#30 Peter Kujawa: The Data Doesn't Lie - What 20 Years of MSP Benchmarking Actually Shows

#31 Rutger Katz: Why AI Won't Fix Your MSP

Most MSPs are being sold AI. Rutger Katz thinks they're being sold the wrong thing first. In this episode, James Steel talks to the RevOps consultant and former Capgemini data and AI specialist about what actually needs to be in place before AI delivers any value, and what the competitive landscape looks like for MSPs who skip the boring work. What you'll learn: → Why AI makes bad data worse, not better (and what to fix first) → How to document a sales process when none exists (the ride-along method)  → Where revenue disappears in the sales-to-delivery handover, and how to stop it  → How to apply theory of constraints to find your real bottleneck  → What a "digital brain twin" is and how to build one using Obsidian and Claude  → Why the fractional AI operations role is the next big hire for growing MSPs  → The competitive threat that's two years away, and why it matters now _______ Rutger Katz is a Revenue Operations consultant and founder of Neon Triforce. With a background in neuroscience and 14 years spanning Capgemini, enterprise technology adoption, and AI implementation, he now works fractionally with smaller organisations to build the data and process foundations that make AI genuinely useful.  Connect with Rutger on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rutgerkatz/ _______ About Harvest! Harvest! The MSP Sales Show is the podcast for MSPs who want to grow smarter from the clients they already have. New episodes weekly, hosted by James Steel and sponsored by Salesbuildr — the quotation and proposal platform for MSPs. Chapters  00:00 Introduction  02:30 What is Revenue Operations, and why it's not just the CRM guy  07:00 Rutger's background: neuroscience, Capgemini, social robots  14:00 Why AI fails without the right data and process foundations  21:00 How to document a process when none exists  26:00 The handover problem, where MSP revenue leaks  29:00 Theory of constraints and finding the real bottleneck  34:00 When AI finally enters the picture  38:00 Building a digital brain twin with Obsidian and Claude  42:00 The competitive threat, and the fractional AI role  45:00 Industry Manure: stop buying AI tools  48:00 Pass the Pitchfork  50:00 Yell from the barn: Rutger's work and where to find him Links  🔗 Rutger Katz on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/rutkatz  🌐 Neon Triforce: neontriforce.com  📊 Salesbuildr (sponsor): salesbuildr.com  🎙️ Subscribe to Harvest!: salesbuildr.com/podcast Tags MSP, managed services, revenue operations, RevOps, AI strategy, AI readiness, lean management, theory of constraints, process improvement, MSP sales, MSP growth, IT channel, Harvest podcast, Rutger Katz, Neon Triforce, Salesbuildr, James Steel, sales process, business operations, AI tools

#30 Peter Kujawa: The Data Doesn't Lie - What 20 Years of MSP Benchmarking Actually Shows

In this episode, we sit down with Peter Kujawa, VP of Service Leadership at ConnectWise, to explore why so many MSPs are unknowingly losing money on the clients they've had the longest, and what the data says about fixing it. Peter brings 21 years of MSP benchmarking experience through Service Leadership Inc., tracking financial and operational performance across hundreds of managed service providers worldwide every quarter. In this conversation, recorded live at IT Nation Connect Europe in London, he shares what separates the most profitable MSPs from the rest, and why the gap almost always comes down to pricing, not technology. If you run or lead a Managed Service Provider and want to understand what the benchmarking data actually shows about growing revenue from your existing customer base, this episode is essential listening. ⸻ What you'll learn in this episode: • Why pricing is the number one gap between high- and low-performing MSPs • How to analyse profitability per customer, not just in aggregate • Why the land-and-expand strategy works less than 20% of the time • How to attract strategic buyers and filter out price-point buyers • The 15-customer rule for adding new products without breaking your service factory • Why nobody has cracked AI recurring revenue for MSPs yet, and what to focus on instead ⸻ Peter Kujawa is VP of Service Leadership at ConnectWise, leading the benchmarking and peer group division that has tracked MSP profitability across 10 business models worldwide for 21 consecutive years. Before joining ConnectWise, Peter ran his own MSP for 11 years — not as a technician, but as a turnaround CEO with a background in sales leadership and law. Find Peter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterkujawa ⸻ Harvest is a podcast for growing MSPs and IT service providers who want practical strategies to improve their business without relying solely on net-new customers. Each episode features conversations with industry leaders, founders, and operators sharing real-world insights from inside the managed services industry. ⸻ 👍 If you enjoyed this episode, like, subscribe, and share with other MSP leaders. 🌽 More from Harvest: Subscribe for regular episodes on growing revenue from your existing MSP customers. 🎧 Full episode + extras: https://www.salesbuildr.com/podcast 🔗 Follow Harvest on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/harvest-the-msp-sales-show/ Sponsored by Salesbuildr — automated, systemised quoting and proposals for Halo, ConnectWise and Autotask: https://www.salesbuildr.com

