Beyond the Prescription : A Relational Approach to Psychopharmacology | Ep15

Beyond the Prescription : A Relational Approach to Psychopharmacology | Ep15

What if prescribing medication meant more than following an algorithm,  it meant walking alongside patients in their stories? In Episode 15 of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Warren Kinghorn and Dr. Abraham Nussbaum discuss their co-authored book Prescribing Together: A Relational Guide to Psychopharmacology. Drawing on the Hasidic story of the Turkey Prince, they challenge the dominant “vending machine” model of psychiatry and emphasize meeting patients where they are, understanding the personal and narrative  meaning of symptoms like hallucinations, depression, or emotional dysregulation. The conversation covers collaborative prescribing for conditions including schizophrenia/psychosis, depression (and SSRIs), eating disorders, bipolar, and borderline personality disorder. They highlight the importance of diagnosis as a provisional tool that should open helpful pathways forward, the value of social prescribing and therapeutic relationships, de-prescribing when appropriate, and reclaiming psychiatry as a deeply human, meaning-centered practice. Top 3 Takeaways: * Relational Prescribing Over Dispensing: Move beyond symptom checklists and quick prescriptions to build trusting alliances, understand patients’ life stories, and collaborate on what will help them regain meaning and function even if the illness isn’t fully “cured.” * Engage the Meaning of Symptoms: Hallucinations, delusions, or emotional states are not just targets to eliminate; their personal significance to the patient, and potential overlap with trauma/PTSD matters. Questions like “What do these voices mean to you?” or “Do you want them to go away?” restore agency and open richer treatment possibilities. * Good Diagnosis Leads to Helpful Pathways: Labels should guide effective care rather than lock patients into unhelpful medication-heavy paths. Combine medications thoughtfully with social connections, presence, and when needed, de-prescribing. About the Show Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship. "Our theme song, "Room for the Soul," is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul [https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul]." About the Guests Dr. Warren Kinghorn is a psychiatrist and theologian, and co-director of the Theology, Medicine, and Culture Initiative at Duke Divinity School. He is passionate about psychiatry as a relational practice rooted in practical wisdom and human connection. Dr. Abraham Nussbaum is a psychiatrist at the University of Colorado School of Medicine and Denver Health, where he serves as Chief Education Officer. He is a writer and educator who emphasizes narrative approaches in medicine and the importance of restoring patients’ stories. Together, they are the authors of Prescribing Together: A Relational Guide to Psychopharmacology. Connect with the Guests Dr. Warren Kinghorn: warren.kinghorn@duke.edu | Duke Faculty Page [https://divinity.duke.edu/faculty/warren-kinghorn] Dr. Abraham Nussbaum: Abraham.Nussbaum@dhha.org | abrahamnussbaum.com/contact [https://abrahamnussbaum.com/contact/] About the Host Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on  patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being. He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients. 🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com [https://healerswholisten.com] 🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a [http://linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a] 📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen [https://www.instagram.com/healerswholisten] 📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle [https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.weinkle]   The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Five Keys to Sustaining Your Career in the Helping Profession with Dr. Brian C. Miller | Ep14

