Elevating the CMO Role: Becoming a Chief Market Orchestrator with Matt Heinz

Work Is Not Finite: Staying Irreplaceable as AI Raises the Bar with Heidi Darling

#50 - AI promised marketing leaders more time. So why do so many of us feel busier — and more stretched — than ever? That’s the honest question at the center of this conversation. Two experienced CMOs sit down, peer to peer, to make sense of what marketing leadership really looks like in the AI era — past the hype, the hot takes, and the tidy frameworks. It’s less playbook, more candid conversation about staying irreplaceable, leading teams, and protecting your edge when the ground keeps shifting underneath you. Heidi Darling has spent her career in marketing — from luxury hospitality, to founding and funding her own startup, to scaling B2B and consumer tech companies, including one that went public on the Nasdaq. A genuinely AI-forward operator, she recently moved from fractional CMO work to go all-in at Savo, a platform built on the belief that human intelligence should sit above AI, not beneath it. In this conversation, Heidi and Mandy get into: * Why “work is not finite” — and how AI raises the bar instead of handing you time back * The “sameness problem”: why feeding identical inputs to the same models flattens B2B strategy, and why human intelligence is the real moat * What to expect from your team (and yourself) when sustainable performance beats burnout-fueled output * Orchestration and agentic teams — and whether to hire a human or build an AI team first * The traits, like curiosity and grit, that outlast domain expertise in the AI era Chapters * Heidi’s Move Back In-House * Why Work Is Not Finite * Raising the Bar Without Burnout * Orchestration and Agentic Teams * Traits That Outlast Expertise Links & resources * Linkedin: Connect with Heidi Darling [https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidi-darling-cmo/] * Website: Learn more about Savo.ai [https://www.savo.ai/] If this one resonated, follow Growth Activated so the next conversation finds you — and if you have a moment, leave a quick review to help more marketing leaders discover the show. Growth Activated is produced by Mandy Hornaday. Thanks for hanging out with us today! Come build with us: The CMO Operating System is a six-week live cohort where you build your own system for running marketing like a business, so you can prove your value and grow without losing your freedom. The founding cohort is small and first by design, and the waitlist gets you in at the founding price before it rises. 👉 Join the CMO OS waitlist [https://www.growthactivated.com/cmo-operating-system]  Come say hi on LinkedIn: Mandy Hornaday [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandyhornaday/] Visit us: growthactivated.com [https://www.growthactivated.com/] Keep activating growth for yourself and your company. 💪

The 4 Mindset Shifts CMOs Need for AI Transformation - with Liza Adams

In this conversation, Mandy sits down with Liza Adams — former CMO, Human+AI org advisor, and one of the clearest voices on AI transformation in marketing — to unpack the four mindset shifts every marketing leader needs before AI can actually move the business. They go deep on what real AI transformation looks like inside a marketing org: how to scale beyond Q&A into orchestrated workflows, how to navigate AI sprawl, and how to lead change inside a quarterly pressure cooker without losing your people in the process. Liza Adams is the founder of GrowthPath Partners and a recognized leader in AI transformation for go-to-market teams — named one of the 50 CMOs to Watch and a Pavilion Fractional/Advisor of the Year Finalist. Her engineering background plus multi-decade GTM expertise gives her a uniquely pragmatic lens on AI adoption. Her bi-weekly newsletter is required reading for marketing leaders operationalizing AI inside their organizations. In this episode, you’ll learn: * Why "people-first, AI-forward" is the principle that should anchor every AI decision * The four mindset shifts CMOs need to unlock real AI transformation * Why "doing more with less" is the floor of AI value, not the ceiling * How to move from democratized building to orchestrated AI workflows (and avoid AI sprawl) * A simple framework for thinking about AI risk so governance protects — rather than blocks — your team * The "law of thirds" Liza uses to lead AI transformation without burning out trying to bring everyone along RESOURCES: * Connect with Liza Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizaadams * GrowthPath Partners (Liza’s newsletter & advisory): https://www.growthpath.net * Referenced episode: AI Agents and the Future of Marketing Teams — My Weekend Hackathon Wake-Up Call (E39) If this episode resonated, follow Growth Activated wherever you listen and leave a quick review — it’s the best way to help more marketing leaders find the show. Growth Activated is produced by Mandy Hornaday. Thanks for hanging out with us today! Come build with us: The CMO Operating System is a six-week live cohort where you build your own system for running marketing like a business, so you can prove your value and grow without losing your freedom. The founding cohort is small and first by design, and the waitlist gets you in at the founding price before it rises. 👉 Join the CMO OS waitlist [https://www.growthactivated.com/cmo-operating-system]  Come say hi on LinkedIn: Mandy Hornaday [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandyhornaday/] Visit us: growthactivated.com [https://www.growthactivated.com/] Keep activating growth for yourself and your company. 💪

