The Jewish Jesus with Amy-Jill Levine

The Jewish Jesus with Amy-Jill Levine

QUICK SUMMARY What does it mean to take the Incarnation seriously? According to AJ Levine, one of the most respected scholars of New Testament and Jewish Studies in the world, it means taking seriously the time, the place, and the people who first told those stories, and that starts with understanding the Jewish Jesus. In this episode, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with AJ Levine for a conversation that is by turns surprising, funny, and deeply illuminating. Whether you're a lifelong Christian, a curious skeptic, or someone navigating the space between traditions, this episode will change the way you read the Gospels. IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE * How a seven-year-old Jewish girl decided to attend catechism and why it launched a career * Why understanding Jesus's Jewish identity is actually a matter of Christian doctrine * The woman at the well: why she's not a sinner, and why that matters * The Parable of the Prodigal Son, and why making Judaism the villain misses the entire point * What "Abba" actually means (and what it doesn't) * How the same parable reads completely differently in Russia, Australia, Kenya, and the U.S. * Why true interfaith dialogue requires disagreement — not a "kumbaya moment" * What AJ does while listening to podcasts (it involves knitting) ABOUT AMY JILL LEVINE AJ Levine is Rabbi Stanley M. Kessler Distinguished Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies at Hartford International University for Religion and Peace, and University Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies and Mary Jane Worthen Professor of Jewish Studies Emerita at Vanderbilt University. She is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, recipient of the Seelisberg Prize for Jewish-Christian Relations and the H. Walter Award for Interfaith Cooperation, and the incoming president of the Catholic Biblical Association for 2026–2027. Her books include: * The Misunderstood Jew: The Church and the Scandal of the Jewish Jesus * Short Stories by Jesus: The Enigmatic Parables of a Controversial Rabbi * The Jewish Annotated New Testament (co-edited with Marc Brettler) * The Bible With and Without Jesus: How Jews and Christians Read the Same Stories Differently (with Marc Brettler) * Jesus for Everyone: Not Just for Christians * And many more, including the Beginner's Guide series and six children's books with Sandy Sasso AJ describes herself as "an unorthodox member of an Orthodox synagogue", someone who works to counter biblical interpretations that oppress and exclude. MEMORABLE QUOTE "The best outcome of this type of conversation is you become a better you because you're more aware of the strengths and weaknesses of your own tradition. You can interrogate your own tradition with questions that you might not have posed — because they're questions that somebody from the outside would see that you would not see." — AJ Levine RESOURCES MENTIONED * The Jewish Annotated New Testament [https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-jewish-annotated-new-testament-9780190461850] — 3rd edition coming August 2025 * The Bible With and Without Jesus [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-bible-with-and-without-jesus-amy-jill-levinemar-brettler] — AJ Levine & Marc Brettler * Short Stories by Jesus [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/short-stories-by-jesus-amy-jill-levine] — The Enigmatic Parables of a Controversial Rabbi * Nostra Aetate [https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html] — The Vatican II document on Jewish-Christian relations (60th anniversary, October 2025) * Previous episode: Gabriel Reynolds on Islam and "disagreeing well" in interfaith dialogue Samaritans still offering Passover sacrifices on Mount Gerizim — a living tradition

