Episode 27. How to build a foundational wardrobe, with Irene Kim (김애린)

Episode 28. Dressing for real life, with Anna Newton

I am so delighted to share this week’s episode with the iconic Anna Newton [https://substack.com/profile/8886864-anna-newton] of the Wardrobe Edit. Anna is THE blueprint for a writing & sharing about style online, and I truly enjoyed chatting with her. Recording this episode was the highlight of my month. I truly hope you enjoy as much as I did. Transcript Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is Anna Newton [https://substack.com/profile/8886864-anna-newton], OG content creator, published author, YouTuber, and the creative mind behind The Wardrobe Edit [https://open.substack.com/pub/annanewton] on Substack. Anna, welcome to the show! Anna: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. We were just saying I haven’t recorded a podcast for the longest time, and I don’t think I’ve ever done one on fashion. Maureen: Today is the day to get it started. There are some amazing shows about fashion, so I hope to see you on some more of them if you want to. So I did want to just say before we get into it that I’ve been following you long enough that I wore the Giorgio Armani Luminous Silk on my wedding day, per your recommendation. Anna: And did you love it? Maureen: Yeah, I had been wearing it for a while, and I actually got my makeup professionally done. My makeup artist tried to color match me and she was like, “This Giorgio Armani that you have is a better color match and better than what I was making custom.” And I was like, okay! Anna: Okay. It’s the best. I wore it on my wedding day too. That foundation is such an OG. It’s been in my makeup collection for years. They’ve reformulated it. I don’t know if it’s a worldwide thing, but in the EU they’re bringing out some really strict regulations around certain ingredients, so we’re getting a lot of foundation reformulations, which is kind of exciting. Aside from this, I’d say foundation is my second most exciting pursuit in life. Maureen: Just wanted you to know that your recommendations are solid. Anna: I love that. Maureen: One of the recent series that you’ve been doing that I’ve loved is where you’re working with different personal stylists. Can you share a little backstory on the series and how it’s been? Anna: Oh my gosh, that has been so fun. So last January, I did a kind of “shop your wardrobe” series. A lot of people do a no-buy in January, and I was like, how can I create content that sits with that and is still fun and exciting and encouraging people to wear what we already have and just have a month of experimenting in a way? Last year I did do a session with Allison Bornstein [https://substack.com/profile/34975750-allison-bornstein]. I’ve done a few sessions with her over the years and just loved every single one. I think it’s quite a scary thing to work with a stylist. It feels quite vulnerable. It’s quite personal, having a meeting with someone you’ve never met before and going into your wardrobe. So I’ve really enjoyed doing those over the years to show people that it’s not a scary thing. It’s not something you have to do when you’re in complete dire straits with your wardrobe. I think that’s a common misconception, that you only work with a stylist because you’re out of ideas and feeling in a really bad place with your style. It can definitely help with that, but even if you’re in a good place with your style, it’s still valuable. Personally for me, a lot of my friends in my real life are busy, they have kids. Maybe they care about what they wear, but it’s not something they’re writing an online newsletter about. It’s been really fun to work with stylists in almost having a super stylish friend give you great ideas, come up with new ways to wear old pieces, give you little styling tips and tricks. I thought for this year I would build on that. I already had a session booked in with Allison Bornstein [https://substack.com/profile/34975750-allison-bornstein] and I was like, how about booking with Reva Luft [https://substack.com/profile/26290236-reva-luft]? What about Anna Baldwin [https://www.tiktok.com/@5aldwinanna]? What about Kelly Klein [https://substack.com/profile/35619496-kelly-klein]? What about Angie Uh [https://substack.com/profile/167309046-angie-uh]? It just kind of snowballed from there, and before I knew it my whole January calendar was full with stylist appointments with these people who I’ve mostly connected with on Substack. I enjoy their content from a reader’s perspective, so it felt really special to be able to work with them on that series. I’m a fangirl of these people, and I got to work with them and showcase their talent. Ultimately I came away with well over 150 new outfit ideas. It’s crazy. My phone is just full of outfits that I can wear. I got to share that with my readers and show them that having a styling session is a really fun thing you can do. You’re supporting independent women who have created their own stylist businesses, and there were so many ideas. Every single one was different. I didn’t go into each one with a specific spin in my head of who would help me with what, but it was really fun that I have the same wardrobe and each person brought a bit of their own personality and ideas to the table. It was really fun in the hour sessions that we had. By the end of it, I was always writing them before I went to bed. Because of the time difference, I was normally doing them at like 5 p.m., eating my dinner, and then desperate to sit on my laptop and write the post. The post was in me and I needed to get it out. It was really fun to find the different angles with different people and how they all brought something completely unique to the table. Maureen: Yeah, it’s been such a fun series. I’ve been lucky enough to work with both Allison and Angie myself, and I’ve had different stylists on the podcast. I couldn’t agree more as far as the value you can get from working with a stylist, especially in a short-term way where it’s a one-off session and you’re just styling in your closet together. I think it’s so helpful to get out of your own head of what you might do and try out things you might not have tried before. Your series is obviously great because you put in so many photos, which is so helpful because we get to see how everything comes together. I know I was inspired by how you were styling a flannel shirt. I lived in Seattle, so it has a very specific meaning to it. Seeing you wear a flannel shirt in a totally different way, I was like, okay, you can give new life and new stories to garments. I thought that was particularly fun. Anna: The flannel shirt was an interesting one because I think every single stylist gravitated toward it and used it in an outfit somewhere. Maureen: Really? Anna: Yeah, I’m pretty sure in every single session we ended up using it, but everyone used it in a slightly different way. Kelly did this trick where we tied it around the waist. Allison did a trick of wearing it open and using it as a sandwich layer between a white shirt or white T-shirt and a leather jacket. In every single one it was funny to see the same pieces styled in different ways. It’s almost like my true personal style is an amalgamation of all of those looks that everybody made. You could almost take pictures from each of the sessions and know which person did which. I think that’s fascinating when you’ve all got the same base material. Maureen: I’m curious, have you felt different getting dressed since doing the series? Anna: I’ve just written a post on this. It’s going to be out next week because I was like, I should hope so. Five hours with some of the best in the business, and we overran quite often, so it was more than five hours in a huge way. I think it’s actually shifted more than I thought it would. I thought I’d just do these sessions and then have a roundup post at the end and be like, here are the 10 tricks that I’ve employed since. But it isn’t so much the styling tricks that I learned, although there are definitely things I’ve put into practice. It’s been a bigger shift in terms of what I have in my wardrobe and how precious I feel about it. That’s maybe not the right way to say it, but in my session with Reva Luft [https://substack.com/profile/26290236-reva-luft] she said, “Your wardrobe is precious real estate. If things are in there, they deserve their place.” I ended up doing this massive wardrobe cull out of nowhere. One day after one of the sessions, I was like, right, I’m not wearing this. I’ve got this because I feel like I need to fulfill this category rather than actually using it and wearing it. It’s taking up space. So I got rid of almost 20% of my wardrobe. It sounds very extreme, but there were a lot of things that needed trimming out. It’s left me with fewer things, but things that are all fitting together more easily. It’s tricky to explain. I had this post in me that I was desperately trying to get out because I needed to put it into words. It’s been a different shift to what I thought would happen. Maureen: When you say that you culled 20%, I hear clarity in