Ep 54: The Art of Calling in with Loretta J. Ross

Ep 54: The Art of Calling in with Loretta J. Ross

This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus sits down with Loretta J. Ross — activist, MacArthur Fellow, Smith College professor, and one of the most clear-eyed movement builders of the last five decades — to talk about her new book, Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel. The conversation couldn't be more timely. With Democrats tearing each other apart in the run-up to the midterms and the left running on indignant anger, Ross offers something rarer and more useful than a hot take. From deprogramming white supremacists to teaching convicted rapists feminist principles, she's spent her career finding ways to reach people in order to build coalitions that win. Together, she and Marcus dig into the seductive pull of call-out culture, why purity politics is losing us elections we should be winning, and what it actually looks like to hold people accountable — with compassion, with strategy, and without burning your coalition to the ground. Along the way, Ross gives us a pragmatic roadmap for winning, using the "truth, time, evidence and history" we already have on our side. It's a recipe for justice borne from a lifetime of hard-won wisdom, and it couldn't be more necessary for the moment we're in. NOTE: this episode refers to sexual assault and rape. Please take care while listening. Mentioned in the episode: Trump bday party [https://www.npr.org/2026/05/31/nx-s1-5841889/trump-america-250-state-fair-artists-rally] | Blanche canceled crybaby fund [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/06/defeats-trumps-birthday/687393/] | WaPost Irizarry [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2026/06/02/pentagon-hires-convicted-jan-6-rioter-sensitive-counterterrorism-job/] | Pulte BB&B conspiracy theories [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-bill-pulte-housing-bbby-meme-stock-1235295044/] | Bedbugs invade administration [https://newrepublic.com/post/211269/federal-agency-agriculture-invasive-bugs-bedbugs] | Charles Douglas III episode [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-24-the-long-game-of-democracy-with-charles-douglas-iii/id1820256669?i=1000735692020] | Loretta Ross [https://lorettajross.com/] | Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781982190798] | 13th (2016) [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5895028/] | Pancreatic cancer treatment breakthrough [https://www.thebulwark.com/p/cancer-research-machine-trump-is-gutting-just-delivered-big-breakthrough-pancreatic-cancer-daraxonrasib] | The Sheltering Sky [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780060834821] Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.

Ep 53: A Politics of Grace with Jaelynn Scott

This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora spiral from Mark Zuckerberg's $300 million "Launch Pad" yacht docking in Seattle, conveniently timed with 1,400 local layoffs, into a searching, deeply human conversation with housing advocate and legislative candidate Jaelynn Scott. Together, they unpack trans safety, housing justice, coalition-building, and what it means to practice 'grace in the streets' while communities face escalating political attacks. Along the way, Jaelynn offers a powerful vision of leadership rooted not in optics or ambition, but in care, urgency, and the belief that government should actually protect the people most vulnerable to harm. This episode offers all of us a view of what it looks like to actually govern like people's lives matter. Mentioned in the episode: Zuckerberg's dumb yacht [https://www.seattletimes.com/business/zuckerbergs-superyacht-arrives-in-seattle-the-same-day-meta-laid-off-1400-local-employees/] | Careless People [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781250391230] | The Social Network (2010) [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1285016/] | US justice department launches criminal investigation into Trump accuser E Jean Carroll [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyp77jd407o] | City of Seattle poised to declare a civil emergency for LGBTQIA+ refugees fleeing red states [https://www.sgn.org/story/166221] | No New Youth Jail [https://nonewyouthjail.com/] | Estelita's Library [https://estelitaslibrary.org/] | Fannie Lou Hamer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Lou_Hamer] | Juniper Blessing [https://www.kuow.org/stories/juniper-blessing-uw-student-fatally-stabbed-remembered-for-her-magnificent-voice] | Graystar [https://www.dailyuw.com/article/nordheim-court-residents-say-complex-lacks-proper-maintenance-causing-security-concerns-20260511] | Republicans in South Carolina defy Trump to reject voting map changes [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkppvl4e3ko] | The Needling: Millionaires Tax Erases Only Advantage of Living in Sad, Barren Wasteland [https://theneedling.com/2026/04/21/millionaires-tax-erases-only-reason-to-live-in-barren-wasteland/] Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.

Ep 52: Your Labor is Your Power with Mark Paschal

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with worker-owner Mark Paschal of Seattle co-ops Jude's Old Town and Rosette for a conversation about what happens when workers stop asking capitalism for dignity and start building alternatives themselves. Between billionaire slush funds, Jeff Bezos embarrassment, and the slow collapse of the "customer is always right" economy, Mark lays out a radically practical vision of worker power, mutual aid, and community-owned futures: one shared meal, one workplace, and one neighborhood at a time. Mentioned in the episode: Jude's [https://www.judesoldtown.com/] | Rosette [https://www.rosetterainier.com/] | REI Union [https://www.ourrei.com/rei-union-news] | Dean Spade episode [https://youtu.be/-NQmLNXnkzM] | The Boys [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1190634/] | NAACP Boycott [https://apnews.com/article/black-athletes-ncaa-boycott-voting-rights-67fdb6561b7fb3dfd3c2a804047a68e5] | Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.

