AI Tools for Non-Technical Founders to Build Million-Dollar Apps Without Coding with Michaela (Mickey) Shiloh

AI Tools for Non-Technical Founders to Build Million-Dollar Apps Without Coding with Michaela (Mickey) Shiloh

In this episode, Max Bernstein [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] sits down with Michaela (Mickey) Shiloh [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelashiloh/] a songwriter, entrepreneur, and founder of HRDRV [https://www.linkedin.com/company/hrdrv/], to unpack her journey from Grammy-winning songwriter to non-technical music tech founder. Mickey shares how she launched HRDRV (pronounced ‘hard drive’) on Wix in just a few hours, scaled it into a thriving artist community, and eventually rebuilt the platform using AI-powered no-code tools like Lovable and Claude. The conversation dives deep into the realities of building software without a technical background, including hiring developers, navigating expensive agency relationships, and learning product design, back-end infrastructure, and security along the way. Mickey explains how modern AI tools have completely transformed her workflow and allowed her to independently build Version 4 of HRDRV. Key Takeaways: * Why Mickey built HRDRV to connect artists with creative services and sync opportunities * How no-code AI tools like Lovable and Claude are changing software development * The hard lessons of hiring agencies and managing developers as a non-technical founder * Why community is the core reason artists stay on HRDRV * How sync licensing can create major career breakthroughs for independent artists * Why organic marketing and authenticity outperform expensive growth tactics * The reality of “ignore culture” in the music industry and how responsiveness creates trust * How artists can use curiosity and everyday problems to spark business ideas Key Timestamps: 00:00 - The road trip that inspired HRDRV 01:22 - Building the first version using Wix, JotForm, and Trello 05:29 - Developer horror stories and expensive agency lessons 17:07 - Discovering Lovable and AI-powered no-code app development 20:27 - How Lovable and Claude work together to build software 24:31 - Building apps in a creative flow state 28:41 - Why technical engineers still matter in AI development 33:25 - What HRDRV actually does today 37:26 - Success stories from sync placements and artist growth 44:45 - The music industry’s “ignore culture” problem 47:28 - Organic marketing and growing through community 56:32 - Final thoughts and wrap-up Follow Our Guest, Michaela (Mickey) Shiloh: * Michaela (Mickey) Shiloh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelashiloh/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelashiloh/] * HRDRV LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/company/hrdrv/ [http://linkedin.com/company/hrdrv/] * HRDRV Website: https://home.hrdrv.com/ [https://home.hrdrv.com/] Follow the Host, Max Bernstein: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] * X: https://x.com/relationlco [https://x.com/relationlco] Follow RELATIONL: * Website: https://www.relationl.co/ [https://www.relationl.co/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationl [https://www.youtube.com/@relationl] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/ [https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/]

How Indie Artists Are Gaming Spotify Without Getting Banned with Dorian Perron

In this episode, Max Bernstein [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] sits down with Dorian Perron [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorian-perron-44102177], Co-founder of Groover [https://www.linkedin.com/company/heygroover/], to break down how artists actually grow on Spotify today through playlists, algorithms, and data-driven strategies. Dorian explains why playlisting has become the dominant form of music promotion, replacing traditional outlets like blogs and radio, and how artists can use it to generate real audience growth. He also talks about the risks of artificial streaming, how to identify fraudulent playlists, and why engagement matters far more than follower count. The conversation also explores how Spotify’s algorithm works behind the scenes, including the importance of early traction, popularity scores, and listener behavior. Dorian shares actionable strategies for artists to maximize campaigns, build momentum across platforms, and avoid common mistakes that can hurt long-term growth. Key Takeaways * Why playlisting has become the most important driver of music discovery * How to spot fake playlists and avoid artificial streaming penalties * Why engagement matters more than playlist follower count * How Spotify’s algorithm rewards early traction and listener consistency * The growing role of AI in music creation and its impact on the industry Key Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction to the changing landscape of playlisting 04:42 - Identifying fraudulent playlists and avoiding artificial streams 09:12 - How to create successful independent playlists 14:01 - Using social media and ads to build playlist engagement 19:58 - Why territories like Brazil and Mexico are critical for growth 23:08 - How Spotify’s algorithm works and the importance of early traction 28:00 - What genres have the biggest indie playlists? 28:54 - The role of digital ads in Groover’s growth strategy 30:00 - What people think about AI generated music 37:29 - Where to follow Dorian and Groover for more tips and updates Follow Our Guest, Dorian Perron * Dorian Perron LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorian-perron-44102177 [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorian-perron-44102177] * Groover LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/heygroover/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/heygroover/] * Indeflagration LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/indeflagration/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/indeflagration/] * Dorian Perron Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dorianflagrant/ [https://www.instagram.com/dorianflagrant/] * Groover Music Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/groover.music/ [https://www.instagram.com/groover.music/] * Groover Obsessions Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grooverobsessions/ [https://www.instagram.com/grooverobsessions/] * Groover Website: https://groover.co/https://groover.co/en/ [https://groover.co/en/] * Indeflagration Website: https://indeflagration.fr/ [https://indeflagration.fr/] Follow the Host, Max Bernstein: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] * X: https://x.com/relationlco [https://x.com/relationlco] Follow RELATIONL: * Website: https://www.relationl.co/ [https://www.relationl.co/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationl [https://www.youtube.com/@relationl] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/ [https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/]