your voice. Were there specific pieces that you knew you wanted to cull? Or did you feel friction with those specific items during the sessions? How did that go? Anna: Yeah, I think they fell into a few categories. There was a category of things that just didn’t fit. I was like, but they’re vintage Levi’s and we love vintage Levi’s. And then I thought, if I’m saving them for days where I’m really feeling myself, that is not happening. I’ve got so many jeans, but I do love what I actually wear. Again, it’s taking up space and creating that decision fatigue around too many options. I’d rather just have the options that I like and that fit. Then there were things that I kept coming back to as problem pieces. I had a pair of burgundy cords, and in every single styling session I’d always be like, how do I style this? Then I was like, oh my gosh, it’s taking up a lot of space and a lot of time. I’m using time in these sessions to try to find answers to these burgundy cords, which when I checked my index stats, I think I had worn maybe three times in the last two years. I just thought, this is so silly. It’s obviously not a piece that’s working for me. There’s friction there. Take it out of the equation. In the past, I’ve been quite hasty and just boom, put it on Vinted or Vestiaire and gotten rid of it. Whereas now all this stuff is sitting upstairs, and I’m moving things in and out a bit slower than I’m used to. A few things have trickled back in. But I almost knew in my head which pieces had to go. Maureen: I wrote a piece a year ago that sounds exactly like what you’re saying, the distraction of the wrong thing. If you have a garment that you have to force or really think about, it takes away the fun of putting together an outfit when you have to work really hard at it. I think Angie talks about this a lot too. She probably has a different word for it, but she wants everything in your closet to be seamless. If it’s really hard to style, aside from whether it fits you, it’s just not fun. It’s heaviness and it takes away the joy that I think everyone in this space is looking to achieve. Anna: And I think there’s almost the misconception of, well, then you’ve stripped it back and you’ve got no personality pieces and no fun pieces. But I do have fun pieces in my wardrobe that I actually find quite easy to style and easy to wear. So I think it was showing me that I’d rather be wearing those and almost going back to basics in a way, feeling really good, feeling like my outfits are clicking and coming together, rather than grabbing something and going, I don’t like how that fits, or I only ever wear that with a black top and I’ve got no other ideas. So I think clarity was a big lesson that came out of having five-plus hours with professional stylists. Maureen: That’s awesome. This is kind of an off-the-cuff question, but one thing I continue to struggle with is that I’m still buying the wrong things sometimes. I’m trying really hard to buy the right things and pay attention to how I feel in my clothes and make sure they feel effortless and go with things. Then I look back and I’m like, what was I thinking? Do you feel that’s inevitable? Anna: Yes, I do. I think we’re all so hard on ourselves with this. Even the people who are the best in the business, even Allison Bornstein would stand there and say, I’ve bought some really messed-up things that did not work in my wardrobe, that did not look good, that did not fit. For me, and this is really lazy, but something arrives and I think, it’s okay. It’s fine. If I breathe in, if I wear it with these shoes. From doing these sessions with everybody, it’s made me be a better shopper, which definitely wasn’t the point. It was called Shop Your Wardrobe Month. I wasn’t meant to go out and buy lots of new things. I did end up buying a few new things. And I think it made me order the jeans in three different sizes. Even this jumper I ordered, I was like, the sleeves are a little bit short on it, is that right? So I ordered the next size up, and then that lost the fit around the body. Then I realized I wanted to keep the original size. It’s made me much more conscientious. It’s given me discernment around the fact that sometimes you just need to make the return. You need to get up and make the return instead of letting it sit there. And you need to try things in different sizes. That was a big thing for me, that “oh, that’ll do” mentality. Not realizing that actually one size up in that denim would give me a bit more comfort and bagginess, which is what I was looking for. That’s been a big learn for me. I know Allison and Reva are both big on the “make three outfits” rule. Reva, in our session, was like, “Do you make three outfits with new items?” In my head I was like, no. She said, “You need to be doing them in your wardrobe.” She’s right. I’ve done that with every parcel that’s come in. If I haven’t had time, I leave it to the side until I can do that kind of styling session myself. That has definitely helped. I’m saying this while the pieces are fresh in my wardrobe and I’m really excited to wear them, but I do think it’s inevitable. There are things you can do as insurance, but inevitably we’re going to make some not-great purchases sometimes. Maureen: I don’t know if you ever do this, but sometimes I’ll have a new item and I’ll try it on with different outfits and I won’t like the outfits, and I keep the item anyway. I’ll put together an outfit and think, I’m supposed to like this. It technically works, but it doesn’t feel good. And I’m like, well, it’s staying. Anna: I have so done that. Or shoes not fitting. It’s always shoes. Or a pair of shoes that are so uncomfortable, but you’re like, if I just walk 10,000 steps in them they’re going to break in. No, they’re going to make your feet bleed. There’s going to be actual blood in the back that you’re trying to get out before you put them on Vinted. It’s just no. Maureen: Well, all that being said, when I think of your career, you’ve worked with some huge brands, which from my perspective looks like a lot of options as far as what kinds of clothes you can bring into your closet. I’m curious, how do you stay consistent to yourself and your vision for how you want to dress when you have so many options? It feels like it would be even more difficult. How do you know when something is in your wheelhouse versus maybe not? Anna: That is such a good question. I do donate a lot. I have this with beauty as well. I have one face. I am one human. I’m a single person. Through doing Indyx, I’ve worked out that when my wardrobe starts to go over 200 pieces, which for some people might seem tiny and for others might seem huge, I start getting really overwhelmed and I hate what I’m wearing and I hate my style. So I’m very careful about what gets added to the daily rotation. I’m really lucky that quite often with the brands I work with, it’s a bit of a “you do you” situation. I don’t work with people who are like, you have to wear this top with this dress. That doesn’t work for me. I’m lucky to be at a place where I get a free pick of things. Whenever I’ve worked with Net-A-Porter, it’s literally pick off the website. I actually loan a lot of stuff from brands as well. Quite often it’s not necessarily things coming permanently into my wardrobe. It’s things I get to play with. To me, the ultimate is getting to work with a brand like Net-A-Porter where I loan items. Sometimes it’s really sad because they get sent back. Or I try things and then I’m like, oh God, now I need to buy this. It’s not as clean cut as that. But loaning is a really good way for me to play around with items. The brand is happy because it’s new-in-stock items I’m showing, but the ideal for me is when I get to incorporate them with what I already have. That’s ultimate. Maureen: And you do that very, very well. Anna: Thank you. That to me is ultimate because it’s authentic. I say to brands, we’re not wearing head-to-toe one brand. We’re mixing it with vintage, with secondhand, with a pair of jeans we’ve had for the last five years. That’s always the aim, to show people how these new pieces work with what I’ve already got and what you’ve already got, rather than head-to-toe looks. I think brands are realizing that’s the most authentic way to blend in these items instead of everything being brand new and pristine. It looks very clean, but ultimately people want to see the real-life application of things. Maureen: As a viewer and reader for so long, I’m very active in the personal style space, and I’ll see creators go to fashion week and every day they’re wearing a head-to-toe look. All the looks are fabulous, but none of the pieces are interchanged from day to day. Every single day it’s totally new items. