The Work Beneath the Work w/ Lindsey Lerner

The Withholding of Self: Elaine Lin Hering on Voice, Power, and Silence at Work

In this episode of ChatGMB, Marissa talks with Elaine Lin Hering, speaker, facilitator, former lecturer at Harvard Law School, and author of the USA Today bestseller Unlearning Silence: How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash Talent, and Live More Fully [https://elainelinhering.com/book/]. The conversation is both personal and practical, with a central premise that one of the biggest, if not the biggest, obstacles to good leadership, healthy teams, and real progress isn't a lack of confidence but silence. Elaine defines silence as the withholding of self for the comfort and convenience of others and breaks it into three layers: self-silencing, social silencing, and systemic silencing. Drawing on her own experience as the youngest daughter of an immigrant family and her career inside elite institutions, Elaine explains why telling people to "just speak up" misses the point entirely, and why so much leadership advice (be more confident, be louder, be more like the person who got promoted) is solving for the wrong problem. Together, we talk about: * Elaine's definition of silence and how it shows up in our lives and work * Why "just speak up" doesn't work, and what leaders should solve for instead * The danger of conflating organizational values with personal values * Red flags that a team or organization has a silence problem (hint: watch how leaders respond to bad survey scores) * The common ways leaders (including maybe even you) unintentionally silence others * The distinction between strategic silence (a tool) and oppressive silence (a trap) * Real-time processors vs. post-processors, and how to build cultures that work for both * Why "different" doesn't have to mean "wrong" on a team About Elaine Lin Hering: Elaine Lin Hering is a speaker, facilitator, and former lecturer on law at Harvard Law School who works with organizations and individuals to build skills in communication, collaboration, and conflict management. She has worked on six continents and facilitated executive education at Harvard, Dartmouth, Tufts, UC Berkeley, and UCLA. She has served as Advanced Training Director for the Harvard Mediation Program and as managing partner for a global leadership development firm, with clients including American Express, Chevron, Google, Nike, Novartis, PayPal, Pixar, and the Red Cross. She was named a Thinkers50 Global Management Thinker to Watch and is the USA Today bestselling author of Unlearning Silence: How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash Talent, and Live More Fully. Connect with Elaine: * Book: Unlearning Silence [https://elainelinhering.com/book/] * Free webinar: How to Speak Your Mind [https://elainelinhering.com/webinar/] (32-minutes) * Connect w/ Elaine on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/elainelinhering/] * Follow Elaine on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/elainelinhering/] Complementary Resources from Reloveution * Conflict Competence Skill Inventory [https://successful-pioneer-514.kit.com/31c50bbef3] * Minimizing Ambiguity & Maximizing Predictability Checklist [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIh65nodHjoq7UYwCsw6yQE3GE3wNwJs/view?usp=sharing] ChatGMB: Wisdom & Insights for Modern Leaders is produced for leaders, managers, and changemakers seeking insight, tools, perspective, and real talk on topics such as human-centered leadership, team culture, conflict transformation, burnout prevention, and more. There is no fancy editing or over-polished scripting. Tune in to hear me in all my imperfection, talking for as long as it feels "right" on the topics that light me up or set me on fire. If you like what you hear and want more wisdom and insights for your journey, sign up for our weekly-ish newsletter [https://www.truereloveution.com/newsletter]!! Have a question you'd like us to answer in a future episode? Submit questions (anonymous welcome) HERE [https://forms.gle/Ped9H7ncvjnFh4DF8]. ChatGMB is a production of Reloveution, a consulting and professional development services provider that leverages the magic of humanity to strengthen teams, deepen leadership impact, and catalyze professional well-being. From facilitating team retreats to leading leadership development programs to robust advisory services, we help you build the emotional and cultural conditions for human thriving AND exemplary business outcomes. Learn more at www.truereloveution.com [https://www.truereloveution.com/] You might also be interested in our focused conflict transformation practice RepairWorks. When tension rises, communication breaks down, or trust is broken, RepairWorks provides mediation, facilitated dialogue, advisory services, and training to help individuals, workplaces, teams, and established communities move through and transform conflict with clarity, accountability, and humanity. Learn more at www.conflictrepairworks.com [https://www.conflictrepairworks.com] About the Show GMB stands for “the Great Marissa Badgley” — a nickname my husband lovingly uses to remind me that I am great, good, competent, courageous, and enough. The name is also a playful nod to ChatGPT, which so many of us rely on for answers (maybe more than we should). Think of this as the human alternative: honest real talk, wisdom sharing, and actionable strategies on the specific leadership and culture topics that surface again and again in my consulting, coaching, and facilitation work.

