Continued Conversations with Kelsey Cally
Trigger Warning: in our conversation, we discuss themes around body image and evolving bodies. Please take care of yourselves as you listen and avoid if these topics might be triggering for you.
Everyone, please welcome Kelsey Cally to Continued Conversations! Kelsey and I met in an acting class here in Los Angeles, and she’s since moved back to Chicago, which is fun since I’d spent a few years in the city myself and adore it so much. Kelsey is a stunning actor, director, teacher, and human, and she has a lot to say about body image, especially when it comes to being an actor.
The way Kelsey works with her students to become present in their bodies and accept where they are right here, right now is powerful. She speaks about shifting the body narrative to one of joy and talks about the importance of representing other women who have our similar body types through our art, whether on stage or on screen. Kelsey’s story inspired me, and I hope that her thoughts and offerings inspire you too.
In our conversation, we discuss…
* Her earliest memories of body image were witnessing how her mother (who was a dancer) would speak about her own body and dealing with people commenting on her red hair and freckles
* Shifting the mindset that your body is your own and no longer letting other people’s opinions dictate what you do with it
* Sharing with others how you feel about your body might just be how we start to accept our bodies and find self-love
* Working with actors on self-acceptance and shifting the narrative to joy
* Representing other women who have similar body types to you onstage and on screen
* Understanding that, as women, our bodies are constantly shifting due to our cycle and our hormones and educating more people (and young people) about this
* Arriving to where you are, in your body and psyche, when performing
* Living in your imperfections, as an artist and a human
* Kelsey takes her responsibility of holding her position as a leader very seriously
* Understanding the power of your example when in a position of leadership, whether that’s as a mother or as a teacher or as a director
* Learning how to trust yourself in your artistry
* Using wardrobe as play
Kelsey does not hold her role as a leader lightly. She understands the power she holds when spearheading a project or mentoring a room of students and makes it a priority to set a good example. I’m just in awe at the way Kelsey moves about the world, as a person and an artist, and I cannot wait for you to hear our conversation!
“ I work a lot on the stage. I come from the world of stage. So you aren’t necessarily watching your own work, but you are being perceived, sometimes by a room of 30, sometimes by a room of thousands, depending on what you’re doing. So there has to be a level of acceptance of being perceived as well, which goes back to what you were talking about earlier of it’s not just snap your fingers and, ‘I accept myself, and here you go.’ And maybe it’s for some people, I don’t know, if it is for you, how exciting to have ease in that. But it’s a lot of work behind the scenes, and daily work behind the scenes, and it can look different all the time. Sometimes it’s an internal conversation with self, sometimes it’s journaling, sometimes it is consuming work that inspires you because you see a reflection of yourself. A lot of my work with students is, yeah, getting them to that level of allowance and acceptance in self. And then once we get there, arriving to character is that much more free.”
- Kelsey Cally
Below is a text insert of our conversation that stuck with me, starting at around the 28-minute and 33-second mark:
Kelsey Cally: Yeah, I’ll start by saying I take my position – and I even giggle as I say, a leader, because I feel as if I didn’t consciously choose this necessarily. I always say I fell into teaching. That’s what I tell people. I didn’t mean to be a teacher, but it accidentally happened, and I really love it so much. And with that, I take my responsibility of holding that position of leadership – now I’m getting emotional, my god. I take my responsibility of holding that position very seriously. Because I’m not really doing it for me. And what I mean by that is that I don’t crave control. I don’t crave, “I’m the most important person in this room. Everyone listen to me.” In fact, I reject that with my full being, and almost sometimes I have to be like, “Kelsey, you are the one holding the space for everyone, so you do kind of have to be in charge right now.” And I do when I’m in that space, I won’t make you feel like, “What am I doing?”