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve become more jaded to that. Anyone can make seven incredible outfits with brand-new pieces seven days in a row. It’s so much more interesting to see how people make use of what they already have, style it in different ways. It’s harder. Anna: It’s harder. I think people love a capsule as well. That was so hot back in the day. I definitely fell down that rabbit hole. But it is more exciting to see that real-life remixing. I think that’s also why Substack does really well. A lot of people on Substack have jobs in marketing, they’re stay-at-home moms, they’re coming from all different walks of life, and they’re just showing what they genuinely wear every day. Not at a fashion show. They’re showing what they wear to drop their kids off, what they wear on their commute to work. That’s where Substack is a really fun place to play around with personal style. There are so many people. I follow well over 100 Substacks, and whenever I look at my inbox and think there are so many, I can’t edit them down because I genuinely love reading them once a week. That’s why it’s such a fun place to engage with personal style content, because people are just living their everyday lives and documenting what they actually wear. That’s what we want to see. That’s always at the crux of what I want to do. I never want to put on an outfit and not wear it out because that’s not really an outfit. That’s a work-from-home look, which is also fun to share. But I really want to be sharing those everyday, realistic outfits. I’ve got my sweats on right now. I snapped a little picture before this. It’ll be in my post on Sunday. Maureen: I took a picture too. I was like, I need to document what I wore to talk to Anna. Anna: I love that. That’s what we do, right? Maureen: So, I just feel like you’re so articulate in this space. I wanted to hear your take on the idea of intuitive dressing. When you hear the word intuitive, what does that mean to you and how does that show up in your life, if at all? Anna: I actually love this phrase. I know this is kind of your spiel, and I love it. I think it’s such an interesting phrase because everyone’s answer will be different. For me, and this has been the biggest shift in the last four years, probably since I had my son, it’s practicality. Intuitive dressing is dressing from a place that is very functional, but you also love your outfit at the same time. It’s marrying those two things together: practicality and functionality, but also feeling absolutely fantastic in it. I think sometimes people assume that if you have one, you can’t have the other. And I’m like, no, you can have both. Whenever I feel like I’m not dressing intuitively, or I’m not feeling my outfit, or it doesn’t feel authentic to me, maybe I’ve gone a bit too trendy, it always boils down to me also feeling uncomfortable in those outfits. Things are too tight. I love how fit comes up all the time for me. I’m like, girl just needs to buy jeans that fit. Maureen: Same. Anna: But I think it’s that something’s too tight or scratchy. Like you said, when you keep those things that deep down you know are a bad purchase but you keep them anyway. I do the same. A collar scratches or I don’t like how everything’s bunching up. It’s quite sensory for me. I really need to be comfortable in my clothing. I want it to be practical, but I also want there to be a bit of fun. Sometimes that’s what my style has been missing over the years. It’s the leopard print jacket, the vintage cuff, putting on some rings. Finding ways to add personality. That’s the bit that makes me feel cute while also wearing my rain boots. That’s the part that feels functional. Maureen: I have a theory and I’d love your take. I feel like in the 2010s, for us millennials, we’ve had to do a lot of unlearning, especially around the trends that were popular when we were coming of age. When I was in high school and college, comfort was not a priority at all. Your pants needed to be as skinny as possible. Practicality was not a priority. It was almost a bad thing. You should be wearing heels. I wore heeled boots to my college classes, walking everywhere. Practicality being important is something we’ve had to teach ourselves and give ourselves permission for. It wasn’t a mindset that was present. That’s why it feels radical and difficult for me. When I look at my mood board, all the shoes are super dainty. I want to give myself permission to choose less dainty shoes, but I still don’t quite have that mindset. I’m curious about your take on that. Anna: Absolutely. That’s such an interesting take because I had the exact same thing. My first office job was in London. I don’t live in London, so I had over an hour on the train and a 20-minute walk at the other end. And I was still doing that in exactly what you’re talking about, a heeled boot. I would never do that now. My toe boots are comfortable, but not for that every day. You’re right. It was sort of hammered into us. I would never have thought about comfort, function, practicality. It almost felt like a dirty word. Maybe it’s an age thing. My life now is very different. But there is a big amount of unlearning. I think it also comes from where we get inspiration, like Pinterest. It’s very city. Very London, New York, Paris. It’s quite posed. “That’s actually why I love Substack so much. I do so much of my screen-grabbing now from Substack because I live in suburbia. The other day I went down the road in my pony hair leopard print jacket and my neighbors were like, ‘Where are you going dressed like that?’” - Anna Newton for Intuitive Style So it’s about marrying that aspirational version with your real-life environment. Pinterest can be tricky for that. Substack has massively helped me marry those two parts together. Maureen: You’re making such a good point. Where we get our influences is directly forming our conception of what style is. If we’re consistently focusing on inspiration that’s impractical or purely aesthetic without relating to our real life, that impacts what we feel we should be wearing. Anna: Absolutely. For the longest time I was looking at London girls holding little coffee cups. You know exactly what my Pinterest board looked like. But that isn’t my life. Having my son made me switch that. I can’t rock up to a soft play — which is basically an indoor play center with cushioned everything — in a blazer coat, tiny bag, and high-heeled boots. I wouldn’t feel comfortable in that environment. What’s really helped me is finding style inspirations grounded in the reality I’m living. That’s helped me refine where I’m at with my personal style. Maureen: I appreciate that. I need to work on that. My mood board is moving toward practicality, but it could use more sneakers. Anna: Add a few more flat boots in. Maureen: Exactly. So I think we’ve touched on this a little bit, but I’d love to hear more about how you decide what to buy and what not to buy, especially in the context of those styling sessions where you mentioned you purchased a couple of things. Anna: It was quite ironic that I was doing these sessions as part of Shop Your Wardrobe Month and then I bought about ten things. My husband was like, “Anna, the UPS guy is here again.” I almost needed to buy a lot of things to get it out of my system. I saw a TikTok the other day that said wish lists are good, but they can give a piece a lot of power. You romanticize it. Out of nowhere I decided I needed a pair of Dries Van Noten colored trousers. I found some in the sale, bought them, returned them all, and now I no longer feel the need to buy them. I know that’s wasteful. If I lived in London, I’d go try them on in store. But sometimes you romanticize something and then you try it and realize it’s not what you need. The most successful purchases I kept were actually from my session with Reva. I keep talking about it because it genuinely felt like the styling session that changed my brain chemistry. We hadn’t worked together before, which made it fun. She’s also a mom of three and lives in Canada, so there was lifestyle overlap. Off the back of our session, she sent me a screenshot and said, “I think these things could be helpful for you.” One was a grey jumper. She said, “You love wearing your grey knit, but your cashmere knit is a slightly different vibe.” When I had my session with Allison, she agreed — it was sportier and more relaxed. I have worn this jumper so much. I was just thinking it needs to go in the wash after this session. So that was a good purchase. But like Reva said, I tried it on with so many things when it came. I also ordered lots of different versions to compare. I ordered the one from The Great. I didn’t order the Donni one because Donni’s now really expensive to get in the UK. They’ve upped the shipping and the imports and everything. I looked at that, I looked at the Still Here one, I shopped around until I was like, no, I think this is the one. So I definitely feel like I put a lot more research in rather than just, oh, I’ve seen that on someone, click. I really went digging for these. She also suggested a pair of black, kind of crepey trousers. I’ve got black linen trousers and I’ve also got a really nice pair of more dressy trousers, but I wouldn’t really wear them every day. They’re kind of a dressy pair for me. And she was like, the Rogala pants. I was like, oh, you need the Rogala pants. I have never tried the Rogala pants. They’re a thousand pounds. I was like, I just can’t ever do that. But she