The Limeleaf Podcast

10. Why Your Tech Startup Should Be a Worker Co-Op

Steve Giordano from Interstitial and Ethan Winn from Obran join us to talk about one of our favorite topics: worker co-ops! What they are and, more importantly, why we think they are a great corporate structure for tech startups. ALSO...HENHOUSE IS IN BETA! Henhouse [https://henhouse.coop], our new privacy-focused, small-tech web hosting co-op, is in private beta. If you want to test it out, contact us [info@henhouse.coop?subject=Henhouse%20Beta%20Tester]. If you want to support Henhouse, donate on Open Collective [https://opencollective.com/limeleaf/projects/henhouse]. SHOW NOTES AND LINKS GUESTS * Steve Giordano, Interstitial Technology [https://interstitial.coop/] * Ethan Winn, Obran Cooperative [https://obran.coop/] PODCASTS AND MEDIA * Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff [https://economicupdate.libsyn.com/] * Stuff You Should Know, "How Worker Co-Ops Work" [https://stuffyoushouldknow.com/episode/how-worker-co-ops-works/] * The Laura Flanders Show [https://lauraflanders.org/] * Upstream Podcast [https://www.upstreampodcast.org/] COOL CO-OPS TO CHECK OUT * Colab [https://colab.coop/] * Colorado Drivers Cooperative [https://www.coloradodrivers.coop/] * Comp.coop [https://comp.coop/] * CoTech (UK tech co-op network) [https://www.coops.tech/] * Hypha Worker Co-operative [https://hypha.coop/] * Igalia [https://www.igalia.com/] * IOCoop [https://iocoop.org/] * Platform Cooperativism Consortium [https://platform.coop/] ORGANIZATIONS AND NETWORKS * Cotech [https://www.cotech.coop/] * Cooperation Works! [https://cooperationworks.coop/] * Cooperative Economics Alliance of New York City [https://www.ceanyc.org/] * Democracy at Work Institute [https://institute.coop/] * ICA Group [https://ica-group.org/] * Launch.coop [https://launch.coop/] * National Cooperative Business Association [https://ncbaclusa.coop/] * New York City Network of Worker Cooperatives [https://nycworker.coop] * Patio [https://www.patio.coop/], Patio chat [https://patio.ica.coop] * Project Equity [https://project-equity.org/] * Start.coop [https://www.start.coop/] * US Federation of Worker Cooperatives [https://www.usworker.coop/en/], USFWC Slack channel [https://usworker.slack.com] * Worker's Co-Op [https://www.workers.coop/] LEGAL * CoopLaw.org [https://www.co-oplaw.org/] * Edward P. Swyer Justice Center at Albany Law School [https://www.albany.edu/justicecenter/] * DRGA (Argentine cooperative law firm) [https://drga.com.ar] * Jason Wiener, PC (cooperative attorney) [https://www.jrwiener.com/] * Sustainable Economies Law Center [https://www.theselc.org/] FINANCIAL * LIFT Fund [https://www.liftfund.com/] * Seed Commons [https://seedcommons.org/] * Shared Capital Cooperative [https://sharedcapital.coop/] * The Working World [https://www.theworkingworld.org/us/] * Transform Finance [https://www.transformfinance.org/] EVENTS * 2026 Worker Co-op Conference (September 26-27, Boston) [https://www.conference.coop/home/] * Co-Op Events Calendar [https://www.conference.coop/calendar/] * Platform Cooperativism Conference [https://platform.coop/events/] * USFWC Upcoming Events [https://www.usworker.coop/en/events] BOOKS * Collective Courage: A History of African American Cooperative Economic Thought and Practice by Jessica Gordon Nembhard [https://www.powells.com/book/collective-courage-a-history-of-african-american-cooperative-economic-thought-and-practice-9780271097510?condition=New] * Humanizing the Economy by John Restakis [https://www.powells.com/book/humanizing-the-economy-cooperatives-in-the-age-of-capital-9780865716513?condition=Used%20-%20Good] * Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini [https://www.powells.com/book/humanocracy-9781633696020?condition=Used%20-%20Good] * Ours to Hack and to Own edited by Trebor Scholz and Nathan Schneider [https://www.powells.com/book/ours-to-hack-to-own-the-rise-of-platform-cooperativism-a-new-vision-for-the-future-of-work-a-fairer-internet-9781944869335?condition=New] * Owning Our Future by Marjorie Kelly [https://www.powells.com/book/owning-our-future-the-emerging-ownership-revolution-9781605093109?condition=Used%20-%20Good] * The Making of a Democratic Economy by Marjorie Kelly and Ted Howard [https://www.powells.com/book/the-making-of-a-democratic-economy-how-to-build-prosperity-for-the-many-not-the-few-9781523099924?condition=Used%20-%20Good] * We Should Own The Economy by Elle Griffin [https://wefunder.com/elysianpress]

