DGS 341: Property Management Growth Without Hiring Headaches

DGS 341: Property Management Growth Without Hiring Headaches

In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason Hull and Sarah Hull discuss the launch of the Door Machine, DoorGrow's new growth-focused program designed to help property management companies scale faster by handling the hiring, training, support, and systems behind business development and sales. Breaking down why most property management companies struggle to grow, the biggest mistakes owners make when hiring salespeople, and how having the right systems, accountability, targeting, pricing, and support can completely transform a property management business. You'll Learn [00:01] Introduction to the Door Machine [03:20] Why Most Sales Hires Fail [08:10] The Systems Behind Property Management Growth [14:40] The Three Keys to BDM Success [21:30] Fixing Targeting, Pricing, and Offers [31:20] How the Door Machine Partnership Works Quotables "If you have a system that's working, you really don't have a problem." "If you take a good salesperson and plug them into a broken system, it's going to break." "At best, if you're running a company and you are the salesperson, you will always be a shitty part-time salesperson at best." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:01) Five, four, three, two, one. All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we've brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses, the business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so in today's episode, we're gonna be chatting a little bit about the new offer. I think we mentioned it previously, I don't know, on an episode, but we're gonna be talking about the door machine. It's evolved a little bit since then, but we're gonna talk about the door machine, our new offer, our new program for property management business owners that want to grow. So we had teased in the previous episode, we chatted briefly about it, we never really dug into details. And now we're ready to do that because the door machine is officially live. So if you are interested in growing your property management business and you want growth to just magically happen for you, if you ever think Jeez, it'd be so nice if I could just miraculously get to like 500 doors, 800 doors, 1200 doors, whatever that number is in your head, and you wanna get there, it would be awesome if it would just like poof and happen. You know the magic wand? Like if you had a magic wand, you could just snap your fingers and have the business of your dreams at whatever size or count that's going to be, then this is for you. This is going to be for you. Cool. So basically the simple idea of the door machine is we are looking for businesses to basically partner with that we can help grow and scale their business. We will add the doors, you manage them. It's that simple. And we will also help you to be able to keep up with the growth by giving you access to our super system level of our mastermind as part of this deal. So So the way this works is if you're one of our clients that's gone through the process of cleanup and the rapid revamp and all that then you're probably meet the prerequisites. You've got healthy branding, you've got a healthy website, you've got the right pricing model, we have a very innovative three-tier hybrid pricing model that we install in clients' businesses. You've got maybe financial health going in the business, profit first. ⁓ Some of these, there's some prerequisite basics. If you do not have all that, you have not been part of our program, we will come out for two days. Two days? we will come in, on how messy your business is, but we'll come out for two days and we will basically rehab your business. We will help redo your branding. We will redo your pricing. We will redo your website. We will redo your, like the whole front end of the business so that we have a really good program and offer to sell if we're selling people on your property management business. And so we have this launch intensive that we will come out and do. It is not inexpensive, but it is, I believe, ridiculously cheap for the value that we offer at the present because we're because it pays for itself as well. Easily pay for itself. So we will come out and do the process that a lot of our clients do over the first quarter with us. We will do it. rapidly with you and you need to be open to making changes if you're the right fit for this, but we will come out and do this launch intensive with you at your location. and I will come out. After we get that done, we will then build out the hiring mechanism and we will get a salesperson and the salesperson is going to work for DoorGrow. We will train, coach, support this person in your local market. and help them to be able to build their own sort of little business, growing your business. And so this is kind of, it's a win-win-win for all three parties. It's a win for this person that's going to build this sort of business, creating growth for your business. It's going to be door grow, being able to manage this relationship and maintain the quality level with this business development manager, this BDM or salesperson and the business owner. we will coach and support the business owner yourself in making sure that the business can remain scalable as we start adding 100, 200, 300 doors a year to your business so that you don't break. Because this is a big challenge and we've helped a lot of people with this. So how does this work? Well, normally, if you're gonna hire a salesperson, how would this look? So if you do it the right way, then usually you start with creating a... you create your RDoC, is just a fancy word for job description. You will do some sort of job post somewhere, indeed LinkedIn, wherever that ends up going. Then you start getting applications and you start screening applications. Well, let's skip to the financials because we don't need to tell them the whole process of what we'll do. We're going to. Okay. All right. Here, continue. Then you get to do a bunch of interviews. and then you bring someone on, you onboard them, you train them, and then you continuously and every single day support them. And that's where, well, in all of that, at various stages, most people fail. Yeah, somewhere. So sometimes they never even create their company culture documents, and then they wonder why they can't hire the right person. Yeah. Sometimes they don't create the right job description, and they wonder why they can't hire the right person. They don't know how to properly interview and screen candidates. Or when they have the right person and everything has worked out and then they hire this person, then they just kind of throw them in the fire and they go, all right, go do sales. I hope you can figure it out. And there's a little bit of training, but there's really not a system that you can just plug this person into. This salesperson has to figure out and go build a system. and most of times they don't know how to do that. And then it's not working out and the business owner is upset and the person that got hired is upset because no one is winning and no one is making money. Both parties are frustrated usually with the other one. The person who got hired is upset because they're like you like have nothing. This is a whole guessing game and nothing is working and I don't know what to do and you also don't know what to tell me to do. And then the sales person or the ⁓ business owner is upset with the sales person because they're going, well, geez, I hired you to be able to figure all of this out and you didn't figure it out. And now I wasted a whole bunch of time and money. And that's why usually it fails. So you can do that. You can absolutely figure it all out yourself. Everything is figured out. if you learn enough and know enough and figure out, know, if you, if you waste enough time, you can figure it all out eventually. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. You certainly can. Yeah. Most people don't really have a good system for hiring and definitely not for training because we've seen it again and again where people will hire someone who is great for a sales position and then it doesn't work out. And then they go, this isn't working. I think I to let this person go. How do I have that conversation? Like, what should this look like? And when should I do that? And why, you know, do I, what do I tell them? Like, why am I making this decision? And usually that's the end result that they get. And then they kind of get to go back to the beginning and they get to reassess and they go, okay, should I try this whole thing all over again? Or should I just do something different so you can absolutely do that if you know how to do this by all means go do it or You can just push the easy button and let us handle all of that for you including the training and including the support and that's where a lot of people they Just don't want to do it. They don't have a system. That's already built to put a salesperson into they bring on that salesperson and expect them to build the system. And most salespeople aren't good at building systems. They're good at selling, but they're not good at building a sales system. So if you take a good salesperson and plug them into a broken system, it's going to break. But there's a big disconnect there. So we build the system. We will do the recruiting. the screening, the interviewing, the onboarding, the initial training, the ongoing training, and all of the support, daily support for these salespeople so that they will consistently learn and grow and get better and sharpen their skills and figure out what is working and what isn't working and how do I double down or triple down on the things that are working so that I can get results as quickly as possible because they're motivated, they want to make money. Salespeople, they like winning. They want to make money. That's how they win is when they close deals. So the easiest way to like deflate a sales team is to make it almost impossible to close deals. That's what we've noticed. So then we decided to just fix all of those issues on the back end. And instead of leaving it to business owners who are already busy, who if they had the system for growth, they would probably not need a salesperson. because they already have the system. If you have a system that's working, you really don't have a problem. But a lot of times they don't have a system and they don't have someone who is going to consistently do sales. They usually have somebody who's kind of dabbling in it. Usually it's them. Sometimes they have somebody who's part-time or they have like a real estate agent looking to make some extra bucks on the side. But there's not a real system and there's not real dedication to sales. And the ones that have a system and the ones that have actual dedication to sales, those are the companies that you see that get two, four, six, a thousand doors. That's why you see that. So that was something that we noticed is, hey, this ends up being complicated for some people and actually probably the majority of people to do. So we just built this system and that is what the door machine does. So we will handle all of that work for you so that all you need to do is manage the doors that we give you. All right, so let's talk about why this is hard for people. So Sarah brought up several good points about getting a salesperson. We focus on hiring. First, if you're gonna do this yourself, you've gotta make sure you get the right person. That's the first problem to figure out. And the right person has to be the right They culture fit for the business, otherwise you're not going to trust them. They have to be the right personality fit for the role, otherwise they won't be good at this. They have to be the right skill fit or intellectual fit to be able to develop the skill or talent to be able to do this job. So that's hiring. If they're not all three, they're going to fail. Always do. And if any team members you have right now are not all three, you have to let them go. It's inevitable. Your business will never be able to grow if you have bad people. The next piece, assuming you get all three of those nailed and you have as good of a hiring system as we do, then the next piece is the BDM or salesperson has to have three key ingredients to BDM success or they always fail. Fail means they aren't making enough money so they quit or they're not making you enough money so you fire them or they're not. kept, they're too comfortable, so they get lazy. Either way, it's not working, and so they will either quit or you will fire them. And this happens all the time. The issue is not going to companies and getting somebody to help you with hiring. Lots of people help you hire BDMs, but they still fail. And the failure after the hiring piece, if that was done well, is it's not because they didn't have the right personality, it's not because they don't share your values, and it's not because they don't have the skill to do it. Those companies will usually show them or train them or whatever. It's because of you. That's the tough love. So here's how this works. You have to have these three ingredients. They have to have the right training and strategy. That's number one. If they're doing stupid stuff, if they're focusing on cold leads, digital marketing stuff, all the stuff that you probably are gonna heap on them, you are holding them back and you're giving them low level garbage stuff to deal with, cold crappy leads. they are not going to be able to grow quickly your business or scale and they're not going to be able to win. So they have to have the right training and the right growth engines that we would help them install. Second, they have to have the right comp structure. If they don't have the right compensation, compensation is incentive. Compensation is motivation for the right candidates, people that don't hate money, that are salespeople. And if the comp structure is off, they will either get lazy and comfortable because you paid them too well, or they will get lazy and uncomfortable because they'll just get unmotivated because it's not working. ⁓ Or they just won't do the leading activities because you're trying to just make it commission only. There's so many mistakes with compensation and there is a formula for making this work. And we've seen this fail over and over and over again. They are not motivated, but they are the right personality for this. You designed the role incorrectly, and you probably designed the financial compensation wrong, and that's on you. The third thing you have to get dialed in is accountability. They have to be accountable. If they're not accountable, if you're not, if you are not able to guide them and see where they're stuck and where there's drop-off in their sales flow or in the pipeline, if you can't see it, They probably aren't seeing it either. And so they will keep doing the same dumb stuff, getting the same dumb result, and you will both be frustrated. And they will give up on this idea of selling property management, and you will give up on the idea. And there's, even before we get to all of these challenges, the three fits for hiring, the three keys to BDM success, there's some fundamental, foundational ingredients for the business that we help clean up that come even before that, where you have to have the right target audience, A lot of property managers don't have this dialed in. They don't have the right target, which means they're targeting people incorrectly. means probably they're doing digital cold lead marketing, they're doing ads, they're spending a bunch of money. And most companies spend 20 to 30 % of their top line revenue just to bring in leads. And so they're wasting money there and have bad strategy there. The other piece to this is ⁓ you have to have the right You have to have the right product. A lot of you think you're selling property management and nobody gives a shit about property management. Nobody wants to buy it. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, man, I'm so excited to buy something today. And somebody says, what is it? What is it, Jason? my gosh, I'm so excited to go buy property management today. You are selling the wrong product. And if you're selling to the wrong audience, and attracting the wrong owners and the cheapos and the accidentals and all the owners that you don't want because you're doing the wrong tactics and then you're selling the wrong product. Then the third thing is you also probably have the wrong offer and the wrong pricing. And so this is stuff we have to get dialed in. It's foundational. I've never had somebody come to me that had those three ingredients dialed in. We have to get those three dialed in first. Then we dial in the three fits. Then we dial in the three keys to BDM success. This is the stuff we would come out and help you get done. And we can do it fast because we've done this hundreds of times. We could do this. I've been running DoorGrow for a decade, almost two decades now, almost two decades, over a decade and a And we have expertise in helping people get this stuff dialing quickly. So, That would be the first part of this. Now, if you're gonna go out and do this yourself, you're then gonna, you get a BDM. All of these things are dialed in. For some reason, you magically figured this all out on your own through trial and error. The next piece is now you've got to pay this person a commission, some sort of commission. And then you're gonna have to spend money on some sort of base. And you've got all of these different things that you've gotta get dialed in correctly. And if you have this done, then you'll probably be adding doors and then, It'll be working. Here's what how we set up the door machine so that we can take over all this for you. So you'll pay door grow, you'll pay door grow a commission, you'll pay for each door that's added off the first month's rent. You'll pay ⁓ base salary or base dollar amount to door grow ⁓ each month. And as part of that base, we offset a good portion of that by giving you access to our super system level of our mastermind, which includes all the systems you're going to need in order to scale your business. call the super system and you get access to the in-person events and the cohort and all the amazing people that are in our program. You're then also going to pay instead of paying, spending money on marketing, because you're not going to have to pay for leads and do stupid digital, cold lead, whatever advertising. Our salesperson is going to be trained in doing this effectively and we'll be generating warmer leads that have a higher close rate. We will handle all that. so DoorGrow residualy will get 20 % of the management fee. Instead of spending 20%, 30 % like a lot of businesses do on your top line revenue, just to acquire new customers and to do digital marketing or ads, you'll spend 20 % of the management fee, which is way less. For a lot of you, might be if average rent's 2K in a lot of areas throughout the US, your management fee maybe is 10%, which is, or worse, which is typical. ⁓ We'll help you install a better pricing model than that. But you're doing something like that and you're probably getting then $200 on the door. You're making a lot of money on other things, maintenance, whatever, but $200 for the management fee and then door grows, percentage would be 40 bucks, it'd be 20%. And so $40 and originally designed this so we grow as you grow and this is, you know, a partnership is forever, but we put a cap on it to make this even more enticing. It drops off each door in the door machine that you add that 20 % dies or drops off. So you get a hundred percent of it at the 36 month mark. So three years in it drops off. So that puts a cap on what door grow can make with you depending on how much the BDM can add each year. And so that caps our upside, which is better for you to make this even sweeter. And so there's a relationship. There's more details to it than that. We'd be happy to send you the offer doc if you're interested in this offer. ⁓ Really who we're looking for generally are 500 or plus companies that have a healthy team, healthy culture, will help you get these initial things cleaned up. You'll pay. ⁓ Okay, we won't mention all the specifics on the dollar amounts, but this is how this works financially. Same thing you would probably have to pay towards a BDM. You'll pay the door girl and we will take care of this for you and growth. This is a good fit for those of you that you have the money right now to go hire somebody and spend money, maybe five grand, six grand a month on a person ⁓ to hire somebody, then financially you probably could afford to do this and it would make sense. If that's not you right now, and then this is probably not a fit for you. Anything else you want to say about the Dormachine? So don't just... if you can afford five or six. to that. Sure. one. Number two. No, it's not only this may be a fit for some smaller companies as well. So doesn't mean hey, you know, don't have 500 doors yet. Therefore, I can't do it. You can still do this. It might be a fit for you. I would see if you would benefit from a conversation with our sales team on that to just kind of learn more about it, get more information, get some of the specifics of the numbers and see, know, hey, what is pressing the easy button on growth actually worth for you? Because your role in this, we handle all of the front end of your business. So growing the business is no longer something that you need to think about or worry about at all. And if you're not sure if this is a fit for you, if you're wanting to get those first three foundational things dialed in with us, which is the targeting, the product, and the offer. And if you wanna meet with us, we have a three session thing where we will work with you one-on-one, help you get these three things dialed in over three sessions, which is the foundation, and help you figure out what your roadmap and plan might be. It might be joining one of our different tiers of our mastermind. It might be getting some help with hiring. It might be getting into this door machine. But we have a small, inexpensive offer for that where we will help you get those three things dialed in and help you roadmap the future to figure out what would be the best fit moving forward. We call that the PM Growth Leak Audit, where we audit the leaks that you have right now that are preventing your growth and help you see some of the blind spots that you can't even see in your business right now, which is why it's been so hard for you to grow. And then we'll help you figure out what the next steps might be that would make the most sense based on what your constraints are related to budget, related to time, investment, whatever. And so reach out to us and just say, hey, I'd be really interested in that audit that Jason mentioned on the podcast. Cool. Anything else we should add? That's it. this might be for you, it's probably worth at least a... also say that this will not be for everyone or this will not be for you right now. It might be a later thing instead of a now thing. It might be an everything. You might be able to handle everything all yourself and that's okay. ⁓ What I would also say too is keep in mind that a lot of times people kind of peter out on doing sales after a while. This is something that will continue to grow the business for you because it doesn't depend on you at all. aren't involved in it. The reality is a lot of our clients, once we help them figure out growth and we get stuff out of them, they start growing stuff themselves. They realize and figure out eventually they either don't enjoy doing the sales or it's creating a really strong constraint in the business. At best, if you're running a company and you are the salesperson, you will always be a shitty part-time salesperson at best. You don't have full-time bandwidth. And if you don't have a growth problem, then this isn't even relevant to you at all. So if you're having some challenges, then reach out to us. We have a proven track record. We're the best in the world at helping people do this. We've been doing this for almost two decades now. And we can help you get this dialed in. And we want to see you win. We're looking for really good, awesome people. and humans to be part of our stuff, especially for the door machine and the cohort really of the caliber of people that we've already gotten into the door machine. These are going to be the coolest people. So the cohort aspect of this is another plus. think it's probably the best upside is that you get to be around other people that are experiencing the door grow magic and they're buying, they're growing and they're scaling. and they're doing things in a different way than the entire industry. And that's what we bring to the table at DoorGrow. So if you want to get your company to not have all the same blind spots and constraints and you want to start innovating your business, reach out to us at DoorGrow. You can check us out at doorgrow.com, schedule a call with us, have a chat. If you'd like a free training on how to get unlimited leads for free, text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners by going to doorgro club.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, and to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgro.com slash subscribe. And if you found this episode even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. Until next time. Remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. and you can do that with the door machine for sure. All right, bye everyone.

DGS 340: Breaking the Cycle of Suck in Property Management

Recently, one of our clients, Derek Morton, shared an incredible story from a networking event where he transformed his booth into a blackjack table to illustrate that property owners shouldn't "gamble" with their rentals. When a prospect tried to pressure Derek into matching a competitor's price by a mere half-percent, Derek firmly refused, explaining that he refuses to build a portfolio around owners willing to jump ship over such tiny margins.12 In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the vital importance of being selective about who you serve and why taking on "bad" owners creates a "cycle of suck" that destroys profitability and personal happiness. Jason and Sarah explore the foundational mistake of targeting everyone, explaining that identifying exactly who you want to serve is the first step in building a business. They apply the "Pumpkin Plan" principle of clearing rot from a business to prevent bad clients from spreading negativity throughout an entire operation.345 The discussion also highlights how poor client filtering leads to a "cycle of suck" featuring bad properties, bad tenants, and bad reviews, which ultimately traps owners in a "race to the bottom" on price. By being picky, business owners can significantly lower operational costs and achieve elite profit margins, sometimes reaching 60% to 90%. Finally, the hosts introduce a three-day initiative designed to help entrepreneurs diagnose why their growth has stalled and how to pivot toward attracting "good" clients rather than just "any" clients. You'll Learn [01:08] - The Blackjack Table Lesson: A story about a client using a blackjack-themed booth to teach owners not to "gamble" with rentals and why he refuses price-shoppers. [05:50] - The Pumpkin Plan & The Cycle of Suck: Applying Mike Michalowicz's "Pumpkin Plan" to clear out "rot" and avoid the downward spiral of bad properties and tenants. [07:46] - Maximizing Profit Margins through Selectivity: How being picky lowers operational costs and enables elite profit margins between 50% and 90%.4 08:30 - Diagnosing Stagnant Growth: Introducing a new three-day team-led initiative to help stalled businesses identify why they are stuck and create a fix. [11:34] - Avoiding the "Property Management" Product Trap: Why selling "property management" is the wrong approach and the importance of a unique offer for your target audience. Quotables "If we took on every owner and if we took on the wrong owners, we would no longer be happy, and we would no longer love what we do. And this would become a real pain in the ass." "If you target everyone, you are guaranteed to be miserable in your own business." "You can only have a ridiculously good margin in your business if you're picky about your clients." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:00) Alright, five, four, three, two, Alright. What was that? Something broke. Five, four, three, two, one. Hans goes, smash. All right, Hans, out of here. We have a dog in, two dogs in here. All right, we're going to try that over again. Five, four, three, two, one. All right, I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. This is Sarah Hull, the COO of DoorGrow, co-owner. And we're the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential. property management entrepreneurs on the planet. We're the best on the planet. So for over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to build the industry, transform it. There's a dog walking around on my feet right now. Change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management. entrepreneurs when now let's get into the show. is awesome. I love when she brings the dogs in right before the show. He's like running into stuff like cables are falling down. I don't even know what I I'm gonna have to find what he did and try to fix it. I don't even know. Good times. All right. So what are we chatting about today? Sarah? I was going to share some good news that one of our clients was messaging back and forth with me on the weekend. Derek Morton, he's out in Utah and he was at an event over this weekend and it was a really cool event. I wish I could have been there, but he, like everybody gets their booth, right? You get your booth and you have your setup and everybody hopefully comes over and you get some leads. That's not how Derek does things. at all. So Derek gets a booth and turns it into, I think it was Blackjack. And there, I mean, he had the the dice and the table set up and he got a, ⁓ a, a card dealer and he had the chips, but the chips were like customized with his brand name. And the whole thing looks amazing. It was, it was really awesome. And the theme was, don't gamble with your rentals. Right? So obviously... Very cute, very clever. Yeah. One of the way more interesting booths at an event. Yeah. Come play blackjack. Now, it's not gambling. That's not legal, but they did have blackjack, so you can come play hand, but it wasn't gambling. And there was a lot of interest at the booth. There was a lot of excitement at the booth, which is great. And there was a property owner that was at their booth, Derek was there, and the guy was saying, yeah, you know, I've got five units