Can healthcare professionals remain compassionate while working inside systems that often undermine compassion itself? In Part 2 of this powerful conversation, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle continues his discussion with therapist, researcher, and author Dr. Brian C. Miller about sustaining meaning and emotional wellbeing in the helping professions. Together, they tackle the difficult reality many clinicians face: systems overloaded with bureaucracy, time pressure, documentation demands, and emotional exhaustion. Rather than ignoring those systemic failures, Brian argues that clinicians must learn how to remain active participants in their work instead of passive victims of broken institutions. Through concepts like “un-gloving” instead of “armoring up,” cultivating ease rather than constant fight-or-flight, and shifting from earned compassion to radical compassion, Brian reframes resilience as an ongoing practice of emotional regulation, connection, and meaning-making. The episode also explores Brian’s CE-CERT model, practical strategies for reducing emotional labor, and the importance of narrative in sustaining a career in healthcare. Blending psychology, spirituality, medicine, and personal reflection, this conversation offers clinicians a hopeful but realistic framework for staying human in environments that often feel dehumanizing. Top 3 Takeaways: * Burnout Is Fueled More by Systems Than by Patients: Dr. Brian Miller explains that the greatest sources of emotional exhaustion are often not traumatic patient encounters, but systemic failures like excessive documentation, bureaucracy, and broken healthcare structures. Sustainable healing work begins by acknowledging those realities while still finding meaningful moments of human connection within them. * Compassion Requires Ease, Not Constant Self-Protection: Clinicians cannot experience true compassion while stuck in fight-or-flight mode. Brian emphasizes the importance of creating moments of emotional ease and nervous system regulation throughout the workday, even through small practices like conscious breathing, body awareness, or brief pauses between patient encounters. * Radical Compassion Means Caring Before Patients Earn It: Some patients naturally elicit empathy, while others trigger frustration, defensiveness, or emotional distance. Brian argues that true healing work involves cultivating compassion even for the most difficult patients by becoming curious about their suffering rather than reacting to their behavior. About the Guest: Dr. Brian C. Miller is a therapist, researcher, and author specializing in secondary traumatic stress, emotional resilience, and sustainability in the helping professions. He holds a PhD in social science research from Case Western Reserve University and has worked extensively in behavioral health with both adults and children. Brian is the author of Reducing Secondary Traumatic Stress: Skills for Sustaining a Career in the Helping Professions, where he challenges conventional burnout narratives and offers practical approaches for cultivating empathy, emotional boundaries, and resilience in caregiving professions.  🔗 Connect with Dr. Brian C. Miller: Website: https://www.cecertmodel.com [https://www.cecertmodel.com/] 📚 Book: Reducing Secondary Traumatic Stress: Skills for Sustaining a Career in the Helping Professions [https://www.amazon.com/Reducing-Secondary-Traumatic-Stress-Miller/dp/0367494574]   ABOUT THE SHOW: Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship. "Our theme song, "Room for the Soul," is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul [https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul]." ABOUT THE HOST: Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on  patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being. He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients. 🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com [https://healerswholisten.com] 🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a [http://linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a] 📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen [https://www.instagram.com/healerswholisten] 📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle [https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.weinkle]   The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

We're Thinking About Burnout All Wrong with Dr. Brian C. Miller | Ep13

Is burnout really caused by caring too much? In part one of this two-part episode  of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle welcomes Dr. Brian C. Miller for a powerful conversation that challenges conventional wisdom around burnout, compassion fatigue, and emotional exhaustion in healthcare. Drawing from his book Reducing Secondary Traumatic Stress: Skills for Sustaining a Career in the Helping Professions, Brian argues that compassion itself is not draining, rather, genuine compassion can become a source of energy and resilience. Together, they explore the difference between empathy and emotional over-identification, the role of humility in patient care, and why emotional boundaries are essential for sustaining meaningful work. Brian shares insights from his experiences as a therapist and from the devastating loss of his son to leukemia, reflecting on how healthcare professionals can remain emotionally open without becoming overwhelmed. Through stories, psychology, and spiritual narrative, the episode reframes burnout not as a failure of resilience, but as a challenge of meaning, boundaries, and connection. Top 3 Takeaways: * Compassion Is Not the Cause of Burnout: Dr. Brian Miller challenges the popular idea of “compassion fatigue,” arguing that compassion itself is energizing rather than depleting. What exhausts clinicians is emotional labor rooted in ego, defensiveness, and poor boundaries. Genuine empathy combined with healthy self-other distinction allows healthcare professionals to care deeply without absorbing patients’ suffering as their own. * Humility Creates Better Patient Connections: Through stories from therapy and medicine, Brian explains how setting aside ego helps clinicians truly hear what patients are saying beneath anger, fear, or criticism. Rather than reacting defensively, providers can ask, “Where does it hurt?” This shift toward humility transforms difficult interactions into opportunities for authentic connection and healing. * Sustainable Healing Requires Both Caring and Letting Go: The conversation explores the “twin dynamics” of caring and not caring. Clinicians must remain emotionally open while also maintaining boundaries that protect their own emotional wellbeing. By cultivating emotional agility and a meaningful narrative around their work, helping professionals can stay engaged without becoming consumed by the suffering they witness.. About the Guest: Dr. Brian C. Miller is a therapist, researcher, and author specializing in secondary traumatic stress, emotional resilience, and sustainability in the helping professions. He holds a PhD in social science research from Case Western Reserve University and has worked extensively in behavioral health with both adults and children. Brian is the author of Reducing Secondary Traumatic Stress: Skills for Sustaining a Career in the Helping Professions, where he challenges conventional burnout narratives and offers practical approaches for cultivating empathy, emotional boundaries, and resilience in caregiving professions. 🔗 Connect with Dr. Brian C. Miller: Website: https://www.cecertmodel.com [https://www.cecertmodel.com]  📚 Book: Reducing Secondary Traumatic Stress: Skills for Sustaining a Career in the Helping Professions [https://www.amazon.com/Reducing-Secondary-Traumatic-Stress-Miller/dp/0367494574]   ABOUT THE SHOW: Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship. "Our theme song, "Room for the Soul," is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul [https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul]." ABOUT THE HOST: Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on  patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being. He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients. 🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com [https://healerswholisten.com] 🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a [http://linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a] 📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen [https://www.instagram.com/healerswholisten] 📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle [https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.weinkle] The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Singing in Exile: Music, Hope, and the Passover Seder | Ep 12

