The Edge Podcast

Ethereum Is A Vault, ETH Is The Lock: A Framework for ETH's Fair Value, Today and By 2030

Tom Dunleavy is Head of Venture at Varys Capital. In this episode, Tom walks us through his valuation framework for ETH. He offers a mental model where Ethereum is the vault filled with stablecoins, RWAs, and DeFi activity secured by it. But ETH is the lock--and the bigger the vault gets, the more valuable the lock has to be to protect it. Based on Ethereum's current onchain activity, Tom gets us to a fair value for ETH that's much higher than the price today. Furthermore, we discuss what happens to the price of ETH when Ethereum grows to $750B-$1T onchain by 2030. Tom insists the vault won't stop growing thanks to demand for stablecoins and RWAs—and that ETH, the lock, is simply due for a repricing. ------ 💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS 🔒 KPK [https://kpk.io/] | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults 🕛 NOON [https://noon.capital/] | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term 🟠 APYX [https://apyx.fi/] | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS) 👻 MANTLE [https://app.aave.com/markets] | Aave V3 is live on Mantle 🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL [https://institutional.puffer.fi/] | ETH staking solutions for scale ⚔️ KATANA [https://katana.network/] | Deep liquidity & real yield ------ ⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 2:51 - Tom’s role investing at Varys Capital 3:32 - How Tom became convinced DCF was the wrong way to value ETH 6:16 - Is Ethereum winning? 11:20 - Fees are friction, and hence not how we should value ETH 15:51 - Can Ethereum have its cake and eat it too, when it comes to capturing fees? 19:24 - If Ethereum is the vault, ETH is the lock 23:37 - Why stablecoin numbers are bullish against all odds this bear market 26:43 - Ethereum must succeed, or crypto as an asset class fails 28:39 - Linux and DTCC: Why the comparison to Ethereum is both useful and wrong 32:34 - The importance of Ethereum as trustware, producing blocks for over 10 years 35:19 - Underestimating the impact of Ethereum scaling L1 39:20 - If an issuer freezes stablecoins, it doesn’t break reliance on Ethereum security 41:50 - Tom’s valuation framework is for ETH, not for DeFi tokens 44:54 - $20,000 to $50,000 per ETH if onchain liquidity hits $750B–$1T 47:12 - How Tom gets to a fair market value today of $6,900 per ETH 50:03 - Was ETH overvalued in 2021 based on this same model? 52:38 - The 2030 base case ($55k) vs bull case ($138K) 53:36 - Closing ------ 🔗 GUEST LINKS ► Tom Dunleavy on X: https://x.com/dunleavy89 ► Tom's Ethereum article on X: https://x.com/dunleavy89/status/2059717202392359118?s=20 ------ 🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER ► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz ► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod ► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify ► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod ► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad ► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap ► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/ ------ DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic hold ETH.

Altura: A Multi-Strategy Yield From Gold Trading, Funding Rates, and Private Credit | DeFi Frontier

Matthew Pinnock is the COO of Altura. In this new episode of DeFi Frontier, we walk through Altura's multi-strategy vault and how it generates yield from three sources: a physical gold arbitrage trade, delta-neutral crypto strategies including market-making and funding rate arbitrage, and private credit yield through Fasanara's Midas mF-ONE. Matthew explains how every leg of this real world gold trade is insured. He also breaks down their Yield Run program and the related Pendle market for AVLT including the PT fixed yield and YT points leverage. ------ 💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS 🔒 KPK [https://kpk.io/] | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults 🕛 NOON [https://noon.capital/] | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term 🟠 APYX [https://apyx.fi/] | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS) 👻 MANTLE [https://app.aave.com/markets] | Aave V3 is live on Mantle 🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL [https://institutional.puffer.fi/] | ETH staking solutions for scale ⚔️ KATANA [https://katana.network/] | Deep liquidity & real yield ------ ⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:44 - Team background 2:53 - What is Altura? Multi-Strategy Yield vault explained 5:30 - Altura’s gold arbitrage trade 8:42 - Insuring every step of the gold trade 11:58 - Crypto native strategies behind AVLT 15:13 - Breakdown of where AVLT yield comes from 18:55 - Which networks support Altura and AVLT 21:31 - Base APY vs Yield Run points program 23:49 - Overview of AVLT pool on Pendle 28:05 - Security: insurance, audits, and opsec 31:32 - What’s next? Altura’s neobank vision 32:30 - Closing ------ 🔗 GUEST LINKS ► Altura website (ref link): https://app.altura.trade?referral=edgepod ► Altura Proof of Solvency dashboard: https://accountable.altura.trade/ ► Altura on X: https://x.com/alturax ------ 🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER ► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz ► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod ► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify ► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod ► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad ► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap ► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/ ------ DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. Altura has been a sponsor of The Edge Podcast, but we do not do paid guest interviews. After learning more about Altura, we invited them on the podcast to explain more on their unique gold arb trade underpinning AVLT.