But so your question means a lot because I very consciously make sure – let me see. I have two parts to this. I very consciously choose my words about myself when I’m using myself as an example in class, which is often, mainly because I don’t wanna reflect anything to – I don’t want anyone to feel they have to be perfect. That’s the best way I can say it. And that starts by me, how I treat myself and how I show up too. So if I’m allowing myself not to be perfect in the space, it gives others freedom not to be perfect in the space. And again, I even hate that word “perfect,” necessarily. Maybe more if I’m accepting myself, where I am that day, in the space very openly, it gives everyone else freedom to accept themselves that way in that space very openly. And that is what is most important to me in the room I am in. I love the medium of acting and the craft, and that’s what I’ve done since I was six years old. I’ve been lucky enough to do it this long, and so, that is the thing I teach. I think, though, in any lifetime, I may have been a teacher. I don’t know if it’s always been acting, but I think in some sort of way, I’ve always been a teacher. It just has fallen on me naturally. So again, I take that very seriously, the example I’m setting.
And, like I said earlier, a ton of my conversation with people, especially in this medium, again, which is very physical, and we are often looking at ourselves and consuming our own work or being perceived by others, right? I work a lot on the stage. I come from the world of stage. So you aren’t necessarily watching your own work, but you are being perceived, sometimes by a room of 30, sometimes by a room of thousands, depending on what you’re doing. So there has to be a level of acceptance of being perceived as well, which goes back to what you were talking about earlier of it’s not just snap your fingers and I accept myself, and here you go. And maybe it is for some people, I don’t know. If it is for you, how exciting to have ease in that. But it’s a lot of work behind the scenes, and daily work behind the scenes, and it can look different all the time. Sometimes it’s an internal conversation with self. Sometimes it’s journaling. Sometimes it is consuming work that inspires you because you see a reflection of yourself.
So a lot of my work with students is, yeah, getting them to that level of allowance and acceptance in self. And then once we get there, arriving to character, is that much more free, or sometimes it could be the opposite way. Sometimes it could be a character that is first inspiring, and then the work is allowing yourself to assume that. Yeah, I hope that answered…
Megan Gill: Oh, absolutely. It’s so lovely. That was – yes, so beautiful. And there are a couple things here that are jumping out to me. First, the parallel between you setting the example for the people that you are working with and teaching and leading and directing, Ms. Leader, you’re just reminding me of the way that you, as a young person, you were looking at your mom and looking at her as the example, and not saying that one is good and one is bad at all, by any means, but that’s just really lovely parallel that’s jumping out to me. Wow, so much of it is just by example, and I even find myself in front of my friends and my people,
I am now aware of how I speak about myself.
Kelsey Cally: Yes.
Megan Gill: And even sometimes I’m joking, and I’ll say something – I said something joking about my booty last night, and my girlfriend that’s staying with me – Chloé Godard!
Kelsey Cally: Oh, Chloé!
Megan Gill: You know her! She’s staying with me right now, and she was like, “Do not talk about my friend that way.” And I was like – yeah, even at this point, my friends are calling me out if I’m even saying something in a very jokingly manner. But I too try to lead by example in the spaces that I’m in, because I do think it affects people, and I do think that negativity breeds more negativity and if we can just – I also hate the word positivity, but it’s if we can just speak with more kindness about our physical vessels, then hopefully the people that are around us are either taken aback by that like, “Hmm, maybe I should try that too,” or they just inadvertently take it in, and you just never know how it could impact people. So I think that is so wonderful.
Kelsey Cally: I don’t know why I just thought of this, but I’m reflecting back to a student. So for a minute, I was coaching a lot, and I still do, but there’s one pocket of time where I was coaching a lot of people for school auditions. A big age range. But this person I’m thinking of was, I believe, 16 when we started working together, and they were working towards college auditions. And also, this kind of applies to young college kids as well. Maybe you experienced this in musical theater, the “look,” right, that you have to have – this specific look when auditioning. I remember just never understanding that, really. I don’t know, when I don’t understand things, then sometimes I’m just like, “Meh, I’m not gonna do it,” me personally. But this was early on in my coaching career, and I was working with this young person, and they were reflecting back to me something they had learned from another coach or another teacher about, “When I audition, I have to wear an A-line dress and heels or whatever and their hair in a certain way. I can think back to the era of 2013, and it was a very specific style dress and…
Megan Gill: Literally yes. I’m having flashbacks.
Kelsey Cally: You know what I mean? I’m pretty sure you’ve talked about this before.
Megan Gill: Yep.