Stop Running ABM Like It's Demand Gen: How to Build the Real Motion with Brandon Redlinger

#48 - Most ABM programs don't fail because of tactics. They fail before a single campaign runs — because the accounts were wrong, the structure wasn't there, and nobody agreed on what success actually looked like. Brandon Redlinger has spent his career inside account-based marketing — from building ABM strategy at Engagio and Demandbase to running it across a portfolio of companies today as founder of Stack and Scale. In this conversation, he cuts through the noise on what ABM actually is, when it's the right strategy for your business, and the framework he uses to bring real structure and accountability to how resources get deployed against target accounts. If you're thinking about launching an ABM program or trying to understand why your current one isn't producing, this episode gets into the details most conversations skip. About Brandon Redlinger: Brandon Redlinger is a fractional CMO and the founder of Stack and Scale, where he leads marketing strategy across companies ranging from seed stage to $200M in revenue. He spent years inside some of the most influential ABM platforms in B2B — including Engagio, Demandbase, Chili Piper, and revenue.io — and now applies that experience across a wide range of go-to-market environments. In this episode, we cover: * What ABM actually is — and how to tell it apart from just doing demand gen more carefully * The ACV and TAM thresholds that signal ABM is the right motion for your business * The account entitlements framework: how to deploy resources against target accounts with real SLAs and accountability * How to run a thoughtful ABM pilot — and the mistakes that sink most early programs before they get started * ABM for expansion: why going deeper into existing accounts is often the highest-leverage starting point * What's actually working in ABM right now — events, direct mail, experiences — and what isn't * The GTM engineer role and how it's changing what's possible in ABM execution * Stage-based attribution and how to prove ABM is working before the deal closes * Brandon's emerging model for account-level sentiment analysis using AI — and why it may be where ABM measurement is heading * Why sales and marketing alignment still breaks ABM programs — and how incentive structure is almost always the root cause Chapter Markers: * (00:00) Welcome and Guest Background * (04:13) Defining ABM and When It's Right * (10:22) The Account Entitlements Framework * (21:15) ABM Pilots, Expansion, and What Works * (33:38) Measuring ABM and AI-Powered Signals Resources: Brandon Redlinger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonredlinger/ Stack and Scale newsletter: https://stackandscale.ai If this episode was useful, follow Growth Activated on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a review — it's the fastest way to help other marketing leaders find the show. Growth Activated is produced by Mandy Hornaday. Thanks for hanging out with us today! Come build with us: The CMO Operating System is a six-week live cohort where you build your own system for running marketing like a business, so you can prove your value and grow without losing your freedom. The founding cohort is small and first by design, and the waitlist gets you in at the founding price before it rises. 👉 Join the CMO OS waitlist [https://www.growthactivated.com/cmo-operating-system]  Come say hi on LinkedIn: Mandy Hornaday [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandyhornaday/] Visit us: growthactivated.com [https://www.growthactivated.com/] Keep activating growth for yourself and your company. 💪

