37 Fame Monster: being famous with Lea Turner

38 Seaside: LIVE at Creator Day 2026 with Dave Harland and Lea Turner

This episode was recorded in front of a live studio audience at You Are The Media’s Creator Day 2026. Huge thanks to FOUNDRY for hosting us - check out their coworking spaces in London and across the South coast (Eastbourne, Poole, Walthamstow, Hove, Wandsworth and Bromley) right here [https://www.foundryuk.com/]. I’m joined by a coupla LinkedIn legend Dave Harland and Lea Turner. Accidentally done two Lea episodes in a row because I’m a little behind in releasing recordings, but she’s worth it 😏 This is (somehow?!) the first episode with Dave despite him being mentioned in approx 87% of eps. We talked about all sorts including… how LinkedIn has changed since Lea and Dave first started out what seems to work now where the line is between sharing your personality without getting too personal whether LinkedIn premium is worth it how to navigate the feed tips for young people at the start of their career (spoiler: don’t use AI for your posts) the effectiveness (or lack of…) of company pages the best people we’ve connected with on LinkedIn how writing helps you find your voice the benefits of trying to be interested instead of interesting About my co-hosts Lea Turner is founder of The HoLT [http://the-holt.com], the community where freelancers, solopreneurs, and small business owners connect, share ideas, and grow together. Before starting The HoLT Lea spent four years training people how to use LinkedIn to grow their business, and she should know having amassed (at the time of recording) over 177,000 LinkedIn followers. Find Lea on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-turner/] and find out more about how to become a HoLTie right here [https://www.the-holt.com/]. Dave Harland aka The Wordman is a copywriter, event speaker and all-round good egg. He’s my biz partner at Copy Or Die - to can get us in fill in our briefing form [https://copyordie.co.uk/] 😉 and get Dave’s emails here [https://www.thewordman.co.uk/newsletter/]. He’s also working on his course on how to Write The Funny - get on the waitlist [https://www.thewordman.co.uk/course/]. Tracklist This episode is named after the first track on The Kooks’ Inside In / Inside Out album which came out (brace yourself) 20 years ago. “D’ya want to go to the seasiiide” next year? Creator Day returns on Thursday 6th May 2027. Get yourself on the guestlist [https://www.creatorday.uk/]. Guesting After I put it out there that I wanted to guest on more pods*, I got invited as a guest on the Content Byte podcast [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1OcDFqYPzyU3S9jvu0I3gQ?si=0GvMREJQSQehcgg5SfTNSw], run by Rachel Smith (from Rachel’s List) and journalist and content writer Lynne Testoni. Together they serve up weekly short bites of advice, tips and strategies. My episode is out now, all about how to get lucky in your career. Listen right here [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1OcDFqYPzyU3S9jvu0I3gQ?si=0GvMREJQSQehcgg5SfTNSw] :) *ICYMI this was the homework Charelle Griffith gave me in this b-side episode [https://indiebusinessclub.substack.com/p/b-side-how-im-going-to-grow-this] of indie business club all about how I'll grow this podcast. Byeeeeeee, Mel [https://substack.com/redirect/29269051-4a36-4fab-bdb8-72d016954ab6?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] Find my producer, theme composer and MUSE fan Ant Henderson on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/antphenderson/]. And listen to indie business club wherever you cast your pods. 🎙️ Spotify [https://substack.com/redirect/2863e896-cbe5-4d79-8ea2-09835aa734e9?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] / Apple podcasts [https://substack.com/redirect/093c5e99-cf99-4009-8e1d-5455269aca03?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] / Amazon Music [https://substack.com/redirect/f009f55b-92d7-4eb8-ba9c-186672b357ff?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] and Audible [https://substack.com/redirect/13b873d1-c0b5-40b0-89ed-7381271c4c06?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit indiebusinessclub.substack.com [https://indiebusinessclub.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

