Religion To Reality

Bonus: CARA Research with Fr. Tom Gaunt, SJ

QUICK SUMMARY What does the data actually say about how Catholics live their faith today, and who counts as "active"? In this episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with Fr. Thomas Gaunt, SJ, Executive Director of CARA (the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate) at Georgetown University, to dig into 60 years of Catholic research. They explore why inactive Catholics still fiercely identify as Catholic, what a year of volunteer service does to marriage stability and vocations, and why radical listening—not big campaigns—may be the most powerful tool the Church has. If you work in parish ministry, Catholic education, or simply want to understand the real state of the faith in America, this conversation will challenge and inspire you.  IN THIS BONUS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE * Why 30% of self-identified Catholics never attend Mass, yet refuse to stop calling themselves Catholic * CARA's consistent finding that "care for the poor" ranks #2 in what Catholics say defines their faith * The surprising discovery that 60% of young adult Catholics (18–35) are involved in faith-based activities outside Mass * Why the divorce rate among Jesuit Volunteer Corps alumni was 2% vs. ~12% for comparable peers * How 10–11% of male Catholic volunteers later entered seminary or religious life * The massive demographic churn in the Catholic population, including that 1 in 4 U.S. Catholics is a foreign-born immigrant * Why parish revitalization campaigns need to first ask the parish itself to change * How radical welcome (e.g., parking lot ministers, easy websites, a real person answering the phone) does more than any grand strategy * What Pope Francis's "arm around the shoulder" posture means for pastoral leadership * Why listening without an agenda may be the most prophetic Christian witness in an age of polarization ABOUT FR. THOMAS GAUNT, SJ Fr. Thomas Gaunt is a Jesuit priest with 53 years in the Society of Jesus and 43 years of ordained ministry. He holds a doctoral degree in city planning from the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill — making him a proud Tar Heel. He spent his early priesthood as a pastor and Director of Planning for the Diocese of Charlotte, NC, before serving as Formation Director for the Jesuits of the East and Executive Secretary of the Jesuit national office. For the past 14 years, he has served as Executive Director of CARA — the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate — located at Georgetown University in Washington, DC. His research specialties include priesthood and religious life, the impact of volunteer service on young adults, and international Catholic research. RESOURCES MENTIONED * CARA — Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate [https://cara.georgetown.edu] * The CARA Report (Substack) [https://substack.com/@caraatgeorgetown] * CARA Book: Faith and Spiritual Life of Young Adult Catholics [https://cara.georgetown.edu] * Catholic Volunteer Network [https://catholicvolunteernetwork.org] * Jesuit Volunteer Corps [https://jesuitvolunteers.org] * Nativity Parish / Rebuilt (Timonium, MD) [https://nativitybody.com] * Vinea Research (Hans Plate) [https://vineagroup.com] * Religion to Reality — DeSales Media Discipleship Study [https://religiontoreality.org]  MEMORABLE QUOTE "The most radical way to live the Christian life right now is to become a listener without an agenda." — Fr. John Gribowich EPISODE TIMESTAMPS Use these timestamps to jump to the moments that matter most to you: * [00:00:00] Introduction — Fr. Tom Gaunt introduces himself: 53 years as a Jesuit, 43 as a priest, doctoral degree in city planning from UNC Chapel Hill, and 14 years as Executive Director of CARA. * [00:02:30] What is the CARA Report? — A 30-year-old quarterly publication targeting bishops, pastors, and parish leaders. Available in print and on Substack. CARA itself just celebrated its 60th anniversary. * [00:04:00] Discipleship & Expressive Fruits — Dave and Fr. Tom discuss the DeSales Media discipleship study findings around corporal and spiritual works of mercy, and how question framing affects data interpretation. * [00:06:30] Care for the Poor as a Catholic Value — CARA data shows "care for the poor" consistently ranks #2 in what Catholics say matters most about their faith — across all Mass attendance levels. * [00:08:00] Segmenting Active vs. Inactive