Gold in the Desert with Frederica Mathewes-Green

QUICK SUMMARY What does it mean to pray without ceasing? Can ordinary people actually do it? In this episode of Religion to Reality, prolific author and Orthodox Christian writer Frederica Mathewes-Green shares her remarkable spiritual journey: from a devout Catholic childhood to atheistic hippie, to a dramatic conversion in a Dublin church, to 50+ years of daily unceasing prayer. She also opens up about leaving the Episcopal Church, the beauty of Orthodox liturgy, and why she believes spiritual loneliness is one of the great unspoken crises of our time. IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE  * How a young Catholic woman lost her faith, explored Eastern religions, and unexpectedly encountered Christ in Dublin. * Federica’s dramatic conversion experience and the voice she believes changed her life. * How Federica and Gregory’s marriage became a path back to faith from atheism to the priesthood. * Why liberal theology accelerated church decline and weakened belief in core Christian teachings. * Gregory’s journey from Episcopal priest to Orthodox priest after leaving an increasingly secular church. * Why they left Catholicism for Orthodoxy and what liturgical worship revealed about humanity’s need for transcendence. * What God’s detailed instructions for worship in Exodus teach us about icons, beauty, and sacred art today. * The difference between liturgy and worship, and why Orthodox worship centers entirely on God. * The Jesus Prayer: its origins, spiritual benefits, and Federica’s practical guide to praying it. * What nearly 50 years of daily 3:00 AM prayer has taught Gregory about discipline and devotion. * Catholic diversity vs. Orthodox unity, and why reunion between the two traditions is more complex than it seems. * Federica’s advice on listening well, asking better questions, and meeting the deep human need to be heard. ABOUT FEDERICA MATHEWS-GREEN Frederica Mathewes-Green is one of the most prolific voices in American Christian writing, with over 800 published essays and 11 books to her name. Her work has appeared in The Washington Post, Christianity Today, The Wall Street Journal, First Things, and Smithsonian. She has been a commentator for NPR, a podcaster for Ancient Faith Radio, and a consultant for VeggieTales. A sought-after speaker, she has delivered more than 600 presentations at institutions including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Cornell, and has been interviewed over 800 times by outlets including NPR, PBS, Time, Newsweek, and The New York Times. She holds an honorary Doctor of Letters from King University and lives in Johnson City, Tennessee with her husband, the Reverend Gregory Mathewes-Green. They have three grown children and 15 grandchildren. MEMORABLE QUOTE “Stay alive and keep praying. In time, it becomes second nature, and you realize that He is responding when you invoke His name, and you sense that communion with Him.” — Frederica Mathewes-Green RESOURCES MENTIONED * The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence: The foundational devotional book on unceasing prayer that shaped Frederica’s prayer life. She first read it as a young Christian. * The Jesus Prayer (“Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me”): Developed by the Desert Fathers from the 2nd century onward; rooted in 1 Thessalonians 5:17 (“Pray without ceasing”). * 1 Thessalonians 5:17: The scriptural basis for the practice of unceasing prayer, which Paul also addressed to the Romans, Ephesians, and Colossians. * Exodus 25: God’s detailed instructions to Moses for building the Tabernacle — gold, embroidery, bells, pomegranates, and carved cherubim — Frederica’s go-to passage on the importance of sacred beauty. * Feminists for Life: The pro-life organization where Frederica served as vice president beginning in 1989, which launched her public writing and speaking career. * Ancient Faith Radio: The Orthodox Christian podcast network where Frederica has been a podcaster. * Jonathan Pageau: Iconographer and cultural commentator; mutual friend of Frederica’s and Jordan Peterson’s, who connected them at Frederica’s childhood church in Charleston. * The Anglican Ordinariate: The Catholic structure that received Anglican clergy and congregations; now shepherds Frederica’s childhood parish, St. Mary’s in Charleston, preserving its historic beauty.

The Practice of Accompaniment with Josh Packard

QUICK SUMMARY What if listening to someone isn't just a bridge to telling them something, but is itself a formative, sacred act? Sociologist and researcher Josh Packard returns to Religion to Reality to unpack groundbreaking data on the intersection of faith and listening, challenge Catholics to truly live out the concept of accompaniment, and offer an honest outside-in assessment of where the Church is falling short, and where it's quietly thriving. IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE * Why two-thirds of people say listening shaped their faith, but the Church has invested almost nothing in ministries of listening * The difference between knowing the Catholic concept of accompaniment and actually doing it * How over-professionalized youth ministry has quietly outsourced the most important relationships * Why the digital missionary space may be the most significant untapped opportunity in Catholic outreach * What "cultural Catholics" might actually be getting right that formal church structures are missing ABOUT JOSH PACKARD Josh Packard is a sociologist of religion and the founder of Future of Faith, a research and consulting organization helping churches move from institutional ministry to relational ministry at scale. He is a former sociology professor and co-founder of Springtide Research Institute, and has also served at the National Catholic Educational Association. His work includes the Sacred Listening Study, to his knowledge, the only research in the world examining the intersection of faith formation and listening, as well as the recently released book Faithful Futures. Josh is a Lutheran who has built his career crossing denominational boundaries to serve Catholic, Protestant, and ecumenical audiences alike. MEMORABLE QUOTE "I don't think you can understand what we mean when we say listening is sacred if you do not feel like you have a God who has listened to you, and that you've also listened to." — Josh Packard RESOURCES MENTIONED * Future of Faith — futureoffaith.org [https://futureoffaith.org] * Relational Discipleship White Paper — futureoffaith.org/relationaldiscipleship [https://futureoffaith.org/relationaldiscipleship] * Sacred Listening Tools (free download) — available at futureoffaith.org * Book: Faithful Futures by Josh Packard * Every Student Sent — ministry connecting high school graduates to campus believers in their first week of college (based in Texas) * Springtide Research Institute — springtideresearch.org [https://springtideresearch.org] * Religion to Reality Season 1 with Josh Packard — available in the back catalog and as a bonus episode * John Gribowich's Substack: Going Analog — johngribowich.substack.com [https://johngribowich.substack.com/]

