The Human Element | CHRO & HR Leadership Podcast

When Doing Great HR Work Isn't Enough

Summary In this episode of The Human Element, Chief People Officer John Foster (Tala) makes the case that the biggest risk for HR leaders isn't doing bad work — it's doing great work that the organization isn't ready to receive. John shares the framework he calls scratch OD, his argument for why AI won't fix performance management but will replace it, and the career moment when a boss told him to take his foot off his throat. Essential listening for people leaders who want to use the AI era to redesign, not just optimize. Chapters 00:00 Introduction: John Foster, Tala, and the Gamut framework 02:30 AI as restructuring work, not optimizing it 05:30 Organization market fit: the Cambrian explosion analogy 09:30 Applying AI at Tala: rethinking software development and workflows 11:30 Performance management's 10-second reinvention 15:30 Using AI as a thinking partner for organizational rethinking 19:00 Scratch OD: the chef framework for HR design 23:00 The change agent's trap: empathy for overwhelmed leaders 26:30 When HR is correct but not effective 28:00 The winning organization in 2026: customer-centric and modular 30:00 Lightning round: Trader Joe's, Ford, and what HR most often skips Takeaways 1. Being entirely right about the work does not make you effective at changing the organization. 2. Scratch OD starts with the ingredients — what people actually need from work — not with which best practice to borrow. 3. AI makes individual performance clarity at scale possible for the first time, shifting the model from top-down judgment to individual empowerment. 4. The organizations that thrive in the AI era will be customer-centric and modular, not defined by their product or technology. 5. If you can imagine what you want to build and describe it in detail, you already have an entry point into using AI to construct it. Connect with the Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfoster-gamut/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfoster-gamut/] Website: https://tala.co/careers/ [https://tala.co/careers/] Sponsor Wisq is the AI platform for HR. We built Harper, the world's first AI HR teammate — designed to handle the judgment-heavy work that has historically consumed HR teams: job changes, performance concerns, leaves of absence, onboarding, and employee relations issues. Where HCM bolt-ons and chatbots deflect the easiest questions, Harper resolves full cases, end-to-end. The result is an HR function with the capacity and strategic bandwidth to focus on the work that moves the business. Companies get Harper live in weeks, not quarters, with implementation support built on deep HR domain expertise. Wisq serves HR leaders at leading companies across industries, helping them raise the bar on employee experience and expand what their teams are capable of. For more information, visit wisq.com [http://wisq.com]. * (00:00) - Introduction: John Foster, Tala, and the Gamut framework * (02:30) - AI as restructuring work, not optimizing it * (05:30) - Organization market fit: the Cambrian explosion analogy * (09:30) - Applying AI at Tala: rethinking software development and workflows * (11:30) - Performance management's 10-second reinvention * (15:30) - Using AI as a thinking partner for organizational rethinking * (19:00) - Scratch OD: the chef framework for HR design * (23:00) - The change agent's trap: empathy for overwhelmed leaders * (26:30) - When HR is correct but not effective * (28:00) - The winning organization in 2026: customer-centric and modular * (30:00) - Lightning round: Trader Joe's, Ford, and what HR most often skips

The Moments That Make or Break Your HR Function

Summary In this episode of The Human Element, Barb talks with Heather Oxley, CHRO at Perficient, about what it looks like to run HR for a firm whose entire business is helping other companies transform. Heather walks through three areas where she's deploying AI across the talent life cycle: project staffing, learning and development, and recruiting. Her central argument is that the value of AI in HR isn't primarily about cost reduction — it's about bringing clarity to the decisions that define the function. She also names the one thing AI should never touch. Chapters 00:00 Host Intro: HR at a Firm Built on Transformation 01:30 Heather's Role at Perficient and the AI-First Mandate 03:30 AI in Project Staffing: Beyond Skills and Availability 09:00 The Leapfrog Moment for Smaller Teams 12:30 Learning as Career Navigation, Not Content Delivery 17:00 90% Voluntary Adoption in Two Weeks 19:30 AI in Recruiting: Where the Legal Stakes Are Highest 22:30 Closing the Candidate Black Hole and Debiasing Panels 24:30 The Fork in the Road: Cost Reduction vs. Decision Clarity 26:00 Lightning Round: The Line AI Should Never Cross Takeaways 1. AI in recruiting should augment human judgment, not replace it, especially as legislation in New York, California, and Colorado continues to evolve. 2. Using agents to close the loop with every candidate who doesn't advance is one of the highest-value, lowest-risk uses of AI in HR. 3. The fork facing HR leaders today is cost reduction vs. decision clarity, and most organizations are defaulting to cost. 4. Moments that matter (offers, terminations, promotions, hard conversations) should always involve a person, not an agent. 5. The HR leaders who matter in this era are the ones who prove the function can be as agentic as any other part of the business. Connect with the Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatheroxley/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatheroxley/] Website: https://www.perficient.com/ [https://www.perficient.com/] Sponsor The Human Element is brought to you by Harper, Wisq's always-on AI HR Generalist transforming how work gets done. Powered by deep HR intelligence, Harper delivers instant, accurate, and empathetic support—from policy questions to performance coaching—so your people get answers fast and your teams stay focused. Learn more at https://www.wisq.com/ [https://www.wisq.com/] * (00:00) - Host Intro: HR at a Firm Built on Transformation * (01:30) - Heather's Role at Perficient and the AI-First Mandate * (03:30) - AI in Project Staffing: Beyond Skills and Availability * (09:00) - The Leapfrog Moment for Smaller Teams * (12:30) - Learning as Career Navigation, Not Content Delivery * (17:00) - 90% Voluntary Adoption in Two Weeks * (19:30) - AI in Recruiting: Where the Legal Stakes Are Highest * (22:30) - Closing the Candidate Black Hole and Debiasing Panels * (24:30) - The Fork in the Road: Cost Reduction vs. Decision Clarity * (26:00) - Lightning Round: The Line AI Should Never Cross