Catholics — How CARA defines "active" Catholics and what happens to faith-related attitudes as Mass attendance decreases (but doesn't disappear). * [00:10:00] The Catholic Identity Paradox — Why ~30% of self-identified Catholics never attend Mass, yet still firmly call themselves Catholic — and how this differs sharply from Protestant denominations. * [00:13:00] "It's in the Water" — Fr. John reflects on his high school students in San Francisco who write about their Catholic identity even though they don't practice. What makes the indelible mark truly indelible? * [00:15:00] Young Adult Catholics & Mass Attendance — CARA's national survey of 18–35-year-olds found regular Mass attendance around 15%, but 60% reported being involved in other faith-based activities. A stunning finding. * [00:17:30] Why Young People Don't Come to Mass — Schedule, boredom, not feeling welcome. And a generational shift: many younger Catholics no longer see weekly Mass as an obligation of faith. * [00:20:00] Belonging, Welcome, and Parish Mobility — One in four U.S. Catholics is a foreign-born immigrant. There has been a massive movement of Catholics from northeast/midwest to south and west. Parishes must be dynamically welcoming communities, not stable ones. * [00:23:30] The Eucharist as Community — Fr. Tom and Fr. John explore the danger of individualizing the sacraments and whether Catholics understand Mass as a communal celebration rather than a personal spiritual transaction. * [00:26:00] Reviewing the DeSales Study — Fr. Tom notes the study skews female, older, white, and more politically conservative than the general Mass-attending Catholic population — important context for interpreting results. * [00:31:30] Volunteer Service Research — CARA's landmark studies on the Jesuit Volunteer Corps and the Catholic Volunteer Network: what one year of service does to a person a decade or two later. * [00:33:00] Prayer, Reflection, and Community — The two elements from volunteer service that remained most significant ten and twenty years later: structured prayer/reflection and community experience. * [00:34:30] The Marriage Stability Finding — Among former Jesuit volunteers, the divorce rate was just 2% vs. ~12% for peers with similar education and demographics. Replicated across multiple independent studies. Two explanations: learning to live simply and value clarity. * [00:38:30] Vocations from Volunteer Programs — In the Catholic Volunteer Network study across 60+ groups: 2% of women had entered a novitiate; 10–11% of men had entered a seminary or novitiate. Fr. Tom's advice to Archbishop Kurtz: visit volunteer communities and encourage vocations. * [00:44:00] Self-Selection and Faith Engagement — Volunteers are already generous, faith-serious young adults. Their Mass attendance (50%+) far exceeds their peers (~25%). Volunteer service strengthens what is already there. * [00:45:00] The Implication of Shifting Catholic Identity — If Catholics increasingly define active faith through service rather than Sunday Mass, what does the future Church look like? Fr. Tom: "In the long run, not good" — but the solution is welcome and inclusion, not judgment. * [00:46:00] Parish Campaigns That Ask Us to Change — Fr. Tom's rule: if a revitalization campaign doesn't ask the parish itself to change, he's suspicious of it. Rebuilt parish (Nativity in Timonium, MD) as a model of radical welcome, including parking lot ministers. * [00:48:30] Meeting Catholics Where They Are — Stories from North Carolina of Spanish-language Masses for field workers, and Houston parishes overwhelmed with young transplant families who quietly slip away due to friction, not rejection. * [00:53:30] The Customer Journey of Faith — Meeting people at every touchpoint: the parking lot, the phone call, the website. Fr. John: pastoral infrastructure failures (hard-to-find pastor info, unclear websites) drive people away. * [00:55:00] "Does the Campaign Ask Me to Change?" — Dave reflects on how this posture of internal conversion is rare — and only works in a context of trust and genuine community. * [00:56:30] Listening as Research — Fr. Tom on CARA's approach: no agenda, just data. How post-research Zoom sessions with bishops and parish staffs generate the richest pastoral conversations — when the researchers simply listen to what people make of the findings. * [01:00:00] Ash Wednesday & the Thin Thread of Identity — Even non-attending Catholics show up for ashes. Rather than