Shally's Alley

The $70k Recruiter Lie: Why Your Best Talent Is Leaving with Adam Kovacs Live on Shally's Alley

This episode rips apart the myth that high recruiter turnover is a talent problem. Adam Kovacs, founder of Hire With Near, delivers hard truths about why your recruiting function is hemorrhaging people and money. The real issue? Organizations treat recruiting like an administrative function while demanding strategic results, then wonder why nobody stays. Adam breaks down the structural failures that create 96% burnout rates and shows exactly how treating recruiting as a revenue function changes everything. In this episode we talk about the systemic dysfunction plaguing recruiting teams across industries. You'll hear why most organizations are structured to burn out their best recruiters, how a single bad hire costs 300% of annual salary, and why the traditional recruiter compensation model is fundamentally broken. Adam shares battle-tested frameworks for rebuilding recruiting as a strategic function, including how to properly resource teams, when automation actually helps, and why your ATS might be making everything worse. This is the conversation every talent leader needs to hear. Key Takeaways: ➡ 96% of recruiters experience burnout with only 49% planning to stay in the profession, yet organizations keep hiring more recruiters instead of fixing the system. ➡ A single bad hire costs organizations 300% of that person's annual salary when you factor in separation costs, recruitment expenses, onboarding, and lost productivity. ➡ Most recruiters are drowning in 40-50 open requisitions when research shows the optimal load is 15-20 max for quality outcomes. ➡ The $70k base salary trap: Organizations underpay recruiters while expecting them to fill roles that generate millions in revenue, creating a compensation structure that guarantees failure. ➡ Automation works for high-volume, low-complexity roles but becomes a liability for senior or specialized positions where relationship-building drives success. ➡ Traditional ATS platforms force recruiters to work inside systems designed for compliance, not efficiency, adding hours of administrative burden to every placement. ➡ Organizations measure recruiting success by time-to-fill instead of quality-of-hire, incentivizing speed over sustainable talent acquisition. ➡ The broken loop: Bad hires create more turnover, which creates more requisitions, which overloads recruiters, which leads to more bad hires and recruiter burnout. Chapters: 00:00 – Intro 03:15 – The 96% Burnout Crisis in Recruiting 08:42 – Why Recruiter Turnover Is a System Problem 14:20 – The True Cost of a Bad Hire: 300% ROI Loss 19:35 – Requisition Load Reality: 40 Roles Is Setting Up Failure 25:10 – The $70k Compensation Trap 31:45 – When Automation Helps and When It Destroys Quality 38:20 – Why Your ATS Is Making Recruiters Less Effective 44:55 – Measuring What Matters: Quality Over Speed 52:30 – Building a Strategic Recruiting Function Sound Bites: "We keep hiring more recruiters to solve a problem that more recruiters won't solve. It's like adding more people to a burning building instead of putting out the fire." "The system is designed to burn people out. When 96% of your workforce is experiencing burnout and only half plan to stay, that's not a people problem, that's a design flaw." Guest Info: Name: Adam Kovacs Website: HireWithNear.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/adamkovacs Expertise: Founder of Hire With Near, specializing in fixing broken recruiting systems and building sustainable talent acquisition functions for scaling organizations. Subscribe on: ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/spot%E2%81%A0] |  ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/apple%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠iHeart Radio⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/heart%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠Pandora⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/pan%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠Amazon Music⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/amzm%E2%81%A0] About Shally: ⁠srcn.co⁠ [https://srcn.co] AskShally GPT: ⁠srcn.co/sgpt⁠ [https://srcn.co/sgpt] The Sourcing Method Book: ⁠srcn.co/tsm⁠ [https://srcn.co/tsm] The AI Browser Toolkit: ⁠srcn.co/aib1⁠ [https://srcn.co/aib1] Follow Shally on * LinkedIn ⁠https://srcn.co/follow⁠ [https://srcn.co] * LinkedIn Feed: ⁠https://srcn.co/feed⁠ [https://srcn.co/feed] * Facebook Group: ⁠https://srcn.co/fb⁠ [https://srcn.co/fb] * YouTube Channel: ⁠https://srcn.co/yt⁠ [https://srcn.co/yt] * Instagram: ⁠https://srcn.co/ig⁠ [https://srcn.co/ig]

