Writing Without

Telling their story in their voice w/ Stephan Bisaha (NPR)

Today my guest is Stephan Bisaha. Stephan covers personal finance, business, and economics at NPR. You can hear him frequently on All Things Considered [https://www.npr.org/2026/05/06/nx-s1-5806596-e1/a-trip-to-europe-in-this-economy-expensive-flights-keep-vacations-closer-to-home] and The Indicator [https://www.npr.org/people/1242808013/stephan-bisaha] from [https://www.npr.org/people/1242808013/stephan-bisaha]Planet Money [https://www.npr.org/people/1242808013/stephan-bisaha]. He also performs at Faraway Theater [https://farawaybham.com/] in Birmingham, AL., which is where we met. In this episode we talk about his career in journalism and how he approaches writing for radio. When he was studying journalism, he discovered the power of people’s voices. It started when he listened to an episode on Radiolab called “Falling.” In it, there’s an interview between two people, Sarita and Simon, who broke up. The moment that struck Stephan was when Sarita shares that after her break up with Simon, she would walk by his restaurant. Because he had ‘face blindness’, he never recognized her. And you can hear him learn about her habit live (19:10 — 20:37 [https://radiolab.org/podcast/91726-falling/transcript]) — his voice cracking, his quiet reflection. Throughout his career, he has centered the protagonist’s voice in his reporting. Putting people back into the data One quality of someone’s voice is that it’s humanizing. In this episode, Stephan talks about this concept of re-humanizing data. Polls, stats, and surveys come from human beings. They’re about people. We can get used to reporting numbers — 50k users, 900 responders, 1mm site visitors — and forget that they are real people with, as Morrissey said, “loves and hates and passions just like mine.” Our job is to put life back into the figures so that our work is about the people we’re seeking to serve. One way to do this is to include the stories behind the numbers. Writing Without is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Side bar - you haven’t listened to Planet Money? In this episode, Stephan talks about NPR’s the Indicator and Planet Money. If you haven’t listened to this show, it’s the best business podcast that does not feel like a business podcast. I highly recommend listening to ‘Why Is The Milk In The Back Of The Store? [https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/09/21/494927147/episode-555-why-is-the-milk-in-the-back-of-the-store]’ and ‘The Fondue Conspiracy [https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/05/02/607787950/episode-575-the-fondue-conspiracy].’ What’s your favorite narrative podcast? Get full access to Writing Without at stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe [https://stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Reverse-engineering your writing w/ Kim Whitler

Today’s guest is Kim Whitler. Kim is a professor at the Darden School of Business at the University of Virginia. She was my professor at Darden and in my second year I was her research assistant. One thing I’ve always appreciated about her was her practical advice. One of her strengths was bridging the gap between theory and practice. She came into academia with a wealth of experience. She spent most of her career at Procter & Gamble, served as the general manager of the Breakfast Division for Aurora Foods, and was the CMO of David’s Bridal, the country’s leading bridal apparel retailer. In addition to being a prolific academic researcher, she publishes regularly in Forbes. I’ve included some recommended articles at the end of this post. In this episode, I talk to her about writing for different audiences, P&G’s writing culture, and dissecting writing. Here are my top three take aways from my interview with her: Writing Without is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Reverse-engineering writing: When Kim started writing for academic journals and then mainstream publications like Forbes, she learned how to write in those distinct styles by mirroring the structure and tone of those articles. She approached her writing by reverse-engineering what worked in those various publications. This is similar to this idea of ‘reading like a writer’, one of the core concepts that my wife Caroline talked about on her episode [https://stephendmann.substack.com/p/a-conversation-with-caroline-mann]. Once you discover the patterns or structures of writing you admire, you can add those techniques to your own writing. Adapting to the audience’s preferred style: It’s basic marketing, as Kim puts it. How you talk to one audience is not how you would talk to another audience. Yet we tend to have one approach – our style, what we know, what we like – and want people get on board with that. Instead, to be able to reach and engage with a particular audience, you need to adapt to their preferred style. Representing your thinking and your logic: One of the parts I enjoyed hearing about was how P&G revered writing. As Kim shared about her time there, P&G were aware that stylized PowerPoint decks could influence decision making. They stripped out the noise of formatting or visuals from their One Page Reco so that the ideas would be the star of the show. The logic needs to be there, plain enough to grasp in that small format. Style cannot cover for faulty logic or no logic. Hope you enjoy the episode. Check out these articles to learn more about Kim’s research: * The CMO Role is Broken. Here’s How to Fix It. [https://ideas.darden.virginia.edu/rethinking-the-CMO-role] * Working At These Companies May Be Your Stepping Stone To CEO [https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimberlywhitler/2023/10/31/these-employers-have-track-record-of-minting-ceos/] * New Research Indicates CEO Perception Of CMO Performance Is Improving [https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimberlywhitler/2024/01/16/new-research-indicates-ceo-perception-of-cmo-performance-is-improving/] Are there writers or journalists that you frequently draw inspiration from? Get full access to Writing Without at stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe [https://stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