Is Rock Music Back with Ashlyn Bruni

In this episode, Max Bernstein [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] sits down with Ashlyn Bruni [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlyn-bruni-37535269/], A&R Coordinator at Hopeless Records [https://www.linkedin.com/company/hopelesssub-city-records/], to break down the resurgence of rock music and what it takes for artists to succeed in today’s landscape. Ashlyn shares how modern A&R has evolved beyond chasing streams and viral moments, focusing instead on genuine fan connection, community-building, and long-term artist development. She also unpacks how independent labels operate, the shift toward distribution and licensing deals, and the trade-offs artists face when choosing between indie and major routes. The conversation also explores the role of TikTok in discovery, the risks of trend-chasing, and the growing impact of AI on music creation, offering a clear look at where the industry is heading and what artists need to stand out. Key Takeaways * Why rock music is making a strong comeback and what’s driving the revival * What A&R actually looks for beyond streams, followers, and viral moments * Why fan connection and community matter more than audience size * The shift from traditional record deals to distribution and licensing models * How AI and TikTok are both helping and hurting artist discovery Key Timestamps 00:00 - Introduction to Ashlyn Bruni and her role at Hopeless Records 01:15 - The resurgence of rock music: What’s driving the comeback? 03:30 - How A&R evaluates artists in 2026 06:00 - Why indie labels are becoming a better option for many artists 08:15 - The shift from traditional record deals to distribution and licensing models 11:00 - The role of TikTok in artist discovery and trends 13:20 - The risks of chasing viral moments and social media success 15:00 - Women in the music industry and overcoming gender bias 17:40 - The importance of representation for emerging artists 20:00 - Ashlyn’s thoughts on the future of rock and new talent 22:30 - Artists to watch right now in the rock scene 24:00 - Where to connect with Ashlyn and final thoughts Follow Our Guest, Ashlyn Bruni * Ashlyn Bruni Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashlyn.bruni/ [https://www.instagram.com/ashlyn.bruni/] * Ashlyn Bruni LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlyn-bruni-37535269/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlyn-bruni-37535269/] * Hopeless Records Website: https://www.hopelessrecords.com/ [https://www.hopelessrecords.com/] * Hopeless Records LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hopelesssub-city-records/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/hopelesssub-city-records/] Follow the Host, Max Bernstein: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] * X: https://x.com/relationlco [https://x.com/relationlco] Follow RELATIONL: * Website: https://www.relationl.co/ [https://www.relationl.co/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationl [https://www.youtube.com/@relationl] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/ [https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/]