and I work with this other property manager now. Derek said, yeah, that's great. It's awesome. Like, how are things going? And he's like, yeah, things are going well. Like, I like the property manager. That's great. And I guess he was expecting to be sold too, because then he was kind of like, and so, you know, what would you do for me then? And Derek said, well, Like, you know, this is kind of what we do. This is what we offer. And the guy was like, all right, well, how much do you charge? And he, you know, was telling him, hey, you know, we've got some plans you can kind of choose from. And the guy said, well, you know, my current property manager, they charge, I think it was like 7%, whatever it was, who knows. Let's call it 10 % because that's really common in the industry. So, all right, well, my property manager charges 10%. And essentially it was, you know, what are you going to do for me? And. Derek goes, yeah, this is where we sit. And the guy goes, you're not going to try to beat it. He's like, no, no, we're not. He goes, let me ask you something. If you're at 10 % right now, if we charged, if we did like 9 and 1 percent, would you switch over to us? And the guy said, yeah, yeah, I would do that. I switch over. And he goes, for 9 and 1 half percent, yeah, I'll switch over. Yeah. And Derek said, yeah, and that's exactly the type of owner that we don't take on. Okay. The guy was flabbergasted, not expecting that at all. He said, well, you know, listen, with all due respect, you know, I just met you. We're having a conversation. You're at my booth. You know, you're playing some blackjack. That's great. If you're ready and willing to dump the property manager that you work with over half of a percentage, which ends up being like five bucks in a 20 minute conversation, then where is that going to lead me? So pretty much anyone that undercuts that price, you're just going to jump ship. didn't even try to do anything and you're already ready to jump ship over half of a percent. He said, yeah, we don't take on owners like that. That's not when we build our portfolio around. And that was such a cool message for me to get. I love that. ⁓ And I was really excited that that's just Derek. A lot of people would be like, well, you we don't really do that. Derek is like, yeah, that's exactly the type of owner that we don't take on. He's so, he's not like, doesn't, yeah, he doesn't, he pull punches at all, which is great. That's why we like him. But really, he said to me, you know, one of the things that we've done really well, and they're a sizable company. And he said, but we, we're happy. We love what we do. And really that's a testament to the owners that we work with. And if we took on every owner, and if we took on the wrong owners, we would no longer be happy and we would no longer love what we do. And this would become a real pain in the ass. And that's just not what I'm looking for. Because I love what we do. And part of that is being able to say no to the people who aren't a fit. Yeah, I love it. I mean, before you start a business, the very first thing you need to figure out is who do I actually want to work Who do I want to serve? That's the foundation of the business and a lot of times people are like everyone. And if you target everyone you are guaranteed to be miserable in your own business. That means you're not going to filter out anyone. You're going to just let everybody in. Really good book on the subject is The Pumpkin Plan by Mike McCallewitz and he talks about this principle. He's been on my podcast twice. Our podcast now. So, but he's been on here twice. And he's also spoken at our DoorGrowth live conference and sharing this principle is basically, you know, if you allow everything to be in your business, then your business is gonna be full of rot and rot spreads. It compares it to a pumpkin patch. You have to clear out the moldy crows pumpkins or the rot spreads. And ⁓ Derek, you know, he's smart because... he probably at some point had some of that in his business, was like, this isn't worth it, this isn't the type of people I wanna deal with, they're not treating my team and my staff appropriately or kind. some people that's not the business they wanna run, if you're one of our clients, that's what we coach you, is get really clear on who you wanna serve and filter out everybody else. Because if you take on bad clients, it gets you into the cycle of suck that we teach, which means. you then have bad properties, which leads to having bad tenants, which means then you have bad reviews, and then you attract more bad clients. And then you end up in this weird race to the bottom with everybody else trying to compete on price. And that's the worst place to be competing. And so you can be unique in the marketplace by being the best, being picky about the clients you take on, and your operational costs are going to be a lot lower. So... Derek has much lower operational costs than most property management companies because he doesn't take on the really difficult owners. He makes sure that the owners are willing to put the work in and the money into the properties to make sure they're taken care of well, to make sure tenants are taken care of well. And that makes it a lot easier for them to do their job as a property manager. And so it doesn't matter if he could have like, 200 more doors if you would be making half the margins or even the same margins. I had a client with 600 doors that was on one of these podcast episodes. When he first came to me, he had 600 doors and was making zero dollars. And so if you have bad doors, bad owners, you have to have a lot more staff and then it's really easy to lose all your money and not be very profitable. And we've gotten some of our clients up to 50 % profit margin. Sarah had 60 to 90 % profit margin. in her business. You can only have ridiculously good margin in your business if you're picky about your clients. You have to get rid of bad clients and bad properties. Yeah. Or just say no to them in the first place. Right. Yeah. So if you're wondering, I think this actually worked out way better. I did not plan this, but the, what are we calling it? The growth blueprint. that what we're calling it? We're calling it the PM. growth audit, I believe. No, we're not calling it a audit. Well, I know that. I thought it was a blueprint. Nope, we're not calling it a blueprint. We're calling it the PM growth leak audit. It's not when we're not going to call it an audit. Well, that's what I have programmed all of our tools to talk about it as. Then we get to reprogram that because... Because blueprints are overdone. Nobody wants a blueprint anymore. So people want to pay maybe for an audit. So I don't know. But whatever you want to call it, challenge, audit, blueprint. But it's to help you find the leaks in your business related to growth. All right. So where I was going with that, whatever we decide to call this thing is stay tuned, I guess. OK. TBD. But ⁓ that's going to be something that we end up launching very soon, where you'll work one-on-one with someone from our team and they will take you through. It'll be a three day thing. Dogs trying to jump up on my lap. All right, why not? Come here, Hans. Come here. Come here. Okay. All right. He's all the way up here. All right. Okay. For those of you who are watching the video, this is Hans. Hi, where are you going? This is awkward because I'm sitting on a ball. Whatever we call this, you'll get to work with someone on our team for three days to help you figure out why growth has been stagnant or not moving as fast as you want it to be. Because a lot of people are totally stuck and they're just stalled out and stuck at the same point and they might fluctuate. gain a little, lose a little, gain a little, lose a little. And there's a lot of people that are also, they want more growth and it's just not happening exactly the way that they would like it to happen. They're getting some growth, but they're not getting the amount of growth that they are really hoping for or looking for. And we have identified a few patterns. So we've decided, hey, let's help people figure out why their growth is just... stalled. Maybe the growth stalled. I don't know. We'll call it something. ⁓ stay tuned for that because I think probably by the time this airs that will be live. That will be launched. So if you're wondering why growth might be stalled or stuck in your business and how you can grow more and get more clients and the good clients, not just any clients, but the good clients because that's what's important. then reach out to us because by the time you hear this episode, unless you're watching it live, if you're watching it live, we can't help you quite yet, but stay tuned for like a week. Give us like a week. And if everyone else, when you're watching the replay, when it launches, then if that is you, reach out to our team and we will walk you through it. And you'll walk away with a plan and you'll know exactly what's going wrong and what to do to fix it. Okay. I'm being tongue mauled by this dog. Okay, Huns. All right, you're going down. No, Captain, you can't come up. Okay, fine. Come here. Hi. Where's the other one? the other one. Okay. Okay. He looks so sad to I don't know what else to say about this. All right, so next time we will not bring the dogs in here. This is not effective. Not effective. All right. So but possibly entertaining. So if you liked if you liked seeing the dogs just like comment on this dogs and then see he'll have to do more of it. I don't know. You let me know. You'd be the judge. Yeah. All right. Well with that I think the message today then is you've got to figure out how to be unique in your market because If you're the same as everybody else, they might as well just go with the cheapest company. that is, you know, nobody also, it's important to realize nobody also wakes up in the morning and goes, I want to buy property management today. Property management is the wrong product. And this is one of the things in this challenge audit, whatever we're going to call it thing is that we will help reveal to you, we'll help you expose and we'll help you make sure that you have a really good offer. you have a really good understanding of your target audience because without those things really dialed in from the beginning, you're going to have a less healthy business. And so a lot of people have a blind spot around all of this and they just go out there and try and get clients, try and grow their business. And they wonder why it's so hard, but it's because you're selling the wrong thing and you've started the wrong business. And so, and this stuff is very easy to clean up and we can help you with that. Cool. All right. So. If, my gosh, dogs are just bumping into me. If you have felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com for free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also, you can join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas and to learn about our offer subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe and if you found this a little bit helpful don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review we'd really appreciate it until next time remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone so let's grow together bye everyone I can't this. I don't know. We're stuck on the podcast forever. How about the red end phone call button?

DGS 339: Why the Right Room Changes Everything

Today, Jason and Sarah Hull attended a high-level mastermind in Boise, Idaho, where they were surrounded by top entrepreneurs, learning firsthand how proximity to the right people can completely shift your mindset and business trajectory. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason Hull and Sarah Hull discuss the power of in-person masterminds, why one insight from the right room can change everything, and how stepping out of your environment is essential for real transformation and business growth. You'll Learn [00:01] Introduction and Purpose of the Episode [03:10] Inside the Boise Mastermind Experience [06:00] Why the Right Room Changes Everything [10:20] The Power of In-Person Transformation [20:30] The Problem With Growing Behind a Screen [32:20] Thinking Bigger and Expanding Vision [44:10] Invitation to Join the DoorGrow Mastermind Quotables "You don't need that much, you need one thing from the right person, and that is really enough to pay for the whole year of the program, which is incredible." " "Transformation comes by getting you in person and changing the business owner." "If you don't change your environment, that's the challenge is you if you if you're always in your office, you're always behind a screen, you're always on your phone, whatever, that environment is the environment you're already in, you have to change the environment in order to change the person." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:01) Five, four, three, two, one. All right, we are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. Okay, so in today's episode, we are gonna be chatting about what, Sarah? We just went to... weird place to go, but we voluntarily went to Boise, Idaho. What? Boise is a cool place. Boise is a cool place. It's but chilly temperature wise. Okay. Affirmative. It's better than... I'm not going to start ripping on places. This is not a good precedent to set. All of your places, if you're listening, are awesome, including... I think Boise is super cool. It's a beautiful area. Beautiful area. Okay, Sarah is not a fan of Boise apparently, but I like Boise. So my two favorite places that I was thinking of living were Boise and Austin, and we ended up in Boise. We did not end up in Boise. mean, we ended up in Austin. That's what I meant. We ended up in Austin. All right, can we move forward? so we went to an event in Boise. Russell Brunson. Cool, Russell Brunson's headquarters is in Boise. So we went there and we are part of his inner circle, which is a $50,000 a year mastermind. And we're always trying to learn from the best. think he is probably the most savvy internet marketer on the face of the earth right now, or at least one of the top. And he's quite brilliant. And he's just a really good human and he attracts really, really cool entrepreneur, entrepreneurial people, like the people that he curates. So the people in the mastermind make it way cooler. Like as one of the ladies said when we were there, she's like, I thought Russell's cool, but you're all cooler. yeah. She said, I joined for Russell. I She said, I only joined for Russell, but you know what? You guys are like so awesome. Like you guys make this way better than I even thought. And she said, don't tell Russell I said that. But I'm kind of here for you guys now. Yeah. All right. Cool, so, and we got to hang out and they split us up into rooms and they put kind of a, I don't know, like a leader or a coach over each room. And we had Annie Grace who had been in a previous mastermind with me with Alex Sharpen. And she wrote a really awesome book called This Naked Mind, built this empire helping people get free from the addiction of alcohol and doing something very different than what's typically done that's been very, very effective. And she's been very close to Russell and learned a lot of really cool stuff and she scaled her business very large. And so it was great to have her leading the room. So first we had this badass, Annie Grace leading the room. And