Deepak’s natural spike as a storyteller, and I would urge you to buy the book, just to enjoy the rich analogies that he uses - The use of vivid personal anecdotes and evocative quotes - We also talk about the source of his unending curiosity and drive to share insights on his podcast and other platforms. In short, in this conversation, you get a bunch of life and career advice, AND you also learn a bunch of storytelling techniques. I’m sure you’ll find it of significant value.  Let’s dive in. Show notes: Play to Potential book on Amazon [https://www.amazon.in/Play-Potential-Deepak-Jayaraman/dp/0670099988] Deepak's website [https://www.playtopotential.com/] and LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/djayaraman/] page.

E26: Rama Bijapurkar - Foremost Expert On Consumer India

“Yeah, I think there's a little bit of a tyranny of "Or" that is implicit in your question, Numbers OR anecdotes, you know? As you say, in Indian spirituality, if you examine a problem deeply enough, the contradiction should vanish. So I'm often asking people that what is the story that the numbers are telling you that you're finding resonating in your anecdotes?” Welcome to the Story Rules podcast with me, Ravishankar Iyer, where we learn from some of the best storytellers in the world, find their story and unearth the secrets of their craft. Today we speak with Rama Bijapurkar, a leading market strategy consultant, best-selling author, teacher, and leader on several company boards. For decades, Rama has been a keen observer and insightful commentator on the Indian consumer market. She's written several books, including her latest, ‘Lilliput Land: How Small Is Driving India's Mega Consumption Story’. Rama's career path is fascinating. With a background in physics, she transitioned to market research and consulting, and became a highly sought-after expert on consumer behaviour and business strategy in India. Any MNC entering the Indian consumer market would have either read Rama’s books or gotten her advice on how to approach this unique and challenging space. In this conversation, we explore Rama's fascinating perspective on the Indian consumer, her storytelling approach, and the insights she's gleaned from her research and experience. We discuss the power of anecdotes, the importance of credibility, and the importance of analogies in storytelling. Rama's ability to connect the dots between data, anecdotes, and real-world observations is fascinating. This episode is a must-listen for anyone keen on understanding the Indian consumer, changing market dynamics and the power of storytelling in business. Let's dive in. Show Notes Lilliput Land [https://www.amazon.in/Lilliput-Land-Driving-Indias-Consumption/dp/014346549X] on Amazon Rama Bijapurkar’s personal website [https://ramabijapurkar.com/] and handle on X [https://x.com/rama_bijapurkar]

E25: Nitin Seth - Mastering Data in the AI Age

“Storytelling is not about glibness. Storytelling is not about verbosity. Storytelling is not just about your confidence or doing it though it is an important aspect of it. Storytelling is fundamentally about the clarity of what you are saying." That is Nitin Seth, Co-Founder and CEO of Incedo Inc. and author of the recent bestseller, 'Mastering the Data Paradox [https://www.amazon.in/Mastering-Data-Paradox-Key-Winning/dp/014346552X]’. This 600-page tome provides leaders with a detailed blueprint for making the most of the data opportunity in the AI age. I often say that ‘data is the new oil, storytelling is the new refinery’. Well, this book opened my eyes to the multiple layers of refining that data has to go through before it is ready for the storytelling step. In the book, Nitin explains why managing the data explosion is so challenging and what large firms should do to win in the data-first world we live in. He proposes a ‘Unified Solutions Framework’ – a 13-point plan for success. The comprehensive framework covers several diverse aspects including customer problem definition, managing multi-source data, building your data stack, data security and quality, data culture and managing data talent.  Nitin knows what he’s talking about. After leading the Mckinsey Knowledge Centre and Fidelity International’s operations in India, he was the COO at Flipkart. Currently, as the co-founder and CEO of Incedo Inc., a Data and AI consulting firm, Nitin works with leaders of several Fortune 100 and Fortune 500 companies to help them navigate the data-first world. In this conversation, we dive into three broad themes. One, Nitin’s own journey as a storyteller. He starts with an evocative IIT-Delhi story when he roused a bunch of lazy hostelites into cheering for their badminton team (just like the movie Chichhore!). He speaks about his work convincing sceptical audiences - from union workers to board members – at large companies like Tata Steel. Nitin also shares a ‘failure story’ of when his pitch to a senior internal audience at McKinsey did not work, and what he learnt from that experience.  Two, we move on to the contents of the book itself. Data is a paradox – most organisations want more of it, but don’t know what to do with the amount they have. They are spending hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more on data transformation projects, but the impact of the spend is questionable. Nitin cuts through all the noise and brings some clarity to this messy world of data. Some of his key insights are - The importance of KPI Trees or Issue trees as a starting point in a data project - The need to think of data as products you make with the user in mind and not as an asset that you have control over - The need to connect, or integrate insights from data like a ‘sutradhar’ or narrator Finally, we speak about the implications of the book for data professionals. Nitin speaks about the need for data professionals to develop 'T-Shaped' capabilities. Depth in one or two specific areas of data (for instance an industry like insurance or a function like CRM) and breadth in horizontal skills like problem-solving and storytelling. Personally, I was also mighty impressed by how Nitin worked outside his main office hours from 10 pm to 1 am for 3 years to find the time to write this book.  I’m sure you’ll walk away with several rich insights and ideas after listening to this fascinating conversation. Let’s dive in. Further links: - Nitin's website [https://thenitinseth.com/] and LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nitinseth/], Twitter [https://x.com/seth_nitin] profiles - The book's website [https://masteringthedataparadox.com/] - Incedo [https://www.incedoinc.com/] Inc