37 Fame Monster: being famous with Lea Turner

This episode is about the pros and cons of being (in my case, very mildly) famous in your industry I’m joined by LinkedIn legend, founder of The HoLT, and all-round wonderful human Lea Turner. Lea knows a thing or two about being famous - she’s built a following of over 208k followers across LinkedIn, Instagram and Threads. In the episode we talk about… - how Lea built her huge following - what’s changed since she started posting on LinkedIn - why fame is a luck multiplier - how to get “more famous” in your industry - why being famous isn’t all sunshine and lollipops I invited Lea onto the podcast because sometimes I walk into a room and a couple of people know who I am, but I don’t know who they are. For Lea, it’s like that times a hundred. This balance of “power” is sometimes a bit strange to navigate, so I wanted to know how Lea copes with her microfame and what tips she has for people looking to grow their “personal brand”. I hope you enjoy listening in on our candid conversation. About my co-host - Lea Turner Lea Turner is founder of The Holt [http://the-holt.com], the community where freelancers, solopreneurs, and small business owners connect, share ideas, and grow together. Before starting The HoLT Lea spent four years training people how to use LinkedIn to grow their business, and she should know having amassed (at the time of recording) over 176,000 LinkedIn followers. Find Lea on LinkedIn right here [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-turner/]. Tracklist This episode is named after the Lady Gaga album Fame Monster, with notable tracks Paparrazi, Money Honey and Beautiful, Dirty, Rich 😎 Guesting After I put it out there that I wanted to guest on more pods*, the lovely Lucy Heavens invited me onto her CMO Therapy podcast [https://open.spotify.com/episode/0SEzoPo1SI9jd7DqpPgtmW?si=RgmIvWXWR2mkSLsdCZjDGg&t=5&pi=oqoDe17dQUaFW]. My episode is out today, all about tone of voice. I had a lovely big ol’ chat with Lucy getting all passionate about word stuff. Listen right here [https://open.spotify.com/episode/0SEzoPo1SI9jd7DqpPgtmW?si=RgmIvWXWR2mkSLsdCZjDGg&t=5&pi=oqoDe17dQUaFW] :) Excuses, excuses I hoped to get this episode out about two weeks ago. But I was too busy with work. Then last week I was too busy having fun with my pals at The Marketing Meetup conference. ICYMI here’s my highlight reel from Dave Harland’s talk [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/melaniebarfield_sound-on-at-copy-or-die-were-trying-to-activity-7441793390817591297-FMAq?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAANzZTABz56wvLh6eSvX4wKvsWeUmNYqayw].When Ben left the podcast, I was determined to keep up putting episodes out every two to three weeks. But a heaptonne’s changed since then. Before, I was working with my three retainer clients (Copy Or Die, The Marketing Meetup, Bignose & Beardy). Now, I’m still working with all three. But my role at Copy Or Die has, er, grown somewhat. Instead of working with COD founder Dave Harland one day a week I’m now full time as Dave’s Managing Partner and Brand Voice Lead. Which is a blimmin dream - he’s brilliant to work with and we have a lot of fun. Most importantly, our clients are happy bunnies. We’ve been nagged/advised by friend of the show (and next time’s guest) Jonny Rose on how to use video to better demo what we do. So expect some absolute cringe attempts as we “build in public” *gulp*. Byeeeeeee, Mel [https://substack.com/redirect/29269051-4a36-4fab-bdb8-72d016954ab6?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] PS: This was a long episode, so Will’s Bookshelf gets a break this time. Find my producer, theme composer and man with a plan Ant Henderson on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/antphenderson/]. And listen to indie business club wherever you cast your pods. 🎙️ Spotify [https://substack.com/redirect/2863e896-cbe5-4d79-8ea2-09835aa734e9?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] / Apple podcasts [https://substack.com/redirect/093c5e99-cf99-4009-8e1d-5455269aca03?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] / Amazon Music [https://substack.com/redirect/f009f55b-92d7-4eb8-ba9c-186672b357ff?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] and Audible [https://substack.com/redirect/13b873d1-c0b5-40b0-89ed-7381271c4c06?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit indiebusinessclub.substack.com [https://indiebusinessclub.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