9. The Small-Tech Movement

This month, software engineer and systems builder Corey Snipes [https://coreysnipes.com] joined us to talk about small tech, digital sovereignty, LLMs, and why he's optimistic about the future of tech. Corey has 25 years of experience across security, cloud, and web-facing technologies. He likes to fix things, spend time in the woods, and play music. He's also a founding member of our Henhouse Computing Co-op [https://henhouse.coop]. Listen to all our episodes at limeleaf.coop/podcast [https://limeleaf.coop/podcast]. JOIN US AT ATMOSPHERECONF 2026! We're headed to Vancouver, BC, Canada from March 26-29 for ATmosphereConf 2026 [https://atmosphereconf.org]! If you'll be there, too, say hi. LINKS TO STUFF WE MENTION IN THE SHOW COREY'S LINKS * His personal blog [https://coreysnipes.com] * Mastodon [https://hachyderm.io/@coreysnipes] (also bridged to Bluesky) * His consultancy, Twomile Heavy Industries, Inc. [https://twomile.com] * His product, Review Star [https://getreviewstar.com/] * The Laptop Rehabilitation Project [https://elephant.computer] OTHER STUFF WE DISCUSSED * Henhouse [https://henhouse.coop] * “Now is the time to be digitally sovereign” letter to EC [https://news.err.ee/1608127618/estonia-eu-countries-propose-faster-european-digital-sovereignty] * EU Digital Markets Act [https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/index_en] * Aral Balkan on the Small Web [https://ar.al/2020/08/07/what-is-the-small-web/] * Small Tech Foundation [https://small-tech.org/] * Kitten [https://codeberg.org/kitten/app#kitten] * Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere (POSSE) [https://indieweb.org/POSSE] * Molly White on POSSE and Digital Sovereignty [https://www.citationneeded.news/posse/] * Molly White at SXSW 2025 [https://dot-social.simplecast.com/episodes/molly-white-sxsw-H28L236m] * US hits record 2.1 million new business applications [https://www.sba.gov/article/2025/01/17/us-hits-record-21-million-new-business-applications-sba-publishes-report-outlining-how-biden-harris] * atproto.com [https://atproto.com] * Activity Pub [https://activitypub.rocks/] * freeourfeeds.org [https://freeourfeeds.org] * Eurosky.social [https://eurosky.social] * Mastodon [https://joinmastodon.org] * Bluesky [https://bsky.app] * Ghost publishing platform [https://ghost.org/] * Micro.blog [https://micro.blog/] (Easy publishing and POSSE-style sharing to other platforms) * Bruno for API testing [https://www.usebruno.com/] and the Bruno vs Postman comparison [https://www.usebruno.com/compare/bruno-vs-postman#section-14]

8. 2025 in Review, and Our Plans for 2026

This month, we reflect on some 2025 highlights here at Limeleaf and look ahead at our plans for 2026. Topics include: Bluesky, ATProtocol, apply.coop, owning tech vs. renting it (i.e., SaaS), Silicon Valley's devolution from cuddly unicorn to bloodthirsty monster, tech ICs are the new working class, and more. ATMOSPHERECONF 2026 TICKETS ARE ON SALE! ATmosphereConf 2026 is happening in Vancouver in March! Attend in person or online for two days of AT Protocol-focused learning, networking, and fun. Limeleaf will be there, as will folks from Bluesky PBC [https://bluesky.social], Graze [https://graze.social], Blacksky Algorithms [https://blackskyweb.xyz], Streamplace [https://stream.place], Tangled [https://tangled.sh], and many other AT Protocol enthusiasts. Get your tickets now! [https://news.atmosphereconf.org/3m76dixo4is2w]! LINKS Bluesky Directory [https://blueskydirectory.com] apply.coop [https://apply.coop] Source Cooperative [https://source.coop] Means Media [https://means.tv] Panther Peak Studios [https://pantherpeakstudios.com] Comp.coop [https://comp.coop] Farox Cooperative [https://farox.coop] You Deserve a Tech Union by Ethan Marcotte [https://abookapart.com/products/you-deserve-a-tech-union.html] Seven Myths About AI and Productivity: What the Evidence Really Says [https://cmr.berkeley.edu/2025/10/seven-myths-about-ai-and-productivity-what-the-evidence-really-says/] Beyond the politics of nostalgia: What the fall of the steel industry can tell us about the future of America [https://frontiergroup.org/articles/beyond-the-politics-of-nostalgia-the-fall-of-the-steel-industry-and-the-future-of-america/] The Tech Workers Coalition [https://techworkerscoalition.org/]

