How to Lead with Clay Scroggins and Adam Tarnow

“What Gen Z and Millennials Really Want From Their Leaders” (And why it’s probably not a ping-pong table) Today’s younger workforce isn’t just looking for a paycheck or a trendy office perk. Gen Z and millennials want something deeper: meaningful work, balanced lives, and leaders they can actually trust. In this episode, Clay and Adam unpack the latest findings from the Deloitte Global 2025 survey — revealing what these generations really expect from leadership and why many companies are missing the mark. Four surprising insights we dig into: 1️⃣ Well-being Isn’t a Perk — It’s the Point More than half of Gen Zs and nearly half of millennials say they’re anxious or stressed most of the time. They expect leaders to talk about mental health and model healthier work rhythms. 2️⃣ Purpose Matters Over 60% have turned down work that clashes with their values. They want leaders who act like stewards, not just managers chasing numbers. 3️⃣ Flexibility and Belonging Beat Prestige Career growth isn’t just about climbing ladders — it’s about feeling seen, included, and trusted with real flexibility. 4️⃣ Growth is the New Loyalty They’ll stick with leaders who invest in them. Over half have left roles due to a lack of development or career progression. Throughout the episode, Clay and Adam share honest stories about the leaders who made them feel safe, seen, and stretched — and how today’s managers can do the same without burning themselves out. Closing challenge: If you lead anyone under 40, ask yourself: Am I creating a culture that supports well-being, lives out real values, and gives people a reason to stay? More importantly: Would you want to work for you?

Burnout isn’t a badge of honor—and it’s not the end of the road. In this episode, Clay and Adam unpack four surprising reasons high-capacity leaders hit a wall—and how to bounce back without guilt or heroic grit. From emotional fatigue to financial pressure, they explore what’s really behind burnout and what to do when work won’t let up. You’ll learn why burnout isn’t always about working too much—sometimes it’s about doing the wrong kind of work. Plus, they share personal stories, practical rhythms, and one small step you can take this week to protect your energy and lead from a healthier place. Key Topics: * The difference between burnout and exhaustion * Why boredom might be draining your energy * How to lead yourself through stress when no one else will * What to do when financial pressure keeps you stuck About Clay Scroggins:  Clay Scroggins is a sought-after ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠speaker and leadership coach⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠known for his practical and engaging approach to leadership. He is the author of three books, most notably ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Lead When You're Not In Charge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. With a passion for helping leaders thrive in any environment, Clay brings valuable insights and real-world experience to this podcast and his ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠weekly email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more at ClayScroggins.com About Adam Tarnow: Adam Tarnow is a recovering CPA and now a partner at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PeopleWorks International⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where he heads the Leadership Development Practice. He is the co-author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Edge: How to Stand Out by Showing You're All In⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and shares his insights on leadership through his Substack, Beyond the Obvious. Learn more at AdamTarnow.com

Middle management gets a bad rap: too much pressure, not enough power, and none of the credit. But what if we’ve misunderstood its purpose all along? In this episode, we reframe the middle—not as a corporate purgatory, but as a vital proving ground. You’ll discover why this role is more than a rung on the ladder—it’s a shaping season that builds vision, resilience, and sound judgment. We’ll explore: * Why the role is misunderstood (and unfairly maligned) * How the valley of middle management forms you—not just frustrates you * Where the role is headed in the future—from manager to wayfinder Key takeaway: Stop trying to escape the middle. Start learning from it. Challenge: Ask yourself: How is this season shaping me into the leader I’m becoming? About Clay Scroggins:  Clay Scroggins is a sought-after ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠speaker and leadership coach⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠known for his practical and engaging approach to leadership. He is the author of three books, most notably ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Lead When You're Not In Charge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. With a passion for helping leaders thrive in any environment, Clay brings valuable insights and real-world experience to this podcast and his ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠weekly email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more at ClayScroggins.com About Adam Tarnow: Adam Tarnow is a recovering CPA and now a partner at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PeopleWorks International⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where he heads the Leadership Development Practice. He is the co-author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Edge: How to Stand Out by Showing You're All In⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and shares his insights on leadership through his Substack, Beyond the Obvious. Learn more at AdamTarnow.com

When you hear “control freak,” what comes to mind? Probably someone who micromanages, hoards tasks, and drives everyone nuts. But what if the real issue isn’t being controlling—it’s trying to control everything? In this episode, we reclaim the term and explore what it means to become an Enlightened Control Freak—someone who’s focused, self-aware, and ruthlessly clear about what’s theirs to own. You’ll learn a simple 1-2-3 framework to help you: 1. Name what you want 2. Separate goals from desires 3. Control the controllable If you’re tired of being overwhelmed by things outside your control, this episode will show you a better path—one that leads to clarity, peace, and progress. Challenge: This week, make two lists—your goals and your desires—and ask: What can I control? About Clay Scroggins:  Clay Scroggins is a sought-after ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠speaker and leadership coach⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠known for his practical and engaging approach to leadership. He is the author of three books, most notably ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Lead When You're Not In Charge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. With a passion for helping leaders thrive in any environment, Clay brings valuable insights and real-world experience to this podcast and his ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠weekly email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more at ClayScroggins.com About Adam Tarnow: Adam Tarnow is a recovering CPA and now a partner at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PeopleWorks International⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where he heads the Leadership Development Practice. He is the co-author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Edge: How to Stand Out by Showing You're All In⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and shares his insights on leadership through his Substack, Beyond the Obvious. Learn more at AdamTarnow.com

Peter Drucker once wrote, “For development is always self-development.” In this episode, we unpack why that simple idea might be the most overlooked (and freeing) truth in the professional world. Clay and Adam explore: * Why so many people wait to be “developed” by their company or manager * The real reasons we resist taking initiative * What self-development actually looks like in everyday life * The role organizations should play (but often overplay) in your growth If you’ve ever felt stuck waiting for someone to invest in you, this episode is your reminder: development doesn’t require permission—it requires a posture. About Clay Scroggins:  Clay Scroggins is a sought-after ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠speaker and leadership coach⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠known for his practical and engaging approach to leadership. He is the author of three books, most notably ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Lead When You're Not In Charge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. With a passion for helping leaders thrive in any environment, Clay brings valuable insights and real-world experience to this podcast and his ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠weekly email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more at ClayScroggins.com About Adam Tarnow: Adam Tarnow is a recovering CPA and now a partner at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PeopleWorks International⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where he heads the Leadership Development Practice. He is the co-author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Edge: How to Stand Out by Showing You're All In⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and shares his insights on leadership through his Substack, Beyond the Obvious. Learn more at AdamTarnow.com