dismissing this, Fr. Tom sees it as pastoral data: the thread of identity is real and worth engaging. * [01:01:00] Radical Listening as the Prophetic Act — Fr. John's synthesis: in an age of polarization, listening without agenda — in research, in parish life, in relationships — may be the most distinctly Christian witness available right now. * [01:02:00] Pope Francis and the Arm Around the Shoulder — Fr. Tom on the posture Francis models: not pointing fingers, but walking alongside. Doctrine doesn't change, but the relational posture changes everything. * [01:03:00] CARA's Credibility — Built over 60 years by not advocating. Church leaders across the spectrum trust CARA precisely because the data comes without spin. Hans Plate of Vinea Research affirms this quality. * [01:07:00] Baptism Is Real — Even Catholics who never attend church intuitively know: if they call the parish, someone will come. That thin but enduring thread of belonging — rooted in baptism — is something the Church uniquely offers. * [01:08:30] Closing — Outro with information on subscribing, ratings, reviews, and visiting religiontoreality.org.   CONNECT WITH US Visit our website: religiontoreality.org  Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Follow us on social media.  Leave us a rating and review—it helps others discover the show! Send us your questions and feedback to podcast@desalesmedia.org [podcast@desalesmedia.org]. Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.

Bonus: The Catholic Project with Stephen White

QUICK SUMMARY What does hard data reveal about the state of Catholic life in America—and what does it mean for the future of the Church? In this bonus episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with Stephen White, Executive Director of The Catholic Project at The Catholic University of America, for a candid and wide-ranging conversation. Stephen draws on the landmark 2022 National Study of Catholic Priests—the largest priest survey in half a century—to explore trust, identity, community, and what it really takes to renew the Church from within. From the tension between clericalism and lay vocation, to the striking generational shifts among young priests, to the question of how genuine renewal actually happens in Church history, this episode offers both serious analysis and hopeful insight. Whether you’re a priest, a committed lay Catholic, or simply trying to understand where the Church is headed, this conversation will challenge and encourage you.  ABOUT STEPHEN WHITE Stephen White is the Executive Director of The Catholic Project [https://catholicproject.catholic.edu] at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC. Founded in 2019 in response to the clerical abuse crisis, The Catholic Project works to foster collaboration and co-responsibility between clergy and laity. Stephen led the production of the acclaimed documentary podcast Crisis: Clergy Abuse in the Catholic Church and oversaw the 2022 National Study of Catholic Priests. His background is in Catholic social teaching and philosophy, and he writes frequently on matters of faith, culture, and Church life. IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE 1. The Catholic Project and the Crisis Podcast * Founded in 2019 at Catholic University of America in response to the McCarrick revelations and Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report * The Crisis podcast was produced during COVID, featuring deeply reported audio documentary-style episodes * Goal: face the Church’s failures honestly while remaining constructive and rooted in love for the Church * Fr. John shares that the podcast was part of his own healing journey as a survivor of clerical sexual abuse 2. The 2022 National Study of Catholic Priests * The largest survey of priests in the United States in over 50 years * Key findings include: * Younger priests (ordained post-2000) describe themselves as significantly more theologically orthodox than older cohorts * Younger priests are more likely to identify as politically moderate — cutting against simple “conservative priest” narratives * The youngest cohort is the most racially and ethnically diverse * There has been a dramatic collapse in priests identifying as liberal or progressive * Younger priests experience more isolation: many are sole pastor of a parish from day one of ordination * A follow-up longitudinal study is currently in development for spring 2025 3. Clericalism, Authority, and Church Renewal * Clericalism is not only a top-down problem — bottom-up clericalism (laity expecting clergy to do everything) is widespread in the US * Pope Francis has simultaneously called out clericalism and warned against “clericalizing the laity” * All authority carries the potential for abuse; the response is vigilance, formation, and accountability — not the elimination of hierarchy * The Church’s vertical (hierarchical) and horizontal (communal) dimensions must work together 4. How Genuine Church Renewal Happens * Historically, renewal almost never comes from the top down institutionally * It begins with one person or small group responding radically to the Gospel (e.g., St. Francis, St. Ignatius) * The person responding faithfully rarely sees the full fruit of their response — God builds from there * Activism and discipleship must not be confused; the foundation is faithful response, not organizational strategy 5. Compartmentalized Faith and Transactional Spirituality * R2R study finding: Mass-attending Catholics rate themselves strongest in sacramental life and weakest in “expressive fruits” — corporal and spiritual works of mercy * Stephen identifies a “drive-thru sacrament factory” model of parish life as a root cause * Parishes are often transaction points rather than communities of formation * The solution requires formation that integrates the sacramental life with active charity and mission 6. Family as the Primary Formative Institution * The family has historically been the most decisive place of Catholic formation * Seminary training and CCD are insufficient on their own — the intuitive transmission of faith happens at home * Current weakness of the family is one of the most underappreciated crises in the Church * The same challenges facing priestly formation are deeply connected to challenges in family formation  7. Generational Dynamics and Faith Sharing * R2R study finding: Younger Catholics are more likely to cite barriers to sharing their faith * Top barriers among younger generations: situational appropriateness, lack of confidence, not knowing how to start conversations, fear of offending * This mirrors interpersonal skill gaps noted among younger seminary candidates — a generational, not just ecclesial, challenge * Younger Catholics also show a stronger desire for in-person community despite being the “digital generation” 8. Community: What It Is and Isn’t * True community is not built around shared content — it uses content as a starting point for gathering real people * Stephen’s book club example: the books rotate, but the community of Catholic dads is the constant * Digital and online communities have real value but are limited replacements for in-person, face-to-face belonging * The goal of intentional faith communities is to create environments where virtue becomes habitual — not a constant max-effort struggle TOPICS BY TIMECODE * [00:00] Introduction — Dave and Fr. John welcome Stephen White and introduce the Catholic Project * [01:00] The founding of the Catholic Project in 2019 — responding to the abuse crisis under CUA president John Garvey * [02:30] Building the Crisis podcast during COVID — the challenge, the team, and why it mattered * [07:30] John shares his personal story as a survivor of clerical sexual abuse and how the Crisis podcast contributed to his own healing * [10:00] Connecting the abuse crisis to the 2022 Priests Study — generational trends and the conservative shift in seminarians * [11:00] John raises a key concern: Does a clerically-centric, theologically orthodox Church inadvertently enable abuse and power imbalances? * [12:30] Stephen’s response: All authority can be abused — the answer is vigilance, not eliminating hierarchy * [14:00] Pope Francis, clericalism, and the call to not “clerical­ize the laity” — the vertical and horizontal dimensions of Church structure * [16:30] John: Feeling “homeless” in a Church polarized between traditionalism and progressivism * [18:00] What does authentic renewal look like? Historical examples: St. Francis of Assisi and St. Ignatius of Loyola * [21:00] The danger of top-down institutional reform — why genuine renewal almost always comes from below * [24:00] Discipleship vs. activism: The risk of “professionalizing” Catholic identity * [26:30] Bottom-up clericalism: How lay Catholics can inadvertently perpetuate the problem by expecting clergy to do all the work * [29:00] Transactional spirituality and the sacramental model — why the