Kelsey Cally: And I remember just talking about this young person, I remember looking them dead in the eye, and I was like, “You don’t have to do that.” And they were like, “What?” And they were so young, and everything older people said was so impactful to them, which is why it is so important to understand the power your words have when you’re working in that way, or your actions have when you’re coaching, teaching, or working with people, really of any age demographic, but especially a young mind that is still developing.
So I remember looking at them and being like, “Listen, you don’t – I understand someone gave you the advice of maybe what a trend is in dress for this, but do you like it? Do you like wearing it? Does it feel good in your body, or do you feel worse and more self-conscious, and it’s not – ?” I remember seeing a physical shift in them that I released them from this box that someone else had prescribed for them of you have to do this. You don’t, especially in the world of art, of self-expression, of creation, you get to decide what looks you have. You get to decide what feels good on your body, what songs you want to sing, what characters you wanna play, you know, what you say yes to, what you say no to. You design this for yourself, and I know there are a lot of things, implanting different opinions, whether it be trends you said or society or whatever it is that might be suggesting something different that can be really easy to listen to and let influence you, but you get to decide.
And I know they shifted to putting on an outfit that felt more comfortable, that brought ease, right, that allowed them to showcase themselves as they were. And also they were in a place, in an age of finding themselves, too. So it felt like taking someone else’s opinion and putting something on that was not themselves. So that was a learning lesson for myself too, of just reminding myself that, if we’re going back to leadership, that within that role of leadership, you can say, “Be yourself!” and influence someone else to be themselves. “Your opinion matters the most, not mine. Even though I may be in the position of your teacher right now, or you are auditioning for a panel of directors, schools, or casting, or whatever, your opinion about yourself still matters the most.”
And sometimes you have to dig through that opinion of if it really is like, “Is this opinion coming from other influences of something, or do I really feel this?” And then I’ll give you the next step, okay, yeah, this feels good. Let’s keep exploring this. Maybe this will take me to the next thing that I love. And then the next thing. And then the next thing. I think that’s the only way to move as an artist, is from self.
Megan Gill: Gosh, that’s beautiful. Truly stunning way to put all of that. Oh! Yeah, because we have to learn to trust ourselves, specifically as artists. And god, there’s just so much nuance in that, in learning how to listen to yourself, how to trust yourself. It took me years.
Kelsey Cally: Yeah.
Megan Gill: And it’s really beautiful when it does start to happen. And when you are able to be like, “Oh, that’s what I want to wear for this audition,” because girl, yes, I was in peak music theater, jewel-toned dress. Not that I wouldn’t have worn a dress in heels or a skirt and heels, but I remember when I moved to Chicago, I finally gave myself permission to wear different things to auditions, and it just felt so – I was able to connect with my work more, and if we’re not doing that, what the hell are we doing?
Kelsey Cally: And it offers to the sense of play too. I talk about this in class quite often as well. Don’t put on your body what you think someone else might like. First, start with what do you like, and then look at the character, look at the script, look at the influence of the text. Is there something in here that inspires you to go to your closet and pick out that sweater or go to your jewelry and pick out that pair of earrings? Going back to this show, I understudied this past fall, I had a whole day where I was looking through my clothes, and I was like, “Oh, my gosh, Sherry would wear this and this and this!” And that was just a personal, fun play for me. I didn’t even wear any of it in the show. We had an amazing costume designer, so that was handled, but it was more just for my own play. And I don’t know, I think of myself like, “Okay, if I were looking at everything, what would someone else, what would someone else? I dunno. I dunno.” And there is room to want to appease other people. That isn’t inherently a bad thing, but I don’t know. Just start with yourself. I think that’s the first place you have to start. “What do I like?”
Megan Gill: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because then it also helps cultivate your own personal opinions, which is something that I didn’t realize until I was in my late twenties, probably. “I don’t really have – I have opinions, but I really want to refine my opinions and get to know them and understand them and lean into them across the board as a person.” And that just opened so many doors for me, as a human and as an artist, and to understand that it’s good to have opinions, and it’s good to bring that into your work and into your life. And that’s just another thing that makes us all different. And the clothes that you’re gonna pick out for the role of young mom are gonna be different than the ones I pick out for the role of young mom. And also, how fun is that to just get to play into that? Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey Cally: Yes, absolutely!