Can we sing songs of joy when our world feels broken? In this special pre-Passover episode, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle delivers a powerful live session from the Conference on Medicine and Religion. Starting with Psalm 137 (“By the rivers of Babylon”), he weaves together biblical texts, Jewish history, the trauma of the Tree of Life synagogue shooting, and live musical performances to show how music becomes medicine for the soul in exile. Through original songs, traditional melodies, and wordless niggunim, Dr. Weinkle demonstrates how we hold both grief and hope. He explores the four levels of Jewish interpretation (PaRDeS) and ends with the core message of the Exodus: because we were once slaves, we are called to empathy and to ease the suffering of others. Top 3 Takeaways: * Singing in the Strange Land: Even when we feel exiled by illness, grief, displacement, or trauma, we can still create and share music that carries memory, praise, and hope. * Music as Soul Medicine: Songs help us process pain while reminding us of wholeness, human dignity, and the divine spark   vital for both patients and healthcare professionals. * Empathy from the Exodus: The Passover story transforms our suffering into compassion. Because we were strangers and oppressed, we must work to stop the suffering of others. About the Show: Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship. "Our theme song, "Room for the Soul," is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul [https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul]." About the Host: Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on  patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being. He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients. 🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com [https://healerswholisten.com] 🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a [http://linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a] 📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen [https://www.instagram.com/healerswholisten] 📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle [https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.weinkle]   The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Dwelling in the 'Who Knows' - Chaplaincy in Crisis | Ep11

What happens when medicine says "I don't know" and chaplains step in to hold the unknown? In Episode 11 of Healing People, Not Patients, Rabbi Kara Tav shares her experience starting as a palliative care chaplain at NYU Langone Brooklyn just weeks before the world recognized COVID-19 as a pandemic. She describes transforming hospital units, supporting weeping doctors who couldn't admit uncertainty, ministering to isolated dying patients, and navigating moral injury amid refrigerated trucks, empty trains, and public gratitude that didn't fully grasp the horror. Drawing on Jewish teachings, she explores chaplaincy as presence in the "who knows," helping access inner spiritual resources for healing, and emerging from trauma with hope that survival itself is a miracle. Top 3 Takeaways: * Chaplaincy's Unique Role: Chaplains minister to the spirit alongside medical teams, helping patients and staff access inner resources and meaning especially vital when doctors face the limits of knowledge and say "I don't know." * Dwelling in Uncertainty During Crisis: In the early pandemic chaos, chaplains were comfortable in the unknown, providing quiet support to frustrated clinicians, creating prayer cards for unaccompanied deaths, and holding space for moral distress and isolation. * Healing Through Presence and Survival: True healing involves mutual noticing of suffering; chaplains model being present without fixing. Survival amid unimaginable loss reminds us people are meant for freedom, health, and rejoicing not endless suffering. About the Guest: Rabbi Kara Tav, MA, BCC, is a rabbi, board-certified chaplain, educator, and spiritual counselor based in Pittsburgh. With extensive experience in hospital chaplaincy including as manager of spiritual care and palliative care chaplain at NYU Langone Brooklyn during the height of the early COVID-19 pandemic she now offers consulting, counseling, teaching, and community education. She specializes in supporting spiritual needs in times of illness, crisis, and uncertainty, drawing on Jewish tradition to help individuals and professionals find meaning and resilience. 🔗 Connect with Rabbi Kara Tav: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rabbikaratav [https://www.linkedin.com/in/rabbikaratav] About the Show Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship. "Our theme song, "Room for the Soul," is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul [https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul]." About the Host: Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on  patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being. He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients. 🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com [https://healerswholisten.com] 🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a [http://linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a] 📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen [https://www.instagram.com/healerswholisten] 📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle [https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.weinkle]   The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.