How Superstate Is Building The Bridge Between $700 Trillion In TradFi and DeFi

Robert Leshner is the Founder and CEO of Superstate, as well as the former CoFounder of Compound. Most people in DeFi are focused on the $2.5 trillion cryptonative market. Robert is focused on the $700 trillion that hasn't moved onchain yet. In this episode, he explains why tokenization is the long awaited evolution for crypto markets, how Superstate is building the bridge between institutional TradFi assets and DeFi, and why the benefits of tokenization will soon lead to a hockey stick moment in DeFi and RWAs. ------ 💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS 🔒 KPK [https://kpk.io/] | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults 🕛 NOON [https://noon.capital/] | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term 🟠 APYX [https://apyx.fi/] | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS) 👻 MANTLE [https://app.aave.com/markets] | Aave V3 is live on Mantle 🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL [https://institutional.puffer.fi/] | ETH staking solutions for scale ⚔️ KATANA [https://katana.network/] | Deep liquidity & real yield ------ ⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:58 - What does tokenization actually mean? 3:41 - Tokenization is evolution, not revolution 7:42 - Why Robert built Superstate 12:49 - What are the primary benefits for tokenized asset issuers? 18:34 - Superstate’s customers + how Superstate tokenized funds work 23:13 - The magic of finance automation that is DeFi 26:28 - How Superstate straddles DeFi ethos and compliance 30:02 - Regulatory landscape, CLARITY Act, and any political headwinds 39:36 - Different categories of tokenized securities 41:26 - Big differentiators for Superstate tokenized securities 44:57 - When does tokenization hit its hockey stick moment? 48:12 - The endgame is primary issuance onchain 49:16 - Closing ------ 🔗 GUEST LINKS ► Superstate website: https://superstate.com/ ► Superstate on X: https://x.com/superstateinc ► Robert on X: https://x.com/rleshner ------ 🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER ► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz ► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod ► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify ► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod ► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad ► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap ► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/ ------ DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