then in our room, we also had Myron Golden, which if any of you have ever followed any of his stuff, like this guy helps people, tenets their businesses just by helping them shift their money mindset, help them shift their thing about fees and stuff. He doesn't target property management business owners. We haven't even paid money to Myron yet, but we got to hang out in the room with him and he does some extremely high ticket coaching. And so it was really cool to have him in the room, give feedback. And we also, who else do we have in the room? Dr. Benjamin Hardy. Awesome guy, right? Yeah. So Ben Hardy. So if you ever heard of the book 10 X is easier than two X or who not how, or all these, he's written a lot of books. Science of scaling his latest one really awesome time as a tool He was in the room giving hanging out with us as well. We were hanging out with Richmond din he is and runs an eight figure coaching bit or business to helping people with tiny challenges and like there's just there was so many there's another guy that has a VA company I think he said he told me he's doing 50 million a year. So we were hanging out in the room with cool people and we got to present and share and then we got to get feedback from others, which was really awesome. So it was just really cool. So what do we want to tell them about this? So one of the things that we have known for a really long time is being in rooms like that is just so powerful and it's really it's invaluable. Yeah. Because one little thing that you can take away, just one, you don't need a list, you don't need, you know, notebooks. You don't need all this. Oh, I know what to do and I've got 15 things That I'm gonna do this week and then after that I've got the next 98 on my list like that's probably too much You don't need that much you need one thing from the right person and that is really enough to pay for the whole year of Program which is incredible. Yeah It's connected us with such amazing incredible growth minded very outward focused People who are looking to change the world and have an impact and do amazing things. They're not you know, just in it because They want to be they're not just in it because they go, you know, I guess I can make some money Yeah, like they're they're looking to really have an impact and make it tremendous change in this world and being connected with people like that at events like this is so incredible and every single time that we go to one of these events I never know what we're going to get out of it before we go. I just know that it's going to be amazing. So I don't go into it Looking for a specific thing. I don't go into it thinking okay I need to figure out how to do this or I need this answer or I need to do this thing or talk to this person or get this you know answer to this question or you know this Strategy that I'm looking for I never go into it with anything most of the events that we've gone to We go into it Sometimes not even feeling like we need anything Yeah, lot of times we just go And we go, I don't really think I need anything. think we're pretty solid. Let's just be in the room. And even when you go into it with that mindset, man, you still get stuck. You still, you still, go, man, I didn't even know that I needed that. And I'm so glad that we were there. I'm so glad that we got it. And sometimes it's just being around people who think the same way that you do or think even bigger. than you do because if you think, hey, you know, I've made it, right? Like we all have that moment in life where we go, I'm like, made it, I'm good, I make this much, I can take care of my family, I can, you know, do the things that I want and have the things that I want and, you know, have this lifestyle that maybe is even better than you had ever imagined. And sometimes we go, okay, I've arrived, I'm here, I've made it. And then you get into a room like that and you go, wow, there's so much more. There's so much more that I can do and there's so much more that I can give and there's so much more that I can be. Yes. Amazing. So good. Yeah. So I've been in a lot of different masterminds. and I together have been in several and yeah, being around the right people is what it takes to level up. Your business is the sum of the five entrepreneurs or business owners that you spend the most time with basically. And you need to be in the right room. And so we've decided, know, we recently, one of our mentors, Aaron Stokes, was, he founded ShopFix Academy, he coaches auto repair shops. He was very generous and we worked with him and he taught us a lot of stuff. He recently passed and he crashed his plane, which was really sad. I really had a hard time kind of. coming to grips with that and being in Boise was helpful for that. I got to share with everybody some of the stuff with our group that I had learned from Aaron, which was awesome because Aaron's stuff was really great. I shared about the importance of believing in people and hope and how that actually affects your clients more than your tactics and how I rarely end a coaching call without telling the person, hey, I believe in you, you can do this. And that's from Aaron. And so I shared a little bit of some of the things Aaron taught and it was awesome because it was nice to see the caliber of people that we were in the room with resonate with it and see Myron Golden thanking me for sharing that and other people that, you know, just saying, hey, this is true. This is awesome stuff. We have decided to shift our own mastermind to being more in-person. Why? So. The challenge is most property managers are stuck trying to grow from behind a screen. They're watching webinars, they're sitting on Zoom calls, they're collecting PDFs maybe that they'll never read, and they're wondering why nothing ever changes. Have you ever been there? I've been there. Things didn't really start to happen for me until I started getting in the room. Now, there's a lot of stuff you can learn and things that can happen digitally, but what we found is that when people are in person, something shifts. Transformation is what's needed to grow the business. As Erin would say, if you change the owner of the business, you change the shop. Fix the owner, fix the shop. So if we fix the property management business owner, if we can trans, and that's been our mission statement, our mission statement at DoorGrow is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. But we know that Transformation comes by getting you in person and changing the business owner. We just don't see it happen digitally. just, it doesn't work as well. So we started onboarding all of our clients in person and that's been huge. It's been huge in so many ways, getting deep into their business, identifying a ton of problems that they would hide behind a screen and not share, getting real about them, getting transparent. And so there's just been big shifts with that. Now we're shifting to our activities and our events being in person. And so if you don't change your environment, that's the challenge is you if you if you're always in your office, you're always behind a screen, you're always on your phone, whatever, that environment is the environment you're already in, you have to change the environment in order to change the person. And so the people around you, they aren't moving fast enough, they don't think big enough. And nobody's holding you to the standard that you know you're capable of. And so the door grow mastermind that we've curated and created has amazing people. And so we want these people to be around each other, rubbing shoulders, getting to know each other, creating friendships, finding mentors, finding heroes, people they look up to. I've had people that I looked up to like Aaron and they changed our business. And so this mastermind, it's about getting serious. It's about coming out, spending time here in Austin with us, getting multiple times a year. working on your business. So we just created an announcement for our spring intensive, where we're gonna go deep into our clients' businesses. If you wanna be part of this, if you wanna sample this, you wanna experience some of this, then reach out to us. You're welcome to come hang out with us. We'd love for you to get a taste, but you show up, you get in the room with other owners that are actually doing the work and you leave with a plan, momentum, relationships. that are going to change you. They're going to change how your business goes. And all of the cool stuff we've had, it's all there still. Like the weekly calls on the online community, our new DoorGrow Hub app, which is amazing. All the trainings inside of DoorGrow Academy, that's all there, but that's really exists to keep you executing between your trips to Austin, where we grow and help you figure out how to grow your business. And those things are support system, which is nice, but it's not the main event. And so that's the big shift that we're doing in the mastermind. people walk out of that room different. And people walk out of that room with connections and friendships that will just last. And it's because you're surrounding yourself with your people. When you find your people, there is something that you can just feel it. You can feel the energy in the room. There's something that ignites inside of you. I was sitting in that room, and this is not our first Russell event, but I was sitting in that room and I was going, man, these are my people. This is like, this is where we need to be. Yeah. And talking to Benjamin Hardy and going, yeah, you're right. I have no idea why I'm thinking 10 million. You're right. 10 million is a stupid number. That's, that's like child's play. You're right. I should be going for a hundred million. I have no idea why I wasn't going for a hundred million, but now there's like a clear path and a clear, reason to do it. And I would not have been thinking 100 million is a reasonable number for us if I didn't end up in that room with Benjamin Hardy. Yeah, let's go. Let's do it. Right. OK. I mean, the impact that we get that we can have by doing that will be awesome. And, you know, that was a big block for me. I realize I'm like, I don't care enough about the money. but I care about impact and that gets me excited and money is your ability to create impact. That's how you have reach. So let me know if, listen to this and let us know, are you stuck in this cycle? Are you exhausted, overwhelmed, stuck as the bottleneck in your own business? Do you feel like you can't keep up? You no longer love or even like the business that you built. Maybe you're spending too much time doing admin work, playing catch up while your competitors are signing the clients you should have. Have you promised your family next year will be different? Maybe we'll have that vacation, but nothing changes. Do you start projects with great intentions but struggle to follow through without accountability? Are you tired of trying to figure everything out alone, which as I say is the slowest path to growth? While your competitors seem to have all the support and figure it out, well, you're not alone. That's what most property managers, they're saying things like, I want to grow, but I'm the bottleneck. Everything depends on me. I need to either sell the business or move on or make this sustainable. Finally, I want to add more doors, but I'm overwhelmed. They don't know where to start. If I don't solve this, I'll stay stuck and growth will stall or worse. I'll start losing doors and clients. And maybe you experienced that. So this is stuff that we tackle in our mastermind. So we'll help you get the business going. We'll help you get the business cleaned up. So I want you to step into your future real quick and then we'll wrap up. Just imagine this picture yourself. You're walking into a room in Austin, Texas, full of other property management business owners. These aren't tire kickers or people collecting info. These are operators who got on a plane because they're serious about building something real. These aren't people going to a property management conference just to go to the bar and check out from their life, right? At the hotel. These people got on a plane because they're serious. And you sit down at a table with owners, they manage maybe 50, 200, 500 plus doors, maybe someone a thousand, right? Someone shares how they added 30 doors last month, maybe using our Realtor intro engine, another owner walks you through how they restructured their pricing and add another 25K in their monthly revenue. A third pulls you aside at the evening mixer and says, I was exactly where you were eight months ago. Here's what changed everything for me. You can't. get that on a Zoom call. You can't get that in a Facebook group. You can't get that through a video or training. That kind of moment changes everything. Michael Poon, he had that experience before he added 40 units in July. Last year, Ken Harmon had it when he went from zero to 105 doors in six months by putting in just one or two hours a day. This is what happens when you stop trying to figure everything out alone and you step into a room that makes it harder to play small like Sarah was talking about. So now picture this, you're back at home, three days after our spring intensive, you're executing your 90 day plan with total clarity, your accountability partner texts you, hey, I just hit my goal for the week, how are you doing? You made that friend or that connection, and you realize you're not just building a business, you're building relationships that are gonna last for years, and these have to be built in person. So remember that feeling, because that future starts right now today when you decide. to stop just watching from behind a screen and you come spend time with us and show up in person. All right, so if this is interesting, reach out to us. can check us out at doorgrow.com. Anything else you want to add? All right. It's coming up in May. It's coming up in May. coming up in May. So by the time this episode airs, unless you're watching it live, it... But don't fret, we've got another one coming up in October. So this year we're doing two plus our DoorGor Live. So it'll be May in October plus DoorGor Live in October. Then next year we're gonna start vacating through. And we onboard new clients every month in person. You'll come hang out with us. right, so, all right, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant, you wanna take your business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgor.com for free training on how to get unlimited leads for free. Text the word leads. to 512-648-4608. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, and to learn about our offers and how we can help you, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on wherever you found this. We'd really appreciate it. Until next time, remember, the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

DGS 338: Creative Finance Secrets for Property Managers

