Decoder with Nilay Patel

Today, I’m talking with Matt Mullenweg, the founder and CEO of Automattic and the public face of WordPress. Last year, Matt essentially went to war, publicly and in the courts, against a hosting company called WP Engine, and there’s been significant fallout at Automattic and the broader WordPress community.   It’s been a long, drawn-out saga. That said, Matt was willing to come on the show and talk through some of this thinking here, why he made some of the decisions he did, and also what he regrets about how some of this went down.  Links:  * The messy WordPress drama, explained | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/27/24256361/wordpress-wp-engine-drama-explained-matt-mullenweg] * Celebrating 20 Years of Automattic | Automattic [https://automattic.com/2025/06/20/automattic-20-years/] * Matt Mullenweg: ‘WordPress.org just belongs to me’ | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/4/24262232/matt-mullenweg-wordpress-org-wp-engine] * Automattic offered employees another chance to quit over | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/17/24272867/automattic-employee-buyout-wordpress-drama] * WordPress owner Automattic is laying off 16 percent of workers | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/642187/automattic-wordpress-layoffs-matt-mullenweg] * Tumblr will move all of its blogs to WordPress | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/28/24230587/tumblr-move-blogs-wordpress-automattic] * Beeper was just acquired by Automattic | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/9/24124179/beeper-app-automattic-acquisition-matrix-messaging] * Automattic acquires relationship manager Clay | TechCrunch [https://techcrunch.com/2025/06/12/automattic-acquires-relationship-manager-clay-to-add-an-identity-layer-to-online-tools/] * How WordPress and Tumblr are keeping the internet weird | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/15/22977857/wordpress-tumblr-simplenote-internet-automattic-matt-mullenweg-interview] * How to buy a social network, with Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/23506085/wordpress-twitter-tumblr-ceo-matt-mullenweg-elon-musk] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Today, I’m talking with Hinge founder and CEO Justin McLeod. Hinge is one of the biggest dating apps in the United States — it’s rivaled only by Tinder, and both are owned by the massive conglomerate Match Group, which has consolidated a huge chunk of the online dating ecosystem. Justin and I dug into that here, and we also explored some of the thorny issues around AI and dating, Hinge’s monetization, and data privacy in the second Trump administration. This is a fun one, with a whole lot going on. I think you’ll like it.  Read the full interview transcript here on The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/e/687683]. Links:  * How We Do Things | Hinge [https://hinge.co/mission] * Hinge’s First Gen Z Report | Hinge [https://hinge.co/newsroom/2024-GenZ-Report] * Hinge’s new AI feature judges your prompt responses | TechCrunch [https://techcrunch.com/2025/01/15/hinge-new-ai-feature-determines-if-your-prompt-response-is-too-basic/] * When Cupid Is a prying journalist | NYT / Modern Love [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/style/modern-love-when-cupid-is-a-prying-journalist.html] * Tinder CEO Faye Iosotaluno to step down in July | CNBC [https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/22/tinder-ceo-faye-iosotaluno-to-step-down-in-july-.html] * Match Group CEO Rascoff to lead struggling Tinder app | WSJ [https://www.wsj.com/business/tinder-ceo-iosotaluno-to-step-down-match-group-ceo-rascoff-to-be-successor-8204c133] * Replika CEO says it’s okay if we end up marrying AI chatbots | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/24216748/replika-ceo-eugenia-kuyda-ai-companion-chatbots-dating-friendship-decoder-podcast-interview] * Apple ordered to keep web links in the App Store | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/679946/apple-rejected-court-attempt-to-stop-app-store-web-links] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. Decoder is on a short summer break right now, but we’ll be back starting June 23 with new episodes, and we’re very excited for what we have on the schedule.  In the meantime, we have an episode from the excellent podcast Stay Tuned with Preet, with host and former U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara. Last month, Preet sat down with former FTC Chair Lina Khan for a pretty high-level discussion about antitrust, monopoly power, and the ongoing shift from both political parties in the United States toward more aggressive, bipartisan regulation of Big Tech. I think you’ll find it really interesting.    