How not to leave money on the table when you sell your Business: Tony Brown from Divest Merge Acquire

Community Ownership Explained: How Rural Towns Can Save Essential Businesses: Matt Pfahlert

Most rural communities are facing a critical crossroads: how to preserve essential local businesses when traditional ownership models are failing. What if communities could take ownership themselves—reclaiming their future one business at a time? Matt Pfahlert [https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-pfahlert-acre/] founder of Community Owned Australia [https://acre.org.au/our-services/community-owned-australia/], explains how regional communities can take a step towards buying and operating the assets they can't afford to lose.  Drawing on successful models from Australia and overseas, Matt shares practical lessons on community ownership, social enterprise, governance, funding and long-term sustainability. This conversation explores what happens when ownership transition fail, how communities can identify opportunities worth saving, and why entrepreneurial thinking remains essential even when profit isn't the only objective. If you're interested in business ownership, succession, regional development or the future of rural Australia, this episode offers a fresh perspective on keeping communities alive and thriving. Key Topics * The role of community ownership in preventing the closure of essential local businesses * The powerful concept of "recombinant innovation"—bringing proven strategies from overseas and adapting them to local contexts. * How rural communities can leverage local networks to acquire assets * The importance of entrepreneurial mindset and operational discipline in community-run businesses * Examples of related models from overseas * Practical steps for communities to start their ownership journey using the Community Owned Australia framework * The significance of long-term planning, succession, and shared services to sustain rural businesses * Policy insights for government support, including easing regulations around superannuation and incentivizing rural investment Timestamps 00:00 - Introducing the importance of community ownership in rural Australia 01:11 - The risk of losing key community assets and the concept of community buyback 01:55 - Matt’s background growing up in rural communities and early entrepreneurial ventures 04:19 - Lessons from youth entrepreneurship and trading in small towns 05:30 - Moments that highlighted the need for alternative ownership models 07:45 - How overseas models inspire Australian solutions 09:44 - What  Recombinant Innovation  means for community-led ventures 11:30 - The principles and scope of  Community Owned Australia 12:09 - Diagnosing community needs and supporting local enterprise creation 14:02 - Building feasible business models with technical support and grants 15:20 - The importance of community governance, local investment, and co-ownership 17:23 - How to leverage external networks and mentorship for rural projects 20:05 - Changing community perceptions and motivation for local ownership 21:28 - The impact of local small businesses on retaining population and improving local appeal 22:39 - Identifying the types of businesses suited for community ownership 23:57 - Stages of community readiness and initial steps for engagement 26:11 - Role of entrepreneurial discipline and operational excellence in community ventures 28:00 - The significance of professional management and governance roles 29:32 - Innovative ideas like renewable energy projects to boost local economies 32:48 - Strategic planning, business succession, and understanding local business ecosystems 35:53 - Financing, valuation, and overcoming bank reluctance in rural asset ownership 38:04 - Engaging local champions—women, community leaders, and long-term residents 39:21 - The shifting mindset: from curiosity to motivation for rural community ownership 43:39 - Examples of successful buy-backs and their long-term asset value 44:40 - How communities can initiate with minimal risk through expressions of interest 47:21 - Hypothetical: What Matt would do as Australia's small business minister 48:48 - Final thoughts and how to get involved with Community Owned Australia   You can register your interest here  Community Owned Australia [https://acre.org.au/our-services/community-owned-australia/] Other resources & Links * Development Trust Association of Scotland [https://dtascot.org/] * Plunkett UK [https://plunkett.co.uk/] * Kerr Capital [https://kerrcapital.com.au/]   Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]

How not to leave money on the table when you sell your Business: Tony Brown from Divest Merge Acquire