The Unicorn Hunter’s Playbook with Ashley Surratt Live on Shally's Alley

Ashley Surratt, Head of Talent Acquisition at Black & Veatch, went from recruiting at AWS to sourcing engineers who build power grids, water systems, and data centers. The shift completely redefined what "difficult sourcing" actually means. Think tech recruiting is hard? Try finding a project manager who needs 10 years designing wastewater treatment plants before they're even qualified to manage one. In this episode we talk about the gap between tech and blue collar sourcing, why "project manager" means something totally different in infrastructure, and how Ashley's team gets creative when LinkedIn doesn't work. You'll hear the unicorn hunter playbook for industries where traditional channels fail, why trade schools beat college degrees, and how certifications and field experience force you to think 10 moves ahead. Plus, Ashley's 1% daily improvement philosophy and why it compounds faster than any Boolean string. KEY TAKEAWAYS ➡ Infrastructure recruiting is exploding due to massive government spending, but the talent pipeline hasn't caught up. ➡ When LinkedIn fails, source from trade association directories, certification boards, competitor postings, and job fairs at project sites. ➡ Skilled trades run on apprenticeships, not degrees. Understand how electricians, welders, and HVAC techs enter and progress. ➡ Boolean hits a wall in blue collar roles. Work backward from certifications, union memberships, or project lists. ➡ 1% daily improvement triples your effectiveness yearly. Continuous improvement beats big swings. ➡ Infrastructure talent sees their work in the real world. Tangible impact attracts different candidates. ➡ Ashley won SourceCon's Sourcing Anonymous, proving creativity beats a massive LinkedIn Recruiter license. CHAPTERS 00:00 – Intro & Technical Difficulties 00:17 – Meet Ashley Surratt from Black & Veatch 01:38 – What is EPC and Why Infrastructure Recruiting Matters 03:08 – The Biggest Myth About Switching Industries 05:08 – Why "Project Manager" Means Something Totally Different in Construction 08:42 – Creative Sourcing When LinkedIn Fails 12:15 – Trade Schools, Apprenticeships, and the Skilled Trades Pipeline 18:30 – Boolean's Limits in Blue Collar Recruiting 24:50 – Working Backward from Certifications and Licenses 31:20 – How to Source for Roles That Require Hands-On Field Experience 38:10 – Why Infrastructure Talent Sees Their Work in the Real World 43:45 – Ashley's Sourcing Anonymous Win and Lessons Learned 48:20 – The Power of 1% Daily Improvement 52:31 – Next Guest Recommendations 54:00 – Closing Question: How Can You Improve 1% Today? SOUND BITES "I'm like, well, project managers are everywhere. What do you talk to? And then I got here and it was really estimation and having to have this giant, very niche engineering background, like, 10 years of designing the wastewater treatment before you even start managing the project." "I'm a really big believer in continuous improvement even if it's just 1%. What could I have done differently to be better tomorrow?" GUEST INFO Name: Ashley Surratt Company: Black & Veatch (EPC firm focused on water, power, and infrastructure) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleysurratt/ Expertise: Head of Talent Acquisition specializing in engineering, skilled trades, and infrastructure recruiting. Former AWS sourcing leader. SourceCon Sourcing Anonymous winner. Subscribe on: ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/spot%E2%81%A0] |  ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/apple%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠iHeart Radio⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/heart%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠Pandora⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/pan%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠Amazon Music [https://srcn.co/amzm%E2%81%A0] ⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/amzm%E2%81%A0]About Shally: ⁠srcn.co⁠ [https://srcn.co] AskShally GPT: ⁠srcn.co/sgpt⁠ [https://srcn.co/sgpt] The Sourcing Method Book: ⁠srcn.co/tsm⁠ [https://srcn.co/tsm] The AI Browser Toolkit: ⁠srcn.co/aib1⁠ [https://srcn.co/aib1] Follow Shally on * LinkedIn ⁠https://srcn.co/follow⁠ [https://srcn.co] * LinkedIn Feed: ⁠https://srcn.co/feed⁠ [https://srcn.co/feed] * Facebook Group: ⁠https://srcn.co/fb⁠ [https://srcn.co/fb] * YouTube Channel: ⁠https://srcn.co/yt⁠ [https://srcn.co/yt] * Instagram: ⁠https://srcn.co/ig⁠ [https://srcn.co/ig]

