Taking Up Space with Cassie Krajewski

Internal Family Systems, Body Trust, and Body Liberation with Dr. Sand Chang

In this episode of Taking Up Space, Cassie sits down with Dr. Sand  Chang (they/them) a Chinese American, queer, non-binary, and neurodivergent clinical psychologist, educator, and trainer with the IFS Institute. Together, we explore the intersections of Internal Family Systems (IFS), Body Trust, embodiment, systemic oppression, and the radical practice of learning to deeply listen to ourselves. Dr. Chang shares their approach to making complex psychological concepts more accessible and human-centered, emphasizing that healing begins not through pathologizing or fixing, but through curiosity, compassion, and connection to our inner worlds. In This Episode, We Explore: * What Internal Family Systems really is and how it reframes our understanding of the self * Why IFS can be understood as a “deep listening practice” * The power of recognizing and validating all parts of ourselves instead of pathologizing them * How Body Trust challenges diet culture, wellness culture, and externalized authority over our bodies * The connection between embodiment, autonomy, and self-trust * Polarization within the psyche and how conflicting parts develop * Applying IFS concepts to addictions, eating disorders, and shame * The impact of systemic oppression on embodiment and healing * What body liberation actually requires beyond individual mindset shifts * The importance of creating space for complexity, contradiction, and nuance * Dr. Chang’s interdisciplinary work integrating IFS, Body Trust, body liberation, and astrology * Their new workbook: All Parts Welcome: The Queer and Trans Internal Family Systems Workbook * Their upcoming second edition of A Clinician’s Guide to Gender Affirming Care coming out next month Key Takeaways This conversation is a reminder that healing is not about becoming someone new but about creating enough safety to tune into the parts of ourselves that have been silenced, exiled, or misunderstood. Dr. Chang invites us to move away from rigid, problem-focused frameworks and toward compassionate curiosity. Whether discussing body trust, queer and trans liberation, eating disorders, or internal polarizations, they offer a powerful lens for understanding how personal healing and collective liberation are deeply connected. About Dr. Sand Chang Dr. Sand Chang is a Chinese American, queer, non-binary, neurodivergent clinical psychologist, educator, author, and trainer. They specialize in working with queer and trans communities and are deeply engaged in integrating Internal Family Systems, Body Trust, and liberation-focused approaches into psychotherapy and education. Connect with Dr. Sand Chang Learn more about Dr. Chang’s work, trainings, and publications here: Dr. Sand Chang Official Website: https://www.sandchang.com/ [https://www.sandchang.com/] All Parts Welcome: The Queer and Trans Internal Family Systems Workbook https://www.newharbinger.com/9781648485282/all-parts-welcome [https://www.newharbinger.com/9781648485282/all-parts-welcome] A Clinician’s Guide to Gender-Affirming Care: Working With Transgender and Gender Non-Conforming Clients: https://www.newharbinger.com/9781684030545/a-clinicians-guide-to-gender-affirming-care/ [https://www.newharbinger.com/9781684030545/a-clinicians-guide-to-gender-affirming-care/] Subscribe & Connect If you enjoyed this episode of Taking Up Space, be sure to subscribe, rate, and leave a review. Sharing the show helps more people find conversations centered on embodiment, liberation, healing, and what it means to fully take up space.