suggested the Donnie crepe simple pants or something. I ordered them in two different sizes and I’ve returned them. They are not for me. You’re doing a quick Google of them now. They’re just like a loose fitting black crepe trouser, a bit more all-season. I’ve obviously got a linen wide-leg pair which is very summery, but I just didn’t like them. I took her suggestion on, I tried a few different styles, and I think that sort of black trouser makes me feel like I’m back at school. There’s something about it that feels a bit school-uniform-y for me. I tried them in different sizes and I just couldn’t make them work. That’s an example of something where I was like, someone has recommended this, it’s a bit of a gap, but actually maybe that’s a gap that can just be a gap. I don’t think I need to fill it. I’ve got other things I can wear. What else did she suggest? Oh, she suggested rain boots. I live in the UK. It rains. It’s literally rained for about a month straight at this point. It’s thoroughly depressing. The weather is awful. She said, cool, what shoes are you wearing to the park when it’s rained? I was like, my Converse? She was quite tough love about it, but in a kind way. She was just like, that is madness. How do you not have a pair of rain boots? She suggested some, the Solomons. She’s also got a snow clog thing. It doesn’t snow that often here, but again, I researched, had a look around, and then I found this brand called Tretorn, based in Stockholm. They’re 100% waterproof. They’re perfect. I’ve worn them so often since. When I went for lunch with my friends on Saturday, both of them bought them by the end of our lunch. It’s things like that. She really helped me with practical holes in my wardrobe. None of those things are particularly sexy to buy. You wouldn’t be like, buying rain boots is a real game changer. But it has actually made my life easier. I know that sounds dramatic, but I wore them to Pilates this morning at the crack of dawn. I just slipped them on, then after Pilates slipped them on and walked out. It’s those tiny purchases that actually make your life easier. I needed her to say that to me. That’s not a hole I could find myself. So yeah, there have been a few things that I’ve bought and really loved, and then a few things I’ve tried and thought maybe that doesn’t work for me. Maureen: Do you have any sense of what was preventing you from having rain boots before, or was it just out of sight, out of mind? Anna: I think I thought they were ugly. I just thought they’re not for me. They almost felt too practical. I was like, I don’t know if I want to go there. I’ve got my Converse, it’s fine. I can put my Converse in the wash. It’s not a problem. I can wipe them down. But it’s about finding the right ones for you as well. Again, I played around with size. I ended up sizing down because my normal size were a bit too big and they looked a bit clumpy. And doing the stylist-approved thing of trying them on with multiple outfits really helped. I put them on and might have been unsure, but I actually like them best with black denim. My go-to is usually a blue wash of denim, but they can look a bit bulbous with that. They almost need something black to dull them down, to quieten them a bit. I’ve worn them so much. Everyone’s like, oh my God, Anna is wearing rain boots. I’m like, I know, check me out. Maureen: Even the idea of styling them with black pants makes sense for your style with clean lines and seamlessness. That makes sense. I imagine with blue denim they’d look very 2017. I feel like that was the moment. Maybe we’re just in a different place now. I could share one example from working with Angie. We talked a lot and she was like, I think you would like a black turtleneck. Similar to you, I tried it on with all the outfits and I was like, am I doing something wrong? And she’s like, no, your styling is great. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it. What I ended up doing was going into the Intimissimi store near me and I bought one in burgundy. It has a little silver shimmer to it. I don’t normally like shiny things, but I put it with all the same outfits and I loved it. It just had to be burgundy instead of black. So I think you can take the advice of a stylist and then run with it. They’re just giving you something to start with. It’s not rules. It’s just, hey, have you tried this? Anna: Everything I ended up buying wasn’t actually the thing Reva had said. She had sent over specific models of things and I didn’t end up buying any of those. And that’s not to diss on Reva. Maureen: No, not at all. It’s totally what you said. You need to find what’s right for you. Anna: Obviously you’re not a black turtleneck girl, but you’re a burgundy one apparently. Maureen: There you go. I wear it all the time. I love that. So thank you, Angie. Anna: We love you, Angie. Maureen: I feel like working with stylists is so cool, the melding of the minds. I don’t want to be too radical, but what we’ve been talking about with practicality and making that a priority, I think that’s huge. I think that’s one of the reasons you’re so popular and successful with what you’re doing. I think women want permission to wear things that actually suit their lifestyle and are cool, but not this Instagram aesthetic perfection. Something that doesn’t get in the way of life. I think you do that really well. You’re always talking about how you’re wearing it and why you’re wearing it. It seems like you don’t let style get in the way of living fully. Anna: I love that. Thank you. I think what I’ve realized through doing this for so long, I started off doing beauty and then had little moments with all sorts of things. Organizing, food, organization, lots of different things over the years. Cookies. I’m more than happy to be known as Cookianna. I’ll take that. Maureen: Do you still drink Squash? Anna: I drink Squash constantly. I’ve got it in now. The Squash is me. I am Squash. Cut me open, I am Squash at this point. So I’ve had a lot of different things over the years, but obviously settled on fashion. And I think maybe even five years ago, so not really that long ago, it was very much like, right, okay, let’s get some outfits together, let’s go meet a professional photographer, let’s take some pictures, do an outfit change. It felt like the fashion content that went down really well and that everyone really wanted was quite curated, very aesthetic, very polished, taken on a big camera with a massive lens, that kind of look. And now that’s really not the case. Everyone loves the little outfit selfie in the mirror that everyone can take. Anyone can do one of those, or just a picture downstairs in my kitchen. Quite often, I was out this weekend at a train thing. I am a train wife. My husband loves trains, my kid loves trains, I am around trains constantly. I was like, oh my gosh, have you been to the Bluebell Railway, which is our local heritage railway? I’m like, honey, I go there all the time. You want to find me? I’m there. But I was there and I just gave my phone to my husband and said, can you just take a quick picture? We were outside the men’s toilets. It was not aesthetically pleasing, but it was an outfit. I wanted a picture of the outfit in the moment as I was wearing it. And that’s what I like to see on other people’s Substacks and Instagrams. I think there’s been a real shift industry-wide. That just feels like what we like now. We want an outfit selfie. We want to see it in real life, situated in real life, rather than very posed aesthetic shoots. I just don’t really do stuff like that anymore because that’s not what I enjoy watching. It’s not what I enjoy doing. For someone who does what I do, I’m like, can you not take my picture? I hate having my picture taken. Maureen: That’s so funny. I would never have guessed. Anna: Yeah, it’s really not for me. I’m like, right, we’re done. I always make it the quickest thing ever. Maureen: That makes me feel better. I hate having my picture taken. Anna: Do people like having their picture taken? Maybe some people. Maureen: I think a select number of people who have been professionally trained to do it well. Anna: True. Yeah, true. And that is not me. And that’s okay. But it is interesting that it feels like there’s been a shift in the way it’s been shot and packaged, and also in the way that we live our lives in style as well. I think we’re moving away from that polishedness, both in the way the reader consumes it and the way people create content. Maureen: I think I’ve made it extremely clear I do follow you and I’m aware of what you do, but I wasn’t expecting my takeaway from this call to be so clearly continuing to work on melding my personal style with the practicality of my life. I still think I need to work on that. Being in California, I live a very active lifestyle. I’m outside a lot, we’re going on walks. How can I maybe elevate that part of my style a little bit more or mix things a little bit more? I think that’ll be a good direction. Anna: We need the post of that. We need a follow-up. We need to see it. Maureen: Yeah, I should do that. I have to style it