7. Into the ATmosphere

In this episode, we discuss AT Protocol, a technology that underpins Bluesky [https://bsky.app] and many believe is the future of social media. ATProto pioneer Boris Mann @bmann.ca [https://bsky.app/profile/bmann.ca] educates us about AT Protocol, where it's used, why so many people are excited about it, and even how it's pronounced. Breaking news: In the episode, we discuss software patents as they relate to ATProto standardization. Today, Bluesky published a patent pledge [https://bsky.social/about/blog/10-01-2025-patent-pledge] vowing to "not enforce any of the patents on any software invention Bluesky Social owns now or in the future." The pledge includes IP related to ATProto. Progress! AT PROTOCOL SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT Do you have an idea for a Bluesky or AT Protocol product? Build it! Our team can guide you through every step, from defining requirements to launching your product, scaling your infrastructure to handle millions of users, and beyond. Learn more [https://limeleaf.coop/services/at-proto-development/]. LINKS Overview of the ATmosphere's potential from Dan Abramov [https://overreacted.io/open-social] AT Protocol Specification [https://atproto.com/guides/overview] AT Protocol on Github [https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto] Free Our Feeds, "A campaign to support open, people-powered social media" [https://freeourfeeds.com] Blacksky, "Decentralized tools for creating safe, independent online spaces" [https://blackskyweb.xyz] Boris' "Beyond Microblogging: AT Protocol for Building Unique Social Apps" post [https://bmannconsulting.com/notes/beyond-microblogging-atproto/] Alex Russell's post about web standards [https://infrequently.org/2025/09/standards-and-the-fall-of-iamus/] Toronto User Directory [https://discover.toronto.inc] SOME COOL ATPROTO APPS Leaflet - online publishing [https://leaflet.pub] Tangled - source code management [https://tangled.sh] Graze - custom feed creator [https://graze.social] Streamplace - video livestreaming [https://stream.place] Spark - decentralized social networking [https://sprk.so] Germ - secure chat [https://germnetwork.com] Semble - social knowledge network for researchers [https://semble.so] Smoke Signal - event planning [https://smokesignal.events] Flushes - uh, wtf? [https://flushes.app] Anisota - experimental social media interface [https://anisota.net] Recipe Exchange [https://recipe.exchange] Roomy Chat - group chat [https://roomy.space] Grain Photos - photo storage [https://grain.social] Anchor - geo checkins [https://dropanchor.app] Find many more at blueskydirectory.com [https://blueskydirectory.com]

6. Computer Science in Higher Education

This month, we talk about the state of computer science instruction in higher education, and how it's changing. What even is "computer science" these days? Do tech workers really need a degree in it? Should schools develop new degrees in topics like application development instead of coding and algorithms? Naturally, AI comes up in the conversation. We also cover some clever new robot slurs that have been making the rounds online. Don't be a clanker, give it a listen! apply.coop, our privacy-first job board for values-driven organizations, is in production! Visit apply.coop [https://apply.coop] and use promo code "solidarity" for free job postings! SHOW NOTES AND LINKS Slopsquatting [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slopsquatting] How ‘Clanker’ Became the Internet’s New Favorite Slur [https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/clanker-cogsucker-robot-ai-slurs-viral-1235401262/] Coding is dead: UW computer science program rethinks curriculum for the AI era [https://www.geekwire.com/2025/coding-is-dead-uw-computer-science-program-rethinks-curriculum-for-the-ai-era/]