What Healing Looks Like on Your Own Terms with Grace Lautman LMHC, CN

Most of us were handed a story about our bodies before we were old enough to question it. That the body needs to be controlled, corrected, made smaller - made more acceptable to the world around it. Grace Lautman has spent her career helping people identify that story, set it down, and ask what might be true instead. Grace is a therapist specializing in body liberation and eating disorder recovery, and her work is rooted in something that sounds simple but is actually quite radical: trusting the person in front of you to know what healing looks like for them. Her framework is harm reduction, not a finish line, not a protocol, but a practice of meeting people where they are and honoring their autonomy at every step. In this conversation, we trace the arc of how Grace got here. She grew up at the intersection of purity culture, competitive athletics as a lightweight rower, and family dynamics that each had their own ideas about what a body was for. She's candid about her earlier career including time spent at a teen weight loss camp and what it's meant to hold that period with honesty rather than erasure. The evolution from diet culture to weight-neutral care wasn't clean or linear, and she doesn't pretend it was. We also talk about voice... how it gets buried, and what it takes to excavate it. For Grace, calling off her wedding became an unexpected portal into self-authorship: a moment that forced her to ask whose life she was actually living. That question, it turns out, is at the heart of everything she does with clients. And then there's Stephanie (Grace's satirical "bad therapist" alter ego) which we get into at length. Humor, it turns out, is its own form of disruption. Sometimes the most effective way to illuminate what's broken in a system is to play it straight, badly, and let the absurdity do the work. This is a conversation about what it means to stop managing yourself and start inhabiting yourself. About the difference between healing as compliance and healing as becoming. Topics explored: body liberation · eating disorder recovery · harm reduction · Health at Every Size · purity culture · lightweight rowing · bodily autonomy · voice and self-authorship · humor as disruption Guest Bio: Grace Lautman is a therapist and supervisor who specializes in the intersection of eating disorders and trauma. She chose the word Honor to represent her practice because she believes it is a genuine honor to be trusted with people’s stories—and she brings both clinical expertise and lived experience to that work, having also been on the other side of the couch herself. Grace works with teens and adults navigating eating disorders, body image, and trauma, with a deep understanding of how these struggles are shaped by oppressive systems, early experiences, attachment, and the nervous system. Her approach is grounded in parts work, harm reduction and EMDR, and just as importantly, in being a real human in the room—warm, collaborative, and engaged. At the core of Grace’s work is the belief that healing happens through safety, honesty, and attunement, and that therapy should feel human, accessible, and relational rather than rigid or performative. She is known for naming hard things clearly, allowing humor, meeting people where they are, and helping them make sense of patterns that once felt overwhelming or confusing. Grace is also a Washington State–approved supervisor, supporting post-graduate clinicians as they work toward licensure. Outside of her clinical work, she’s a mom, former athlete, and can often be found lingering outside neighborhood coffee shops, and trying to pet your dog. Connect with Grace: Website: https://www.honornutritioncounseling.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/honor_nutrition_counseling Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@honor.nutrition

Autism, the Model Minority Myth, and Destigmatizing Mental Health in South Asian Communities with Mrinal Gokhale

Mrinal Gokhale is an author, speaker, and consultant whose work centers on breaking down mental health stigma within South Asian communities. Her own late autism diagnosis at 25 — after years of struggling socially and academically without answers — became the catalyst for a career in advocacy, writing, and cultural change-making. She's the kind of guest who makes you think differently about the systems we all move through. In this episode, Mrinal shares how her journalism background, a memoir writing course she stumbled into during the pandemic, and a deep curiosity about psychology all converged into the work she does now. We talk about what it means to carry cultural expectations that were never yours to begin with — and what it takes to put them down. In this episode we cover: * Mrinal's late autism diagnosis and what years of not having language for her experience taught her * The model minority myth and how it quietly shapes mental health in South Asian families * How protecting family reputation and image becomes a barrier to getting support * Her book Taboo — a collection of mental health stories from the South Asian diaspora * EMDR as a turning point in her own healing, and why she advocates for finding what actually works for you * Writing as advocacy and how she uses storytelling to amplify voices that often go unheard * Connect with Mrinal: * Book: Taboo — available on Amazon * Story to Sample — also on Amazon * Find all her links and resources via her Linktree * Linktr.ee/mgokhale @Mrinalg_ If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it — and leave a review if you haven't yet. It helps more people find these conversations. Come find me between episodes at @inneratlastherapy on Instagram

EMDR Therapy and Imposter Syndrome with Carly Costello LPC

Carly Costello is a therapist, EMDR consultant, and social media educator dedicated to supporting therapists in their professional journeys. What started as an unexpected introduction to EMDR training became a career-defining pivot, and now Carly helps other clinicians build confidence, find their footing, and embrace the work they're already doing well. In this episode, Carly shares the winding road that brought her to EMDR, how personal loss and big life changes shaped her as a clinician, and what she's learned about imposter syndrome — both in herself and in the therapists she consults with. She also gets real about the juggle of running a practice, raising a kid, and showing up consistently online without burning out. In this episode we cover: * Carly's journey from art major to EMDR specialist (and the boss who signed her up for training without asking) * How EMDR helped her own sleep issues — and why that was the proof she needed * What imposter syndrome actually looks like in EMDR practitioners and how to work with it * Financial empowerment and self-worth in the therapy profession * Practical thoughts on outsourcing, flexibility, and protecting your energy Connect with Carly: * Instagram: @EMDRwithCarly [https://www.instagram.com/emdwithcarly] * Website: EMDRwithCarly.com [https://www.emdwithcarly.com/] Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a therapist friend who needs to hear this one. And if you're not already following along between episodes, come find me on [your platform/handle here].