compartmentalized faith life persists * [31:00] Connecting the R2R study findings: Catholics feel strong in sacramental life but weakest in “expressive fruits” — works of charity and mercy * [33:00] Formation, vocation, and the role of family as the primary formative institution in the Church * [38:00] John departs; Dave and Stephen continue on community, parish engagement, and the Assemblies of God comparison * [41:00] Stephen and his wife raising four children — the role of intentional faith communities in everyday family life * [43:00] Virtue, habit, and the goal of “lower effort” discipleship over time * [46:00] The risk of insularity: Building a faith community without becoming a bubble * [49:00] Comparing the R2R and Catholic Project studies: Generational differences in community desire, faith sharing barriers, and interpersonal skills * [52:00] Young priests and isolation: How shrinking numbers mean more priests are now solo pastors from day one * [54:00] Generational data on priests: Younger cohorts are more orthodox, more politically moderate, and more racially diverse * [55:30] Why are progressive or liberal men less likely to enter the priesthood today? Dave’s theory on political identity and vocations * [58:00] Gen Z priests and interpersonal skill gaps — and what this reveals about broader formation challenges for young men * [1:02:00] R2R study finding: Younger generations report more barriers to sharing their faith — lack of confidence, social skills, and fear of offending * [1:04:00] What priests wish their bishops would do differently — and why “one size fits all” pastoral approaches fail * [1:07:00] The importance of personal prayer and discernment as the foundation beneath any program or system * [1:08:00] How the Catholic Project communicated its study data — lessons in releasing findings in digestible, engaging formats * [1:12:00] Why a podcast? The case for long-form audio documentary as the right vehicle for the abuse crisis story * [1:16:00] Unanswered questions: What Stephen most wants to know about Catholic life in America * [1:18:00] What kinds of cultures and communities tend to produce healthy vocations — to priesthood and to marriage * [1:20:00] The significance of the “fencesitter” Catholic: the 11% attending monthly but not weekly * [1:23:00] Jesuit Volunteer Corps data: 98% of participants who marry stay married * [1:24:00] Digital vs. in-person community: Stephen’s honest skepticism about online faith communities * [1:28:00] Book clubs, real community, and why shared content is a starting point, not the foundation * [1:30:00] Closing reflections and sign-off RESOURCES & LINKS * The Catholic Project at The Catholic University of America [https://catholicproject.catholic.edu] * Crisis: Clergy Abuse in the Catholic Church — Podcast [https://crisisthepodcast.com] * National Study of Catholic Priests (2022) [https://catholicproject.catholic.edu/national-study-of-catholic-priests/] * Religion to Reality — Full Research Report [https://religiontoreality.org] * Jesuit Volunteer Corps: jesuitvolunteers.org [https://jesuitvolunteers.org] * Pew Research on Catholic Mass attendance in the US  CONNECT WITH US  Visit our website: religiontoreality.org Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Follow us on social media. Leave us a rating and review—it helps others discover the show! Send us your questions and feedback. Learn more about our work: Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.

Season 2 Teaser: Sacred Listening Across Faith Traditions

Season 2 of Religion to Reality is on the horizon—and it begins with a simple but urgent question: what does it mean to truly listen? In a world marked by noise, division, and constant distraction, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich return to the heart of the podcast’s mission: living an integrated life where faith isn’t separated from the rest of who we are. Reflecting on Season 1, they explore how one theme kept surfacing again and again—listening as a sacred act. This upcoming season builds on that foundation, asking: How do we become bridge builders with no agenda? How do we recognize God already at work in the person in front of us? Inspired by the spirit of Vatican II and the Church’s call to encounter and dialogue, Season 2 features conversations with voices across Christian communities and other faith traditions—not to debate or convert, but to listen. New episodes begin June 1, with weekly releases every Monday.