A Conversation with Brian Barrett, Executive Editor at WIRED

Today’s guest is Brian Barrett. Brian Barrett is the Executive Editor at WIRED [https://www.wired.com/author/brian-barrett/]. He’s worked in journalism since 2006. We also do a monthly improv show at Faraway Theater in Birmingham, Alabama, called Pigeons [https://www.crowdwork.com/e/pigeons?date=2025-02-21T19%3A00%3A00&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAacpMGojIN8SnPG9HKuy0JuXR_DoAINCkOiHPdUhMtd4VcwMPbhs6rttr9g9Qw_aem_5vUfYUggnBvSOwYxlR3jqA]. In this episode, we talk about his career in journalism and his thoughts on reporting and managing journalists as the Executive Editor of WIRED. If you write in your job, you can benefit from learning how journalists approach their work. Journalists write for a broad audience and have to relay facts in a logical and plain way. One of the key stills you can practice as a writer is reading like one. Take an article you enjoyed and ask yourself: * What are the choices this journalist makes? * How does s/he convey information, even technical information? * How does s/he bring in sources? Then you begin to notice what you like and can incorporate those techniques into your style. Writing Without is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Find good examples of journalists and emulate their style. If you don’t have a favorite journalist, try reading these two writers that I enjoy: * Jason Gay, sports columnist at the Wall Street Journal. Here’s a great example of his work [https://www.wsj.com/sports/football/eagles-tush-push-6d7f51e4]. * David Brooks, opinion columnist at the New York Times. Start by reading this [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/10/opinion/literature-books-novelists.html]. And check out Brian’s work! What is the last best article you read? Get full access to Writing Without at stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe [https://stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

A Conversation with Film Journalist Marshall Shaffer

Today’s guest is Marshall Shaffer. Marshall is a freelance film journalist whose writings, interviews, and reviews appear in Slant Magazine [https://www.slantmagazine.com/author/mshaffer/], Decider [https://decider.com/author/marshall-shaffer/], the Playlist [https://theplaylist.net/author/marshall-shaffer/], and other outlets. He also has a newsletter that he’s been writing over 16 years called Marshall and the Movies [https://marshallandthemovies.substack.com/]. I highly recommend you subscribe to it and check out his monthly streaming recommendations (‘The Upstream’ [https://marshallandthemovies.substack.com/p/the-upstream-september-2025] and ‘The Downstream’). In addition to that, he’s been working in marketing for over 10 years, including working at the ad agency Ogilvy in New York. Thanks for reading Writing Without! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. We met in New York through my wife, Caroline, because they both went to Wake Forest together. He’s a delightful, affable human, so I was excited to interview him for this newsletter. In this episode, we talk about journalism, covering films, marketing, and how his two careers intersect (a subject he has covered in his newsletter [https://marshallandthemovies.substack.com/p/the-art-of-the-interview], too!). Enjoy. What is a passion of yours that you like to write about? Get full access to Writing Without at stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe [https://stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Krystle-Mei Chow and the Platinum Rule for Communicating Your Strategy

Today’s guest is Krystle-Mei Chow. Krystle-Mei worked at JPMorgan Chase for 6 years. We were on the Strategy team at Chase Travel together for a few years. She is now pursuing her MBA from Harvard Business School. In this episode, she shares tips on how to tell a story that connects with your audience and your customers. Key highlights include: * The Platinum Rule: Give the audience what they want. To do that, you need to be a good listener, know what type of information resonates with them, and understand what their level of knowledge about the subject is. Do they like high-level information? Do they like all of the details? Are they industry experts? * Making Slides Digestible: Random facts without context or sources are distracting for your audience and can work against your messaging. Helping your audience visualize your ideas by mocking it up can reduce their cognitive load. Thanks for reading Writing Without! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. Who is the best story teller you know at work? What do they do effectively? Get full access to Writing Without at stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe [https://stephendmann.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]