first. But giving ourselves permission to care about aesthetics without them preventing us from living the life we want to live is powerful. And also just feeling comfortable in every environment that you’re in as well. Anna: I think when I first became a mom, I was so focused on blending in. All the moms were doing chunky trainers, so I was like, I need some chunky trainers. I went down a slightly sportier path because I thought that’s what new moms do and that’s what I need to be doing. It’s about finding a way of still being you in those environments that you find yourself in often, without feeling the need to adhere to everybody else. You do want to feel comfortable, but it’s like how do you work out your style code for that environment rather than feeling like you need to fit in or blend in? None of my friends are super fashion-y, so I never want to go around my friend’s house in something they’re going to be like, oh, you’re tying a silk scarf around your waist. They’d be like, what are you doing? But is there a way I could maybe tie it around my neck and it would feel more me but still comfortable? It’s finding ways to be in environments where you feel comfortable and like you’re expressing yourself. Maureen: I’m smiling because this is the reason I started the show and my blog. My ever-present desire to do what everyone else is doing and trying to fight against that, understanding there’s a very social, biological reason we want to dress like other people, but also acknowledging there are limits to that and we can feel suffocated or disconnected from ourselves when we go too far down that rabbit hole. It’s nice to hear that you struggle with that sometimes too. Anna: I think everyone does, especially when you go through a big life change or you move or have a career change. Something happens and you have to relearn yourself and relearn how your style fits into that. That happens to everybody multiple times in their lives. It’s not like once you’ve figured it out, you never have to figure it out again. That’s not the case. But it does feel good when it clicks into place. When you start a new job and think, this is the kind of outfit I want to wear to this job. Or when I’m at the park and I’ve got my new rain boots on and I’m layered up with my Uniqlo Pufftech jacket actually keeping me warm, I’m like, oh, I feel good right now. Maureen: I have a question about the Pufftech. I’ve always wondered about this. When you get to your destination, if you’re indoors, do you take the puff off and put it in your bag? Anna: Yeah, and it’s a real conversation piece. You take it off and people go, oh, is that from Uniqlo? It is. It is from Uniqlo. I wore it to London the other day and I actually ended up getting quite hot. It comes with a little bag, but I hadn’t brought the bag with me. It’s so small, I literally just rolled it in my hands into a ball and put it in my bag. I think I might even have put it in my pocket. Maureen: The reason I ask is where I live, that is the outerwear because it’s warmer here. To me, that’s not my outerwear of choice. I would think of it more as innerwear. I was just curious what your take on that was. Anna: I would personally whip it off. My husband would rock it and look great, that’s totally his vibe. I would personally take it off. But it is quite funny when you take it off. You’re just like an onion shedding your layers. You’ve got so many layers on. Maureen: I could have used that back in college when I had this paper-thin black trench coat that I wore for an hour bus ride and then a 15-minute walk to a job interview. I’m freezing cold and I’m like, cutting us to Puffetech. Anna: I think it’s something we have to learn. My mom is now so happy that I’m wearing practical clothes because for years she was like, you’re cold. You’re cold. And I’d say, no, I’m not cold. I was freezing. Now I finally have some thick layers in my wardrobe. Maureen: Well, I’m happy to hear that. We can grow in all sorts of different ways. I’ll just finish up with this. We all turn to you for advice, but what advice would you give to someone who is trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them? Anna: I feel like I’m going to be a broken record and repeat myself because this has been a common topic of everything we’ve spoken about today. We all sometimes need to search for inspiration. Everyone, even the top stylists in the world, are finding inspiration in different places from different platforms. But when you’re looking for it, try to find inspiration that naturally fits somewhere within your lifestyle. For me, I’m looking for work-from-home outfits. I’m looking for more practical outfits for pickup, drop-off, those casual errand moments. I’m not looking at party wear. I’m not looking at super chic London style. I go to London maybe once a week or once every two weeks. It’s not something happening on repeat for me. So trying to search out inspiration that feels realistic for you is a really good starting point. Otherwise you’re going to end up with a mood board that doesn’t align with your lifestyle at all. Or maybe you do find things that don’t align with your lifestyle, but you’re looking at the shapes and the colors and different elements rather than thinking you need to recreate that outfit piece by piece. That’s been a big game changer for me. Substack has been a really good place for that because it’s full of real women showing their real outfits that actually work on a daily basis. I save them all in my Indyx collections folder and if I’m ever feeling dry, I’ll have a look through and see how someone’s put that jumper with those jeans and that jacket and think, I’ve got similar pieces that can work in that way. That has been such a game changer because I’m putting outfits on and they work, rather than trying to dress up. I’m actually repeating one of my most-read Substacks, which is why do we keep buying clothes for lives that we don’t have? Maureen: That’s a good post. I’ll link that. Absolutely, if someone somehow missed that one. Anna: Thank you. Yeah, that’s a good one. Maureen: Thanks, Anna. I have a job to do. I’m going to update my Pinterest board. I’ve been working on it, but I’m probably going to call a couple of things out. It’s time. Realistic inspiration has been a real source of cracking my personal style and getting dressed every day in a way that feels relatively easy. Well, this was so fun, which I’m not even remotely surprised by. You’re such a delight. And for how successful you are, you always manage to be very yourself and fun and enjoyable. So thank you for chatting with me and sharing your wisdom and your experience. I just really enjoyed this. Anna: Thank you. That has made my day. Thank you. Maureen: There’s going to be links in there, but where can listeners find you? Anna: You can find me over on Substack at The Wardrobe Edit. I also share quite a lot of style stuff over on Instagram. I have about 16 years’ worth of YouTube archives. If you ever fancy knowing what I looked like at 20, you can go find me there. That’s over at The Anna Edit. I think that’s everything. Maureen: And some great vlogs. Anna: Very, very old vlogs out there if that’s your thing. Maureen: I’ll make sure that’s all linked in the show notes. Thank you so much, Anna! Outro Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton [https://open.substack.com/users/46564061-maureen-mclennon-welton?utm_source=mentions]. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton. In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style [https://open.substack.com/pub/maureenwelton], the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/intuitive-style/id1799629044] or Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3oHE3NU8ih9miX43YDwI8D], or share with someone who might enjoy it. Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays. Thanks Get full access to Intuitive Style at maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe [https://maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Episode 27. How to build a foundational wardrobe, with Irene Kim (김애린)