Burnout Recovery and Thriving Entrepreneurship with Lilly Reish LCSW

Cassie returns from an extended break to launch season two of the podcast. This kickoff episode focuses on burnout amid the heaviness of what's happening the world. Cassie shares her thoughts on how disconnection and lack of community are contributing to violence and trauma, and that belonging and supportive witness are essential protective factors; systems of oppression fracture collective connection because shared power is difficult to control. The host introduces guest Lilly Reish, an EMDR consultant and founder of Forward Healing Therapy in Wisconsin, who offers EMDR intensives, ketamine-assisted therapy, brain spotting, and consultation and business coaching for trauma clinicians. Lilly and the host discuss overlapping personal connections from Denver, Lilly’s background in child welfare and hospital social work and the burnout and moral injury she experienced in flawed systems, and how entrepreneurship offers freedom and alignment. They explore therapist burnout and the limits of fixing outcomes, including Lilly’s consultation insight that EMDR work is about aligning emotion with narrative and telling the truth, which can increase distress before it improves, and the importance of therapists being able to tolerate clients’ distress. They discuss cultural and systemic pressures toward measurable outcomes, the need to let go of outcome control, boundary-setting, and diversifying income for sustainability. Lilly shares how she builds community through large, free networking events for therapists in Milwaukee, and describes a shift in her social media use from client-facing to content for EMDR therapists who want to scale, market their specialization, diversify income, and avoid burnout, while staying mindful of ethics. The episode ends with Lilly reflecting on taking up intentional space—especially by sitting back more in the therapy room and building collaborative offerings—and sharing where to connect with her online. 00:00 Welcome Back: Season 2 Kickoff + What I’ve Been Working On 01:43 Why Burnout Feels So Heavy Right Now (and Why Connection Matters) 04:54 Meet Lilly Rich: Trauma Therapist, EMDR Consultant, and Practice Owner 08:42 Lily’s Origin Story: Child Welfare, Hospital Social Work, and Burnout 10:15 Entrepreneurship, Moral Injury, and Escaping Broken Systems 13:00 The Burnout Reality for Therapists: “We Can’t Fix It All” 14:00 EMDR Mindset Shift: It’s Not Just Lowering Distress—It’s Telling the Truth 16:37 Can Therapists Tolerate Client Distress? Fixing vs. Sitting on the Wave20:26 The “Whole Therapist” Question: Deprogramming Helper Narratives 22:17 “I’ve Been Training for This My Whole Life”: The Deeper Why Behind Helping 23:29 Letting Go of Outcomes: The Boundary That Prevents Burnout 25:16 Control vs Trust: Parenting, Protection, and Surrender 25:48 Shared World, Shared Anxiety: Collective Stress in the Therapy Room 27:35 Burnout Lessons: Caseload Culture, Quitting, and Sustainable Boundaries 31:34 Diversifying Income & Helping EMDR Therapists Grow 33:10 Networking Events, Community, and Connection as Antidotes 35:34 Social Media Reality Check: Dopamine, Inner Critic, and Ethical Posting 40:32 Pivoting Your Platform: From Client-Facing to EMDR Therapist-Facing Content 42:01 Intentional Space: What’s Next + Where to Connect Connect with Lilly: https://www.forwardhealingtherapy.com Instagram: @forward.healing.therapy [https://www.instagram.com/forward.healing.therapy/#] https://stan.store/forwardhealingtherapy Connect with Cassie: https://www.inneratlastherapy.com/ Instagram: @inneratlastherapy.com Work with Cassie in Therapy or Consultation: https://www.inneratlastherapy.com/get-in-touch Connect with IRIS Training Collective: Website: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/ EMDR Courses: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/our-trainings Clinical Courses: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/clinical-courses Free Courses: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/free-courses Retreats: https://www.iristrainingcollective.com/retreats