Why AI Adoption Stalls When Trust Runs Out

Summary In this episode of The Human Element, Barb Bidan sits down with Azurée S. Montoute-Lewis, Global Chief People Officer at Burson, to discuss what it actually takes to move AI from pilot programs to organization-wide adoption. Azurée argues that the organizations succeeding at AI adoption aren't moving the fastest. They're the ones who built a foundation of trust before deploying tools, designed metrics around decision quality rather than usage, and drew clear lines between where AI assists human work and where humans must still make the call. With 5,000 employees and 9,000 internal AI agents, Burson is a working example of what that approach produces. Chapters 00:00 Azurée's role at Burson and what makes it unique 03:10 AI forces an operating model change, not just a technology change 07:30 Why scaling AI breaks down: ownership, data gaps, change fatigue 11:45 Bringing along early adopters, skeptics, and global audiences 14:00 The right way to measure AI impact (not usage) 17:20 When Burson's data came back inconclusive and what they did next 20:15 Agentic AI: from AI that assists to AI that acts 23:50 The feedback coaching agent and where Burson draws the line 27:00 Trust, fear response, and psychological safety in an AI workplace 29:30 Lightning round: one metric, one governance mistake, one line AI won't cross Takeaways 1. Measuring AI adoption by usage is the wrong metric — decision quality and output quality are the signals that matter. 2. Organizations that deploy AI without a transparent trust conversation trigger a predictable fear response; building trust first makes adoption easier and more durable. 3. The strongest HR AI use cases augment human capability rather than replace human judgment — Burson's feedback coaching agent is a working example. 4. Calibration, succession, and leadership assessments should stay with humans; AI can aggregate inputs but cannot supply the nuance of real leadership observation. 5. HR's core job in the AI era is designing the human architecture around the technology: the measurement frame, the trust foundation, and the human/AI boundary. Guest links Azurée S. Montoute-Lewis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azureesmontoutelewis/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/azureesmontoutelewis/] Company Website: https://www.bursonglobal.com/ [https://www.bursonglobal.com/] Sponsor The Human Element is brought to you by Harper, Wisq's always-on AI HR Generalist transforming how work gets done. Powered by deep HR intelligence, Harper delivers instant, accurate, and empathetic support—from policy questions to performance coaching—so your people get answers fast and your teams stay focused. Learn more at https://www.wisq.com/ [https://www.wisq.com/]

How One Survey Fixed Three Issues in a Single Week Using AI

Summary A new hire fills out their 90-day survey and says they're not getting meaningful time with their manager. Instead of filing it away for a quarterly review, Bradford Wilkins pulls the data—and within ten seconds, AI shows him that the manager is spending nearly 50% of their time on pre-sales activities that aren't even part of their job.  Within a week, the team is redesigning job responsibilities, reallocating time, and building a fix that will accelerate ramp for every future hire in that department. In this episode of The Human Element, host Barb Bidan sits down with Bradford Wilkins, VP of People and Organization at Cognite, an industrial AI company, for a fast-moving conversation about what happens when you stop looking at people data in silos and start connecting it the same way you'd connect sensors in an oil refinery. Bradford walks through how Cognite is building knowledge graphs that layer engagement data on top of performance data on top of Salesforce data to surface correlations no one was seeing before, why he says 50% of his job is already gone (and why that's exciting, not scary), and his "cheesecloth" framework for AI-first thinking: push everything through AI first, and whatever's left on the other side is the human work. He and Barb also get into why entry-level hires who grew up on AI may be more valuable right now than your mid-career employees, how org charts are starting to include agent boxes alongside human ones, and why the best time to start was twenty years ago—but the second best time is now. Timestamps * 00:39 How Cognite connects people data the same way it connects industrial sensors * 04:30 The 90-day survey that triggered three fixes in a single week * 09:54 Where the biggest HR automation opportunities are right now * 12:59 "50% of my job is gone"—and why that's the exciting part * 14:12 What still requires the human touch: team composition, empathy, judgment * 19:42 Building trust by helping employees visualize where their jobs are headed * 23:51 Managing agents as direct reports: the new org chart * 26:35 Learning labs, AI champions, and building capability through show and tell Takeaways * Push every process through the "cheesecloth" of AI first—what's left on the other side is the genuinely human work * Connect your people data across silos (engagement, performance, time tracking, CRM) instead of analyzing each in isolation * Don't add AI on top of a bad process; you're just compounding the problem faster * Build trust by helping employees visualize what their jobs will look like after AI, not just telling them not to worry * Create learning labs and AI champion roles to drive adoption intentionally instead of hoping it happens organically * Recognize that entry-level hires who grew up on AI may be your most valuable asset right now for accelerating adoption Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradfordwilkins/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradfordwilkins/] Company website: https://www.cognite.com [https://www.cognite.com] Sponsor Wisq introduces Harper, your AI-powered HR service bot designed to act like a virtual HR generalist for every employee. No more waiting on emails or digging through policies—Harper gives your team instant answers to HR questions, helps them navigate benefits and policies, and even routes more complex cases to the right person. By handling the repetitive requests, Harper frees up your HR team to focus on strategy and people, while ensuring employees always feel supported. It’s a smarter, more consistent way to deliver HR services at scale. See Harper in action at https://www.wisq.com/ [https://www.wisq.com/] * (00:39) - How Cognite connects people data the same way it connects industrial sensors * (04:30) - The 90-day survey that triggered three fixes in a single week * (09:54) - Where the biggest HR automation opportunities are right now * (12:59) - "50% of my job is gone"—and why that's the exciting part * (14:12) - What still requires the human touch: team composition, empathy, judgment * (19:42) - Building trust by helping employees visualize where their jobs are headed * (23:51) - Managing agents as direct reports: the new org chart * (26:35) - Learning labs, AI champions, and building capability through show and tell