A Church That Listens with Sebastian Gomes

QUICK SUMMARY What does it actually mean for a 2,000-year-old institution to learn how to listen? In this season premiere of Religion to Reality, multimedia journalist and America Magazine podcast director Sebastian Gomes joins hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich to unpack the Synod on Synodality, Pope Francis's sweeping effort to transform the Catholic Church into a culture of genuine listening. If you've ever wondered whether the Church is really changing, or felt frustrated that it isn't changing fast enough, this conversation will challenge and encourage you. IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE * "The message is not getting through, so maybe we should listen instead." Sebastian traces Pope Francis's pivotal shift from speaking to listening, and why it took 12 years of declining church membership to get there. (16:00) * Synodality is not a program, it's a culture. Sebastian explains why treating the synodal process like a church initiative is the most common misunderstanding people have, and what it actually means to change how an institution listens. (22:45) * What people finally said when they felt safe. From women's voices to LGBT experiences to stories of poverty and marginalization, Sebastian describes the dramatic moments inside the synod hall when people said what they'd never felt free to say before. (30:30) * The clergy problem. The most common frustration Sebastian hears from parishioners isn't about Rome, it's about their own pastor. He reflects honestly on why priests and bishops are often the biggest obstacle, and what to do about it. (25:00) * Synodality is coming whether you like it or not. Using the analogy of the early internet, Sebastian makes the case that synodal culture will eventually shape every debate in the Church, from liturgy to parish closings to outreach to young people. (38:30) * The Gen Z Catholic revival and why it's complicated. Hundreds of new converts entered the Church this Easter, making national news. Sebastian offers a nuanced take: it's real, it's notable, and it doesn't mean what you might think it means. (51:45) * You can't become synodal by just reading about it. Sebastian reflects on the personal and spiritual dimensions of synodality, and why you actually have to do it in community before it can transform your prayer life. (46:30) ABOUT SEBASTIAN GOMES Sebastian Gomes is a multimedia journalist and the director of podcast and video production at America Magazine, the Jesuit Review. He holds a BA and MA in theology and history from St. John's University in Minnesota. His media career began in 2012 at Salt + Light Catholic Media in Toronto, where he produced award-winning documentaries, including The Francis Effect and The Francis Impact. In 2022, he wrote and directed People of God, America's first feature documentary on the state of parish life across the United States. Sebastian led America's coverage of the 2023–24 Rome gatherings of the Synod on Synodality and the 2025 papal election of Pope Leo XIV. He oversees America's weekly podcast portfolio, including Jesuitical, Inside the Vatican, and The Spiritual Life with Father James Martin. He is based in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, and contributes regularly to americamagazine.org [https://www.americamagazine.org]. MEMORABLE QUOTE "Synodality is not a program. It's a culture. And resistance to synodality is also, in some ways, a resistance to the Holy Spirit — a lack of faith that God is actually present in our midst when we're together as a community." — Sebastian Gomes RESOURCES MENTIONED * America Magazine [https://www.americamagazine.org] — Sebastian's home publication, the Jesuit Review * Jesuitical Podcast [https://www.americamagazine.org/jesuitical] — America's flagship podcast for young Catholics * Inside the Vatican Podcast [https://www.americamagazine.org/inside-the-vatican] — America's Vatican coverage in podcast form * The Spiritual Life with Father James Martin [https://www.americamagazine.org/the-spiritual-life] — Weekly podcast from one of the Church's most prominent voices * Salt + Light Catholic Media [https://saltandlighttv.org] — Canada's national Catholic media organization, where Sebastian began his career * People of God (2022) — Sebastian's documentary on parish life in the U.S. (available through America Media) * Nostra Aetate [https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html] — The Vatican II document on the Church's relationship to other religions, central to Season 2's mission * The Final Document of the Synod on Synodality [https://www.synod.va/en/news/the-final-document-of-the-synod-on-synodality.html] — The result of the global consultation and Rome gatherings Sebastian covered * Join our monthly interfaith gathering — Sign up at religiontoreality.substack.com [https://religiontoreality.substack.com] *  Follow Fr. John on Substack — Going Analog at johngribowich.substack.com [https://johngribowich.substack.com]