Today, Jason sat down with Caleb Christopher to break down how creative finance is actually being used in today's real estate market, especially for property managers looking to grow beyond traditional deals. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull and Caleb Christopher discuss strategies like subject-to deals, the due on sale clause, wraparound mortgages, and other creative transaction structures, along with how property managers can use these tools to acquire more doors, help investors expand their portfolios, and even build their own. You'll Learn [00:09] Introduction to Creative Finance in Real Estate [01:01] Caleb Christopher's Entrepreneurial Journey [04:39] Understanding Subject To Deals [10:10] Opportunities for Property Management Business Owners [11:45] Navigating Legal Counsel in Creative Finance [14:17] Understanding Wraparound Mortgages [19:45] Creative Financing Structures [22:27] The Role of Creative Transaction Consulting [27:06] Building Relationships in Property Management Quotables "If you have a business and you don't know what to do with those opportunities, other people do, and you can get paid a referral fee." "The due on sale clause is always going to be a stone hanging over your head. You can't get rid of it." "Your low-interest mortgage is an asset I'm willing to buy." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:01) Five, four, three, two, one. All right, welcome everybody. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so in today's episode, I'm hanging out here with Caleb Christopher. Welcome, Caleb. And we're gonna be chatting about creative finance and what it really looks like in today's real estate market. And Caleb's gonna share practical insights from his time in the industry, breaking down strategies like Sub 2, Subject 2 Deals. Caleb Christopher (00:46) All right, thank you. Jason Hull (01:01) the due on sale clause, wrap around mortgages and other creative transaction structures to give a helpful real world perspective for anyone looking to get started in creative finance. for property managers, know creative finance is how you help your investors get into more units and they all want to manage more units. So cool. Welcome Caleb. Caleb Christopher (01:24) Thank you. I live creative finance, so ask in any direction. Jason Hull (01:26) So, yeah, it's your thing. Yeah, yeah, you live it. It's your middle name, right? Yeah. So Caleb was showing me he has paint on his arm from right, like, I don't know where he, yeah, he's been doing some stuff. He's like legit into the work. He's got rental properties. So he's down in the, in the paint. So Caleb, give us a little bit of background on yourself. Caleb Christopher (01:32) Yeah. Yeah. I've got rental properties. Jason Hull (01:51) at kind of your, how did you get into doing what you're doing now? What's sort of your entrepreneurial journey for the entrepreneurs listening? Caleb Christopher (01:58) Yeah, so entrepreneurship has gone way back for me. What, I'm 38 now? I'm almost 39. 39 feels a lot closer to 40 than 38, by the way. ⁓ As an entrepreneur, I'm like, wait, that's like one of those. Anyway, so. Jason Hull (02:06) Yeah, yeah. It's a milestone, yeah. I'm a decade older than you. was born in 77. So I'm feeling even older now. Keep going. Caleb Christopher (02:18) Okay. You look fantastic. So entrepreneurship in fifth grade, I found these mechanical pencils that would come apart in the middle and they were different colors. And I bought them in bulk at Costco and resold them to my classmates in whatever color combinations they want. Mates started making money. I was like, this is kind of cool. And I like customizing stuff. So that was cool. And then a bunch of little stuff like that. And it ended up where I ran a paintball field out of my parents' house in the woods. I liked working. like work as my hobby. Jason Hull (02:23) Thank Yeah. Okay. Yes. Caleb Christopher (02:48) but also paintball. I've got a 12 year old, we're building a paintball course in my, at my house now, cause he's just starting to get into it. So, but I did that and I bought rental gear and I funded my paintball journeys by having other people rent from me. And so that was that. And then I got into IT and cybersecurity consulting. So entrepreneurship has been a thing where I'm just always adding value, always had a second job, some, some other gig where I like to help do creative problem solving. Jason Hull (02:48) Yeah, fun. Yeah, good time. Nice. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (03:15) And then I discovered real estate when I couldn't sell my house. The one I'm in right now was right next door to family, which was great, but I couldn't sell the one I was in. And so I had to rent it out and I became an accidental landlord and refinanced the property. And then I read Rich Dad Poor Dad and I was like, thank God I have a rental property. And that was the beginning of the real estate journey. Jason Hull (03:27) Yeah. Right, right. And everybody, you have to read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I think it's a requirement. And then you want to get out of the rat race and yeah, yeah. We would play. Caleb Christopher (03:41) Yeah. Yeah. Start building wealth. Just treat, treat houses like a retirement account. Slow building. Even if you don't do anything else, if you get a few rentals, you're in a pretty good shape. Jason Hull (03:56) Yeah. Have you seen Robert Kiyosaki's game, the board game? Yeah, probably. Maybe it does all the math for you. ⁓ yeah. We did it the hard way and I would just make my wife do the math. I'm like, go ahead, Sarah. You do this. She's like, she likes it. She thinks that part's fun. Yeah. Right. That's why she's the COO and not me. Caleb Christopher (03:59) Yeah. It's easier to play online than it is the board game. It does. Then you don't have all the little cards handing back and forth. So yeah, I highly recommend just running a private game on a computer. Okay, what a blessing. Jason Hull (04:25) All right, so cool. Well, let's get into this. Let's get in this topic. So tell us about the first thing mentioned in the intro was like the subject two deals, like this strategy. Caleb Christopher (04:39) Yes, so sub 2 is when you take a property subject to something else. It could be a federal IRS lien. It could be the person's mortgage. It's always, by the way, everybody does sub 2 deals and they just haven't thought of it this way. When a utility company comes to dig up a chunk of your yard and you can't say something about it, that's because you bought it subject to easements, rights of way, etc. So... Jason Hull (04:52) Okay. Yeah, easements. Caleb Christopher (05:04) There are external things that can act upon you or your property because you bought the property subject to them. What we do in subject to deals is we add the loan to the list of things taken subject to. So if the mortgage company notices that you sold a house to me without paying off the mortgage, right? The deed transfers to me and I'm making your payments now. That's a sub two. ⁓ if they notice and if they care, they can accelerate that loan because of the due on sale clause. So kind of two birds with one stone with this description. It exists in every. Jason Hull (05:24) Yeah. Yeah, doesn't that void most loans or? Caleb Christopher (05:34) loan I've ever seen. Maybe not in a seller finance loan if you explicitly exclude it. It's not required, but a due on sale is a good protection for a lender to have because if you transfer and if they care, they can accelerate. It doesn't require them to. They can. Jason Hull (05:36) Right. but they can and some terms in loans I believe also if you if it switches ownership, they it says it maybe negates the terms of the agreement or. Caleb Christopher (05:59) Nope, it doesn't cancel anything else. it's, and a lot of people are like, is sub two illegal? No, it's not illegal. Here's when it is illegal. If I'm borrowing with the intent to hand it to somebody else, the deed, it was never my intention to occupy the property or to satisfy the requirements. And I'm misrepresenting or providing materially false information. That's fraud and that's illegal. However, Jason Hull (06:04) Thank Okay. Okay. Caleb Christopher (06:24) If I buy the house and I move into it as my primary residence or whatever the occupancy requirements are, and then I decide later on to sell it subject to the mortgage, I can do that. And that's a violation, a civil violation of the mortgage contract, which says if you transfer without paying us off or without our permission, we can accelerate the loan. But it's a defined default and a defined remedy. Jason Hull (06:42) I see. So I had a client and what he was doing is he was helping facilitate deals and his way of kind of getting around stuff was he would set up a trust. He would place the business, the current owner of the property as, you know, as one of the members of that trust. So they still had that person in place. They would just decrease their ownership stake through the trust, right? So. Caleb Christopher (07:07) Still technically a violation of the due on sale clause. Some people think Garn St. Germain Act protects an investor like all trust acquisitions from a due on sale, which is not true. By the way, a little more background. I'm very technical. read laws and rules and court cases. so if anybody's got a, I'm giving you a real technical answer here, not an attorney though. The Garn St. Germain Act protects family transfers, but not an investor purchase, even if you leave the seller as a partial owner. Technically it's still a violation. Jason Hull (07:16) Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Mm-hmm. Got it. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (07:36) but it's less likely they'll notice. Jason Hull (07:38) I see the sub two guys, Pace Morby or whatever his name is. And I just see a lot of people saying, this is illegal or you can't do this. And people come after him all the time. And I don't know. I don't know what. I'm not as technical maybe as you. So I don't know. What's your take on that? Caleb Christopher (07:54) It's absolutely not illegal. It's illegal to misrepresent something at any time, but there's no duty or compunction in the contract for me to notify you as my lender that I've transferred the property. Even if there was, that would just be another violation of the mortgage contract and not something criminal. Jason Hull (08:05) Got it. Got it, okay, right. You're not going to jail over it, but okay. So if you're doing the subject two or if like some of the property management business owners listening are wanting to maybe take over the ownership of some of the rental properties that they're. Caleb Christopher (08:23) Yeah, dude. Can I say that is, think, the number one opportunity for a property management company owner is you can either do acquisitions for yourself by taking over tired landlords' properties. My goodness. Hey, are you tired of this property? I'll take the deed. I'll pay you X cash and I'll just take over the payments. Huge opportunity. Also playing middleman, if you know sub 2 investors. If you've got tired landlords, you have an opportunity. Jason Hull (08:30) Yes. Hmm. Caleb Christopher (08:51) You can be the buyer or you can be the middleman who finds the buyers who are willing to take those over. And if it's older debt with a lower interest rate, I'm telling you, I will pay more for that property than I will for to get a new, the same property with a new loan. Jason Hull (08:56) Right. Yes, yeah. So, I mean, really, the smartest thing a property management business owner can do is build up their own portfolio, right. And rather than just helping everybody else build up theirs. And we've got a client and he I think he has like he has two, three hundred doors in his business. He owns all of them. He basically just uses his property management business as a honeypot. People come to him, say, hey, I need management. And then he he said, well, let's take a look at your property situation. And then he's like, yeah, well, if you sell this, you're going to have all these taxes and all these issues. And man, if only there was a way you could still get paid on this, but avoid that. And then he convinces them to do seller financing without telling him it's seller financing, sort of. Right. And so then he like just takes over the ownership and he keeps paying them to pay them off. And so he's got this really sizable portfolio. And during the, when the Caleb Christopher (09:37) Hmm. Jason Hull (09:56) If the market shifts a certain way, he's taking on millions of dollars in assets pretty easily, you know, having these conversations. And so, yeah, I think there's definitely an opportunity for property management business owners to be paying attention to this. Is there anything else you would want to say about subject two that maybe they should be aware of or? Caleb Christopher (10:10) Yes. I mean, there's plenty of discussions to be had when you get down into the details. Knowing what it is is the first stage. I would just remind back on this last point, if you have a business and you don't know what to do with those opportunities, other people do and you can get paid a referral fee. So don't sit on the fact that you've got tired landlords. Send out a survey and like, if somebody came to you with an offer today, would you sell? Jason Hull (10:17) . Right. Yeah. And the thing is, as a property manager, they have this, they have several advantages, but one, they know the market, they know which properties would cashflow the best, they know what they could rent for. They're connected to real world reality, unlike a lot of real estate agents in the market when it comes to rentals. And they have a large portfolio of owners. So if one owner is like, want to sell, they've got a whole bunch of others. They could say, Hey, do you want this? So they could do that middleman thing that you were talking about. Okay. Love it. think it's, it's just smart. And, it sounds like the biggest challenge would be the, the sound like the, sounds like the most difficult piece of this would be, how do I get really solid legal counsel for making sure that this is done or structured the right way? Or we keep the loan intact. Caleb Christopher (11:06) That's it. We're done with the episode. That's the main point. Excellent. Yeah. So one thing, the due on sale clause is always going to be a stone hanging over your head. You can't get rid of it. And if you can't take that heat, you got to stay out of the kitchen, basically. That said, I have resolved due on sale on consumer loans, not DSCR. I've resolved due on sale with consumer slash investment property loans for the individual buyer borrower. But where was I going with that? Jason Hull (11:30) Yeah. How did you solve this? Is this like a trade secret or can you share with the audience? Caleb Christopher (11:48) Nah, so the broad strokes are pretty obvious. It's the details that kill you. it's basically, if I bought your house subject to, and they accelerate the loan, then I'm going to try to call them and negotiate them away off the cliff, right? Like, hey, I'm making the payments. What's really the problem? Can I assume this? What options do we have? If they're inflexible, the bigger banks, then I'm going to have to go with technical compliance, which is I'm going to deed the property back to you. Jason Hull (11:54) Yeah. Caleb Christopher (12:15) And then we just get into this whole thing like, yeah, but what if I deed it to you and you don't sign the next document back to me to let me continue like a master lease where I keep all the profits or whatever we want to call it. Ideally, we just restructure the transaction with paperwork that's either less visible or completely acceptable to the lender. Jason Hull (12:31) Got it. So this is just a conversation with the lender, basically, hey, this is what's happening. How