How to Drive AI Adoption Inside a Global Company

Summary In a regulated, data-rich industry like insurance, speed isn't the goal—credibility is.  In this episode of The Human Element, host Barb Bidan sits down with Elizabeth McSaveny, Chief People Officer at Zurich Canada, for a grounded conversation about what it actually looks like to drive AI adoption at scale inside a global enterprise. Liz leads people strategy for a company that already runs on data across underwriting, claims, and risk, which gives her a unique vantage point on how HR should show up in the AI conversation: not as the owner of the technology, but as the orchestrator of trust, clarity, and responsible use.  She shares how Zurich built ZuriChat—a GPT-based tool with enterprise guardrails—rolled out mandatory Copilot training with annual recertification, and why the gap between access and adoption is almost always a leadership problem, not a technology problem.  Barb and Liz also get into the distinction between artificial intelligence and augmented intelligence, why 70% of AI transformations fail due to leadership rather than tech, and what Liz is looking for in a new L&D hire tasked with building AI capability across the organization. She closes with practical advice for every HR leader: get comfortable with the tools yourself first, because your team is watching whether you actually use what you're asking them to adopt. If you lead people in a regulated industry or are trying to build AI adoption that sticks, this conversation will ground your approach. Timestamps * 01:06 Liz's intro and what leading people strategy means at a global insurer * 02:10 Why credibility matters more than speed in regulated environments * 05:26 Advice for HR leaders stepping into global or regulated roles for the first time * 07:39 How Zurich uses AI in underwriting, claims, and HR * 10:57 Building ZuriChat with enterprise guardrails and mandatory recertification * 16:57 Hiring an L&D leader focused on building AI capability * 23:27 What HR leaders are getting wrong: focusing on the tool instead of the mindset * 26:02 One action HR leaders can take this week Takeaways * Lead with clarity and trust, not speed—credibility is how you earn the right to move fast later * Close the gap between AI access and adoption by investing in leadership capability, not more tools * Require training and recertification for AI tools so employees understand both the power and the boundaries * Sell AI internally as an enabler of your day to day, not a separate initiative layered on top of existing work * Model AI use yourself before asking your team to adopt—they're watching whether you practice what you promote * Define what good innovation looks like before telling your team to "be innovative" Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-McSavaney-chrl-bsc-371377/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-McSavaney-chrl-bsc-371377/] Company website: https://www.zurichcanada.com/en-ca [https://www.zurichcanada.com/en-ca] Sponsor Wisq introduces Harper, your AI-powered HR service bot designed to act like a virtual HR generalist for every employee. No more waiting on emails or digging through policies—Harper gives your team instant answers to HR questions, helps them navigate benefits and policies, and even routes more complex cases to the right person. By handling the repetitive requests, Harper frees up your HR team to focus on strategy and people, while ensuring employees always feel supported. It’s a smarter, more consistent way to deliver HR services at scale. See Harper in action at https://www.wisq.com/ [https://www.wisq.com/] * (01:06) - Liz's intro and what leading people strategy means at a global insurer * (02:10) - Why credibility matters more than speed in regulated environments * (05:26) - Advice for HR leaders stepping into global or regulated roles for the first time * (07:39) - How Zurich uses AI in underwriting, claims, and HR * (10:57) - Building ZuriChat with enterprise guardrails and mandatory recertification * (16:57) - Hiring an L&D leader focused on building AI capability * (23:27) - What HR leaders are getting wrong: focusing on the tool instead of the mindset * (26:02) - One action HR leaders can take this week