Bonus: CARA Research with Fr. Tom Gaunt, SJ

QUICK SUMMARY What does the data actually say about how Catholics live their faith today, and who counts as "active"? In this episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with Fr. Thomas Gaunt, SJ, Executive Director of CARA (the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate) at Georgetown University, to dig into 60 years of Catholic research. They explore why inactive Catholics still fiercely identify as Catholic, what a year of volunteer service does to marriage stability and vocations, and why radical listening—not big campaigns—may be the most powerful tool the Church has. If you work in parish ministry, Catholic education, or simply want to understand the real state of the faith in America, this conversation will challenge and inspire you.  IN THIS BONUS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE * Why 30% of self-identified Catholics never attend Mass, yet refuse to stop calling themselves Catholic * CARA's consistent finding that "care for the poor" ranks #2 in what Catholics say defines their faith * The surprising discovery that 60% of young adult Catholics (18–35) are involved in faith-based activities outside Mass * Why the divorce rate among Jesuit Volunteer Corps alumni was 2% vs. ~12% for comparable peers * How 10–11% of male Catholic volunteers later entered seminary or religious life * The massive demographic churn in the Catholic population, including that 1 in 4 U.S. Catholics is a foreign-born immigrant * Why parish revitalization campaigns need to first ask the parish itself to change * How radical welcome (e.g., parking lot ministers, easy websites, a real person answering the phone) does more than any grand strategy * What Pope Francis's "arm around the shoulder" posture means for pastoral leadership * Why listening without an agenda may be the most prophetic Christian witness in an age of polarization ABOUT FR. THOMAS GAUNT, SJ Fr. Thomas Gaunt is a Jesuit priest with 53 years in the Society of Jesus and 43 years of ordained ministry. He holds a doctoral degree in city planning from the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill — making him a proud Tar Heel. He spent his early priesthood as a pastor and Director of Planning for the Diocese of Charlotte, NC, before serving as Formation Director for the Jesuits of the East and Executive Secretary of the Jesuit national office. For the past 14 years, he has served as Executive Director of CARA — the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate — located at Georgetown University in Washington, DC. His research specialties include priesthood and religious life, the impact of volunteer service on young adults, and international Catholic research. RESOURCES MENTIONED * CARA — Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate [https://cara.georgetown.edu] * The CARA Report (Substack) [https://substack.com/@caraatgeorgetown] * CARA Book: Faith and Spiritual Life of Young Adult Catholics [https://cara.georgetown.edu] * Catholic Volunteer Network [https://catholicvolunteernetwork.org] * Jesuit Volunteer Corps [https://jesuitvolunteers.org] * Nativity Parish / Rebuilt (Timonium, MD) [https://nativitybody.com] * Vinea Research (Hans Plate) [https://vineagroup.com] * Religion to Reality — DeSales Media Discipleship Study [https://religiontoreality.org]  MEMORABLE QUOTE "The most radical way to live the Christian life right now is to become a listener without an agenda." — Fr. John Gribowich EPISODE TIMESTAMPS Use these timestamps to jump to the moments that matter most to you: * [00:00:00] Introduction — Fr. Tom Gaunt introduces himself: 53 years as a Jesuit, 43 as a priest, doctoral degree in city planning from UNC Chapel Hill, and 14 years as Executive Director of CARA. * [00:02:30] What is the CARA Report? — A 30-year-old quarterly publication targeting bishops, pastors, and parish leaders. Available in print and on Substack. CARA itself just celebrated its 60th anniversary. * [00:04:00] Discipleship & Expressive Fruits — Dave and Fr. Tom discuss the DeSales Media discipleship study findings around corporal and spiritual works of mercy, and how question framing affects data interpretation. * [00:06:30] Care for the Poor as a Catholic Value — CARA data shows "care for the poor" consistently ranks #2 in what Catholics say matters most about their faith — across all Mass attendance levels. * [00:08:00] Segmenting Active vs. Inactive Catholics — How CARA defines "active" Catholics and what happens to faith-related attitudes as Mass attendance decreases (but doesn't disappear). * [00:10:00] The Catholic Identity Paradox — Why ~30% of self-identified Catholics never attend Mass, yet still firmly call themselves Catholic — and how this differs sharply from Protestant denominations. * [00:13:00] "It's in the Water" — Fr. John reflects on his high school students in San Francisco who write about their Catholic identity even though they don't practice. What makes the indelible mark truly indelible? * [00:15:00] Young Adult Catholics & Mass Attendance — CARA's national survey of 18–35-year-olds found regular Mass attendance around 15%, but 60% reported being involved in