Stop Chasing Virality with Mark Roberge

In this episode, host Max Bernstein [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] sits down with Mark Roberge [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-roberge/], a musician, founder of FanFlowy [https://fanflowy.com/], to break down the systems-driven approach behind building a sustainable music career in today’s industry. He is also the co-founder of Make Our Music [https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-our-music/] and serves as CEO of Bamrock Entertainment [https://www.linkedin.com/company/bamrock-entertainment/] and Prospect Hill Entertainment [https://prospecthillband.com/]. Mark shares how artists can move beyond chasing virality and instead build predictable, scalable growth using marketing funnels, fan acquisition strategies, and automation. Drawing from his experience as both a touring musician and tech founder, he explains why Spotify followers, not just monthly listeners, are the key metric for long-term revenue, and how independent artists can realistically generate six-figure incomes through a combination of streaming, merch, and live shows. Together, Max and Mark explore how to treat music like an e-commerce business, why owning your audience is critical, and how to turn casual listeners into lifelong superfans through intentional systems and storytelling. Key Takeaways * Why Spotify followers matter more than monthly listeners for long-term income * How to build a full-funnel marketing system for music (ads → fans → superfans) * The role of merch, live shows, and community in maximizing fan lifetime value * How automation and tools like FanFlowy reduce workload while scaling growth * Why consistency, not virality, is the foundation of a sustainable music career Key Timestamps 00:00 – Followers vs. monthly listeners: the metric that actually drives revenue 01:24 – How 50K Spotify followers can translate into $100K+ annual income 04:20 – Building real fans vs. chasing viral moments 06:46 – Applying e-commerce funnels to music marketing 19:29 – What high-converting ads for artists actually look like 23:18 – Inside the fan journey: from signup to superfandom 31:26 – Using SMS, email, and automation to nurture fans 37:55 – How much work artists actually need to put in 41:26 – Final thoughts - where to connect Follow Our Guest, Mark Roberge * Make Our Music website: https://www.makeourmusic.com/ [https://www.makeourmusic.com/] * Make Our Music LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-our-music/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/make-our-music/] * FanFlowy Website: https://fanflowy.com/ [https://fanflowy.com/] * Mark Roberge LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-roberge/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-roberge/] * Prospect Hill Entertainment LLC Website: https://prospecthillband.com/ [https://prospecthillband.com/] * Bamrock Entertainment LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bamrock-entertainment/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/bamrock-entertainment/] * Make Our Music Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makeourmusic [https://www.instagram.com/makeourmusic] * Make Our Music Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/makeourmusic [https://www.facebook.com/makeourmusic] * Make Our Music Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@makeourmusic [https://www.youtube.com/@makeourmusic] Follow the Host Max Bernstein: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] * X: https://x.com/relationlco [https://x.com/relationlco] Follow RELATIONL: * Website: https://www.relationl.co/ [https://www.relationl.co/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationl [https://www.youtube.com/@relationl] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/ [https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/]

The Team Energy Fix for Music Leaders to Stop Burnout Fast with Marni Wandner

In this episode, host Max Bernstein [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] sits down with Marni Wandner [https://www.linkedin.com/in/marniwandner/], founder of Future Present [https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-present-co/], to explore how leadership, burnout prevention, and human-centered systems can reshape the way the music industry works. Drawing from her journey through artist management, running a successful marketing agency, experiencing burnout, and ultimately building a coaching and consulting practice, Marni introduces the Five Archetypes framework, based on the Chinese elements, as a practical tool for understanding behavior, communication styles, and stress responses. Together, Max and Marni unpack how self-awareness improves collaboration, why energy management is more important than time management, and how companies can scale sustainably by designing systems that support people, not just output. Key Takeaways 1. What the Five Archetypes (Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water) reveal about leadership and decision-making 2. How burnout shows up differently depending on personality and stress response 3. Why self-awareness is the foundation of better collaboration and communication 4. How to manage energy sustainably in high-pressure creative environments 5. Why healthy systems, not hustle are the key to long-term success in music Key Timestamps 00:00 – What is Future Present and the philosophy behind the work 02:08 – How Marni works with music companies and creative teams 04:31 – Integrating neuroscience, leadership, and the Five Archetypes 12:00 – Inside the Five Archetypes assessment and group sessions 15:08 – Live archetype analysis of Max’s leadership style 23:22 – Using archetypes to make better decisions under pressure 26 24 – Can archetypes change over time? Nature vs. nurture 35:04 – Burnout risk, stress tolerance, and resilience 46:56 – Energy management, systems, and avoiding constant fire drills 56:32 – Real-world company transformation case study 59:08 – Mergers, acquisitions, and human-centered integration Follow Our Guest, Marni Wandner 1. Future Present website: https://www.futurepresentco.com/ [https://www.futurepresentco.com/] 2. Marni Wandner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marniwandner/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/marniwandner/] 3. Marni Wandner Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marniwandner/ [https://www.instagram.com/marniwandner/] 4. Future Present Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurepresentco/ [https://www.instagram.com/futurepresentco/] Follow the Host Max Bernstein: 1. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/] 2. X: https://x.com/relationlco [https://x.com/relationlco] Follow RELATIONL: 1. Website: https://www.relationl.co/ [https://www.relationl.co/] 2. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationl [https://www.youtube.com/@relationl] 3. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/] 4. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/ [https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/]