Your Undivided Attention

What Would It Take to Actually Trust Each Other? The Game Theory Dilemma

So much of our world today can be summed up in the cold logic of “if I don’t, they will.” This is the foundation of game theory, which holds that cooperation and virtue are irrational; that all that matters is the race to make the most money, gain the most power, and play the winning hand.  This way of thinking can feel inescapable, like a fundamental law of human nature. But our guest today, professor Sonja Amadae, argues that it doesn’t have to be this way. That the logic of game theory is a human invention, a way of thinking that we’ve learned — and that we can unlearn. In this episode, Tristan and Aza explore the game theory dilemma — the idea that if I adopt game theory logic and you don’t, you lose — with Dr. Sonja Amadae, a professor of Political Science at the University of Helsinki. She's also the director at the Center for the Study of Existential Risk at the University of Cambridge and the author of “Prisoners of Reason: Game Theory and the Neoliberal Economy.” The history of game theory as an inhumane technology stretches back to its WWII origins. But humans also cooperate, and we can break out of the rationality trap by daring to trust each other again. It’s critical that we do, because AI is the ultimate agent of game theory and once it’s fully entangled we might be permanently stuck in the game theory world. RECOMMENDED MEDIA “Prisoners of Reason: Game Theory and the Neoliberal Economy” by Sonja Amadae (2015) [https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/prisoners-of-reason/0C3FF0AC512060E6A62A01AC77CCFA71] The Cambridge Centre for the Study of Existential Risk [https://www.cser.ac.uk/] “Theory of Games and Economic Behavior” by John von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern (1944) [https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691130613/theory-of-games-and-economic-behavior?srsltid=AfmBOorRWCoWqx_oGPL6PUzcm9SBegjUXDsD0NY16L__qUQtwx0hotCi] Further reading on the importance of trust in Finland [https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200615-why-finnish-people-tell-the-truth] Further reading on Abraham Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs [https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html] RAND’s 2024 Report on Strategic Competition in the Age of AI [https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA3295-1.html] Further reading on Marshall Rosenberg and nonviolent communication [https://www.cnvc.org/about/marshall] The study on self/other overlap and AI alignment cited by Aza [https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/hzt9gHpNwA2oHtwKX/self-other-overlap-a-neglected-approach-to-ai-alignment] Further reading on The Day After (1983) [https://www.mentalfloss.com/entertainment/tv/when-day-after-terrorized-100-million-viewers-vision-nuclear-war]   RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES America and China Are Racing to Different AI Futures [https://centerforhumanetechnology.substack.com/p/america-and-china-are-racing-to-different] The Crisis That United Humanity—and Why It Matters for AI [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-crisis-that-united-humanity-and-why-it-matters-for-ai] Laughing at Power: A Troublemaker’s Guide to Changing Tech [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/laughing-at-power-a-troublemakers-guide-to-changing-tech] The Race to Cooperation with David Sloan Wilson [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-race-to-cooperation-with-david-sloan-wilson]   Clarifications: * The proposal for a federal preemption on AI was enacted by President Trump on December 11, 2025, shortly after this recording.  * Aza said that "The Day After" was the most watched TV event in history when it aired. It was actually the most watched TV film, the most watched TV event was the finale of MASH Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

America and China Are Racing to Different AI Futures

Is the US really in an AI race with China—or are we racing toward completely different finish lines? In this episode, Tristan Harris sits down with China experts Selina Xu and Matt Sheehan to separate fact from fiction about China's AI development. They explore fundamental questions about how the Chinese government and public approach AI, the most persistent misconceptions in the West, and whether cooperation between rivals is actually possible. From the streets of Shanghai to high-level policy discussions, Xu and Sheehan paint a nuanced portrait of AI in China that defies both hawkish fears and naive optimism. If we're going to avoid a catastrophic AI arms race, we first need to understand what race we're actually in—and whether we're even running toward the same finish line. Note: On December 8, after this recording took place, the Trump administration announced that the Commerce Department would allow American semiconductor companies, including Nvidia, to sell their most powerful chips to China in exchange for a 25 percent cut of the revenue. RECOMMENDED MEDIA “China's Big AI Diffusion Plan is Here. Will it Work? [https://mattsheehan.substack.com/p/chinas-big-ai-diffusion-plan-is-here]” by Matt Sheehan Selina’s blog [https://selinaxu.com/] Further reading on China’s AI+ Plan [https://futurism.com/china-ai-powered-economy] Further reading on the Gaither Report and the missile gap [https://www.jfklibrary.org/events-and-awards/kennedy-library-forums/past-forums/transcripts/50th-anniversary-of-the-missile-gap-controversy] Further Reading on involution in China [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/23/opinion/china-economy-deflation-neijuan.html] The consensus from the international dialogues on AI safety in Shanghai [https://idais.ai/dialogue/idais-shanghai/] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES The Narrow Path: Sam Hammond on AI, Institutions, and the Fragile Future [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-narrow-path-sam-hammond-on-ai-institutions-and-the-fragile-future] AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/ai-is-moving-fast-we-need-laws-that-will-too] The AI ‘Race’: China vs. the US with Jeffrey Ding and Karen Hao [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-ai-race-china-vs-the-us-with-jeffrey-ding-and-karen-hao] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