Curiosity, Compassion, Clarity: A Better Framework for Change Management w/ Caitlin Harper

What do a closed office bathroom, a years-long sidewalk construction project, and a surprise $1,000 windfall have in common? They're all examples of disruptive change, and disruption, even when it's positive, carries a real cost for people, strategy, and outcomes. In this episode, Marissa speaks with Caitlin Harper, founder and principal strategist at Commcoterie [https://www.commcoterie.com], to dig into her work as a change management expert and consultant and to learn how leaders can "do change" better. Caitlin spent years leading change from inside organizations before realizing that "change management" was a real job people get paid for. Now, in her seventh year running her own business, she helps mission-driven leaders and teams design strategy, communicate change, and build the trust that enables sustainable transformation and real human buy-in. Marissa and Caitlin talk about why announcing a change is not the same as actually managing it, why "all change is harm" even when the change is good, and why trying to make everyone happy during a transition is not the right goal. They get into the difference between additive change (new tech, new processes) and subtractive change (program closures, team mergers, things going away), and why organizations so rarely plan for and often underresource the latter. Caitlin also shares her "curiosity, compassion, clarity" framework, explains why she'd rather lead with compassion than empathy, and gives managers concrete questions to ask leadership when they're stuck delivering a change they didn't design or maybe don't even agree with. In this episode, you'll learn: * Why "change management" happens in organizations before anyone calls it that * How power imbalances and lack of control shape the way people experience even small disruptions * Why transparency isn't really what people want even if they think they do * How to share strategy "in lieu of information" * Questions managers can ask leadership to advocate for their teams during a transition * Why compassion, not empathy, is the more sustainable leadership skill About Caitlin Harper: Caitlin Harper is a strategist and thought partner for leadership teams of mission-driven companies and nonprofits navigating constant change. For more than 15 years, she has designed strategies and led change across organizations large and small, working as an organizational change, internal communication, and operations leader. She is the founder and principal strategist of Commcoterie, where she helps values-driven organizations design strategy, navigate change, and build stakeholder communication that supports their missions. * Learn More About Commcotterie: https://www.commcoterie.com/ [https://www.commcoterie.com/] * Subscribe to Caitlin's Newsletter: https://www.commcoterie.com/newsletter [https://www.commcoterie.com/newsletter] * Listen to Caitlin on The Ways We Learn Podcast [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE0h15DZjQU] ChatGMB: Wisdom & Insights for Modern Leaders is produced for leaders, managers, and changemakers seeking insight, tools, perspective, and real talk on topics such as human-centered leadership, team culture, conflict transformation, burnout prevention, and more. There is no fancy editing or over-polished scripting. Tune in to hear me in all my imperfection, talking for as long as it feels "right" on the topics that light me up or set me on fire. If you like what you hear and want more wisdom and insights for your journey, sign up for our weekly-ish newsletter [https://www.truereloveution.com/newsletter]!! Have a question you'd like us to answer in a future episode? Submit questions (anonymous welcome) HERE [https://forms.gle/Ped9H7ncvjnFh4DF8]. ChatGMB is a production of Reloveution, a consulting and professional development services provider that leverages the magic of humanity to strengthen teams, deepen leadership impact, and catalyze professional well-being. From facilitating team retreats to leading leadership development programs to robust advisory services, we help you build the emotional and cultural conditions for human thriving AND exemplary business outcomes. Learn more at www.truereloveution.com [https://www.truereloveution.com/] You might also be interested in our focused conflict transformation practice RepairWorks. When tension rises, communication breaks down, or trust is broken, RepairWorks provides mediation, facilitated dialogue, advisory services, and training to help individuals, workplaces, teams, and established communities move through and transform conflict with clarity, accountability, and humanity. Learn more at www.conflictrepairworks.com [https://www.conflictrepairworks.com] About the Show GMB stands for “the Great Marissa Badgley” — a nickname my husband lovingly uses to remind me that I am great, good, competent, courageous, and enough. The name is also a playful nod to ChatGPT, which so many of us rely on for answers (maybe more than we should). Think of this as the human alternative: honest real talk, wisdom sharing, and actionable strategies on the specific leadership and culture topics that surface again and again in my consulting, coaching, and facilitation work.