Stop Being Boring: The Recruiting Rebel's Guide to Standing Out with Brandon Jeffs Live on Shally's Alley

Brandon Jeffs isn't your average recruiter. He's the founder of Building the Talent Machine, a content studio serving the recruiting tech industry, and he's built his brand on storytelling, authenticity, and refusing to blend into the beige corporate landscape. This conversation cuts through the usual conference BS and gets real about what it takes to stand out in recruiting today: humor, intentionality, and understanding your why. In this episode we talk about RecFest experiences, the power of personality in recruiting, and why authenticity beats polish every time. You'll hear Brandon's journey from working in homeless shelters to building a recruiting career that blends content creation, executive search, and storytelling. We dig into how humor functions as strategy, brand amplification, and rebellion against the boring status quo. Brandon shares hard-won lessons about building community, leveraging content for business development, and why asking "why do you recruit?" might be the most important question you answer today. KEY TAKEAWAYS: ➡ Brandon runs Building the Talent Machine as both a podcast and a content studio that services the recruiting technology industry while doing executive search work. ➡ Shally's show has reached 312 episodes with 173 unique guests and over 24,000 total views without any intentional self-promotion strategy. ➡ RecFest brings together 3,000+ recruiters in Austin for networking, learning, and building community in ways traditional conferences can't match. ➡ Humor in recruiting serves triple duty: it's a recruiting strategy, a brand amplifier, and an act of rebellion against corporate blandness. ➡ Brandon built his entire recruiting career thanks to one recruiter who gave him an opportunity when he was living paycheck to paycheck working at a homeless shelter. ➡ Authenticity beats perfection: showing up in tie-dye and cowboy boots at HR Tech is memorable brand building, not career suicide. ➡ Content creation for recruiters isn't about going viral. It's about building genuine relationships and creating value for your specific community. ➡ The most important question recruiters should ask themselves daily: "Why do I do this?" Knowing your why changes everything about how you recruit. CHAPTERS: 00:00 – Intro and RecFest Recap 02:50 – Who Is Brandon Jeffs and What Is Building the Talent Machine? 05:14 – 312 Episodes and 24,000 Views: The Accidental Show Growth 08:30 – RecFest Deep Dive: Why 3,000 Recruiters Descended on Austin 15:42 – The Economics of Recruiting Conferences and Content Creation 22:15 – Authenticity vs. Polish: Building Your Personal Brand 30:18 – Storytelling as a Recruiting Superpower 37:45 – Content Strategy for Recruiters: What Actually Works 42:30 – The Business Model Behind Building the Talent Machine 48:08 – Humor as Strategy: Brand Amplifier or Rebellion? 50:26 – Ask Yourself Why You Recruit 51:22 – Next Guest Recommendation and Wrap SOUND BITES: "No one orders milk toast at brunch." "I'm the only influencer you'll ever meet that doesn't have social media." "Ask why you do it. Before you log on and sleuth the Internet, before you book your calendar with six to eight screens a day, ask yourself why you're doing it." GUEST INFO: Name: Brandon Jeffs Website: buildingthetalentmachine.com LinkedIn: Brandon Jeffs [https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonjeffs] Expertise: Content creator, recruiter, and founder who helps recruiting tech companies tell their stories while filling executive search roles in go-to-market functions. Subscribe on: ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/spot%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/apple%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠iHeart Radio⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/heart%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠Pandora⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/pan%E2%81%A0] | ⁠⁠Amazon Music⁠⁠ [https://srcn.co/amzm%E2%81%A0] About Shally: ⁠srcn.co⁠ [https://srcn.co] AskShally GPT: ⁠srcn.co/sgpt⁠ [https://srcn.co/sgpt] The Sourcing Method Book: ⁠srcn.co/tsm⁠ [https://srcn.co/tsm] The AI Browser Toolkit: ⁠srcn.co/aib1⁠ [https://srcn.co/aib1] Follow Shally on * LinkedIn ⁠https://srcn.co/follow⁠ [https://srcn.co] * LinkedIn Feed: ⁠https://srcn.co/feed⁠ [https://srcn.co/feed] * Facebook Group: ⁠https://srcn.co/fb⁠ [https://srcn.co/fb] * YouTube Channel: ⁠https://srcn.co/yt⁠ [https://srcn.co/yt] * Instagram: ⁠https://srcn.co/ig⁠ [https://srcn.co/ig]