AI and the Future of Work: What You Need to Know

No matter where you sit within the economy, whether you're a CEO or an entry level worker, everyone's feeling uneasy about AI and the future of work. Uncertainty about career paths, job security, and life planning makes thinking about the future anxiety inducing. In this episode, Daniel Barcay sits down with two experts on AI and work to examine what's actually happening in today's labor market and what's likely coming in the near-term. We explore the crucial question: Can we create conditions for AI to enrich work and careers, or are we headed toward widespread economic instability?  Ethan Mollick is a professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, where he studies innovation, entrepreneurship, and the future of work. He's the author of Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI. Molly Kinder is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, where she researches the intersection of AI, work, and economic opportunity. She recently led research with the Yale Budget Lab examining AI's real-time impact on the labor market.  RECOMMENDED MEDIA Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI by Ethan Mollick [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/741805/co-intelligence-by-ethan-mollick/] Further reading on Molly’s study with the Yale Budget Lab [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/new-data-show-no-ai-jobs-apocalypse-for-now/] The “Canaries in the Coal Mine” Study from Stanford’s Digital Economy Lab [https://digitaleconomy.stanford.edu/publications/canaries-in-the-coal-mine/] Ethan’s substack One Useful Thing [https://www.oneusefulthing.org/]   RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Is AI Productivity Worth Our Humanity? with Prof. Michael Sandel [Is AI Productivity Worth Our Humanity? with Prof. Michael Sandel] We Have to Get It Right’: Gary Marcus On Untamed AI [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/we-have-to-get-it-right-gary-marcus-on-untamed-ai] AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/ai-is-moving-fast-we-need-laws-that-will-too] Tech's Big Money Campaign is Getting Pushback with Margaret O'Mara and Brody Mullins [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/techs-big-money-campaign-is-getting-pushback-with-margaret-omara-and-brody-mullins]   CORRECTIONS 1. Ethan said that in 2022, experts believed there was a 2.5% chance that ChatGPT would be able to win the Math Olympiad. However, that was only among forecasters with more general knowledge (the exact number was 2.3%). Among domain expert forecasters, the odds were an 8.6% chance. 2. Ethan claimed that over 50% of Americans say that they’re using AI at work. We weren’t able to independently verify this claim and most studies we found showed lower rates of reported use of AI with American workers. There are reports from other countries, notably Denmark, which show higher rates of AI use. 3. Ethan indirectly quoted the Walmart CEO Doug McMillon as having a goal to “keep all 3 million employees and to figure out new ways to expand what they use.” In fact, McMillon’s language on AI has been much softer, saying that “AI is expected to create a number of jobs at Walmart, which will offset those that it replaces.” Additionally, Walmart has 2.1 million employees, not 3. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Feed Drop: "Into the Machine" with Tobias Rose-Stockwell

This week, we’re bringing you Tristan’s conversation with Tobias Rose-Stockwell on his podcast “Into the Machine.”  Tobias is a designer, writer, and technologist and the author of the book “The Outrage Machine [https://www.outragemachine.org/].”  Tobias and Tristan had a critical, sobering, and surprisingly hopeful conversation about the current path we’re on AI and the choices we could make today to forge a different one. This interview clearly lays out the stakes of the AI race and helps to imagine a more humane AI future—one that is within reach, if we have the courage to make it a reality.  If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to check out and subscribe to “Into the Machine”: YouTube: Into the Machine Show [https://www.youtube.com/@IntoTheMachineShow] Spotify: Into the Machine [https://open.spotify.com/show/0S0TxNnI4uYTaPWdD1VnDT] Apple Podcasts: Into the Machine [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-machine-with-tobias-rose-stockwell/id1824137015?utm_source=chatgpt.com] Substack: Into the Machine [https://tobias.substack.com/] You may have noticed on this podcast, we have been trying to focus a lot more on solutions. Our episode last week imagined what the world might look like if we had fixed social media and all the things that we could've done in order to make that possible.  We'd really love to hear from you about these solutions and any other questions you're holding.  So please, if you have more thoughts or questions, send us an email at undivided@humanetech.com.     Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What if we had fixed social media?

We really enjoyed hearing all of your questions for our annual Ask Us Anything episode. There was one question that kept coming up: what might a different world look like? The broken incentives behind social media, and now AI, have done so much damage to our society, but what is the alternative? How can we blaze a different path? In this episode, Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin set out to answer those questions by imagining what a world with humane technology might look like—one where we recognized the harms of social media early and embarked on a whole of society effort to fix them. This alternative history serves to show that there are narrow pathways to a better future, if we have the imagination and the courage to make them a reality. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on X: @HumaneTech_ [https://twitter.com/humanetech_]. You can find a full transcript, key takeaways, and much more on our Substack [https://centerforhumanetechnology.substack.com/]. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke [https://www.annalembke.com/dopamine-nation] The Anxious Generation by Jon Haidt [https://www.anxiousgeneration.com/book] More information on Donella Meadows [https://donellameadows.org/donella-meadows-legacy/donella-dana-meadows/] Further reading on the Kids Online Safety Act [https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/about/issues/kids-online-safety-act] Further reading on the lawsuit filed by state AGs against Meta [https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/24/bipartisan-group-of-ags-sue-meta-for-addictive-features.html] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Future-proofing Democracy In the Age of AI with Audrey Tang [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/future-proofing-democracy-in-the-age-of-ai-with-audrey-tang] Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/jonathan-haidt-on-how-to-solve-the-teen-mental-health-crisis] AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/ai-is-moving-fast-we-need-laws-that-will-too] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.