Am I Gross for Staying?!

Should you leave a job that no longer feels aligned or an organization that is dysfunctional or toxic? Or is it okay to stay, even when things are messy, frustrating, toxic, or less than ideal? In this episode, we tackle a question that has come up multiple times in our community this month: "Am I gross for staying?" Whether you're considering a job change, feeling trapped by circumstances, or trying to make peace with staying in your role, this episode will help you reconnect with your agency and make choices that honor both your reality and your future. We explore: * Why staying in a difficult job does not make you weak, complicit, naive, or "gross" * The hidden shame created by workplace advice that assumes leaving is always the right answer * My personal story of burnout and the lessons I learned from staying too long * The difference between consciously choosing to stay and staying by default * How agency serves as a protective factor for well-being * Four ways to "stay well" if you're remaining in a challenging workplace * Herbert Simon's concept of "satisficing" and why good enough may be wiser than perfect * Eight reflection and discernment questions to help you discern whether to stay, leave, or build a bridge between the two Key Takeaways * Staying is a choice. Leaving is a choice. Staying while building an exit strategy is also a choice. * You are the only person qualified to weigh the costs and benefits of your own life. * Staying becomes dangerous when you stop protecting yourself. * Agency matters. The same situation feels fundamentally different when you believe you're choosing it. * Your health, integrity, and sense of self are not acceptable sacrifices for any organization. * Not every decision requires optimization. Sometimes "good enough for right now" is the wisest path forward. * The goal isn't to find a perfect answer, but to make a conscious one. The 8 Discernment Questions 1. What is keeping me here? 2. What is staying costing me? 3. What would staying for one more year (or any amount of time) cost me that I can never get back? 4. Is this situation static, fluid, temporary, or changing? 5. What would have to be true for staying to feel like the right choice? 6. What would have to be true for leaving to feel like the right choice? 7. Am I staying because I’ve decided to stay or because it's the default? 8. Do I want to stay or go? OR What do I notice in my body about staying or going? The Best Career Coaches I Know * Liz Vocacek [https://www.lizvocasek.com/] * Jess Wass [https://www.reworkit.co/] * Erin Ewart [https://www.careersforimpact.com] * Lee Crockett [https://leecrockett.com/] * Ali Dunn [https://www.alidunn.com/] * Valerie Friedlander [https://valeriefriedlander.com/] We're all here for you!! Please reach out if you need support! ChatGMB: Wisdom & Insights for Modern Leaders is produced for leaders, managers, and changemakers seeking insight, tools, perspective, and real talk on topics such as human-centered leadership, team culture, conflict transformation, burnout prevention, and more. There is no fancy editing or over-polished scripting. Tune in to hear me in all my imperfection, talking for as long as it feels "right" on the topics that light me up or set me on fire. If you like what you hear and want more wisdom and insights for your journey, sign up for our weekly-ish newsletter [https://www.truereloveution.com/newsletter]!! Have a question you'd like us to answer in a future episode? Submit questions (anonymous welcome) HERE [https://forms.gle/Ped9H7ncvjnFh4DF8]. ChatGMB is a production of Reloveution, a consulting and professional development services provider that leverages the magic of humanity to strengthen teams, deepen leadership impact, and catalyze professional well-being. From facilitating team retreats to leading leadership development programs to robust advisory services, we help you build the emotional and cultural conditions for human thriving AND exemplary business outcomes. Learn more at www.truereloveution.com [https://www.truereloveution.com/] You might also be interested in our focused conflict transformation practice RepairWorks. When tension rises, communication breaks down, or trust is broken, RepairWorks provides mediation, facilitated dialogue, advisory services, and training to help individuals, workplaces, teams, and established communities move through and transform conflict with clarity, accountability, and humanity. Learn more at www.conflictrepairworks.com [https://www.conflictrepairworks.com] About the Show GMB stands for “the Great Marissa Badgley” — a nickname my husband lovingly uses to remind me that I am great, good, competent, courageous, and enough. The name is also a playful nod to ChatGPT, which so many of us rely on for answers (maybe more than we should). Think of this as the human alternative: honest real talk, wisdom sharing, and actionable strategies on the specific leadership and culture topics that surface again and again in my consulting, coaching, and facilitation work.