36 Delivery: newsletters with Molly Scanlan

How to use a newsletter to grow your business💌 This time, I’m joined by Molly Scanlan to discuss how to grow your business using the ancient (okay, at least decades-old) art of writing newsletters. Like this one. But do as I say, not as I do. We talked about… - why you should start (or resurrect) your newsletter in 2026 - how a newsletter isn’t the same thing as email marketing - examples of newsletters we love and why - how a newsletter can “world build” as well as show your authority - why you should talk about your newsletter “to an uncomfortable degree” And your friend and mine Will Slater is back with #WillsBookClub About my co-host - Molly Scanlan Molly Scanlan is a web designer, event speaker, quizmaster puzzlenerd and karaoke diva. She builds sustainable websites for non-evil businesses. The websites she makes are “better for the planet – but don’t look like they’re woven from brown rice”. Like me, Molly is a columnist for Freelancer Magazine. She also co-founded a social enterprise and co-hosts Cowork Crew London [https://coworkcrew.com/locations/london/] with your friend and mine Ange Lyons. She is busy. Molly also has one of my favourite newsletters of all time (it’s SO short!) called Molly Gets It Done [https://www.mollygetsitdone.com/signup/], which is why I’ve asked her to join me on this episode. She’s also one of my business besties. Find her on LinkedIn right here [https://www.linkedin.com/in/scanlanmolly/]. Tracklist The name of this episode is Delivery [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Y-EHqZNQA], a song by Babyshambles from their 2007 album, Shotter’s Nation. I was single for the first time in my adult life in 2007. I had a great time. It’s also when I was last single because it’s the year I met Mr Barfield. 19 years ago?! Bloody hell. It’s classic 00’s Britpop-rock and I chose it because if you send out newsletters you might choose to monitor your delivery rates and open rates… geddit? Resources In the episode, we talk about newsletters we love. You should try ’em some time. But first, Molly’s newsletter again - Molly Gets It Done [https://www.mollygetsitdone.com/signup/] - it is SO SHORT! Ange Lyons’ Font Love Friday [https://www.lyonscreative.co.uk/newsletter]A monthly newsletter on fonts, typography, and designery things Lucy Werner’s Hype Yourself [https://www.hypeyourself.com/community/]NB - in the episode, I called this newsletter “a substack” and spoke about how it’s on that platform, but it’s now hosted elsewhere. Partly due to the horrible situation we speak about in the episode. Signup is at the bottom of this page [https://www.hypeyourself.com/community/]. Dave Smyth’s Five Links [https://davesmyth.com/]A short roundup of links to do with user experience, privacy, accessibility and sustainability. Amy Nolan’s The Doodle Dabbler [https://doodledabbler.substack.com/]A short newsletter by our favourite doodler (and friend of the show) Amy Nolan, which includes a doodle prompt to get you scribbling. The Welsh Kitchen by Ross Clarke [http://user experience, privacy, accessibility and sustainability.]Get a recipe to a traditional Welsh dish along with links to Welsh songs and other Welshy things. Dave Harland’s The Word [https://www.thewordman.co.uk/newsletter/]Friend of the show Dave can explain what his newsletter’s all about. Emails to “help you come up with the weird, witty and funny words and ideas that all of the bore-bag brands in your sector struggle with.” She’s so lucky As a freelancer, you've got to ask yourself one question… “Do I feel lucky?” Well, do ya, punk? If not, Freelancer Magazine’s running a two-day masterclass series on 4th and 5th March. I’m running a workshop called “How to be lucky and win the freelance lottery” where I go into the (proven!) ways you can adjust your attitudes and behaviours to get more lucky. You get over a dozen other expert sessions, for keeps. Get your ticket here [https://www.freelancermarketingschool.com/courses/freelancer-masterclass?ref=fe649a]. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit indiebusinessclub.substack.com [https://indiebusinessclub.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

