Provoking Peace Podcast

The Future is Peace with Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon (Part 2 of 2)

In Part 2 of this profound episode of Provoking Peace, we continue our conversation with Palestinian peacemaker Aziz Abu Sarah and Israeli peacemaker Maoz Inon. They dive into the difficult, emotional process of writing their upcoming book, an eight-day shared journey that explores the physical geography of the region alongside the emotional geography of their own grief, healing, and partnership. Aziz and Maoz discuss the messy, imperfect reality of being a peacemaker. They reject the idea that one must be a perfect, saint-like figure to do this work, arguing instead that peacemaking is an active, daily choice to build a world rooted in justice, equality, and dignity. They navigate the complexities of dialogue across the divide, emphasizing that true peacebuilding requires listening without silencing each other's narratives, even when discussing highly charged terms. The conversation highlights the immense power of public symbolism and dreaming. They share the breathtaking story of their embrace in front of Pope Francis and 13,000 peacebuilders in Verona, Italy, illustrating how a single moment of unity can transform skepticism into hope. Ultimately, Aziz and Maoz offer a powerful reminder: we cannot fix broken realities with logic and arguments alone; we must also rely on poetry, art, and the courage to dream of a shared future. Key Takeaways: * Dialogue requires the mutual respect of allowing each person to speak from their own narrative without silencing the other. * Writing their collaborative book was a deeply emotional process that required transforming unimaginable personal loss into a roadmap for reconciliation. * Peacemakers are not flawless saints; they are imperfect people who actively choose to do the hard work of creating a better world. * Public symbols of unity, like an Israeli and a Palestinian embracing before Pope Francis, have the power to shift global skepticism into faith and hope. * A roadmap to peace begins with the courage to dream, followed by the commitment to amplify that dream loudly and publicly. * When logic and political arguments fail, art and poetry hold the profound ability to address broken realities and bridge divides. * Ignoring injustice and conflict is not a viable option; peacebuilding is a necessary, urgent choice for the survival and safety of all humanity. About the Guests  Aziz Abu Sarah is a Palestinian peacemaker, author, and tourism entrepreneur.  Following the tragic loss of his brother Taysir to the conflict, Aziz dedicated his life to reconciliation and building bridges across divides. He is the co-author of The Future Is Peace and travels the world to amplify the dream of a shared future, demonstrating that peace is not only possible but essential. Maoz Inon is an Israeli peacemaker, author, and tourism entrepreneur.  After the heartbreaking loss of his parents to the ongoing conflict, Maoz chose the path of peace and partnership over revenge. Alongside his "brother" Aziz, he advocates globally for justice, equality, and a peaceful resolution, proving that shared grief can be transformed into a powerful catalyst for collective healing. Notable Quotes:  “I think what makes peacemakers unique is that we are not perfect people. We are very much an imperfect people who trying to create a better world.” “The only way I will be able to justify their death, if there will be a sacrifice for peace and not for war. Only peace will justify their death.” Resources Mentioned: * The People's Peace Summit [https://www.pressenza.com/2025/05/the-peoples-peace-summit-in-jerusalem-final-day-israelis-and-palestinians-together-to-say-peace-now/] * The Future Is Peace [https://thefutureispeace.com/]

The Future is Peace with Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon (Part 1 of 2)

In this episode of Provoking Peace, hosts from the Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom sit down with Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon, co-CEOs of InterAct International. As a Palestinian and an Israeli working together, they discuss their shared journey as peacemakers and their upcoming book, The Future is Peace: A Shared Journey Across the Holy Land, set for release on April 14th. Key Provisions * The Power of Vulnerability: Both authors emphasize that true healing and reconciliation require being vulnerable and working through personal pain and trauma. * Brotherhood and Partnership: Their relationship is built on a "brotherhood" that rejects the narrative of being "supposed enemies" in favor of equality and shared action. * Breaking Ignorance: The book is described as a "hammer" intended to break down walls of ignorance that lead to fear and hatred. * Shared Humanity: Rather than debating historical facts to "win," they focus on a dialogue that recognizes 50% of the region's population is Israeli and 50% is Palestinian, requiring a joint path forward. Scope of Work & Compensation * Peacemaking as a Lifestyle: For Aziz and Maoz, peacemaking is a 24/7 commitment that informs everything they do, including tours, writing op-eds, and leadership. * Personal Cost of Conflict: * Maoz Inon: Lost both of his parents and several childhood friends to the conflict. * Aziz Abu Sarah: Lost his brother and has family members separated by exile and different administrative rules in Jerusalem and the West Bank. * Defining the Nakba: Aziz explains the Nakba (1948) as a "catastrophe" that continues to affect Palestinians today through trauma, displacement, and disconnection from family. Communication & Compliance * Intentional Terminology: The duo decided to use equalizing language (e.g., if one says their parents were "killed," the other says their brother was "killed") to ensure their relationship began on level ground. * Authentic Voice: In writing the book, they allowed interviewees the freedom to use their own terms without censorship to remain faithful to their lived experiences. * Shared Values over Perfect Agreement: They argue that while people may never agree 100% on the past or specific terms, they must agree on the values and actions needed to fix the future. Resources * Book: The Future is Peace: A Shared Journey Across the Holy Land by Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon [https://www.amazon.com/Future-Peace-Shared-Journey-Across/dp/B0F7G5GHYX](Available April 14th). * Organization: InterAct International, [https://www.iinteract.org/] a non-profit dedicated to Middle East peace. * Podcast: Provoking Peace by the Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom.