#29 Dan Wensley on the Future of MSPs: Change Is the Only Constant

In this episode of Harvest, we sit down with Dan Wensley, CEO of the Global Technology Industry Association, to explore how MSPs can grow and stay relevant in an industry defined by constant change. Dan brings over 30 years of experience working at the forefront of major technology shifts, from the early days of the internet and RMM platforms to cloud computing and today’s AI revolution. In this conversation, he shares the lessons he’s learned from scaling technology companies and working alongside thousands of managed service providers around the world. Together, we discuss how MSP leaders can build stronger teams, adapt to rapid technological change, and create real value for their clients beyond simply delivering IT support. If you run or lead a Managed Service Provider (MSP) and want to stay ahead of the next wave of industry disruption, this episode is packed with insights. ⸻ What you’ll learn in this episode  • Why change is the only constant in the MSP industry  • How successful MSPs scale teams and leadership  • Why good employees rarely fail — systems and leadership do  • The role of community and peer groups in MSP growth  • How AI is changing the pace of technology adoption  • Why MSPs must shift from IT provider to business growth partner ⸻ Dan Wensley is the CEO of the Global Technology Industry Association and a long-time leader in the managed services ecosystem. Over the past three decades, he has helped build and scale multiple technology companies and played a key role in shaping the global MSP community. Find Dan on LinkedIn:  / danwensleyceogtia   And make sure you follow GTIA as well:  / gtiaofficial   ⸻ Harvest is a podcast for growing MSPs and IT service providers who want practical strategies to improve their business without relying solely on net-new customers. Each episode features conversations with industry leaders, founders, and operators sharing real-world insights from inside the managed services industry. ⸻ 👍 If you enjoyed this episode, like, subscribe, and share with other MSP leaders. 🌽 More from Harvest: Subscribe for regular episodes on growing revenue from your existing MSP customers. 🎧 Full episode + extras: https://www.salesbuildr.com/podcast 🐦 Follow Harvest on LinkedIn:  / harvest-the-msp-sales-show   Sponsored by Salesbuildr - automated, systemised quoting and proposals for Halo, Connectwise and Autotask: https://www.salesbuildr.com

#28 Perry Ashby: Why Are You Still Chasing New Clients When Your Best Revenue is Already Here?

Perry Ashby from Urban Network has been running MSPs since 2003, and he's learned the hard way that the best growth doesn't come from chasing new logos—it comes from talking to the clients you already have. In this episode, Perry breaks down: • Why account management beats net-new sales every time • The two types of conversations every MSP should have with clients (and who should have them) • How to identify white space without drowning in spreadsheets • Project scoping mistakes that kill profitability (and how to fix them) • Why "super busy" doesn't mean profitable • When to fire a client (and why it might be the best thing for your team) Perry doesn't hold back on what's working, what's not, and the "11 Arif people" ruining our industry with peacocking BS. Find Perry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/perryashby/ And check out his company page here: https://www.urbannetwork.co.uk 🌽 More from Harvest: Subscribe for regular episodes on growing revenue from your existing MSP customers. 🎧 Full episode + extras: https://www.salesbuildr.com/podcast 🐦 Follow Harvest on LinkedIn:   / harvest-the-msp-sales-show   Sponsored by Salesbuildr - automated, systemised quoting and proposals for Halo, Connectwise and Autotask: https://www.salesbuildr.com

#27 Paul Lloyd: Why "I'm Not a Salesperson" Is Killing Your MSP Growth

In this episode Paul Lloyd from Sellerly challenges the biggest lie MSP owners tell themselves: "I don't want to be pushy." In this episode, we talk about why the "work on your business, not in it" advice doesn't work for UK MSPs, why constantly planning your exit stops you building anything worth selling, and why lead generation isn't nearly as complicated as the experts want you to believe. Paul spent 30 years in tech sales and management, working for a founder who built a £2.5 billion business. That founder had helicopters and yachts. What he didn't have was Friday afternoons off. If you're stuck between £1M and £5M revenue and can't figure out why nothing's moving, this episode explains it. Key topics: * Why the sales mindset problem is holding you back * The relationship paradox in MSP sales * Why "we're all set" doesn't mean never * Lead gen tactics that actually work * The hard truth about growth requiring hard work Find Paul: LinkedIn (Paul Lloyd)