b-side: how I'm going to grow this podcast

I blagged a mini strategy session from the wonderful Charelle Griffith 👌 In episode 34, Charelle talked us through how to do our annual plan. I then asked her for a little bonus chat at the end about how she thinks I should grow this podcast. Her first question absolutely stumped me. Why do I want to grow this podcast? Errrrr… 🤷‍♀️ In brief - to build my profile, help as many people as I can, hopefully get it to a point where it pays for itself. Charelle then gave me the best bit of advice I think I’ve ever heard. And it’s so beautifully obvious. It’s easier to get people to listen to your podcast if they already listen to podcasts. So guesting on other people’s podcasts is a great way to bring in new listeners who are already podcasty. So I did what I was told. I posted on LinkedIn, Instagram and TikTok saying “please can I come on your podcast”. Now I’ve got around a dozen invitations to work through. Thank you everyone who’s reached out or tagged their podcast pals. If you have any podcasts you think I should pitch to (or your own that you’d like me to guest on 😉) please reply to this email to let me know. Creator Day I’m back at Creator Day in May to record another live episode of indie business club podcast. I’ve got two special guest co-hosts lined up to do it with me - all will be revealed next week. I can’t wait. It’s always such a fun time in Poole. Speakers at the event include previous guests Gus Bhandal and Phil Agnew along with Lea Turner, Michelle Goodall, Jon Alexander and Katie Stokes. 📅 Thursday 14th May (with my live podcast recording Friday 15th, in the morning) 🌊 Poole, Dorset 🎟️ Tickets from creatorday.uk 🍦 Save £20 on your ticket by using the code TeamMel There’s also a special Cowork Crew on the Wednesday 13th May, so I’m going to try and get there for the Wednesday through to Friday. Freelancer Magazine Masterclass Series Freelancer Magazine is running a two-day masterclass series on 4th and 5th March. I’m running a workshop called “How to be lucky and win the freelance lottery” along with a tonne of other freelancer experty people talking about topics like branding, onboarding, tone of voice and PR. More info right here (my affiliate link, where it costs you the same as it would if you bought it anywhere else, but I get a bit of cash to help fund the podcast). You get 14 practical workshops designed by experts especially for freelance business owners, with recordings to watch back whenever you like. The value is ridiculous so get your ticket here (again, there’s recordings, so don’t worry if you’ve got other stuff on that week). LinkedIn Algorithm Be Like I enjoy everything has ever written but this post in particular tickled me. Go follow him here and on LinkedIn. I’ve cut and pasted his post to maximise the chance you’ll read it but please go and thumb it here too. Andrew’s post: ————————————————————— HAGGLING WITH LINKEDIN OVER THE REACH OF MY POSTS: ME: Hi LinkedIn. Do you reckon you could show this post to a decent chunk of my followers please? LINKEDIN: Dunno. What’s it about? ME: Just trying to let more people know about the work I do. LINKEDIN: 15. ME: Excuse me? LINKEDIN: 15 people. That’s how many people we can show it to. ME: That seems… a little low. LINKEDIN: Now it’s 12. ME: Well, what about this. A pal of mine is looking for work, what can I get for a post telling people how good they are? LINKEDIN: 4. ME: Come on. LINKEDIN: 7, but three of them are chickens. ME: You’re joking. LINKEDIN: Yeah. They’re all chickens. ME: Can you show it to anyone who aren’t chickens? LINKEDIN: Do you have Premium? ME: No. LINKEDIN: Then you get the chickens. And we hate you. ME: Fine. How about a post congratulating an independent agency I know on a brilliant campaign they’ve just done? LINKEDIN: We can show that to literally one person. His name is Ken. ME: Will he be interested? LINKEDIN: Not really. He’s more into the chicken content. ME: So… why… LINKEDIN: Plus, he’s super angry, like all the time. ME: Ok… LINKEDIN: You want us to show this thing to Ken? ME: Definitely not. LINKEDIN: That’s probably best. He’d really hate it and he gets super rude. You got anything else? ME: Well, there is this one thing, but I doubt it’s worth mentioning. LINKEDIN: Let’s hear it. ME: Well, I used A.I. to create this shoddy video of me playing crazy golf with all the different Batmans and… LINKEDIN: 100 million. ME: Woah, really? LINKEDIN: 200 million. Everyone should see that A.I. Batmen Crazy Golf Video. It’s super aligned to our vision and values, somehow. ME: Wow, that’s amazing, thanks LinkedIn! Then I can just add a link to my… LINKEDIN: A single chicken. And you’re shadow-banned. And we killed your fish. —————————————————————— Byeeeeeee, Mel Find my producer, theme composer and certified grownup Ant Henderson on LinkedIn. And listen to indie business club wherever you cast your pods. 🎙️ Spotify / Apple podcasts / Amazon Music and Audible This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit indiebusinessclub.substack.com [https://indiebusinessclub.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