Links:  * Stay Tuned with Preet | Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stay-tuned-with-preet/id1265845136] * Google loses ad tech monopoly case | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/650665/google-loses-ad-tech-antitrust-monopoly-lawsuit] * Judge greenlights FTC’s antitrust suit against Amazon | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/7/24264605/ftc-amazon-antitrust-motion-to-dismiss] * Judge rules that Google ‘is a monopolist’ in US antitrust case | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/5/24155520/judge-rules-on-us-doj-v-google-antitrust-search-suit] * Illegally fired FTC commissioners on Meta, bribes, and fighting for privacy | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/657115/ftc-bedoya-slaughter-trump-fired-supreme-court-interview] * The case for breaking up Google has never been stronger | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/654243/jonathan-kanter-antitrust-google-ad-tech-monopoly-doj] * DOJ antitrust chief is ‘overjoyed’ after Google monopoly verdict | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/24215684/doj-jonathan-kanter-antitrust-google-monopoly-verdict-win-decoder-podcast-interview] * DOJ’s Kanter says the antitrust fight against Big Tech is just beginning  | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/24067873/jonathan-kanter-doj-antitrust-google-policy-monopoly-big-tech] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Today, I’m talking with Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith. Taskrabbit is an interesting company; it’s known best for being a platform for hiring people to put together your furniture, so much so that Ikea acquired it in 2017. But Taskrabbit is still operating as a mostly independent company all these years later, and Ania is now in charge of maneuvering a fast-changing labor market during uncertain economic times and a potentially major AI disruption to the workforce on the horizon. Help us plan for the future of Decoder by filling out a brief survey: voxmedia.com/survey [http://voxmedia.com/survey]. We’d really appreciate it. Thanks! Links:  * Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky wants to build the everything app | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/677324/airbnb-ceo-brian-chesky-services-redesign-app-future-travel] * Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay with reinventing the bus | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel/672087/uber-dara-khosrowshahi-waymo-ai-bus-transit-tesla-self-driving] * Google’s Project Mariner | Google [https://deepmind.google/models/project-mariner/] * Uber is testing a service that lets you hire drivers for chores | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/14/23960367/uber-tasks-pilot-chores-driver-courier-laborer] * Taskrabbit CEO on using empathy in leadership | Fortune [https://www.aol.com/finance/taskrabbit-ceo-m-better-gig-152119226.html] * Taskrabbit takes over on-demand moving service Dolly | GeekWire [https://www.geekwire.com/2024/taskrabbit-quietly-acquired-on-demand-moving-service-dolly/] * Ikea integrates Taskrabbit booking service into checkout | Retail Dive [https://www.retaildive.com/news/ikea-streamlines-taskrabbit-furniture-assembly-service-checkout/740315/] * TaskRabbit to close its offices, go entirely remote | MarketWatch [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/taskrabbit-to-close-its-offices-go-entirely-remote-11653362034] * IKEA has bought TaskRabbit | TechCrunch [https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/28/ikea-buys-taskrabbit/] * Taskrabbit CEO: People will still power an AI workforce | Verge [http://theverge.com/a/verge-2021/stacy-brown-philpot-taskrabbit-ceo-interview-ai-gig-economy] Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Today, I’m talking with Runway CEO and co-founder Cris Valenzuela. This one’s special: Cris and I were live at an event in New York City last month hosted by Alix Partners, so you’ll hear the audience from time to time.  Runway is a leading AI video generation platform, and it’s getting better all the time. That puts Cris and his company on the same collision course with creators, artists, and copyright law as every other part of the AI industry — and you’ll hear Cris and I really get into all that here. Links:  * AMC Networks inks deal with AI company Runway | Hollywood Reporter [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/amc-networks-runway-ai-deal-1236255108/] * We made a film with AI. You’ll be blown away — and freaked out | WSJ [https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/ai-film-google-veo-runway-3918ae28] * Mark Zuckerberg just declared war on the entire advertising industry | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/meta/659506/mark-zuckerberg-ai-facebook-ads] * Runway says its latest AI video model can generate consistent scenes, people | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/640821/runway-gen-4-artificial-intelligence-video-generator-filmmaking] * Runway releases an impressive new video-generating AI model | TechCrunch [https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/31/runway-releases-an-impressive-new-video-generating-ai-model/] * Runway Trained on Thousands of YouTube Videos Without Permission | 404 Media [https://www.404media.co/runway-ai-image-generator-training-data-youtube/] * Runway partners with Lionsgate to train on its catalog of video | Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/18/24248115/lionsgate-runway-ai-deal] * AI companies lose bid to dismiss parts of visual artists' copyright case | Reuters [https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/ai-companies-lose-bid-dismiss-parts-visual-artists-copyright-case-2024-08-13/] Help us plan for the future of Decoder by filling out this ⁠brief survey⁠ [http://voxmedia.com/survey]. Thank you! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]