This week, I’m delighted to share this interview with stylist extraordinaire, Irene Kim (김애린) [https://substack.com/profile/129502704-irene-kim]! You’ve probably pinned an image of her to your Pinterest board and definitely read one of her incredible posts here on Substack. Enjoy this wide-ranging and personal conversation. We chat about everything from shopping pragmatically, to Korean body culture, to how Irene coaches her clients. Enjoy! Transcript Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is personal stylist, Canadian in Paris, and extremely generous cool girl, Irene Kim (김애린) [https://substack.com/profile/129502704-irene-kim]. Irene is an OG in the fashion Substack world with iconic reads starting back in 2023, such as the five questions she asks herself when shopping. Since then, she’s continued to share glimpses into her real life, including how she styles herself for events ranging from glamorous photo shoots at the Musée Rodin to school drop-off. Though through it all, she manages to stay real and aspirational. Irene, welcome to the show. Irene: Thanks so much for having me, Maureen. So lovely to be here and meet you. Maureen: Likewise. So looking through your archive, it’s very clear to me that you are an extremely creative dresser, fearlessly turning lace napkins into a miniskirt or hocking a brooch and a shoelace into a bolo tie, and even layering windbreakers under blazers, which is recent. I love that one. Trying imaginative combinations can be really daunting. Personally, I can feel fear looking silly or too crafty. How do you know when some creative combination that you have matches your taste level? Irene: Oh, that is such a tough question. Because the answer is really, it just feels right. You know, I’ll just know when that’s too much or that’s too slim or that’s too baggy or that’s too much color or the eye’s moving too many places. So if I had to really break it down—and I think I have done that in a Substack—what’s going through is like just the checklist. It’s like an automatic checklist going down. Yeah, that proportion doesn’t work there, or that’s a little too slim there, or like that’s too much nylon and not enough natural fabric. You know what I mean? It just keeps going and going. So it’s sort of, after all this time, has come a bit automatic to me what level is okay. And I actually want to say, because I’m not saying that what I find okay to me is okay—it should be okay for everyone—because there’s people out there whose style I admire that I’m just like, if I put that on, I would be like, this is way, way too much. But it’s so clearly their baseline and they’re so clearly rocking it that I’m like, all power to them. Obviously, their checkpoints are different than mine, right? Maureen: I think one of the things I heard in what you said or your answer is that it’s become automatic, but that doesn’t mean that it was always automatic—this idea of knowing what was your level of comfort or how far to go. Does that feel correct? Irene: Oh, gosh. Would that feel correct? Because I’m trying to bring myself back to when I was like in my teens and I did so much experimenting then. And no, I still think I had it then. I just have different materials now, you know? I think a lot of experimentation was at that time, and even now, is born out of creative drive, yes, but also necessity, right? Because I don’t know what’s going on with kids these days, but when I was younger, like, if I got a shirt from Gap, like that was like Christmas, you know? Like there was nothing fancy about what we were buying. So it was a lot of, you know, I went thrifting and I just put stuff together in all these different ways. And I’ve already lost track of your original question. Has it always been there or has it evolved? I guess it’s refined itself over time. It’s just different than when I was younger, I guess. Because I loved my outfits then too. Maureen: That makes sense because you were still getting dressed back then, presumably. So if we have a calibration of good enough to leave the house, you know what I mean? Irene: Yeah. Maureen: The thesis of this podcast is that we make better style decisions when we listen to our intuition. So what role does intuition play in your life or your personal style? Irene: Right. So I just feel like when I get dressed and I try to look like the people that I admire for their clear appearance, their clear aesthetic, their very clear look, I just never feel right. It just never feels right to me. And ultimately, I go back to kind of the basics that I always love to wear no matter what. And sometimes, you know, I look at some of my everyday outfits because I feel like your everyday outfits are kind of like—that’s the core. Like, you know, that’s who you are in a way. Sometimes I think, oh, you know what? What if I made my everyday outfits a little bit more directional and made it more like this designer or that designer? But that’s just not me. Like every time there is a little… I kind of lean back a little bit into prep, androgyny. That’s always going to have some sort of base in how I dress. So I just can’t move away from that. And there’s no point in trying. I’m always going to go back that way. Maureen: That’s amazing. And I totally get that. I think what I heard from that is we can’t force ourselves to have a personal style that’s different from what we want to wear on our bodies. We can have aesthetic preferences that we like in theory, but we can’t force those to actually work for our everyday life or what we choose to wear. Is that kind of right? Irene: Yeah, no, that’s exactly right and far more articulate than I said it. No, no, nothing like that. No, I mean, I get it. I’m trying to force myself to be this, like, you know—and I don’t mean it to sound so strong—but I was really intrigued by Simone Rocha and super inspired by sheer volume. There are definitely ways that I can still incorporate it, but I had this vision this summer of just totally transforming my style in this totally new direction and wearing more black. And then I go into stores and I try on a black bag with my outfit that I like the rest of, and I’m like, oh, it’s still not me, is it? So I get that, you know? Maureen: The thing is, though, the beauty about clothes is that you can wear that, right? Like per day, a week, whatever. Irene: It reminds me of actually when I started getting a bit more traction on social media and I was thinking like, oh, maybe I should start publishing things that are a bit more polished and produced because mine isn’t at all. And I just thought, you know, how long am I able to keep that up? And I realized I could keep that up for like a week tops. I could do like one polished, produced post and then I’d call it a day because it’s just not me, you know? And so for me to have to put in that mental effort, truly, to dress in a way that’s not comfortable to me day in and day out—apart from your occasional event or your fun dress-up thing—it’s just not going to happen. Maureen: Great analogy. I get it. As a fellow writer, the polished stuff is hard to achieve. One of your early posts about questions to ask yourself when considering making a new purchase, you ask, does the garment take you places in your imagination? So my question to you is, can you think of any garments that you’ve bought that take you somewhere in your imagination? Irene: Oh, I have so many. So many. However, do I wear those every day? No. But I have a lot, yeah, for sure. Just like you were talking about the Simone Rocha piece. Yeah. I love getting dressed. But if I’m going to buy it, I mean, that’s the part of the five questions I ask myself when shopping. There is a love component, of course, to everything. But then, of course, there’s the need component. And then there’s can I actually afford it? There’s like practicalities of actually shopping. So yeah, my whole closet isn’t filled with that. But certainly there’s some there. Maureen: Yeah. What about your purple skirt that’s kind of like—is it sheer? It’s like a lilac— Irene: Oh, the Cecilie Bahnsen skirt? Sure, yeah. Maureen: Yeah. Is it like a piece—I think it’s beautiful—that piece feels like one that would take me somewhere in my imagination. Does it do the same for you? Irene: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you were mentioning Simone—like Simone and Cecilie are very similar in terms of aesthetic, and I love that ethereal vibe. And even though this is how I rock out in the world every day, I can absolutely throw that on with this sweater and it’ll still work, right? And so that’s ways that I can bring that kind of beauty into my life. And there are, again, other people who are able to do that every day. I just can’t. Not practical for my lifestyle. Maureen: So when I think about that skirt, like I’m transported to like a woodland meadow with like dappled sunlight traveling through the treetops. Where does it take you? Irene: So basically my friend who is a photographer, she has photographed me for various things—family things, other things—and she knows like my favorite scene is like carelessly just running through golden fields. That is like freedom to me. I don’t know what it is. It’s just warm. It could even be fall. It could even be misty. But just bouncing through grass, just wide open—that’s like when I think of happiness, that’s what I think of. Maureen: Wow. You know, I can see that skirt doing well in a field. Irene: Right? I’m sure they’ve had plenty of Cecilie photo shoots in fields like that, like really moody fields. Maureen: Incredible. Maybe with some muck boots. Irene: Exactly, exactly. Maureen: We started to talk a little bit about how you decide what to buy and where, with cost and love and need, et cetera. Can you think of any recent purchases that you made, or even broader than that, a little bit more how you decide what not to buy or where? Irene: So I kind of categorize this into two groups just because I am a stylist and I work with like a really large range of people. So there’s people like me who have really mature closets, and I would have different guidelines for me than I would for somebody literally starting from scratch. To have