E24: Anurag P and Nachammai S - Indus Valley Annual Report

“I think the biggest takeaway for me has to be about the storytelling bit of it and how important it is to tell a story. And I think I will not even take the credit for it. I will give most of the credit to Sajith because of driving the whole process, right? If you look at him, he has done it three times. So the driving of the story, how do you tell a story? What is the story? What are you trying to answer? All of those things are something that I learned along the way.”  - Anurag P, Blume Ventures In this episode, we speak with Anurag Pagaria and Nachammai Savithri (or NS), co-authors of the Indus Valley Annual Report 2024. The Indus Valley Annual Report (now in its 3rd year of publication) by VC firm Blume Ventures offers the most definitive story of the vibrant Indian startup ecosystem. Several decades later when historians study the origin of this phenomenon during this crucial period in India’s economic history, I have no doubt that the Indus Valley reports would be among their go-to sources While the report’s authorship is led by the inimitable Sajith Pai, I thought it would be useful to speak to the folks who would have done the bulk of the research and creation work for the deck. (Incidentally I have already interviewed Sajith on this podcast [https://storyrules.buzzsprout.com/1742201/10809029-e17-sajith-pai-foremost-thought-leader-of-india-s-startup-ecosystem] earlier – a must listen episode). So in this conversation, Anurag and NS get into the weeds of how they picked key themes for covering in the report, how they went across the research process, how the draft storylines were crafted, the review and refinement process for the narrative and finally the visual element in creating the deck. Several fascinating takeaways for students of data-storytelling emerge from the episode: - Simple tools work for research and retrieval: The three of them just used basic G-Suite tools for the project - Leading with the story: Once a reasonable amount of data for a theme/sector was collected, the first step was to create a skeleton storyline and refine it before making the slides - Connecting the dots: The team would not look at sectors in silos. Instead connections were made between similar patterns across sectors and geographies - Following Data Storytelling basics: Clear messages on top of slides, connecting messages across slides, using transition slides between sections -  Simple visuals: No fancy graphics and charts – just simple column, bar and line charts to explain the message in the easiest way possible - Using engagement elements: Evocative images, tweets and quotes from credible people to make the content engaging for the general reader I am sure you will derive a lot of value from this in-depth conversation. Let’s dive in. Show Notes: - My post [https://www.storyrules.com/5-data-story-lessons-and-1-missing-element-from-the-indus-valley-annual-report/ ] analysing the storytelling techniques used in the report - Steve Jobs Interview [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZM5ZlouOII] – on the importance of story at Pixar: - Sajith Pai [https://storyrules.buzzsprout.com/1742201/10809029-e17-sajith-pai-foremost-thought-leader-of-india-s-startup-ecosystem] on Story Rules Podcast - Anurag on Twitter [https://x.com/anurag_pagaria] and LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/anuragpagaria/] - Nachammai Savithri on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nachammai-savithiri/] - Blume website [https://blume.vc/], Twitter [https://twitter.com/blumeventures] and YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVGOgVL6OJyoxWFN1pmLCw]

E23: Dharmesh Ba - The Art of the User Interview

"And he gave a very (interesting) thought experiment. He said, go to your Facebook, remove all your school friends, remove all your relatives, remove all your college friends, work friends. And, if you're able to get 10 people after removing all of this, then probably you're lucky. Okay. I think that had a very profound impact to say that, you know… It was true, right? You know, because all the people that I knew, we're all from the same college, same school, same town, blah, blah, right? You know, you would never have like a Swiggy delivery executive as a part of your Facebook friend list, right? You would never have someone who is a farmer as a part of your WhatsApp contact list, right? Which means that, you know, our worldviews are generally also limited, right? So research allows you to break away from that and meet other people and gives you an opportunity to learn about their stories." Welcome to the Story Rules podcast with me, Ravishankar Iyer, where we learn from some of the best storytellers in the world, find their story, and unearth the secrets of their craft. Today we speak with Dharmesh Ba, a behavioural researcher who writes the popular India Notes newsletter and is the founder of 1990 Research Labs. I came across Dharmesh through leading India-based VC Sajith Pai – who dubbed him as ‘Indus Valley's chief anthropologist’ (though Dharmesh prefers the term ‘ethnographer’). In simpler terms, Dharmesh is an expert on the art and craft of understanding user behavior and motivations, through detailed personal interviews - so that we can design better products and services. Why is this important? I remember an interview from Oct-2019 of Kalyan Krishnamurthy [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Uh9gAVd5E], the CEO of Flipkart, where he stated the importance of this task. His key point: The e-commerce puzzle had been solved for the top-tier users in the country – the top 8 cities. But for the vast middle and bottom tiers, product managers would need to completely reimagine every aspect of the product from the ground up. They can only do that by a comprehensive understanding of user behaviour in their context and environment. Dharmesh and his team are among the ones at the forefront of this initiative – to understand user behaviour. Their clients include leading corporates and non-profits which are building products and services for these hundreds of millions of aspiring Indians… and Dharmesh and team are doing the critical and under-appreciated task of deeply understanding their world. They do this through in-depth, well-researched and structured conversations with the users. There’s a lot of science and craft that Dharmesh uses to ensure that the interviewee trusts him and is willing to share the true reasons for their choices. We will learn about them in this podcast conversation. And while we will learn about interviewing techniques, analysis approaches, and presentation tips, the overarching message I could glean after speaking with Dharmesh was – be curious, empathetic, and respectful. It’s a must-listen conversation for anyone keen on conducting detailed user interviews, analysing the responses, and coming up with clear recommendations – for product design, research, employee well-being – multiple use cases. Let’s dive in. Show Notes: Dharmesh on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dharmeshba/?originalSubdomain=in] and Twitter [https://twitter.com/dharmeshba] Link Tree [https://linktr.ee/theindianotes] with most popular links and work by Dharmesh India Notes Newsletter [https://newsletter.theindianotes.com/]