Personal Journeys, The Power of Language, and Shared Humanity with Peter Beinart & Dr. Dalia Fahmy

In the second half of the Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom’s annual conference keynote, Dr. Dalia Fahmy and Peter Beinart tackle the complex and heavily weighted language used to describe the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They explore how trigger words like "terrorism," "Zionism," and "from the river to the sea" are often misunderstood or unevenly applied, emphasizing the need to ask deeper questions rather than shutting down dialogue. The conversation highlights the media's failure to center Palestinian voices and the necessity of embracing discomfort as a vital tool for learning and democratic renewal. Answering audience questions, Peter and Dalia confront historical blind spots, such as the lack of memorials for the Native American genocide, and then discuss why true safety for Jewish people cannot be built on a system of supremacy. Ultimately, both speakers share where they find hope in dark times: the courage of young people, the rise of new morally grounded institutions, and a generation that views the entire world as their collective "pond." Key Takeaways * Language must place all people on an equal footing; terms like "terrorism" should be applied consistently to both non-state actors and state violence. * Instead of reacting defensively to polarizing words, the most productive path forward is to ask people to define what those terms mean to them personally. * "Gotcha media" and debate-style discourse prevent active listening. True education and understanding require stepping into spaces of discomfort. * Safety and supremacy are not synonymous. True security is found when neighboring populations have equal rights and a voice in their governance. * Philosopher Peter Singer’s "drowning child" thought experiment serves as a powerful reminder that our moral obligation extends globally. * Hope for the future lies in cross-cultural solidarity, student activism, and the building of new community institutions free from the moral compromises of the status quo. About the Guests Peter Beinart is a leading journalist, political commentator, and professor of journalism and political science at the Newmark School of Journalism at CUNY. He is the author of several books, including his latest, Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza. A frequent contributor to the New York Times, the Atlantic, and the New Republic, Beinart is known for his thought-provoking analysis on American politics, foreign policy, and the intersection of Jewish identity and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Dr. Dalia Fahmy is an Associate Professor of Political Science at Long Island University, where she teaches US foreign policy, international relations, and politics of the Middle East. She is a Senior Fellow at the Center for Global Policy and has served as a visiting scholar at the Center for the Study of Genocide and Human Rights at Rutgers University. Dr. Fahmy is a prominent voice on political Islam and democracy, frequently appearing on major news networks to provide expert analysis on global conflicts. Notable Quotes “Every time you're uncomfortable is because it's an opportunity to learn... If we don't want discomfort, we've actually decapitated the ability to learn.” — Dr. Dalia Fahmy “Being uncomfortable is not the same as being unsafe... Have those conversations side by side, recognizing that all students have the right to be safe on campus and all students should be expected to be challenged intellectually.” — Peter Beinart Resources Mentioned * Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom  https://sosspeace.org/ [https://sosspeace.org/] * Famine, Affluence, and Morality - Peter Singer (Essay PDF)https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil308/Singer2.pdf [https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil308/Singer2.pdf]

Personal Journeys, Political Realities, and Shared Humanity with Peter Beinart & Dr. Dalia Fahmy