such a high bar for somebody who has no clothes is like just too much extra pressure, I think, on a lot of people. So when people are like, oh, you should be buying secondhand or this costs too much or like no, you should only buy the best you can afford—like people just can’t take it. Like just get them dressed. Like really that’s what they need. Where somebody like me, the bar is really high because I really have everything I need, or most things I need anyway. So yeah, I mean right now it really is—there can’t be a single reason why I don’t want to wear it. Literally, if the thing falls a little funny, it’s just an automatic no. It has to really pass all these tests. Like I have to love the color, I have to love how it feels on my skin, I have to love the cut, I love how it looks on my body. It has to be the right price, et cetera, et cetera. So that’s a high bar for me. For a client that has no clothes in their closet, I’m not going to be like, okay, you cannot buy a single pair of pants until it’s perfect. Like that’s just not sensible. Maureen: That’s very healing for me to hear because last year I had to basically repurchase a lot of my clothes. Not even just last year, but like twice. Anyway, my body changed, and so I had to rebuy my clothes. And man, there is so much pressure in the fashion space—I personally felt like there was so much pressure to buy the right way, the perfect way. And I just needed clothes that I could wear to like… you just need clothes to feel good in. And I just remember feeling so frustrated by this narrative that there’s only one right way to shop. And I just appreciate the way you just delineated like, yes, for a certain subset of people it’s really important and good to have high standards. But if you are in the midst of what is arguably—if you have no clothes to wear—there’s probably something else going on in your life that is already hard. And so trying to put the pressure of doing it perfectly on top of that… yeah, I just appreciate you saying that because I could have heard it a year and a half ago. Irene: Well, I’m telling you now. I think it’s really hard because I really bite my tongue a lot of times when I read things on Substack or social media because people only have like one line to get their point across and to capture people’s attention. So obviously it lacks a lot of nuance. But yeah, I’ve done this for like 15 years and I work with just normal people, right? So I know the huge chasm of life experience. There’s a big spread of what’s going on in people’s lives. I read something the other day and somebody wrote like, who’s buying Aritzia coats when you can buy them on Poshmark for this and this? And I was like, totally respectfully, I get your point, but there’s people who don’t have time to shop, people who don’t know that secondhand is an option, people who know it’s an option but don’t know where to look. There’s people who don’t fit into Aritzia. There’s like a million people who don’t fit into what is on its face a very reasonable thing to say. But underneath it all, it’s quite nuanced. Maureen: Yeah. It can be well-intentioned, but I think sometimes we need to take those things with a grain of salt. Irene: Yeah, for sure. Maureen: You had mentioned when you’re thinking about a new item, if it falls a little bit strangely, that would be a reason that you’re like, okay, there’s no reason I need to buy this. But what about like body awareness or how things fit or the way that different textures lay, things like that? How does the feeling of clothing, rather than necessarily what you see in the mirror, how does the feeling impact what you decide to buy or wear? Irene: A hundred percent now. I mean, I would have let that go 10 years ago. Frankly, I would have let that go like three years ago—no, five. But I can’t take it anymore. If it’s itchy or like there’s a certain type of polyester that just makes my skin crawl, I can’t wear it. I don’t want to. And I can afford to be that picky at this stage, right? Again, if you’re somebody who doesn’t have any clothes in their closet, you might be less picky. But even at that stage and price point, I probably could find you something that feels better on your body than something that you really hate. So yeah. Maureen: And what changed for you going from being willing to put up with it to not? Irene: What changed for me? Let me think. This was like maybe five years ago. Most of the stuff I’m referring to is like, you know, Zara, fast fashion stuff. I didn’t buy a ton of it to begin with, but I just started getting pickier, I guess. And I think when that happens for people, it changes. My client base tends to start at 35. Occasionally I’ll get kids with their parents—teenagers or 20-year-olds—but mostly it’s 35. And in your 20s, that’s when you’re experimenting with stuff. So the top priority isn’t, oh, it feels great. You want the look, you want the style. But I think it’s pretty standard across the board that as you get a bit older, these things start to matter more. No big life change other than that. Maureen: Yeah. I think I started a little young on that. I’ve always been hypersensitive to how clothing feels on my body. And I’ve always questioned like, how do people put up with this? Like I don’t get it. I’m 30 now. I’ve never had the threshold to be able to wear something uncomfortable, but that’s just me. Irene: Do you mean uncomfortable like fabric or uncomfortable like sitting on your body? Maureen: Mostly fabric, because that’s different. Like, okay, yeah, okay. I’m a highly sensitive person. It is my burden to bear, but I get it. What is exciting you in fashion right now or in style? Irene: Oh. You know, it’s funny. I think I may have written that nothing has really excited me in a while. I’m not even old—I’m only 45—but I’ve been around enough to see a lot. I’ve seen like three-ish good decades of fashion and cycles. And so right now, nothing feels super new to me. But that doesn’t mean it’s not exciting. It’s just still fun to get dressed. Irene: Right now, I cannot keep up with the external stimulation and new input because I’m in a new city. It’s like too much. Like I can’t handle it—in a good way. So I’m still trying to process the fact that, okay, I’ve moved to Paris. There’s just so much for me to process and understand. And so that’s what’s exciting me. Maureen: Let’s talk about that. When you go to bed at night, what are you looking forward to in the morning of being able to do in Paris that you weren’t able to do in Canada? Irene: Okay, so not to disappoint, because my friend called me and was like, “Oh my God, your kids get home at five and that still leaves some time for you guys to do some sightseeing.” I’m like, listen, when my kids get home… I mean, no, I’m still living a normal life. I still have a husband and kids who go to school. So I’m still working through the day, trying to get a workout in, and the kids come home and then I’m doing homework and then I’m preparing dinner. So it’s still very much—for anybody who has FOMO—I’m just in a different location. But obviously there is a lot more access to fashion. The people dress differently here. I’m constantly staring at what people are wearing, how people are wearing it, people’s relationship to fashion. Brands that I can’t see at home, I’m trying to discover them here. The huge vintage ecosystem that they have—I can’t stop. Every single day I try to find something new. I’ve only been here since the start of the school year, so that’s like three-ish months. I haven’t even nicked the surface. Maureen: Well, that already just sounds exciting. Just having a whole new playing field to engage with, even if it’s only in slivers of the day. What advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them? Irene: So I usually start people off with a foundational wardrobe, and those are like the core pieces that you reach for every day that you feel good in and you know you can make an outfit with. Because I find a lot of people get all of these incredible pieces or these pieces that they love, but it makes no sense when you try to put it together. And what those pieces are—they’re always going to be, unless you really love dresses—like four or five pants, right? There’s always going to be like 12 to 20 tops. But the shape of those, the color of those, the style of those—that’s where your intuitive style comes in. Again, I’m generalizing because not everyone wears jeans, but let’s say most people wear jeans. Some people will reach for a skinny straight jean all the time. That will be the backbone of the outfit. That will never be me. You will not see a skinny straight jean in my wardrobe. I will always have some sort of barrel pant shape in my wardrobe that I would reach for before that. So that becomes my foundational bottom because I feel good in it. That feels comfortable to me. So when you’re building your foundational wardrobe, when I’m building it with somebody, I really make sure I take a temperature check of how they feel about this piece. Because I’m not going to say, okay, ideally you have bottoms that are sort of different shapes, some are jeans, some