Most business owners dramatically underestimate what it takes to sell successfully—until it's finally too late.  @Tony Brown [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybrown56/] founder of @DMA [http://www.divestmergeacquire.com/] is a seasoned expert in Australia's mid-market transactions. We talk about hidden pitfalls that lead to owners leaving money on the table, and the critical steps in preparing your business two years before selling.  We break down how owner dependence, cultural fit, and timing can make or break your sale.  And, you'll learn about why cleaning up your balance sheet, structuring flexible exit options, and keeping key staff informed is so important. The episode is very timely for an owner on the cusp of selling. In this episode: * The common surprises owners face in the sale process * Why understanding your business's true value is crucial early on * The differences between small and mid-market sales—what you need to know * How strategic buyers think and what influences their offers * The importance of owner readiness and timing (two years out, ideally) * How to make your business more attractive and less risky for buyers * Owner dependence and succession planning secrets * The critical role of info memoranda, data rooms, and due diligence * Protecting your legacy, staff, and your own peace of mind * Practical tips for entrepreneurs aiming for a smooth, profitable exit   Timestamps: 00:00 - Why most owners leave money on the table in a business sale 02:10 - The importance of viewing your business from an outsider's perspective 04:23 - How due diligence can turn your business upside down 05:25 - Defining the mid-market: what most Australian businesses look like 07:11 - Why a business is more like a virtual walkthrough than a house 09:42 - The crucial difference owner-operator mindset vs. strategic buyers 12:19 - The sweet spot: industry focus and the role of strategic vs. financial buyers 14:43 - How owner emotional ties influence negotiation and sale strategy 16:34 - The significance of cultural and strategic fit over price alone 18:55 - How foreign acquirers and local sellers can align interests 20:19 - The importance of owner transition planning 22:53 - Why your business "value" depends on owner involvement and planning ahead 24:54 - The power of structure: minority shareholdings, options, and de-risking deals 26:48 - Transitioning to a project-focused exit and meaningful post-sale work 28:28 - The rise of industry-specific, project-based advisory boards 30:24 - How industry giants buy and what that means for small business owners 33:34 - Protecting your business from over-sharing and maintaining confidentiality 37:07 - The risks of rushing a sale—what owners often screw up 40:34 - Preparing your balance sheet and operations two years prior to sale 43:24 - The common pitfalls when owners get overattached to systems and tech 45:39 - The underrated value of intellectual property and brand assets 48:29 - Envisioning a better small business environment—less regulation, more supportIf you want to walk away with a clear game plan, more confidence, and less risk in your exit strategy—this episode is a must-listen. Tony Brown's insights aren't just theory—they're battle-tested, real-world truths that could maximize your sale and protect your legacy. Resources & Links: * Tony Brown's LinkedIn [https://linkedin.com/in/tonybrown] * DivestMergeAcquire [https://divestma.com/] Connect with Tony: * Email: tony.brown@divestma.com [tony.brown@divestma.com] @kerrcapital.com.au    Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]

The other Circular Economy - hitting the road & making a living: folk rock duo - JC and the Tree

Jacinta and Jesse from JC and the Tree [https://www.jcandthetree.com/#/] have built their version of freedom, in music and in life. They have 3 years of touring Australia to prove it. From the road, gig by gig, they've had a a red hot crack at running a fully DIY music business while travelling Australia. This is a grounded look at what that actually takes: long drives, small crowds, constant admin, and making the numbers work through gigs, merch, and multiple income streams. They share how they stay organised, why community matters more than scale, and the trade-offs most people underestimate. It’s a bit romantic, and a lot about being practical, disciplined, and deliberate. A useful and entirely motivating case study for anyone thinking about taking the leap to 'do a lap' and maintain or indeed start a new business. The message - get out and have a crack! Here's a couple of tracks to get your trip started. Outrun the Sun [https://jcandthetree.bandcamp.com/track/outrun-the-sun] Wide Open Plain [https://jcandthetree.bandcamp.com/track/wide-open-plain] Made to Roam [https://jcandthetree.bandcamp.com/track/made-to-roam] Main Insights: * The daily grind of touring they call “no routine,” balancing gigs, admin, and sanity * How small shows foster a strong community and why passion outweighs crowd size * The leap from traditional jobs to full-time artist on the road, fueled by necessity and dreams * The art of DIY—building a van, managing finances, marketing, and staying organized * Income streams: gigs, merch, streaming struggles, and the promising world of sync licensing * The mental health camaraderie among musicians on the road and the importance of support networks * How living minimally on the move enhances life and art * The future of independent artists: adaptability, passive income, and making space for creativity * Policy fixes for small businesses, echoing the duo’s call for fairness and ecosystem support Timestamps: 00:00 - The transformative power of living and working in a DIY artist community 01:02 - A typical day on the road: exercise, driving, gigs, and admin chaos 03:43 - The magic of small crowds: intimacy and authenticity in live music 05:08 - Moving from full-time jobs to chasing music dreams: risk, burnout, and breakthroughs 07:55 - The real costs: gear, recordings, and building a sustainable music business 09:11 - Breaking free from expensive rent, embracing a van life for freedom and purpose 13:13 - Skills beyond music: craftsmanship, bookkeeping, and digital literacy 17:50 - Streaming vs. traditional income: the harsh realities and future promises 21:28 - The potential of sync licensing—turning creative work into passive income streams 25:44 - The resilience of community: mental health, support, and the shared journey 27:23 - The evolving Australian live music scene: opportunities for indie musicians 29:42 - Challenges of balancing passion, business, and personal wellbeing on the road 36:35 - The pros and cons of platforms like Bandcamp, Spotify, and the quest for fair revenue 42:43 - Artistic passion vs. business acumen: living the lifestyle and sustaining the craft 51:45 - Imagining policy initiatives: fairness, tax accountability, and supporting small businesses 55:12 - Final words: the importance of community, resilience, and bold choices in art and life Resources & Links: * Michael West Media - Investigative Journalism on Tax Cheats [https://michaelwest.com.au/] * Spotify Streaming Platform [https://open.spotify.com/artist/09mhbRiwbErA54iwOzRJ4G?si=RmD2WAxuTCG_WH24rre0Ug] * Bandcamp for Artists & Musicians [https://jcandthetree.bandcamp.com/music]   JC and the Tree  Facebook Instagram  [https://instagram.com/jc_and_the_tree]   Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]