YouTube for B2B: From Zero to Results in 90 Days with Samu Kovacs

#47 - Most B2B marketing leaders know YouTube is the second-largest search engine on the planet. Almost none are actually using it well — and that gap is still wide open. Samu Kovacs, founder of KS Media, has built a YouTube-first agency that works with over 40 B2B clients — including Adam Robinson of RB2B — to turn YouTube into one of their top pipeline channels. In this conversation, he breaks down why B2B YouTube strategy is one of the most underleveraged opportunities in marketing right now, what's keeping most companies from cracking it, and what a real YouTube-first approach actually looks like in practice. If you've been circling YouTube but haven't been able to justify the investment, this is the episode that gives you a clear-eyed picture of what it takes. About Samu Kovacs: Samu Kovacs is the founder of KS Media (ks-media.co), a YouTube-first agency helping B2B companies build high-performing channels that generate measurable pipeline. His clients include some of the most recognized names in B2B SaaS, including Adam Robinson of RB2B. In this episode, we cover: * Why 90% of B2B companies still haven't cracked YouTube — and why that gap is the opportunity * What has to be true before YouTube is worth the investment (ICP, product-market fit, and beyond) * The realistic timeline to results: the 90-day, 4–6 month, and 6–12 month milestones * YouTube-first content strategy vs. repurposing what already exists — and why the distinction matters * Founder-led channels vs. company-branded channels: how to decide what's right for your business * Long-form vs. Shorts: where B2B YouTube ROI actually comes from * How YouTube is beginning to show up in LLM citations — and what that means for your B2B YouTube strategy Chapter Markers: * (00:00) Welcome and Episode Overview * (04:25) The B2B YouTube Opportunity * (12:25) Timeline to Results * (20:53) YouTube Content Strategy * (32:44) Case Studies and Takeaways Resources: Samu Kovacs on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samu-kovacs/ KS Media: https://ks-media.co If this episode was useful, follow Growth Activated on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a review — it's the fastest way to help other marketing leaders find the show. Growth Activated is produced by Mandy Hornaday. Thanks for hanging out with us today! Come build with us: The CMO Operating System is a six-week live cohort where you build your own system for running marketing like a business, so you can prove your value and grow without losing your freedom. The founding cohort is small and first by design, and the waitlist gets you in at the founding price before it rises. 👉 Join the CMO OS waitlist [https://www.growthactivated.com/cmo-operating-system]  Come say hi on LinkedIn: Mandy Hornaday [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandyhornaday/] Visit us: growthactivated.com [https://www.growthactivated.com/] Keep activating growth for yourself and your company. 💪

Elevating the CMO Role: Becoming a Chief Market Orchestrator with Matt Heinz

#46 - The CMO has the shortest tenure in the C-suite. The most scrutiny. And right now, more opportunity than ever — if you can see it clearly enough to seize it. Matt Heinz has spent 18 years helping B2B companies build more predictable revenue, and he talks to more CMOs on a weekly basis than almost anyone. In this conversation, he lays out exactly how the CMO role is evolving — from chief MQL officer to chief market officer to what he calls the chief market orchestrator — and what that shift actually demands of the leaders trying to grow into it. From how you tell your story internally, to where AI fits in the marketing org, to the one place in go-to-market where most companies are leaving the most on the table, this is a conversation worth your full attention. About Matt Heinz: Matt Heinz is the founder of Heinz Marketing, a B2B marketing consultancy focused on helping companies with complex buying journeys build more predictable pipeline. He's also the host of CMO Coffee Talk, a community of 3,700+ CMOs and heads of marketing. He has spent 18 years in the trenches of B2B go-to-market strategy. In this episode, we cover: * The CMO role evolution — from chief MQL officer to chief market officer to chief market orchestrator * Why the CMO who best understands the market should own more of the business than most org charts allow * Revenue predictability: how to approach it from the top down and the bottom up * The "messy middle" — the highest-leverage gap in most B2B go-to-market motions * How to tell a smarter story to your CFO (stop showing where you're spending; show what you're buying) * Where to start with AI adoption — and why the broad training session approach almost always fails * What the future of marketing org design looks like as agentic workflows take over repetitive work * The most common places CMOs are still stubbing their toes right now Chapter Markers: * (00:00) Welcome and Episode Context * (05:03) Chief MQL Officer to Market Orchestrator * (12:25) Revenue Narrative and Attribution * (23:21) Future of Marketing Teams and AI * (31:58) Where CMOs Keep Stubbing Their Toes Resources: * Matt Heinz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattheinz/ * Heinz Marketing: https://heinzmarketing.com If this episode was useful, follow Growth Activated on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a review — it's the fastest way to help other marketing leaders find the show. Growth Activated is produced by Mandy Hornaday. Thanks for hanging out with us today! Come build with us: The CMO Operating System is a six-week live cohort where you build your own system for running marketing like a business, so you can prove your value and grow without losing your freedom. The founding cohort is small and first by design, and the waitlist gets you in at the founding price before it rises. 👉 Join the CMO OS waitlist [https://www.growthactivated.com/cmo-operating-system]  Come say hi on LinkedIn: Mandy Hornaday [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandyhornaday/] Visit us: growthactivated.com [https://www.growthactivated.com/] Keep activating growth for yourself and your company. 💪