35 Hysteria: promoting yourself with Gus Bhandal

Make 2026 the year you promote the absolute heck out of yourself 👌 This time, I’m joined by Gus Bhandal to talk about ways you can build up some good old fashioned hysteria for your personal brand and your business. Gus is a LinkedIn expert. I have an unhealthy relationship with LinkedIn. So of course we gave the platform some air time :) But we also talked about… how speaking at events has grown our profiles the time Gus was a pub landlord (I didn’t ask if he ever got to shout “get outta my pub!”) stuff we see other people post online that makes us go “oh noooo” 😐 why it pays to be positive when you’re putting yourself out there getting famous (in our tiny bubble) And your friend and mine Will Slater is back with more bizpiration in #WillsBookClub Sidenote On the topic of LinkedIn, I did a poll this week [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/melaniebarfield_but-honestly-activity-7416413871424569344-xS-Z?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAANzZTABz56wvLh6eSvX4wKvsWeUmNYqayw] asking “If you know something was written by AI, do you keep reading?” Depending on what time you read this email, you might still be able to vote. But if you’re too late, you can at least see what the final tally was by clicking the picture below. I find it so interesting that despite all the hype around AI and how we’ll get “left behind” if we don’t use it, 57% of this sizeable sample of humans finds AI generated writing a major turnoff. Something to bear in mind when deciding whether to a) get a robot to do it or b) bring in me and Dave at Copy Or Die copywriting agency [https://copyordie.co.uk/] to get some squidgy human brains on the project. About my co-host - Gus Bhandal Back to the episode, and my guest co-host Gus. He’s a marketing strategist, social media specialist, LinkedIn trainer, and founder of The M Guru. He recently launched The Squeeze, a LinkedIn focused membership for freelancers and founders who want to get more out of the platform. Gus also co-created the LinkedIn focused conference UpLift Live. Find Gus on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mguruuk/] (chronically, like me) and on Instagram. Next steps… If you want to take LinkedIn more seriously, get yourself to UpLift Live to hear from the world’s leading LinkedIn experts and influencers. Including your friend and mine Dave Harland, who’s speaking at this year’s event. The full line-up is on the Uplift Live website [https://uplift-live.com/]. It’s in Birmingham on Thursday 26th March and you can get £20 off your ticket right here [https://uplift-live.com/] by using the code MELB. I get a few quid when you use the code, which will go on paying sound guy (and sound guy) Ant’s next invoice. Tracklist BTW, today’s episode name is Hysteria, a single by Muse from their 2003 (whaaat?!) album, Absolution. I picked it because as business owners we need to hype ourselves up and whip our clients into a frenzy of hysteria, so that they’re uncontrollably excited to work with us. Also coz Muse were the first band I saw live when they supported Skunk Anansie at Cambridge Corn Exchange in 1999. Good times. Let me know, how are you going to hype up yourself and your business this year? I’m going to try and bag a couple of speaking gigs, run more workshops (IRL and in person) and get onto more podcasts as a guest (it’s less work than making my own episodes) 😉Speaking of workshops… Freelancer Magazine Masterclass Series Freelancer Magazine is running a two-day masterclass series on 4th and 5th March. I’m running a workshop called “How to be lucky and win the freelance lottery” along with a tonne of other freelancer experty people talking about topics like branding, onboarding, tone of voice and PR. More info right here [https://www.freelancermarketingschool.com/courses/freelancer-masterclass?ref=fe649a] (my affiliate link, where it costs you the same as it would if you bought it anywhere else, but I get a bit of cash for aforementioned sound guy). You get 14 practical workshops designed by experts especially for freelance business owners, with recordings to watch back whenever you like. My talk is called ‘How to be lucky and win the freelance lottery’ (no lotto win guaranteed). Also speaking are… Alex Thompson - ‘Go from order taker to trusted partner: earn more by doing less’.Amy Nolan - ‘Amy’s lunchtime doodle creative livener’.Alastair Thomson - ‘Getting funky with finance’.Angela Lyons - ‘Create a memorable freelance brand across all platforms’.Anita Ellis - ‘First contact to signed contract – take control of your sales and onboarding process’.Eman Ismail - ‘Turn followers into clients: how to turn your newsletter into a lead machine’.Gus Bhandal - ‘The LinkedIn content superstar strategy’.Heather Murray - ‘Reach new revenue levels (without hiring) with AI’.Jess Bruno - ‘F*ck the algorithm – how to build a personal brand and double your visibility’.Lucy Werner - ‘Using your personal stories to get PR’.Penny Brazier - ‘Write like yourself (everyone else is taken)’.Ryan Percival - ‘Create a LinkedIn profile that works while you work’.Tamu Thomas - ‘Impossible to ignore: 3 steps to get paid to speak and build a magnetic expert profile’. The value is ridiculous so get your ticket here [https://www.freelancermarketingschool.com/courses/freelancer-masterclass?ref=fe649a] (again, there’s recordings, so don’t worry if you’ve got other stuff on that week). Byeeeeeee, Mel [https://substack.com/redirect/29269051-4a36-4fab-bdb8-72d016954ab6?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] Find my producer, theme composer and certified grownup Ant Henderson on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/antphenderson/]. And listen to indie business club wherever you cast your pods. 🎙️ Spotify [https://substack.com/redirect/2863e896-cbe5-4d79-8ea2-09835aa734e9?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] / Apple podcasts [https://substack.com/redirect/093c5e99-cf99-4009-8e1d-5455269aca03?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] / Amazon Music [https://substack.com/redirect/f009f55b-92d7-4eb8-ba9c-186672b357ff?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] and Audible [https://substack.com/redirect/13b873d1-c0b5-40b0-89ed-7381271c4c06?j=eyJ1IjoiMjRxeHBmIn0.JY0nXOBjbWqDF3FgzKtTN_4ED2cYpv7i43iBoRKY8t4] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit indiebusinessclub.substack.com [https://indiebusinessclub.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]