Bonus: The Needs of the Church with Fr. Joseph Gibino

QUICK SUMMARY What does it really mean for the Church to walk together — and what do Catholics in Brooklyn actually say they need? Fr. Joseph Gibino, pastor, vicar, deacon director, and co-director of Brooklyn's Synod on Synodality, pulls back the curtain on what the faithful are really asking for, and why the answer might surprise you. From family prayer to sacramental living to the radical act of listening without an agenda, this conversation is a hopeful, grounded look at where the Church is headed. IN THIS BONUS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE * "The synod was never about divisive political issues — it was about how we journey together as the Body of Christ." (00:05:30) * The three things Catholics in Brooklyn said they needed most — and how they mirror what the English-speaking world was saying (00:02:30) * Why Fr. Joe says "listen" and "silent" share the same letters — and what that means for the Church (00:11:00) * How family catechesis could be the key to reinvigorating the institutional Church (00:16:00) * The simple prayer Fr. Joe says every morning before his feet hit the floor (00:37:30) * Why today's teenagers love service — and what that tells us about where the Spirit is moving (00:44:30) * Fr. John Gribowich on why we're in a "liminal" moment in Church history — and Fr. Joe's stunning response (00:57:00) * "The Eucharist is not a reward for good behavior." What it really is — and why that changes everything (00:59:30) ABOUT FR. JOE GIBINO Fr. Joseph Gibino is pastor of St. Charles Borromeo Parish in Brooklyn Heights and administrator of St. James Cathedral. He serves the Diocese of Brooklyn as Vicar for Evangelization and Catechesis, Director of the Permanent Diaconate Program, and co-directed the Diocese's Synod on Synodality alongside Sister Mary Ann Seton LoPiccolo. He is also adjunct faculty at St. Joseph's Seminary and — by his own description — the diocese's chief "party planner" and wildfire put-outer. RESOURCES MENTIONED * Synod on Synodality – Vatican Overview [https://www.synod.va/en.html] * Diocese of Brooklyn [https://www.dioceseofbrooklyn.org/] * Jubilee of Hope 2025 – Vatican [https://www.iubilaeum2025.va/en.html] * Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe [https://www.usccb.org/our-lady-of-guadalupe] — referenced in the context of Latino Catholic communities shaping Brooklyn's pastoral identity * Ignatian Examen (Nightly Examination of Conscience) [https://www.ignatianspirituality.com/ignatian-prayer/the-examen/] — recommended by Fr. Joe as a nightly practice * Neocatechumenal Way [https://neocatechumenaleiter.org/en/] / ecclesial movements are mentioned as models for family faith formation * Knights of Columbus [https://www.kofc.org/] — highlighted for their service work during the pandemic and with immigrant communities in Brooklyn Start Praying as a Family — Where to Begin Fr. Joe offers this simple on-ramp for families who feel disconnected from faith at home: * Start with gratitude, not religion: "What are we thankful for today?" * Try an Advent giving jar — brainstorm 30 simple acts of generosity as a family before December 1st * Don't underestimate small acts: donating a meal's worth of money to a food bank, buying tube socks for a homeless shelter * Evaluate at Christmas: How did we do? The Three Things Brooklyn Catholics Said They Need 1. Better adult faith formation — people don't feel equipped to share their faith 2. More support for youth and young adult faith formation 3. Greater collaboration and consultation with the clergy MEMORABLE QUOTE "The fruit of good listening is the Holy Spirit — because until we drown out all the other voices, how can we hear the authentic voice of the Spirit?" — Fr. Joe Gibino (00:13:00) CONNECT WITH US Visit our website: religiontoreality.org [https://religiontoreality.org]  Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Follow us on social media.  Leave us a rating and review—it helps others discover the show! Send us your questions and feedback to podcast@desalesmedia.org [podcast@desalesmedia.org]. Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.