A stronger SME economy, higher business productivity and broader wealth creation through Employee Ownership: Andy Farquharson.

@Michael Kerr [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeljkerr-small-business-adviser/] and @Andy Farquharson [https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/] dive into #employeeownership Andy founded @abettermonday [https://abettermonday.me/]  and hosts the @alternativeexit [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN3zuCyTo2A] podcast.  They discuss; * Why Employee Ownership is such a viable exit strategy for small business owners  * The benefits of EO for; * How EO has the potential to bridge wealth disparities and enhance productivity The conversation also covers what's needed to increase the number of successful EO transitions, including; 1. The importance of engaging employees in the ownership transition process 2. The need for a supportive regulatory framework, and  3. The cultural shifts required for successful implementation.  Key takeaways * Employee ownership can sustain small businesses and local economies. * There is a significant productivity increase in employee-owned businesses. * Employee ownership requires a cultural shift within organizations. * Education and access to data are crucial for employee engagement. * Employee ownership can help bridge wealth disparities in communities. * Transitioning to employee ownership needs capital and management expertise. * The regulatory environment must support employee ownership models. * Employee ownership is viable for various types of businesses. * Engaging employees early in the ownership conversation is essential. * Local investment can enhance the success of employee-owned businesses. Chapters 00:00 Exploring Employee Ownership as an Exit Strategy 03:15 Andy Farquharson's Journey to Employee Ownership 08:04 The Benefits of Employee Ownership for All Stakeholders 10:33 The Role of Benevolent Owners in Employee Ownership 15:33 Addressing Wealth Disparity and Worker Disengagement 19:11 Implementing the Owner Operating System 24:10 Common Misunderstandings About Employee Ownership 26:24 Engaging Owners in the Employee Ownership Conversation 29:44 The Importance of Open Communication in Business Sales 30:36 Aligning Incentives for Employee Engagement 32:35 Preparing Businesses for Sale: Cultural Changes 34:25 The Psychological Barriers of Exit Planning 35:04 The Challenge of Business Improvement 36:25 Employee Ownership: A Fit for All Businesses? 39:48 The Continuum of Employee Ownership Models 42:00 The Role of Small Business Owners 44:39 Engagement Levels in Employee Ownership 45:25 Bringing European Employee Ownership Models to Australia 47:19 The Impact of Employee Ownership in Regional Communities 49:27 Key Conditions for Successful Employee Ownership 51:00 Top Priorities for Small Business Policy 54:18 OTO outro 15-4-25.mp3 @kerrcapital [www.kerrcapital.com.au]   Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]

Acquired serendipitously, and then transformed: Rebecca Barnett's 154 year old Maldon Bakery acquisition.

@Rebecca Barnett [https://www.maldonbakery.com.au/story] serendipitously acquired the @Maldon Bakery [https://www.facebook.com/maldonbakery/]  The Bakery is 154 years old and also the oldest continuously running bakery in Australia. It's a hell of a legacy to take on! Find out how serendipity led her to this historic gem, her challenges in reviving its legacy, and the continuous improvement model that drives her success. From leveraging family history in baking to navigating the complexities of running a business, Rebecca shares her insights on; * entrepreneurship * the importance of community support * the value of mentorship * the art of baking  Tune in to learn how passion and vision can turn a dream into reality. @kerrcapital [www.kerrcapital.com.au] Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au [michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au] www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au [www.ownertoowner.com.au]