Why Every Recruiter Needs to Be a "French Fry" in 2025 with Liz Whitehead Live on Shally's Alley

Want to know why some recruiters build unstoppable pipelines while others struggle? It starts with curiosity. Liz Whitehead brings raw energy and practical wisdom about what actually works in talent acquisition: staying curious, adapting like a french fry (yes, really), and remembering that recruiting is fundamentally about people, not Boolean strings. She's built her career on tech obsession balanced with genuine human connection, and this conversation reveals exactly how she does it. Key Takeaways ➡ Forever curious beats forever busy. The best recruiters treat every conversation as an opportunity to learn something new about people, industries, and motivations. ➡ Be a french fry, not a filet mignon. Versatility matters more than specialization. Adapt to different environments, clients, and challenges instead of staying rigid in your approach. ➡ Technology without humanity is just noise. Tools amplify your work, but genuine curiosity and authentic connection are what actually fill pipelines. ➡ Ask "why?" at least three times. Candidates give surface-level answers initially. Dig deeper to understand true motivations, goals, and pain points. ➡ Stop hoarding tools, start solving problems. Identify your ONE biggest pain point, then find the tool that solves it. Master that before adding more to your stack. ➡ Joy is a recruiting superpower. Bringing positive energy to every interaction isn't soft skill fluff, it's what makes candidates want to engage with you. ➡ Learn from the people you want to work with. Liz built her sourcing expertise by following industry leaders like Shally and Greg Hawkes, then applying what she learned. ➡ The intake conversation is everything. Whether it's a hiring manager or a candidate, understanding pain points upfront determines your success rate. ➡ Data scraping and automation aren't magic. They're just tools that free up time for relationship building, which is still the real work of recruiting. Chapters 00:00 – Intro: Fall weather and allergy wars 02:05 – Meet Liz Whitehead: The one that got away 04:09 – Early career: Finding the sourcing path 07:22 – The curiosity framework: Why "input" is everything 12:45 – Technology obsession meets human connection 18:30 – The french fry philosophy: Versatility as strategy 25:17 – Building authentic candidate relationships 31:40 – Asking "why?" three times: The deeper conversation 38:55 – Tool selection strategy: Solve ONE pain point 44:20 – Learning from industry leaders and applying it 51:15 – Liz Connects: Building community through connection 54:00 – Closing thoughts and guest recommendations Sound Bites "How are you like a French fry? Can you adapt to your environment, be seasoned different ways, and show up differently based on what's needed?" – Shally Steckerl "Focus on one pain point and start there. You'll be surprised how far you get." – Liz Whitehead Guest Info Name: Liz Whitehead LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizconnects/ Expertise: Talent sourcing specialist focused on technology, automation, and authentic human connection in recruiting. Known for curiosity-driven approaches and building genuine candidate relationships. Subscribe on: ⁠Spotify⁠ [https://srcn.co/spot%E2%81%A0] | ⁠Apple⁠ [https://srcn.co/apple%E2%81%A0] | ⁠iHeart Radio⁠ [https://srcn.co/heart%E2%81%A0] | ⁠Pandora⁠ [https://srcn.co/pan%E2%81%A0] | ⁠Amazon Music⁠ [https://srcn.co/amzm%E2%81%A0] About Shally: srcn.co [https://srcn.co] AskShally GPT: srcn.co/sgpt [https://srcn.co/sgpt] The Sourcing Method Book: srcn.co/tsm [https://srcn.co/tsm] The AI Browser Toolkit: srcn.co/aib1 [https://srcn.co/aib1] Follow Shally on * LinkedIn https://srcn.co/follow [https://srcn.co] * LinkedIn Feed: https://srcn.co/feed [https://srcn.co/feed] * Facebook Group: https://srcn.co/fb [https://srcn.co/fb] * YouTube Channel: https://srcn.co/yt [https://srcn.co/yt] * Instagram: https://srcn.co/ig [https://srcn.co/ig]