other faith-based activities. A stunning finding. * [00:17:30] Why Young People Don't Come to Mass — Schedule, boredom, not feeling welcome. And a generational shift: many younger Catholics no longer see weekly Mass as an obligation of faith. * [00:20:00] Belonging, Welcome, and Parish Mobility — One in four U.S. Catholics is a foreign-born immigrant. There has been a massive movement of Catholics from northeast/midwest to south and west. Parishes must be dynamically welcoming communities, not stable ones. * [00:23:30] The Eucharist as Community — Fr. Tom and Fr. John explore the danger of individualizing the sacraments and whether Catholics understand Mass as a communal celebration rather than a personal spiritual transaction. * [00:26:00] Reviewing the DeSales Study — Fr. Tom notes the study skews female, older, white, and more politically conservative than the general Mass-attending Catholic population — important context for interpreting results. * [00:31:30] Volunteer Service Research — CARA's landmark studies on the Jesuit Volunteer Corps and the Catholic Volunteer Network: what one year of service does to a person a decade or two later. * [00:33:00] Prayer, Reflection, and Community — The two elements from volunteer service that remained most significant ten and twenty years later: structured prayer/reflection and community experience. * [00:34:30] The Marriage Stability Finding — Among former Jesuit volunteers, the divorce rate was just 2% vs. ~12% for peers with similar education and demographics. Replicated across multiple independent studies. Two explanations: learning to live simply and value clarity. * [00:38:30] Vocations from Volunteer Programs — In the Catholic Volunteer Network study across 60+ groups: 2% of women had entered a novitiate; 10–11% of men had entered a seminary or novitiate. Fr. Tom's advice to Archbishop Kurtz: visit volunteer communities and encourage vocations. * [00:44:00] Self-Selection and Faith Engagement — Volunteers are already generous, faith-serious young adults. Their Mass attendance (50%+) far exceeds their peers (~25%). Volunteer service strengthens what is already there. * [00:45:00] The Implication of Shifting Catholic Identity — If Catholics increasingly define active faith through service rather than Sunday Mass, what does the future Church look like? Fr. Tom: "In the long run, not good" — but the solution is welcome and inclusion, not judgment. * [00:46:00] Parish Campaigns That Ask Us to Change — Fr. Tom's rule: if a revitalization campaign doesn't ask the parish itself to change, he's suspicious of it. Rebuilt parish (Nativity in Timonium, MD) as a model of radical welcome, including parking lot ministers. * [00:48:30] Meeting Catholics Where They Are — Stories from North Carolina of Spanish-language Masses for field workers, and Houston parishes overwhelmed with young transplant families who quietly slip away due to friction, not rejection. * [00:53:30] The Customer Journey of Faith — Meeting people at every touchpoint: the parking lot, the phone call, the website. Fr. John: pastoral infrastructure failures (hard-to-find pastor info, unclear websites) drive people away. * [00:55:00] "Does the Campaign Ask Me to Change?" — Dave reflects on how this posture of internal conversion is rare — and only works in a context of trust and genuine community. * [00:56:30] Listening as Research — Fr. Tom on CARA's approach: no agenda, just data. How post-research Zoom sessions with bishops and parish staffs generate the richest pastoral conversations — when the researchers simply listen to what people make of the findings. * [01:00:00] Ash Wednesday & the Thin Thread of Identity — Even non-attending Catholics show up for ashes. Rather than dismissing this, Fr. Tom sees it as pastoral data: the thread of identity is real and worth engaging. * [01:01:00] Radical Listening as the Prophetic Act — Fr. John's synthesis: in an age of polarization, listening without agenda — in research, in parish life, in relationships — may be the most distinctly Christian witness available right now. * [01:02:00] Pope Francis and the Arm Around the Shoulder — Fr. Tom on the posture Francis models: not pointing fingers, but walking alongside. Doctrine doesn't change, but the relational posture changes everything. * [01:03:00] CARA's Credibility — Built over 60 years by not advocating. Church leaders across the spectrum trust CARA precisely because the data comes without spin. Hans Plate of Vinea Research affirms this quality. * [01:07:00] Baptism Is Real — Even Catholics who never attend church intuitively know: if they call the parish, someone will come. That thin but enduring thread of belonging — rooted in baptism — is something the Church uniquely offers. * [01:08:30] Closing — Outro with information on subscribing, ratings, reviews, and visiting religiontoreality.org.   CONNECT WITH US Visit our website: religiontoreality.org  Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Follow us on social media.  Leave us a rating and review—it helps others discover the show! Send us your questions and feedback to podcast@desalesmedia.org [podcast@desalesmedia.org]. Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.