do we make this work? So everybody's happy. Caleb Christopher (12:37) and the bigger banks will not tell you how to make it work. They'll just require you to show evidence that ID to the property back to you. But that's only one part of the puzzle, because we still need to restructure the transaction internally. Jason Hull (12:44) I see. Okay. Right. So then it's between you and the homeowner. Yeah. Got it. And there's just making a a deal where they're making your there's money being exchanged, even though the legal technical ownership hasn't really shifted. Caleb Christopher (13:04) Right. There's a paperwork dance around any obstacle. Now you asked about legal counsel. Lawyers are good at saying no. I'm not going to discourage. Here's my law degree right here. I don't have one. So yes, I'm never going to discourage somebody from getting an attorney involved. My concern is a lot of times they don't have the direct experience on these types of deals. And when they see risk, they say no. ⁓ Jason Hull (13:10) Right. That's their default. Right. It looks just like mine. Yeah. Yeah. That's the safest thing for them to do. Caleb Christopher (13:30) That's right. And when I go to an attorney, I'm like, I'm not, I'm paying you to tell me how not tell me no. Jason Hull (13:37) Right. The pre-frame with attorneys is everything. I say the similar thing. You don't go to the attorney and say, hey, how can I get out of this horrible contract with this franchise I'm in, for example? It's this is what I want to do. What's the best way to do this? I'm going to do it. Yeah. So you give them the right pre-frame. Caleb Christopher (13:49) Figure out how. Well, you can't because there's this risk. And I'm like, yeah, there is risk. I need to accept a few risks here because let's be outcomes oriented. And if you can coach an attorney to be outcomes oriented before you start spending a bunch of money on them, then great. That said, I've had a hard enough time finding that in every state. that's why entrepreneurial, I started Creative TC, which is transaction consulting, because I've been there and I've done that with dozens of deals per month for the last four years next. Jason Hull (13:59) Yes. Yes. Caleb Christopher (14:17) in a couple of weeks here. we've touched literally thousands of these deals. We've seen them up, down, left, right, sideways and back. Jason Hull (14:18) Got it. Yeah, so the short answer is call Caleb. Yeah, okay, cool. So the next thing is like, we talked about the do on sale clause a bit. I don't know if there's anything else to mention on that. And then we can go into wraparound mortgages. Caleb Christopher (14:27) Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Jason Hull (14:40) I'm not familiar with wraparound mortgages. Caleb Christopher (14:42) Okay, it's like you ever go to Chipotle and they make that big fat burrito? What if they put a second tortilla around it? Jason Hull (14:47) yeah. then it's way less likely to break open. Caleb Christopher (14:53) Very good. Very good. I think there's a lot of good analogies here with wraparound mortgages. So mortgage is a contract that says, by the way, a lot of people get this backwards, a mortgage, you give the bank a mortgage, they gave you a loan. It's not the other way around. So when you give the bank a mortgage, you're saying, hey, in exchange for this $500,000, you can foreclose if I don't pay it. That's the mortgage. It gives them the right to foreclose. We want to do that to be ethical. If I bought your house subject to the existing mortgage, ideally we would do something called a mirror wrap. Now, if you had equity and you wanted to finance me a larger dollar amount than what you owe, can change that. But a mirror wrap says, hey, here's the existing loan. We're putting another one around it. That way you can foreclose on me for non-payment, just like the bank can foreclose on you. So if I don't make your payments, you can still pay your payments so that your loan is in good standing and they can't foreclose on you. But Jason Hull (15:33) Thank Caleb Christopher (15:47) when I'm not making payments, you can foreclose on me. So a mortgage basically just says, you have the right to foreclose on somebody for violating the terms of the mortgage. Jason Hull (15:58) Yeah, okay, clever. Caleb Christopher (15:59) as opposed to a naked sub 2. Like if I just took the deed and said, I'll make your payments. Cool, but yeah, yeah. It's like, but wouldn't you like the ability to foreclose if I don't? That's a wraparound mortgage. Jason Hull (16:04) Yeah, cool. If I really trust you, but trust the verify, right? So. Right, yeah, like worst case scenario, it's like, you know, just like getting into a relationship pre-nup, post-nup, like making sure there's, like if things go bad, which nobody plans on, it's not gonna be as bad. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (16:25) Right. It's a stop loss, right? It will cost you money to foreclose on me, but your credit's on the line, so you can still protect it to some degree. Jason Hull (16:34) Okay, yeah, cool. I like it. And I would imagine the owners like this too. Everybody likes this. This makes everybody feel safer. Caleb Christopher (16:42) Yes, so that's one aspect is it's the safe legal ethical way to do it. The other piece is that you can use if I've got a 4 % interest mortgage. Actually, I've got one that's a 3.625 a sub 2 in Colorado. If I sold this to a new buyer right now on seller finance, I would give them a wraparound mortgage. But what would I be doing? Would I pass that 3.625 to them? Jason Hull (16:46) huh. Mm-hmm. Well, no, you get a cut, right? Yeah. Caleb Christopher (17:07) I would rather mark it up to 8 % or seven or so, whatever's practical today. So I can keep the difference. can arbitrage the interest rate. So wraparound mortgages work not only for the ability to foreclose on a non-payer, but you can also increase either the total amount financed or the rate or both. And so wraparound mortgages can be used to transfer as a profit mechanism as well. And when you own the house that I sold you, I don't have to fix your toilet. You just have to pay me every month. Jason Hull (17:36) Right, so in the case of the audience here, like property management business owner, they don't want to, like they could take over the property themselves, but they could also facilitate the deal and for the new owner, it's a higher percentage and they're just keeping the difference. Caleb Christopher (17:41) Mm-hmm. Sometimes you've got a tenant who has lived in a property for five years and they're a great tenant. You like, you want to help them out, but they can't seem to get a loan. It's like, all right, well, I'll let you make payments on this one. I don't like rent to own. Not the same because that's up your, you're conveying interest to them monthly. It's a convoluted mess. I would rather do a straight seller finance like this, where we do a wraparound mortgage and I'll bump the rate and you're going to pay me a premium, but you're going to get ownership. Jason Hull (18:04) Yes. Yeah, got it. Okay. Yeah, that's a healthier, safer way. Caleb Christopher (18:20) And now I don't have to replace light bulbs or fix toilets or repair the roof or whatever else goes on the plate. Jason Hull (18:27) Unless you're the manager and you get paid to do that. Caleb Christopher (18:30) What? It moves out of property management at that point if it becomes a seller finance. Yeah, they're the owner now. Jason Hull (18:33) because somebody's buying it. They're not renting. Got it. Yeah. OK, cool. Yeah, I like this idea, the wraparound mortgage. OK. Are there other types of wraparound mortgages? Is that the main thing? Caleb Christopher (18:45) Now they're specific to your situation like what's best for you and what state you're in etc. I just had a conversation with somebody who used up all their available cash to get rent properties. Right, so they got three or four rentals, but they've got no cash left and they've got good interest rates and I said you could sell those on wraps and increase your cash flow every month and get a down payment from somebody and she was like what? Jason Hull (18:48) Yeah. ⁓ Caleb Christopher (19:12) I said, you want capital to do the next deal, right? Yeah. Okay. Jason Hull (19:12) yeah. Right, so yeah, because that low interest rate is an advantage. So it's kind of sellable. Caleb Christopher (19:20) It is and you can make a monthly bump. Yes, it is your low interest loan. By the way, I just say this to people. Your low interest mortgage is an asset I'm willing to buy. The same house is worth more money to me with a low interest rate than I'll buy sub two. Then it is just on the market on average. Jason Hull (19:29) No. Okay. Yeah, that's clever. Yeah, okay. Got it. Very cool. All right, so other creative structures. any others. Caleb Christopher (19:46) Yeah, so contract for deed or land contract, it's a seller, it's a type of seller finance. If I'm the seller, I like it because I hold legal title. And if I hold legal title, you can't place additional liens. Yeah, so I don't want you placing solar liens without my permission or water softener liens or a HELOC on top of whatever current balance is. So if I, if I sell to you on a wraparound mortgage, you have the full deed, legal title and everything. Jason Hull (19:53) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (20:15) and you can place additional liens. You can use this property as security for other loans. I really don't want that complication in case I do have to foreclose and maybe take the property back if I bid what's owed. I don't want it coming back to me with an extra three liens or $40,000 worth of debt. So contract for deed is pretty ideal because I hold legal title, you get equitable title. And it's same seller finance term, same wraparound concept like markup interest rate and monthly payments and stuff. Jason Hull (20:41) Got it, okay, very cool. These are fun little vehicles. There's like these magic little tool sets that you've got in your toolbox. Any others? Caleb Christopher (20:48) I I like the master lease concept where it's like a sub 2, right? I'll make sure all your bills get paid, but I keep everything that comes back on top. I take it off your plate. I agree formally to cover any expenses related to the property, et cetera, but we're going to do it like a master lease with an option to purchase. Jason Hull (20:59) Okay. Thank Caleb Christopher (21:10) If you're scared of due on sale, or if you've got a DSCR loan that will not tolerate a contract for deed or a trust acquisition or a full on sub two, we can do this custom master lease, which replicates all the parts and pieces effectively without violating that due on sale clause. Jason Hull (21:28) Okay. And I know property managers sometimes are talking about things like, know, they want to get their investors into more property, right? So they're talking about things like maybe doing a 1031 exchange to get into a bigger property maybe, or doing cash out refinance to pull equity out to get into a next unit or next property. You know, these type of vehicles. But these additional tools you... Caleb Christopher (21:35) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jason Hull (21:54) chat about today I think are very fascinating. I don't think a lot of them I haven't heard them talk about. Caleb Christopher (21:58) Yeah, mean, awareness is the big thing, right? You need to be aware that you can do some of these things, and then you find the person who can help structure it specifically for your scenario. But I see a lot of people who are like, I'm going to do a creative deal. And it's like, on what, though? Jason Hull (22:12) Yeah. Got it. Okay. So, I don't know if there's anything else we're missing or that you wanted to cover, but I think then the next question would be how, where do you fit into this? Cause you have a business that facilitates this or helps with this. Caleb Christopher (22:27) Yeah. So I started Creative TC four years ago and this creative transaction consulting so that we could help make these deals safe, legal and ethical. You can imagine that it's pretty easy to do somebody dirty, whether you mean to or not, with these arrangements when somebody's credits on the line, they're convoluted. And so you need a guiding light. You need somebody to hold your hand, maybe be a lighthouse so you don't crash on the rocks. That's what Creative TC is. And so we consult on these deals nationwide to help people do them safely. Jason Hull (22:35) Okay. yeah. Okay. Caleb Christopher (22:56) And then I started Creative Title this last year to fill a void in the state of Colorado where a bunch of companies were pulling out of creative deals. Jason Hull (23:04) Yeah, got it. So yeah, I get it. Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of times it's not even the, it's, everybody has good intentions, maybe from the very beginning. But when, as soon as something gets weird or sticky or confusing or challenging, then somebody's like, feels like somebody else is being unethical or do them dirty or whatever, or we don't have a, we don't have an exit path or we don't have a clear delineation of, you know, that makes everybody feel comfortable where we can split ways or part ways. so. Caleb Christopher (23:12) Yeah. Money's on the line. Jason Hull (23:32) Yeah, having something structured right from the beginning, they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of care, right? And a lot of times I, when talking with my clients, because, know, in property management, have lease contracts, lease agreements, have the agreements or contracts they have with the owners for taking over the management of the property. And I, what I usually say to them is those are nice, but those usually only matter if you use them incorrectly. They only matter when you're at war. Caleb Christopher (23:35) yeah. Yep. 100%. Yes. ⁓ Jason Hull (24:03) It only matter when you're there. So, but if you proactively review the agreements with them and go through it with them and help them understand it, it's then an onboarding tool and it helps set the frame of the relationship and it helps everybody understand. And because it doesn't matter what's written in agreement until you're at war. But before then, what matters is what they think is written in that agreement. And so making sure that you go over things with them to make sure they understand this is paramount. And that like makes like, Caleb Christopher (24:13) Yes. I need, I need this as a sound clip for my team because this is how I train my team as well. I just need it from somebody else because it sounds better coming from not me. ⁓ it's expectations management is absolutely essential, especially in creative finance deals where I'm making your payments, your credits on the line. If I don't make your payments, it hurts your credit score and can cause a foreclosure. The buyer and seller need to have that conversation. And sometimes it requires a third party to help facilitate. Hey, here's what happens. Jason Hull (24:32) in a relationship. Right, so you can use that. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (24:59) Here's how to manage those expectations. Let's look at this. We're not just signing disclosures just because they're legally required or suggested, but we want to have a meaningful conversation and talk through the stuff so that everybody's on the same page because if the due on sale clause comes knocking, we need to be on the same team. Jason Hull (25:14) Yeah, yeah. So my wife and I got married in Mexico because that's we wanted to get married there. And usually what people will do is they'll just do it legally in the US, but they'll do it symbolically in Mexico. And Sarah's like, no, let's let's do both there. Let's do it. And they make you list out your assets. It's almost like they're like proactively making everyone have a prenup, right? Now we already had a prenup. And then our lawyer was like, you also need to have a postnup. So we did that. And it's just like we know, like if Caleb Christopher (25:34) Okay. Jason Hull (25:42) for some reason there was a problem, like things went south, then it's not gonna be all out war, right? It's clear, you own this, I own this, this is how it works, this is how we part ways, here's how we split the business. And so everything, and this is what smart business owners do with their business when they get into business partnerships. And so without that, And I think with your team, for example, the analogy that everybody understands is divorce, because 50 % of relationships in the US probably end that way. Everybody's been like maybe their parents or they've seen a family member or they've seen somebody go through this. And that's the epitome of not having a really solid planned out strategy from the beginning, because nobody was planning on this happening. But, know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure if you have that dialed in, they're not spending. Caleb Christopher (26:10) Hmm. Jason Hull (26:26) $20,000 in legal fees where only the attorneys are winning and you know, and then you're losing a bunch of stuff and this was yours and they didn't contribute to this, but now you have to give them half and all this kind of stuff. so, yeah, and so you help them kind of make both parties and everybody involved feel comfortable and then you get paid a consulting fee for doing handling this. Cool, very cool. Cool, so I would imagine there might be some property managers listening to this. Any final words you'd like to say to them and how can they get in touch with you if they would like to help you facilitate some of stuff they're working on? Caleb Christopher (27:06) I think the value of a property manager or a realtor is very much in who they know that's vetted. Okay. A realtor, it's like, I know a foundation guy. I know a roof guy. I know a flooring guy, right? That's what I'm paying you for. Not just your commission to take photos and have some conversations. I want to know who knows who you know, you can validate. The same thing is true for property managers. I got a repair guy, very consistent. I've got three different plumbers. If it's this type, I know this guy's got the best rates. That's what I want you to know. when you're my property manager, that's what I'm paying you for. The same thing is true now with Creative Finance. It's like, hey, I know a guy that's an expert that has 255 star reviews at what they do. They only do this thing and they do it really well. So if you want to buy or sell Creative Finance, let me call Caleb. I'm that guy. Jason Hull (27:53) Yeah, mean, a lot of the best property management business owners are viewed by their clients as an investment expert or advisor. And the best investment people or advisors have a whole toolset of people in their back pocket, whether it's trust attorneys or somebody like Caleb, right? They have all these different resources, maybe lenders, you know. They have all these different resources available to facilitate deals. And that's how some property managers are able to help their clients get into more property and have more deals to manage. Or like we talked about at the outset, even better, how to get more ownership stake over all the properties that you're managing and build up your own portfolio and your own wealth. Caleb Christopher (28:37) Yeah, because I should be able to call my property manager and say, who's good at DSCRE finances in your area? Who do you like? I don't know. Okay. Maybe be a little more helpful. Jason Hull (28:44) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, got it. All right. Awesome. Well, Caleb, I appreciate you coming here on the door grow show. How can people get in touch with you? Caleb Christopher (28:57) right. The easiest way, because I own multiple companies, calebchristopher.io. That's got links to Creative TC for the consulting, Dosgard to fix due on sale, and Creative Title Company in Colorado and Tennessee. Jason Hull (29:09) Perfect, awesome. Hey, thanks for being on the DoorGrow show. All right, for those watching this, if you're listening, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant and you wanna take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com for free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners by going to doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, Caleb Christopher (29:12) It's been a pleasure. Jason Hull (29:37) to learn about our offers at DoorGrow. Subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on whatever channel you found this on. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

DGS 337: Property Management: A Teen Entrepreneur Head Start

Jason sat down with young entrepreneur Malcolm Keith to explore how teens can develop leadership, confidence, and entrepreneurial thinking much earlier in life, long before most people ever consider that path. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull and teen entrepreneur Malcolm Keith discuss how environment shapes mindset, why exposure matters more than pressure, and how parents can give their teenagers a powerful head start by surrounding them with the right opportunities and conversations. You'll Learn (00:00) Why Every Entrepreneur Wishes They Could Start Earlier (00:45) Malcolm Keith's Early Exposure to Entrepreneurship (02:00) How Environment Shapes an Entrepreneurial Mindset (03:50) Discovering the Power of Being in the Right Rooms (05:00) The Isolation of Young Entrepreneurs (and How He Solved It) (06:10) Building Teen Mastermind: From Idea to Community (07:30) Taking a Shot: Trying to Get on Funnel Hacking Live Stage (09:00) Turning Community Into Real-World Experiences (Live Events) (12:30) Designing Events for Growth: Community, Action, and Fun (18:30) Advice for Parents: How to Raise Entrepreneurial Thinkers Quotables "It wasn't my parents who were directly telling me like, you need to be a business owner. This is how being an entrepreneur works. It was the people on stage that were selling me on the idea of entrepreneurship." "If you don't ask, the answer is always no." "I never knew it become this big and we'd be doing live events. I just created it because I wanted a friend group." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:01) All right, five, four, three, two, one. Welcome everybody. I'm Jason Hull, the owner and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we've brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right. So today this show is going to be all about giving your teenager the headstart that you wish you had as an entrepreneur. Don't you wish you could just go back and like help yourself out. So I'm hanging out here today with Malcolm. Malcolm, welcome. Welcome, Keith. Malcolm Keith (00:56) Hey, thank you. Jason Hull (00:59) welcome to the show. So I'll give you a little bit of background on Malcolm. At just 17, Malcolm launched Teen Mastermind, a growing community of more than 60 teens dedicated to leadership, entrepreneurship, and building a meaningful legacy. Now 19, Malcolm has taken that vision even further by bringing the movement into the real world with Teen Mastermind Live, a three-day immersive leadership experience designed for both teens and their parents. In a time when most conversations about young people revolve around screen addiction and disconnection and lack of direction, Malcolm represents a powerful counter narrative. As a young leader himself, he's helping teens step into confidence, develop entrepreneurial thinking and strengthen family relationships around shared purpose and growth. So Malcolm, welcome to the DoorGrow show. Malcolm Keith (01:53) Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. Jason Hull (01:56) Cool, cool. So now tell people a little bit, how did you get started doing this and how did you kind of start your little entrepreneurial journey yourself? Malcolm Keith (02:09) Yeah, so my parents got married and opened their dojo the same year. And so I've been in the entrepreneurial world my entire life, about as long as I've been on the mats doing jujitsu. And so those two go very hand in hand in my journey. ⁓ And so I think when I was when I was nine years old is when my parents, they've been going to a mastermind for ⁓ martial arts school owners. And so they've been like, you Jason Hull (02:17) Thank Malcolm Keith (02:38) One parent would go while the other parent would stay home and take care of me and my little sister. But one day they were like, why are we continuing to do this? We, we homeschool and we have the ability to just take the whole family together and it kind of sucks when the family is split apart. So why don't we just, so they made a commitment to always take the whole family on every trip, on every business trip. And so we got to sit in the meeting rooms. and learn from these entrepreneurs. At first we were like little kids just playing with our toys quietly in the corner, reading a book quietly. But ⁓ as a little kid, you're a little information sponge. And so eventually we actually started listening and taking notes. And then I think it was probably when we went to some of Russell's events, like Funnel Hacking Live and Unlock the Secrets was when I was like, this entrepreneur stuff is super cool. And it wasn't my parents who were directly telling me like, you need to be a business owner. This is how being an entrepreneur works. It was the people on stage that, so my parents put me in these rooms where there were people on stage and they were the ones that were selling me on the idea of entrepreneurship. And so that's how, that's kind of how I got into this whole world. Jason Hull (03:56) You had entrepreneurial parents and they put you in some amazing opportunities and rooms to be exposed to think differently. And man, that's like the best homeschool education ever, right? It's a real education that actually leads you making money instead of just being a really good employee somewhere maybe. cool. And your parents are doing, have the martial arts school and doing the martial arts thing. And do you do martial arts? ⁓ Malcolm Keith (04:08) yeah. Yeah, I've been doing it since I I learned how to walk and talk on the mats. So I've been, yeah, whole life. Jason Hull (04:26) Yeah, okay. So right. I mean, don't let the glasses fool you. This guy could probably kick your butt. So, all right. So very cool. So Malcolm, and you've been doing this mastermind, you've got this event coming up. So tell people about like, why did you decide to start this and get this thing going? Malcolm Keith (04:47) Yeah, so I've been going to these, like, there's been, we've been going to Russell's events for a while and I would sometimes meet a couple of the teens there. ⁓ There'd be occasionally a few teens, but we would never stay connected. And ⁓ as I was homeschooled, we were part of kind of a co-op. And so I still had like classmates that I would meet with every week and it was great. But every time I'd come back home from these events, I'd come back to class and talk with my classmates there. And they just didn't understand it, this whole world of entrepreneurship and being a business owner and having a big vision and actually knowing that you can achieve it. so they didn't get exposed to that world ⁓ the same way that I did. And so ⁓ that felt a bit isolating. ⁓ Jason Hull (05:32) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Malcolm Keith (05:44) It was at like, I think it was Unlock the Secrets that I saw that, there are actually other teens that ⁓ are not only interested, but doing business already. But then I kept going to those events and we would never stay connected. ⁓ And so eventually it was ⁓ Unlock the Secrets in Paradise in 2024. And I realized, and I made the decision like, okay, this time is going to be different. Jason Hull (06:01) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (06:13) I'm going to make a Discord server and invite all the teams that I meet there. And we're just going to make a commitment to stay connected. Then we had, so I invited everybody there that I had met. We did our own little like in-person mastermind ⁓ during like one of the off sessions during the event, which is super fun. And then ⁓ one of us had the idea to start doing a call every week. So that's how that started happening. We could stay connected, keep each other updated on. what we're all doing with our businesses. And that's how that started. Eventually the idea came along to, ⁓ we had this idea to try to get on the FHL 10 stage. And it's crazy idea, like, cause only the best of the best get on that stage. But. Jason Hull (06:44) Yeah. So let's pause for a second. So I wanna explain to people listening. So he's mentioning Russell. We're talking about Russell Brunson. He's like the sort of the founder of ClickFunnels and brilliant entrepreneur, probably one of the greatest marketing minds ⁓ period of this generation. And ⁓ that's how we met you and your parents is we're in Russell Brunson's inner circle. ⁓ which is not an inexpensive thing to be part of. So getting access to that as a teenager is pretty amazing. So really awesome. And you were wanting to get on stage at Funnel Hacking Live, which was like this massive event. I think they have like sometimes 5,000, 6,000 people at these conferences, these events. And you're like, how can we maybe get on stage at this event as teenagers? So I love it. All right, so continue. Malcolm Keith (07:53) Yeah, biggest marketing business event like ever. So rock concert for entrepreneurs. ⁓ So we had this idea, what if we try to get on stage? It's probably not going to happen, but you might as well try. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. So, yeah, we put together a video made sure to include as many little like nods to all the stuff that Russell says to show that you actually listen to him. ⁓ And he really appreciated it. He said that Jason Hull (07:59) Yeah. Right, yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (08:24) The lineup for the main stage was already chosen like a while before we had sent the video. But they were doing this new thing called round tables while actually bringing it back to this last event. So it was like 60 round tables each hosted by a high level entrepreneur. And they're like, maybe we can try to give you one of these round tables, which ended up being way better because we can actually talk directly to the other teens who came to that event, which there are a ton, which is Jason Hull (08:30) I'm sure. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (08:53) So cool to see. So we did that. And the team mastermind grew a lot after that event. was, I think, we were able to get our own separate room during that event. They were able to give one to us. And we had just our own in-person mastermind during FHL with 20 or more teens all in the room talking about our goals for the next 10 years. Jason Hull (09:11) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (09:23) and figuring out like what are the things that we're going to do today and this next week after we come back home that's actually going to bring us closer to those goals. So that was that was super fun. Jason Hull (09:24) That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. So ⁓ you're 19th over, right? What happens to this teen mastermind when you're not a teenager? Like that's within the next year. Malcolm Keith (09:40) I am, yes. Yeah, that's been something that I've been thinking about almost since the inception of it. Although at the beginning of it, I never knew it become this big and we'd be doing live events. Like I just created it because I wanted a friend group. ⁓ But they're like, this is super valuable. You got to monetize it. And so that took me a while to do that, ⁓ to kind of get over that block of like, I don't want to charge people who are my friends for something that I created. Jason Hull (09:54) Sure, yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (10:17) as a community, ⁓ but they were telling me like, it is super valuable and people value it more if you actually do charge money for it. Attention, yep, exactly. So I finally did that and that immediately started to grow the team mastermind. And then they were asking for live events. And so we're like, okay, yeah, we should do a live event just for our group. ⁓ Jason Hull (10:25) Yeah, like Russell says, when people pay, they pay attention. Malcolm Keith (10:44) because there's Jason Hull (10:44) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (10:45) people, not just, a lot of them at the start were from Russell's Circles, going to Funnel Hacking Live together, but then there were teens from other places as well. And so we needed one kind of ⁓ our own place to all get together. So that's how the live event came about. ⁓ And I started with something else. I totally forgot. went off. Jason Hull (11:05) Well, yeah, it's ideas like what comes next? are you going to keep doing this? I mean, I imagine you could keep doing it, but you you're about to turn 20, so you're not a teen. But that's the main thing, can't run the team mastermind, but at some point you might be like, my friend group's getting a little young here, so. Malcolm Keith (11:08) Yeah. Yeah, so I got another year left. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, the friends that are in there right now, ⁓ they're all growing up to. And so I think once all of those people quote unquote age out as well, I'll always have like my own inner circle of people that are similar to my age. We won't always all be teens, but we'll all be around the same distance apart. And so I think there'll be a mastermind afterwards, but Jason Hull (11:39) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (11:53) I'll always be part of the Teen Mastermind in some way, maybe not in the same role that I am right now. ⁓ I'm the person that's just a couple of steps ahead. ⁓ Jason Hull (12:06) Yeah. Well, maybe you pick a teenager to kind of head it up or maybe they vote or something, but then you've got, you, give them the IP, you set up the frameworks, you help them know this, how to run the events. can ask you for guidance and you're always going to be a step ahead. know, so. Malcolm Keith (12:23) Yeah, so that's, that was a really cool part of the mastermind was that it was created by a team and led by a team for teens. And so I always wanted to keep it that way. ⁓ and a couple of the teens in the group have kind of stepped up and become their own leaders in the group. and so I've been, ⁓ recruiting them a little bit here and there, and it's been really awesome so far. And so that's, ⁓ Jason Hull (12:34) Yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (12:52) That's working out a lot. Jason Hull (12:54) Right. Yeah. Now you're like Willy Wonka and you're just trying to find Charlie at the, who do I give the golden ticket to and teach them the ways and let them run this place. All right. So really cool. So what are some of the things that happen at the, at the event that you're gearing up? Malcolm Keith (13:01) Yep. Yeah, so the idea first came, let's see, that's actually, okay, I'll save that. There's the grand finale part, which is my favorite and kind of the first idea that came about. ⁓ But so at the event, ⁓ I'm going to take pieces of previous events that I had been to the things that I really liked and implement them, but also look at the things that I, you know, didn't like as much or things that I think could be improved and kind of take that into it. And so the whole event is built around community implementation and fun. At a lot of events, you know, if it's the event of like thousands of people, you can't really do this. But if it's an event of maybe a hundred or less, then you could very easily as the host, make sure that everybody knows each other. And so we start the event with Jason Hull (13:52) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (14:10) having all the families introduce each other or introduce themselves so that everyone kind of knows like who it is that they're actually sitting next to because it's like to be at an event and have no clue who the person who the how cool the person in the chair to the right of you is. So that's how we start it. And then we love the walk and talks. Russell does that with Inner Circle. ⁓ Walk and talks are amazing. So we do that between every speaker and then. ⁓ Jason Hull (14:26) Right, yeah. Okay. Malcolm Keith (14:39) All of the, everybody sat at a round table and that's very specific because, ⁓ means that everybody is kind of grouped together and they get to talk, you know, across from each other instead of like talking all the way over to the table there, they're ⁓ sitting around and that automatically like subconsciously creates that sense of community. ⁓ so everything is built around that creating opportunities. for people to have conversations. And then implementation, we want to make sure that the teens aren't just sitting there in a room having speakers just talk at them for hours. ⁓ We make sure that all those speakers have something like some kind of workshop and the teens are doing something active. And you learn more that way and you actually get stuff done during the event. And you can take that momentum with you back home. Jason Hull (15:32) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (15:36) and continue on from there. So many events give you a ton of ideas, but you're like, have no clue what to do when you get back home. Jason Hull (15:45) Yeah, I got it. Some people call that experiential learning instead of just, you know, sitting there and listening the whole time and then eventually zoning out, making sure that I like the walk and talks. I like that there's this experiential learning where you're taking action, each of the speakers, it sounds like a challenge to do like get people to do something or implement something. So. Malcolm Keith (16:07) Yeah, so we're super intentional about that. And then fun, of course. I think that's the most important because if I really do any of this, if it isn't fun along the way, entrepreneurship should be fun. Jason Hull (16:21) Yeah, business owners, don't think of that a lot. Entrepreneurs are like, wait, like, let's make money. But yeah, but fun is nice, right? So how do you make it fun? Maybe you can teach the grownup here how to how to be more fun. So. Malcolm Keith (16:31) So again, all the speakers are. Yeah, the, mean, every speaker and all the workshops are meant to be fun. ⁓ and then we also have, excursion, like a special trip that we do for each day. So the first one is usually something kind of unique to the area for the one we did here in Oregon. ⁓ we went to wildlife safari, which I sometimes call it a zoo, but it's way more than that. It's, it is like an actual safari. we did like a bus tour and got to see a bunch of, ⁓ cool animals. Jason Hull (17:01) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (17:05) ⁓ in Arizona, we went to, ⁓ a like super car show, which is super fun. And then for this next event in Illinois, we'll be going like a ⁓ hiking trip and seeing some of the cool scenery there. So that's what we do for the first day, something kind of unique to the area that we go to. ⁓ on day two, we do jujitsu and so bringing my family's business routes there. ⁓ and there's. Jason Hull (17:13) Nice. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (17:35) As my dad always says, jujitsu is a metaphor for pretty much everything. ⁓ It's constantly in the cars, what we talk about is how does jujitsu relate. Jason Hull (17:40) Right. Is this Brazilian jujitsu or jujitsu or are you like throwing people like what are doing during the Malcolm Keith (17:52) No, we usually teach like some basic self-defense stuff. So, wrist grab escapes, and then we do kind of more of what you would see if you actually watched a Jujutsu match, which is kind of like the grappling on the ground, ⁓ like a trap and roll. If someone's sitting on top of you, how to like get them over and escape. ⁓ So, some of the basic stuff like that. Jason Hull (18:08) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (18:19) No throws and stuff. You need to learn how to fall first before you can throw. so yeah. Yeah. Jason Hull (18:23) Sure, yeah, Breakfall, yeah, got it. So like mount, guard. Okay, got it, okay. And these are with parents and kids? Malcolm Keith (18:30) Mm-hmm. Yeah, that all that kind of stuff Yes, so the whole event is supposed to be not just for teens, but for the whole family, because that's how our family does it. We always go together and we want to continue to be that example and start to like influence that mindset in other families to be a family together. so ⁓ and the jujitsu really helps with that. A lot of the like most successful students in ⁓ our dojo are families that all do it together. ⁓ Jason Hull (19:07) I see. Okay, got it. So when you're doing the second day, and is it just two days? Malcolm Keith (19:14) And then we have a final third day and we end the event with the Teenpreneur Ball. And that's an opportunity for all the teens, the whole family to ⁓ dress nice, dress fancy, which is very rare nowadays, especially for kids and teens. ⁓ And so I wanted to provide that opportunity to dress nice and fancy. We have a dinner and so that gives us an opportunity to learn about. Jason Hull (19:16) Third day. Malcolm Keith (19:43) like table etiquette, and then we do English dancing. So have you ever seen like pride and prejudice that movie? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So big. Yeah. Big rows of, ⁓ of dance of, yeah, dancing. They all dance together. Jason Hull (19:51) I think I know what you're talking about, where they're like all kind of doing their thing in circle and like turning. like ancient English line dancing or something. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. Cool. So a little teenpreneur ball. Malcolm Keith (20:06) Yeah, I think it's called English country dancing, but yeah, I just call it English dancing. yeah. So and that's yeah, so and that's our grand finale and the teens and the parents especially actually really love it. Jason Hull (20:21) Yeah, okay. Yeah, you have an excuse to dress nice and dance with each other. all right. Yeah, I love it. That sounds, it sounds like fun. So, sounds really cool. So when is your, when's your next one? Malcolm Keith (20:28) Yeah. Our next one is April 30th to May 2nd in Marion, Illinois. Jason Hull (20:39) April 30th to May 2nd. Sorry, what were you saying? Malcolm Keith (20:45) It'll be in Marion, Illinois. Jason Hull (20:50) Cool. How do you pick the locations? Malcolm Keith (20:53) well, the first location that's where we live, we had a couple of members in Arizona and they were like really adamant about like, Scottsdale is amazing. So we went there and then a couple of our founding members who've been just so supportive since the beginning are in Illinois. So they're, they've been a huge help. Jason Hull (20:56) Yep. ⁓ got it. So you've got some boots on the ground in each area assisting you. Malcolm Keith (21:16) yeah, yeah, it's, I'm so grateful for, yeah, the patents. They are awesome. Jason Hull (21:21) Yeah, very cool. Well, hey, Malcolm, really awesome. As adults, we love seeing this, ⁓ seeing the youth doing cool stuff like this. It's inspiring. And there's probably a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this. They're man, I wish my kid would just stop playing video games and be more like me and be more entrepreneurial. But sometimes kids are not entrepreneurial like their parents are. So. they might feel like forcing them into this. So what would you say to some of those parents that might be trying to push their kid into being an entrepreneur and maybe the kids like, this isn't my thing. Malcolm Keith (21:58) Yeah, I'd say my parents didn't necessarily push me. They just put me in the rooms where I learned that that was a path that was available to me. And I think that's the most important because the school system, I mean, it's a fact at this point. It is designed for the employee path. That's just a straight fact. Yeah, but and so there was no yeah, there's no teaching of the entrepreneurial way. Jason Hull (22:09) Yeah. Right. It makes good employees. Good factory worker. Malcolm Keith (22:27) And so, and I totally agree that not everybody is built to be an entrepreneur, not everybody's built to be an employee either. And so having that option ⁓ just allows for your team to make a choice and to make an educated choice. And that's what, that's kind of what it's all about is giving them that opportunity and it's up to them whether or not they take it. ⁓ But there are so many lessons from entrepreneurship anyway that can apply to the ⁓ Jason Hull (22:31) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (22:57) employee path anyway. Jason Hull (22:59) Yeah, cool. Well, Malcolm, I really appreciate you being here on the DoorGrowth show. How can people find out about the Teen Mastermind, this event, and connect with you? Malcolm Keith (23:11) Yeah, the best place ⁓ probably for the event would be teammastermylive.com. Jason Hull (23:17) teenmastermindlive.com. Cool. So if you're a parent listening to this and you're like, man, I got a teenager and they might be interested in this and this sounds cool. Maybe this would be exciting for them. Then go check out teenmastermind. That's what it is, teenmastermind.com. Live. Okay, teenmastermindlive.com. Cool. Malcolm, thanks for coming here on the DoorGro show and hanging out with me for a bit. Keep going. Excited to see what you do next as you move into. Malcolm Keith (23:33) Yeah. Jason Hull (23:46) adulthood outside of being just a teenager, right? So very cool. All right. I've got a whining dog here in my office, so it might be time to go. for those, if you're a property management business owner and you enjoyed this episode, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at door, go.com for free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to five one two six four eight four six zero eight. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgro club.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgro.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it until next time. Remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.