Megan Gill: It’s more enjoyable. There’s more joy than thinking…
Kelsey Cally: This craft is hard enough, so why would you make it any harder on yourself?
Megan Gill: Yes. It’s so true! Kelsey, is there anything else that you want to chat about or bring to the conversation?
Kelsey Cally: Let me think. Let me think.
Megan Gill: Loaded question, I know.
Kelsey Cally: Yeah, no, I just, I go back to – I talk to every – when I’m talking about this craft with students or friends or whatnot, I always talk about how your body is your tool. This is what we have: this body, whatever voice you have, is what you get to use. And each of us has vastly different access to our tools, and the work is understanding that access, too, of what it can do, how I can use it, and what that work is connecting, moving.
If I had advice for someone who’s like, I dunno, either is already an actor, is wanting to be an actor: know your body, hug your body, move your body, love your body, understand your body. Your voice is included in that as well. But do things that bring joy for the body. I was talking about dance earlier. There could have been a world where I made that my profession, and I thought – and I probably, because I saw what my mom dealt with in her career, maybe that influenced me not to make it my profession, because it is really difficult. But I remember there was a time where I was like, “I’m doing this for fun because it feels good, because every time I dance, I’m happy. I feel energetic, I feel buzzy in my body. My brain is probably doing, you know, some amazing chemical things that are making me feel elated. So therefore, I’m going to keep doing it. There could be a world where I look at myself, and I say, “That isn’t perfect,” or “I’m not moving that,” or “My body should shift in that way.” And in that way, I lose the joy of what the thing is in the first place.
o move your body, relate to your body in ways that bring you joy, truly. Yeah. And I think, therefore, you deepen your understanding of your tool and can use it more efficiently in your craft and in your play and in your expression.
Megan Gill: Oh, it’s so beautiful. It’s so beautiful because it’s so true, because we’re each so different that my tools are gonna be – maybe we have some crossover, but they’re gonna be overall different from your tools, from her tools, from her tools. And it’s if that isn’t the beautiful thing about the world and us being each individual people, then what are we doing here? We’re just clones. How boring.
“I love smiling at people. That’s the best way I can say it. I love looking people in the eye and giving them a smile. And I’ll add to this: I love my arms that embrace and hold people tight like this, and I can give them a big squeeze. And I think those three things in tandem are my favorite thing about my body.”
- Kelsey Cally
Kelsey Cally is a Chicago-based actor, teacher, and director. Kelsey is founder and owner of Fifth Wall Artistry, where she works with actors from all over the world on deepening their craft. She holds an MFA in Acting from UC Irvine and a BA in Theatre Performance with a minor in Dance from Western Michigan University. Kelsey records a weekly Kids Radio Hour as a volunteer for Vocal Point Georgia Radio, where she shares her love of storytelling with young listeners. She was recently in Factory Theatres’ production of The Sporting Life and Remy Bumppo Theatre Company’s production of Hedda Gabler. She is committed to thoughtful, dynamic work onstage and in the classroom.
Follow Kelsey on Instagram [http://www.instagram.com/kelsmcally]
Work with Kelsey and Fifth Wall Artistry! [http://www.instagram.com/fifthwallartistry]
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A couple of notes to ensure this is a safe space for my guests to share their intimate and vulnerable body image stories in:
* These conversations are quite nuanced, complex, and oftentimes very vulnerable. Remember that everyone has their own body image story, and while someone else’s might look differently than yours, I encourage you to keep an open mind and stay empathetic.
* That being said, I welcome your support of my guests in the comments. Please be kind and considerate with your words.
* Thank you for being here. By sharing this type of content, my hope is to inspire collective reflection and cultural questioning. Thank you for supporting me in exploring the effects of our society’s beauty norms and body standards on human beings existing in today’s world.
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While I’m not a licensed therapist, registered dietician, or medical health professional and cannot speak to body image topics from a clinical, trauma-informed place, I am an expert of lived experience. I’m an academic of my own body, and I’m passionate about facilitating conversations with other humans about their relationships with their bodies. I believe it’s important to continue conversations about healthy body image in creative spaces as a means to heal individuals as well as the collective whole. But just know the information presented in this medium is not professional mental health advice or medical advice, and any questions or concerns you have should always be directed to your health providers.
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