5 Revenue Streams Powering Jupiter's DeFi Super App | Revenue Meta

Kash Dhanda is the COO at Jupiter. Most people know Jupiter for its flagship DEX aggregator and perps. But we've dug into the onchain business backing JUP token value accrual and why the fundamentals are worth understanding heading into the next bull run. In this episode of Revenue Meta, Kash walks us through how Jupiter generates revenue across five distinct products: DEX aggregator, perps, Jupiter Lend, JupUSD, and Jupiter Spend, plus more revenue streams growing in development. This is a fascinating deep dive into Solana's largest, most dominant DeFi super app, including why perps for just three trading pairs wins over so much trade volume, how JLP remains one of Jupiter's most popular products, and how JUP token value accrual is aligned with Jupiter's app success. We also get the inside details on what's coming with Jupiter Lens DEX, prediction markets for the World Cup, Jupiter Spend, and their new Offerbook for borrowing and lending with long tail tokens. ------ 💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS 🔒 KPK [https://kpk.io/] | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults 🟠 APYX [https://apyx.fi/] | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS) 🕛 NOON [https://noon.capital/] | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term 👻 MANTLE [https://app.aave.com/markets] | Aave V3 is live on Mantle 🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL [https://institutional.puffer.fi/] | ETH staking solutions for scale 🏙 MAINSTREET [https://mainstreet.finance/] | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets ⚔️ KATANA [https://katana.network/] | Deep liquidity & real yield ------ ⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 1:40 - Overview of Jupiter ecosystem products 2:50 - Jupiter’s biggest growth wins in 2025 4:55 - DEX aggregator revenue is still the foundation 9:17 - Perps is Jupiter's biggest revenue driver 11:32 - New revenue streams 13:57 - JLP is one of Jupiter’s most popular products 18:27 - The importance of Jupiter’s wallet development 19:53 - The potential for Jupiter Lend growth 21:14 - How Jupiter Lend generates revenue for JUP holders 24:06 - What went into launching Bitwise x Ethena market 27:04 - The JupUSD stablecoin and how Jupiter will grow its usage 31:06 - Jupiter is a platform for builders, not just an app 33:43 - Overview of JUP token value accrual 42:54 - Jupiter Lens DEX, prediction markets, Offerbook, and Jupiter Spend 45:41 - Jupiter Spend monthly volume is growing fast 48:09 - Closing ------ 🔗 GUEST LINKS ► Jupiter website: https://jup.ag/ ► Jupiter on X: https://x.com/JupiterExchange ► Kash on X: https://x.com/kashdhanda ------ 🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER ► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz ► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod ► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify ► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod ► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad ► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap ► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/ ------ DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. Kash holds JUP.

Why Private Credit Is Moving Onchain — And What DeFi Gets Right and Wrong About It

David Vatchev is Head of Tokenization at Fasanara, Arpan Gautam is the Founder at Noon, and Rob Montgomery is the CoFounder at infiniFi. In this episode, David, Arpan, and Rob break down why not all private credit is the same, and why the short duration, asset-backed, diversified kind is fundamentally different from what's causing problems in TradFi. They walk through how Noon and infiniFi independently chose to allocate to Fasanara, how the First Brands Group bankruptcy stress-tested their thesis in real time, and what tokenized private credit needs to get right in its next phase for DeFi. ------ 💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS 🔒 KPK [https://kpk.io/] | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults 🟠 APYX [https://apyx.fi/] | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS) 👻 MANTLE [https://app.aave.com/markets] | Aave V3 is live on Mantle 🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL [https://institutional.puffer.fi/] | ETH staking solutions for scale 🏙 MAINSTREET [https://mainstreet.finance/] | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets ⚔️ KATANA [https://katana.network/] | Deep liquidity & real yield ------ ⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 0:00 - Intro 2:53 - How Fasanara thinks about private credit in DeFi 4:58 - What is infiniFi building? 8:28 - What is Noon building? 10:55 - The opportunity for tokenization is huge! 16:31 - What are valid vs overstated concerns about private credit onchain? 20:52 - Why Noon tokenized yield deployed directly into Fasanara 23:25 - How Noon manages liquidity demands with Fasanara exposure 27:22 - Why infiniFi chose to deploy into mGLOBAL on Midas 31:48 - The First Brands stress test on Fasanara and DeFi’s exposure 43:17 - What DeFi must get right in the next phase of tokenized private credit 48:04 - Real-time verification and transparency onchain can improve TradFi 52:53 - How infiniFi is betting more on private credit yield onchain 58:12 - What shouldn't work well onchain 1:01:19 - What’s next on product roadmaps for infiniFi and Noon? 1:04:41 - Closing ------ 🔗 GUEST LINKS ► Fasanara website: https://www.fasanara.com/ ► Fasanara on X: https://x.com/FasanaraCapital ► Noon website: https://noon.capital/ ► Noon on X: https://x.com/noon_capital ► Arpan on X: https://x.com/ag_noon ► infiniFi website: https://infinifi.xyz/ ► infiniFi on X: https://x.com/infiniFi ► Rob on X: https://x.com/RobAnon ------ 🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER ► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz ► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod ► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify ► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod ► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad ► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap ► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/ ------ DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic invested in the seed round for infiniFi. Noon has been a sponsor of The Edge Podcast, but they have never paid for a guest slot. We do NOT offer paid guest slots. We chose Arpan for this roundtable based on his expertise in Fasanara's private credit offering.