This Former Therapist Closed 10,000 Job Offers By Treating Recruiting Like Therapy Live on Shally's Alley

Angel Alexander: From Therapist to Workforce Architect SUMMARY: What happens when a mental health therapist pivots into talent acquisition? You get someone who sees recruiting as relationship architecture, not transaction management. Angel Alexander managed 36 recruiters, negotiated over 10,000 offers (up to 30 per week), and built diversity pipelines that actually worked because she focused on outcomes, not policies. Her secret? Understanding that all business is personal, meeting people where they are, and asking what candidates need instead of assuming what impresses them. In this episode we talk about the uncomfortable truths most TA leaders avoid. Angel breaks down why community outreach beats corporate strategy every time, how she convinced people to take $50,000 pay cuts, and why your hiring managers need to stop weeding candidates out and start weeding them in. We get into the psychology of salary negotiations, the 15+ hiring biases killing your pipeline, and why that candidate in flip-flops might be your next top performer. Plus, Angel shares her Unplugged Connect card game that forces deeper conversations than your standard screening call ever could. KEY TAKEAWAYS: * Angel negotiated 10,000+ offers, averaging 30 per week, and regularly convinced candidates to accept $15K-$50K pay cuts by focusing on total value beyond salary * She managed 36 recruiters by starting with Crystal Knowles personality assessments for each team member to understand how they communicate and operate * Grassroots community outreach is massively underestimated by TA leaders, but it builds trust faster and creates longer pipelines than broad corporate strategies * There are 15+ hiring biases most managers don't even know they have. The candidate in flip-flops might not have money for shoes, not lack professionalism * Benefits like full-ride education ($30K+ value), IVF coverage ($30K), therapy sessions, and virtual training options close deals when salary can't compete * Asking "What do you want a company to provide to you?" early in conversations reveals what candidates actually value and arms you for negotiation * Revolving loan fund model: Meet people where they are with what they need, not what you assume impresses them (coffee at 8am > fancy lunch that disrupts their day) CHAPTERS: * 00:00 – Intro and Welcome * 02:47 – From Therapist to Talent Architect * 06:27 – The Unplugged Connect Card Game * 11:36 – Managing 36 Recruiters Without Losing Your Mind * 16:01 – All Business Is Personal * 18:04 – DEI: Policy vs. Practice * 26:00 – Community Outreach vs. Corporate Strategy * 32:36 – Meeting People Where They Are * 40:53 – Interview-In, Not Interview-Out * 46:51 – Salary Negotiations: Beyond the Paycheck * 56:03 – Next Guest Recommendations SOUND BITES: "Interview-in, not interview-out. Look at their strengths and weaknesses. Weigh them out. See what can be coached and then assess in the next year what has increased." "When you're more authentic, when you're more people-led driven, you're going to get diversity. Because they see the truth. They feel like they can be seen. They feel they can be heard." "I had people take a $50,000 pay cut because of the type of internal benefits that we have. It's not just about weeding in their qualifications. I want to know what's not on your resume." GUEST INFO: Name: Angel Alexander LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/angeldba Expertise: Founder of Unplugged Connect | Diversity Pipeline Strategist | Former Therapist Turned TA Leader Who Negotiated 10,000+ Offers