Are You Avoiding Harm or Creating Benefit? Exploring Social Licence, Social Risk and Social Value

When Facts Aren't Enough: Working with Outrage During Community Engagement

Our instinct is often to explain more, provide more information or try harder to persuade. But when emotions are running high, facts alone rarely change minds. People don't respond to technical risk alone. They respond to how that risk feels. Understanding that difference is at the heart of outrage management. In this episode of emPOWER, Wendy Agar sits down with Kelly Parkinson, who has spent decades helping organisations navigate community outrage during major infrastructure and development projects around the world. Working alongside internationally recognised risk communication expert Peter Sandman, Kelly has helped organisations prevent, reduce and work through community outrage, while training practitioners and leaders to build trust when projects become stuck. Kelly first joined the emPOWER podcast in Episode 3 to introduce the foundations of Outrage Management. In this conversation, we build on those ideas and continue the discussion from our previous episode, ‘Who Looks After the People Leading Change?’ with Andrew Brier, moving from how we look after ourselves to how we work effectively with others when conversations become difficult. Together, Wendy and Kelly unpack: * Why facts and evidence rarely reduce outrage on their own • What outrage really is and why understanding it changes everything • Why many of the biggest barriers to good engagement sit inside organisations, not communities • The practical strategies that help build trust when emotions are high • How to recognise the psychological drivers behind people's concerns • Why listening, empathy and validation are often more powerful than persuasion • What great community engagement looks like when conversations become difficult Whether you work in community engagement, land access, renewable energy, infrastructure, mining or government, this conversation offers practical, evidence-based strategies for navigating difficult conversations with greater confidence, empathy and effectiveness. This episode is part of our Working in the Middle: Engagement on the Ground During the Energy Transition series, proudly supported by Powerlink Queensland.   Produced at ⁠The Podcast Boss⁠ ⁠ [http://thepodcastboss.com/]podcast studio in Brisbane

The Hidden Cost of Community Engagement. Who Looks After the People Leading Change?

Community engagement is incredibly rewarding work, but anyone who's done it knows it can also be emotionally demanding. You're often working with people who are worried, frustrated or uncertain about change, while balancing project pressures, competing expectations and emotionally demanding conversations. The impact is cumulative, and over time it can take a real toll. In this episode of emPOWER, Wendy Agar speaks with Andrew Brier, who has spent decades working at the intersection of communities, government and major energy and resource projects, about the often-overlooked reality of 'working in the middle' and what it really takes to stay safe while helping others navigate change. Drawing on decades of experience across Queensland's coal seam gas industry and the renewable energy transition, Andrew shares the lessons he's learnt about preparing yourself, recognising risk early and staying effective without carrying the weight of every conversation home. Together, Wendy and Andrew unpack: * Why community engagement is emotionally demanding work • The hidden risks practitioners face that organisations don't always see • How to care deeply without carrying everything home • What great leaders do to support engagement teams • Lessons from the coal seam gas industry that still matter today • Why preparing yourself is just as important as preparing for the stakeholder Whether you work in community engagement, land access, renewable energy, infrastructure, mining or government, this conversation offers practical insights into protecting the people leading change. This episode is part of our Working in the Middle: Engagement on the Ground During the Energy Transition series, proudly supported by Powerlink Queensland.   Produced at ⁠The Podcast Boss⁠ ⁠ [http://thepodcastboss.com/]podcast studio in Brisbane

Are You Avoiding Harm or Creating Benefit? Exploring Social Licence, Social Risk and Social Value

When major projects are proposed, a lot of attention is given to managing risk and avoiding harm, and while those things matter, they're only part of the picture. What if we asked a different question? What does it look like to create genuine value for communities? In this episode of emPOWER, Wendy Agar speaks with Professor Sara Bice from the Australian National University and social impact specialist Richard Parsons about the relationship between social licence, social risk, social impact and social value and why the language we use matters. Together, they explore whether projects can become so focused on managing what could go wrong that they miss opportunities to create meaningful and lasting benefits for communities. Wendy, Sara and Richard unpack: * The difference between social licence, social risk, social impact and social value • Why social value is about far more than community benefit funds • The relationship between community engagement and social impact assessment • Why trust, participation and legitimacy matter • How projects can move beyond risk management to creating genuine community value • What good practice looks like across the life of a project This conversation challenges some of the most common assumptions in project development and offers practical insights for people working in renewable energy, infrastructure, government, mining, community engagement and social impact. This episode is part of our Working in the Middle: Engagement on the Ground During the Energy Transition series, proudly supported by Powerlink Queensland.   Produced at ⁠The Podcast Boss⁠ ⁠ [http://thepodcastboss.com/]podcast studio in Brisbane

Can Regions Shape Their Own Energy Future? Lessons from the Central-West Orana

At its heart, this conversation explores a simple but important idea: Every region has the right to shape its own pathway through the energy transition. In the Central-West Orana region of New South Wales - home to Australia’s first declared Renewable Energy Zone (REZ) - communities are navigating large-scale renewable energy development, transmission infrastructure, workforce pressures and major regional change in real time. In this episode of emPOWER, Wendy Agar speaks with Justine Campbell, CEO of Regional Development Australia Orana, and Brooke Watts, founder of Business with Brooke, about what it takes to genuinely work alongside regional communities during times of significant change. Drawing on their lived experience across the region, they explore why trust, local leadership and meaningful engagement matter so deeply,  and why regional communities want to help shape the future, not simply have change happen to them. Together, Wendy, Justine and Brooke unpack: • Why no region can be treated as “one voice” • The importance of trust, consistency and genuine relationships • Why young people need to be part of shaping regional futures • What communities are really asking for when it comes to legacy benefits • And what other regions can learn from the Central-West Orana experience This episode is part of the Regions at the Helm series, supported by The Energy Charter, exploring how regional communities can help shape better outcomes through the energy transition. If you work in renewable energy, engagement, regional development, government, land access or community leadership, this conversation offers practical insights into how regions can navigate complex change in ways that build trust, strengthen participation and support long-term regional futures. Produced at ⁠The Podcast Boss⁠ ⁠ [http://thepodcastboss.com/]podcast studio in Brisbane

Communicating Across Difference During the Energy Transition

We often assume that if people just had more information, they’d understand, but in contested environments, communication is rarely just about the facts. Across the energy transition, many conversations are shaped by something much deeper — trust, identity, social dynamics, lived experience and whether people feel there’s an “us and them” divide. In this episode of emPOWER, Wendy Agar speaks with Dr Rebecca Colvin from Australian National University about what’s really happening underneath community responses to change, and why even well-intentioned communication can land very differently depending on who’s hearing it. Drawing on her research into the social dynamics of renewable energy conflict, Rebecca explores why people can look at the exact same landscape and see completely different things, how group identity shapes trust and decision-making, and why relationships matter far more than “perfect messaging.” Together, Wendy and Rebecca unpack: * Why conflict around renewable energy is often about far more than infrastructure * The hidden role of identity, belonging and “us vs them” dynamics * Why you can’t “out-data outrage” * The communication mistakes organisations often make, even with good intentions * What it means to “communicate like a cubist” * Four practical strategies for communicating across difference in contested environments * Why trust is built through relationships, not collateral This episode is part of our Working in the Middle: Engagement on the Ground During the Energy Transition series, proudly supported by Powerlink Queensland. If you work in engagement, government, renewable energy, infrastructure, leadership or community development, this conversation offers practical insights into how we navigate complexity, conflict and communication in a more human way. Produced at ⁠The Podcast Boss⁠ ⁠ [http://thepodcastboss.com/]podcast studio in Brisbane