The Work Beneath the Work w/ Lindsey Lerner

Lindsey Lerner is one of those people who makes you feel like the conversation you're having is the most important one you've had all week. She's an artist, documentarian, TED speaker, and creator of Field Notes from the Work (and the Wild [https://fieldnotesfromthework.substack.com/]), a project documenting the unseen rituals, invisible processes, and quiet realities that fuel creativity, community, and change. She's spent nearly two decades building startups, managing national music tours, shaping cultural policy, and leading creative strategy, always focused on the people and the persistence that makes things possible. Lindsey and I met in the early days of the pandemic, talked for hours about everything and nothing, and became fast friends and collaborators. Tune in to hear us talk about: * What it means to have a squiggly, nonlinear career (and why Lindsey thinks now is actually the best time to be a multi-hyphenate generalist) * How Lindsey went from art school dropout to anthropology student to music industry advocate to travel tech founder to field documentarian, and what connects all of it * What she's documenting, why it matters, and the five patterns that have shown up across every single story she's collected * Pattern 1: The work that people get paid for is rarely the real work * Pattern 2: Every story contains a permission moment — a day when someone stopped waiting to be chosen and started anyway * Pattern 3: The invisible process — the doubt, the preparation, the years of trying differently — is where the real work happens * Pattern 4: Fear appears right before meaningful work begins. It's not a warning. It's a signal. * Pattern 5: Meaningful work is always relational. You cannot do the real thing alone. * The questions leaders should be asking in interviews to get at the invisible — including "What do people often miss about what you do?" and "How do you know you're making progress when no one can see it?" * What Lindsey realized when she was hitting all the business markers of success and still feeling miserable, and what that taught her about the difference between what you do and who you are Find Lindsay: * Substack [https://fieldnotesfromthework.substack.com/] * LinkedIn: Lindsey Lerner [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsey-lerner/] * TEDxPrinceton: Why Doesn't Success Feel Like Enough? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5XWk9yOmM] Looking for support on your career journey, looking for support in answering your biggest questions, or noticing patterns you want to disrupt in your work or leadership? Check out our upcoming public events [https://www.truereloveution.com/public-programs] and on-demand coaching services [https://www.truereloveution.com/on-demand]! ChatGMB: Wisdom & Insights for Modern Leaders is produced for leaders, managers, and changemakers seeking insight, tools, perspective, and real talk on topics such as human-centered leadership, team culture, conflict transformation, burnout prevention, and more. There is no fancy editing or over-polished scripting. Tune in to hear me in all my imperfection, talking for as long as it feels "right" on the topics that light me up or set me on fire. If you like what you hear and want more wisdom and insights for your journey, sign up for our weekly-ish newsletter [https://www.truereloveution.com/newsletter]!! Have a question you'd like us to answer in a future episode? Submit questions (anonymous welcome) HERE [https://forms.gle/Ped9H7ncvjnFh4DF8]. ChatGMB is a production of Reloveution, a consulting and professional development services provider that leverages the magic of humanity to strengthen teams, deepen leadership impact, and catalyze professional well-being. From facilitating team retreats to leading leadership development programs to robust advisory services, we help you build the emotional and cultural conditions for human thriving AND exemplary business outcomes. Learn more at www.truereloveution.com [https://www.truereloveution.com/] You might also be interested in our focused conflict transformation practice RepairWorks. When tension rises, communication breaks down, or trust is broken, RepairWorks provides mediation, facilitated dialogue, advisory services, and training to help individuals, workplaces, teams, and established communities move through and transform conflict with clarity, accountability, and humanity. Learn more at www.conflictrepairworks.com [https://www.conflictrepairworks.com] About the Show GMB stands for “the Great Marissa Badgley” — a nickname my husband lovingly uses to remind me that I am great, good, competent, courageous, and enough. The name is also a playful nod to ChatGPT, which so many of us rely on for answers (maybe more than we should). Think of this as the human alternative: honest real talk, wisdom sharing, and actionable strategies on the specific leadership and culture topics that surface again and again in my consulting, coaching, and facilitation work.