In this special keynote presentation from the Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom’s annual conference at Rutgers University, co-host Tahija Vikalo sits down with journalist and commentator Peter Beinart and esteemed scholar Dr. Dalia Fahmy for a profound, wide-ranging conversation. The episode begins with Peter and Dalia opening up about the personal journeys and pivotal life events that shaped their worldviews. Dr. Fahmy emphasizes the critical need for a feminist perspective in political science that accounts for the interpersonal and familial toll of war, while Peter shares his evolution from viewing Israel as an unquestioned safe haven to the destabilizing, yet liberating, experience of seeing the reality of the occupation through Palestinian eyes. Key Takeaways * A feminist perspective on conflict resolution would changes how war atrocities are counted, focusing on the destruction of family units, the lived experience of women, and the interpersonal toll. * Unlearning internalized biases is a long but liberating process, requiring us to actively listen to the lived experiences of marginalized groups. * The language used around conflict and ceasefires often masks ongoing structural violence; a temporary pause does not equal a long-term peace plan. * Data from the Arab Barometer project indicates that prior to October 7th, a vast majority of Palestinians in Gaza (76%) wanted Hamas out of power and desired democratic representation. * Meaningful political discourse requires addressing the actions and ideology of Hamas, while also recognizing Israel's historical role in weakening secular, nationalist Palestinian leadership. * The struggle against anti-Muslim bigotry and anti-Jewish bigotry must be intertwined; both are rooted in a dangerous push for homogeneity, hierarchy, and ethno-nationalism. * The Granada Declaration, drafted by 26 scholars, offers a 10-principle framework for combating Antisemitism and Islamophobia together. * True interfaith solidarity means showing up for one another to celebrate and exist together, rather than only coming together in the aftermath of violence or massacres. About the Guests Peter Beinart  Peter Beinart is a leading journalist, political commentator, and professor of journalism and political science at the Newmark School of Journalism at CUNY. He is the author of several books, including his latest, Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza. A frequent contributor to the New York Times, the Atlantic, and the New Republic, Beinart is known for his thought-provoking analysis on American politics, foreign policy, and the intersection of Jewish identity and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Dr. Dalia Fahmy  Dr. Dalia Fahmy is an Associate Professor of Political Science at Long Island University, where she teaches US foreign policy, international relations, and politics of the Middle East. She is a Senior Fellow at the Center for Global Policy and has served as a visiting scholar at the Center for the Study of Genocide and Human Rights at Rutgers University. Dr. Fahmy is a prominent voice on political Islam and democracy, frequently appearing on major news networks to provide expert analysis on global conflicts. Notable Quotes “I never entered the room as the Muslim professor... but what women bring to these spaces and how we study them is that we challenge the data and count differently. We challenge the narrative and look at the interpersonal and take it seriously.” — Dr. Dalia Fahmy Organizations / Initiatives  * Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom https://sosspeace.org/ [https://sosspeace.org/] * Arab Barometer Project https://www.arabbarometer.org/ [https://www.arabbarometer.org/]

Listening Across Difference: Sacred Spaces, Storytelling & Interfaith Community with Dr. Celene Ibrahim & Vanessa Avery

In this episode of Provoking Peace, we are joined by Dr. Celene Ibrahim, scholar of Islamic intellectual history and gender studies, and Vanessa Avery, interfaith leader and Executive Director of Sharing Sacred Spaces, for a rich and wide-ranging conversation on interfaith dialogue, deep listening, sacred space, and rebuilding community in polarized times. Celene and Vanessa share their personal journeys into interreligious work. Shaped by multifaith upbringings, academic study, and lived experience navigating religious identity across Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other traditions. Both reflect on how interfaith engagement is not just an intellectual pursuit, but a deeply embodied, relational practice rooted in listening, vulnerability, and dignity. The conversation explores practical tools for interfaith dialogue, including structured story-sharing, deep listening exercises, and awareness of the emotional and bodily responses that arise in difficult conversations.  Key Takeaways * Interfaith dialogue is most effective when grounded in deep listening, empathy, and structured storytelling. * Sacred spaces and architecture provide powerful entry points for understanding religious meaning and shared humanity. * Media representations play a significant role in shaping stereotypes about religious communities—and can be challenged through awareness and advocacy. * “Brave spaces” require trust, dignity, and shared norms for navigating productive disagreement. * Young people are often eager to engage across difference but may feel skeptical about systemic change without lived examples of hope. * Religious and secular worldviews alike are shaped by moral frameworks, values, and assumptions that benefit from honest dialogue. * Faith-based communities play a crucial role in rebuilding social fabric through care, service, and belonging. * Interfaith work is as much about self-reflection as it is about understanding others. About the Guests Dr. Celene Ibrahim Dr. Celene Ibrahim is a multidisciplinary scholar specializing in Islamic intellectual history, gender studies, comparative religion, and ethics. She is the author of Women and Gender in the Qur’an and a trusted media voice on Islam and interreligious relations, with appearances on NPR, PBS, and Netflix. She is a faculty member at Groton School, where she teaches Religious Studies and Philosophy and serves as Muslim Chaplain. Vanessa Avery Vanessa Avery is a longtime interfaith leader, religious studies scholar, and advocate for religious diversity and inclusion. She is the Executive Director of Sharing Sacred Spaces, an organization dedicated to building interfaith community through visits to sacred spaces, dialogue training, and relationship-building. Vanessa lectures on interfaith engagement and has authored numerous articles on world religions, nonviolence, and peacebuilding. Notable Quotes “Listening deeply is a spiritual practice. When we recreate someone’s story, we recreate their world.” Resources Mentioned Books * Women and Gender in the Qur’an — Dr. Celene Ibrahim https://www.routledge.com/Women-and-Gender-in-the-Quran/Ibrahim/p/book/9780367507768 [https://www.routledge.com/Women-and-Gender-in-the-Quran/Ibrahim/p/book/9780367507768] Organizations / Initiatives * Sharing Sacred Spaces https://www.sharingsacredspaces.org [https://www.sharingsacredspaces.org/] * Groton School – Religious Studies & Philosophy https://www.groton.org/academics/religious-studies-philosophy [https://www.groton.org/academics/religious-studies-philosophy] * Spiritual Playdate https://www.spi [https://www.spiritualplaydate.com/]