Ep 51: Still Here: A Year in the Meanwhile

Fifty-one episodes. Countless headlines. Several existential spirals. At least one national meltdown per week. And somehow, against all odds and several algorithms designed to emotionally flatten us into paste, we're still here. A year ago, Nora and Marcus started asking a deceptively simple question: what does it mean to live through this, and still remain human? Fifty-one episodes later, they're still asking. Because somewhere between the ICE raids and the mutual aid networks, the authoritarian absurdity and the small, stubborn acts of civic courage, In The Meanwhile accidentally became less of a podcast and more of a survival guide for people trying not to lose themselves in history's group chat from hell. In this retrospective, Marcus and Nora return to the conversations, guests, grief, jokes, and stubborn flashes of joy that shaped the show's first year: the voices that cracked them open, and the ones that quietly stitched them back together. The everyday people who reminded them that survival and surrender are not the same thing, and that the difference between them is often the people you choose to stay present with. This isn't just a look back. It's a reckoning with what it means to remain emotionally awake in a world that rewards numbness, commodifies despair, and teaches people to survive by disconnecting from one another. This episode is for anyone still trying to find their footing in the meanwhile. Because maybe the real point of all of this is that in the face of everything urging us to retreat into fear, cynicism, or isolation, we kept reaching for each other anyway. Even here. Even now. Especially now. Mentioned in the episode: Marketplace: impact of gas shortage still to come [https://www.marketplace.org/story/2026/05/04/the-jet-fuel-crisis-could-impact-summer-travel-even-if-you-drive] | Gina Baskin [https://youtu.be/vjQoQogabNA] | Minneapolis episode [https://youtu.be/SH9r5tclxFM] | Civic Bravery [https://youtu.be/xKLurpTVxFI] | Nilu Jenks [https://youtu.be/UmOCCXDlU04] | Gabriel Teodros [https://youtu.be/W7W1S4GRKuE] | Douglas Rushkoff [https://youtu.be/THMeWSlpJQ4] | Ijeoma Oluo [https://youtu.be/SPyLHuTwMVM] | South Seattle Emerald [https://southseattleemerald.org/] | Amelia Maris Bonow [https://www.instagram.com/ameliamaris/] | Daudi Abe [https://youtu.be/04v5wjnCNZg] | Maggie Humphreys [https://youtu.be/XCYLrei0CRQ] | A People's History of the United States [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780062397348] | Howard Zinn on hope [https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2229-to-be-hopeful-in-bad-times-is-not-just-foolishly] | Chelsea Handler roast [https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/chelsea-handler-tears-into-maga-comedian-tony-hinchcliffe-at-netflixs-roast-of-kevin-hart/] | Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.

Ep 50: Billionaires Get Galas, Moms Get Burnout - with Maggie Humphreys

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with policy powerhouse Maggie Humphreys for a conversation about motherhood, caregiving, misogyny, and why American families are forced to hold themselves together with duct tape and unpaid labor. From childcare that costs more than college tuition to the fight for paid family leave, Maggie breaks down why the U.S. doesn't actually have "family values" so much as a habit of expecting women to absorb societal collapse with a smile. It's a sharp, funny, deeply human episode about care work, policy victories, billionaire absurdity, and why Norway decided "zero maternal deaths" was, in fact, achievable. Plus: the Met Gala gets dragged, Jeff Bezos gets projected on, and Spirit Airlines becomes a co-op meme. Mentioned in the episode: Met Gala pranks [https://www.instagram.com/everyonehateselon_/] | Insta message from Mary Hil [https://www.instagram.com/reel/DX6qK-5IyjG/]l | Tax dollars on ballroom [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/05/us/politics/republicans-immigration-bill-trump-ballroom.html] | Seattle Children's helicopters [https://www.thestranger.com/news/laurelhurst-community-council-isnt-sure-helicopters-needed-to-land-sick-kids-at-the-hospital/] | Brianna Thomas episode [https://youtu.be/alb8WkOzLQ4] | US is last for maternal mortality [https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/jun/05/maternal-mortality-rate] | Zero maternal deaths in Norway in 2022 [https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2024/jun/insights-us-maternal-mortality-crisis-international-comparison] | Washington's PFMLA [https://paidleave.wa.gov/] | Jess Calarco [https://annehelen.substack.com/p/other-countries-have-social-safety] | Mifepristone [https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2026/05/they-came-for-mifepristone-the-abortion-rights-movement-is-ready/] | Mary Hill on BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/radicalgraffiti.bsky.social/post/3ml2bjpxl7s25] | Support the pod: Donate here [https://venmo.com/u/inthemeanwhilepodcast] to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast] | BlueSky [https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social] | Website [https://www.inthe-meanwhile.com/] Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9780262548038] The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise [https://bookshop.org/a/113982/9781609441432] Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers. Links to bookshop.org [http://bookshop.org] are affiliate links.