When the Therapist Is Also the Boss w/ Laura Goldstein, LCMFT

Laura Goldstein and I met during pre-orientation week at Franklin & Marshall College, both of us drawn to community service before we could possibly know what that meant for our careers or futures. We lost touch for over a decade, reconnected through the magic of millennial social media lurking, and have ended up doing meaningful work together. She's attended our public retreats, brought me in to facilitate a day-long retreat with her team, and has become someone whose perspective I trust. Which is why I invited her to join me on ChatGMB! Laura is a licensed marriage and family therapist, founder of Montgomery County Counseling Center, and creator of TheraCourses. She's been doing this work for 14+ years, and she runs her practice in a refreshing way that is untraditional in the mental health world. This conversation is full of wisdom for any leader who is also a helper, a business owner, or someone trying to figure out how to build a culture that reflects their values and the world they want to live in. In the episode, we explored: * How Laura went from pre-med to therapist to practice owner, and what she would have told her college self * Why she chose to grow slowly and intentionally, and what she thinks leaders get wrong when they hit the gas too fast * What it's actually like to run a mental health practice with a people-over-profit model, including a recent big shift from commission-based pay to salary * The irony of mental health organizations being some of the most toxic workplaces that exist, and how she's trying to do it differently * The line between being a therapist and being a boss, and what happens when therapy language shows up in a management conversation * Why compassion and accountability are not opposites, and how DBT's core dialectic maps directly onto the leadership work I do * What it means that "you can't read the label from inside the jar," and why even the most skilled helpers need support from the outside * Laura's number one piece of advice for modern leaders Connect With & Learn More About Laura * Montgomery County Counseling Center [https://mccounselingcenter.com/] * TheraCourses [https://theracourses.com] * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-goldstein-98084289/] Interested in Going Deeper w/ Reloveution? * Our Newsletter [https://www.truereloveution.com/newsletter] * One Day Leadership Intensive: The Feedback Lab [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OxL4V4Mef7UX9SG7kYxscKUNSs-pVHpkJ761p7e9Hjc/edit?usp=sharing] * Workshop Series: Emotional Integrity at Work: Building a Culture of Accountability & Psychological Safety [https://docs.google.com/document/d/19Wwk2I1-sTv8kJ-Ytqxd9vQkHCvm6rImMygg9X--M_Q/edit?usp=sharing] ChatGMB: Wisdom & Insights for Modern Leaders is produced for leaders, managers, and changemakers seeking insight, tools, perspective, and real talk on topics such as human-centered leadership, team culture, conflict transformation, burnout prevention, and more. There is no fancy editing or over-polished scripting. Tune in to hear me in all my imperfection, talking for as long as it feels "right" on the topics that light me up or set me on fire. If you like what you hear and want more wisdom and insights for your journey, sign up for our weekly-ish newsletter [https://www.truereloveution.com/newsletter]!! Have a question you'd like us to answer in a future episode? Submit questions (anonymous welcome) HERE [https://forms.gle/Ped9H7ncvjnFh4DF8]. ChatGMB is a production of Reloveution, a consulting and professional development services provider that leverages the magic of humanity to strengthen teams, deepen leadership impact, and catalyze professional well-being. From facilitating team retreats to leading leadership development programs to robust advisory services, we help you build the emotional and cultural conditions for human thriving AND exemplary business outcomes. Learn more at www.truereloveution.com [https://www.truereloveution.com/] You might also be interested in our focused conflict transformation practice RepairWorks. When tension rises, communication breaks down, or trust is broken, RepairWorks provides mediation, facilitated dialogue, advisory services, and training to help individuals, workplaces, teams, and established communities move through and transform conflict with clarity, accountability, and humanity. Learn more at www.conflictrepairworks.com [https://www.conflictrepairworks.com] About the Show GMB stands for “the Great Marissa Badgley” — a nickname my husband lovingly uses to remind me that I am great, good, competent, courageous, and enough. The name is also a playful nod to ChatGPT, which so many of us rely on for answers (maybe more than we should). Think of this as the human alternative: honest real talk, wisdom sharing, and actionable strategies on the specific leadership and culture topics that surface again and again in my consulting, coaching, and facilitation work.