Bonus: Listening, Trust, and the Future of Faith with Josh Packard

QUICK SUMMARY: What if the biggest obstacle to ministry isn't a lack of resources, programs, or content — but a missing system for actually knowing the people in front of you? In this bonus episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with Josh Packard, sociologist of religion and co-founder of Future of Faith, for a wide-ranging conversation about one of the most urgent challenges facing the Church today: how to do genuine relational ministry at scale. Drawing on years of research data and his experience at Spring Tide Research Institute and NCEA, Josh explains why trust in institutions is collapsing — and why the only antidote is time spent in a real, consistent relationship. He introduces practical tools anyone can download free at futureoffaith.org, shares why Gen Z isn't "leaving the church" (their parents already did), and makes a compelling case for why AI will only make human connection more, not less, essential. If you work in ministry, Catholic education, or any field that depends on reaching young people, this episode is required listening. ABOUT JOSH PACKARD Josh Packard is a sociologist of religion and a former professor at the University of Northern Colorado, where he taught applied sociology. He was the founding executive director of Spring Tide Research Institute, one of the most respected sources of data on youth and faith in the United States. He is now co-founder of Future of Faith, a nonprofit dedicated to helping ministry leaders build scalable relational tools grounded in a theology of sacred listening.   IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE: 1. Trust has collapsed — and that changes everything 2. Relational ministry needs a system, not just good intentions 3. The Text to Connect tool 4. Belonging before believing — and time before truth 5. Gen Z didn't leave — they were never there 6. The Church's strongest offering may be its most overlooked 7. AI will deepen — not solve — the relational challenge   * 0:00 — Introduction: Who is Josh Packard, and what is Future of Faith? * 2:15 — The Core Problem: How do you do relational ministry at scale when people only trust what's right in front of them? * 5:30 — The Free Tools: What the Future of Faith listening tools are and how to download them at futureoffaith.org. * 10:30 — Text to Connect: A step-by-step walkthrough of the emoji-based check-in tool — and how a color-coded Google Sheet can transform youth ministry. * 14:00 — The Youth Minister's Dilemma: A real-world portrait of a minister running on voice memos, Apple Notes, and reactive attention. * 20:00 — Sacred Listening vs. Ministry with an Agenda: John challenges Josh: can you really listen without an end in mind? * 23:30 — Time, Trust, Truth: The framework that flips the church's traditional approach: belonging before believing. * .31:00 — Tarot, Crystals, and the Spiritual-but-not-Religious: Why young people are finding spiritual systems on TikTok that the Church hasn't figured out how to offer. * 39:00 — Young People Aren't Leaving the Church: Josh pushes back: their parents left. The generation the Church is trying to reach was never there. * 42:00 — The Church Is Answering Questions Nobody Is Asking: John on the disconnect between pulpit priorities and what young people actually need. * 57:00 — AI and the Future of Trust: Why artificial intelligence will push the locus of trust lower — toward one-on-one relationships — and what that means for the Church.   MEMORABLE QUOTES For sharing on social media or in your community:   "I want to be useful, not interesting. — Josh Packard" "Belonging comes before believing. It goes time, trust, truth. — Josh Packard" "The church is often answering questions that nobody is asking. — Fr. John" "They're not leaving the church. Their parents left. — Josh Packard" "There are armies of PhDs who are not trying to make Instagram better. They're trying to make you look at Instagram more. — Josh Packard" "If we spend enough time with you, if we get to know you, if we're in a relationship with you, we can build trust with you — and then I can get to share with you the truth that is so beautiful that I want you to know. — Josh Packard"    RESOURCES & LINKS   Future of Faith futureoffaith.org [futureoffaith.org] Sign up for the newsletter to receive updates on new tools and research. (Josh guarantees it will contain the most emojis of any newsletter you receive this year.)   ORGANIZATIONS MENTIONED * Spring Tide Research Institute — National data on youth and faith * NCEA — National Catholic Educational Association * Rooted Good / Gone for Good — Church property reinvention (Mark Elson) [https://rootedgood.org] * Bricks and Mortals — Sacred spaces reimagined (Kate Toth, New York City) [https://www.bricksandmortals.org] * Young Life — Parachurch outreach model, including the folding table approach * Hallow — Catholic prayer and meditation app [https://hallow.com] * com — Interdenominational prayer app [https://pray.com]   RESEARCH REFERENCED * National Study of Youth and Religion (Christian Smith, Notre Dame) — Source of the "moralistic therapeutic deism" framework * Future of Faith listening and faith formation study — results forthcoming January 2025 * DeSales Media Discipleship Study — referenced throughout, showing Gen Z's desire for in-person community and lower rates of personal prayer   PEOPLE MENTIONED * Megan Bissell — Co-founder, Future of Faith * Kedrin (Potter's House, Dallas) — Developer of the time/trust/truth framework * Alessandro — Upcoming guest on the Religion to Reality webinar series * Shannon Hopkins — Key figure at Rooted Good with UK church experience   CONNECT WITH US   Visit our website: religiontoreality.org [religiontoreality.org] Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform Follow us on social media  Leave us a rating and review—it helps others discover the show! Send us your questions and feedback   Learn more about our work: Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.