are pants, some are this—but I’m not going to dictate what they are without substantial input from you. If you tell me something that I feel like is not going to be very practical or versatile or functional, I will tell you. But generally speaking, people know what’s going on. So I trust them to tell me. So yeah, start with the foundation. Maureen: I love your post on that, by the way. I unlocked your membership for it. Irene: Oh, thank you. Maureen: And then I know you have an idea of the additional layer on top of that. Can you talk about that really quickly? Irene: It’s like the—oh, I think you have a post on adding in statement pieces. Maureen: Yes. Irene: So once you have your foundation, right? And the foundation—I think I put in there that it was like 40-ish pieces. It could be 20. It could be 60. Nobody’s limiting you. But my point there was that I have those Cecilie Bahnsen skirts and the yellow ruffled sleeveless sash top and all these crazy things. And I think what we were talking about before with the five questions—do I love them? Does it take me places? Do I need it? Less so for statement pieces. Can I afford it? Is it a reasonable purchase? Right? So sometimes I think—I always go back to the Totême coat example—I might love it, I might need it, I could technically afford it, but does it make sense for me to buy it? Does it make sense for me to buy a $3,000 coat when I can get something kind of similar for $400? For me, the answer would be no. For some other people, the answer would be yes. That’s very much a personal call. Maureen: Yeah, totally. So those questions that you have about needing, loving, wanting—are those more geared toward those statement pieces? And then the questions that you have for the foundations are a little bit different? Or am I misunderstanding? Irene: No, it’s totally the same. I think I actually wrote in the “love” bucket—I subdivided it to people like me who really, really need to keep the bar high. Whereas people who are building a wardrobe, I said, don’t kill yourself if you don’t love a basic gray sweater. Just make sure there’s not something wrong with it in the sense that you don’t like how it feels on your body or you don’t like how it falls. You don’t have to love a basic gray sweater. It is a basic piece. So yeah, but the rest of it applies. Do you need it? Is it functional for your lifestyle? Can you afford it? Et cetera, et cetera. Maureen: Have you ever had a moment where what you wore transformed how you felt in your body, either positively or negatively? And what did that teach you? Irene: Well, there’s a few positive things, I guess. I remember putting on a sari once, and I felt like—so you know how a sari has that blouse or chemise? It’s super tight and it forces your shoulders back like this. And I was like, oh my God, I don’t think I’ve ever walked with such good posture in my life. And it just made me realize we’re all walking like this everywhere. And I remember once, a year after I gave birth to my second son, I was in a bikini in Barbados. I had like the softest belly ever still because I was eating chips, ice cream, and wine every single night a year after pregnancy. And I remember feeling really liberated that I posted this picture online. I wasn’t—I just didn’t care. I made this baby and this feels great. So that was nice. That was nice. That didn’t last forever, for sure. Maureen: What part didn’t last? Irene: *Feeling good in a bikini. I have never, ever been able to wear one in public. It is so painful for me to do it. Maureen: I don’t like it either. I never understand when folks say to younger people, “Just wear the bikini.” And I’m like, well, okay. It just takes me out of the moment. It doesn’t make me feel present. It makes me feel in my head. And I’m like, why do I have to wear the bikini? Irene: You know, I’m from Korea where when you go to the beach, literally everyone is covered, covered fully in protective gear. I think part of it is modesty. And of course, if you go away somewhere like Malaysia, women are fully covered in the water. But here in France and Europe, it always amazes me. You could be 90 years old and completely—your skin is hanging everywhere. You could be a 50-year-old mom in full menopause bloat and they’re all wearing bikinis. Nobody is thinking twice about it. So it’s got to be something in how they were raised to feel like that is okay and acceptable as it is. For some of us, it’s extremely hard to do it. Maureen: Let’s talk about that a little bit more. What is your context that you grew up in, and how did that influence the way that you view what is normal or okay for dressing? Irene: So I grew up with parents—my mother in particular—she loved fashion. She was extremely stylish. She grew up in Korea in the 60s and 70s and she was an airline stewardess for Korean Airlines. So back then that was quite a glamorous job. She could go to Paris, she could go to Europe, which back then—South Korea was quite a poor country—that was quite a luxury. So that definitely influenced what I saw growing up in my household. The flip side of that is that Koreans are very hard. I’m sure everybody’s gone down that TikTok rabbit hole—there’s a lot of plastic surgery, people are extremely thin naturally. So I also grew up being told, not necessarily by family, but even friends or relatives or just random strangers, like, “Oh, you’re just too big.” All the time. So I think by the time I was in my teens and early twenties, I hated going back to Korea because I knew that was coming. So I think that did take quite a toll on my self-esteem, for sure, and how I viewed my body. Maureen: Yeah, it sounds like a culture of policing other people’s appearance, where other people’s appearance is something that is okay to comment on. Irene: Oh, it’s 100% okay to comment on. There’s no question about it. I’m literally talking about I would answer the door and some of my aunt’s friends or the housekeeper would just be like, “Oh, you know, it’s time for your eyelid surgery.” Or, “If you lost 20 pounds, you could go for Miss Korea.” It was full on. I’m not exaggerating. And my family’s not even bad because they did not push me to get surgery. My immediate family never even uttered the word. But for everyone around me, it’s quite normal. Some parents—I have friends whose parents basically send their kids to Korea and say, “If you don’t get this, you can’t come home.” It is so ingrained in our mentality and in our culture. Maureen: It sounds really hard. Irene: When I hear myself say it to you, who’s not in the culture, I’m like, oh my God, that actually sounds crazy. But yeah, I guess I’ve normalized it internally. Maureen: Every culture has their version of crazy. And what’s always hard about that kind of stuff is it’s these rules around what social connection can and should look like. The reason that it’s painful is that these rules of conduct prevent connection. You have to do this thing in order to come back and be in relationship with us. That’s what makes it so hard. It’s not just about what it means for us physically, but how it impacts every aspect of our position in society and in our families. Irene: And to be fair, to your point, a lot of it is people just want to be beautiful. And they place a lot of value on looks. But my theory is that there’s such a push because of how important marriage is—or was—in Korea. I mean, we now have the lowest birth rate in the world because nobody wants to put up with that BS anymore. But I think it was so concentrated in my late teens to my mid-twenties because those were the prime years. Those were the prime years where I would find a man and make sure I was taken care of. They were sort of taking care of me to make sure that I was doing the right things for myself so I would get married. And literally, as soon as I got engaged, nobody talks to me about it anymore. Starting at like 28—nobody cares. You’re getting married. We’ve done our job. That’s it. Maureen: Yeah. Wow. That’s crazy. Does seeing it that way make it more or less painful? Irene: That’s my theory anyway. Maureen: I mean, I believe you. Does seeing it that way make it more or less painful? Irene: Yeah. I mean, I understand because I think about our history as a country and our society and how important getting married is to establishing social standing, social credit, whatever. So I can see why that would be so pushed by so many parents and families of their young girls. So yeah. Maureen: It sounds hard though. And also, you know, it is interesting what you’re saying about how the standards aren’t universal. Like I imagine that a size 8 or 10 in Korea is viewed differently than a size 8 or 10 in America. There’s no universal correct size. And I think that always helps me personally to be like, oh, this is all subjective anyway. Irene: I mean, you could say that, except they kind of do have a standard. Everyone sort of whispers what the correct goal weight is. And the facts were that—let’s say 2002 is when I first remember it, though it could have continued later—but in 2002, I could not find anything larger than a size six in stores. It was impossible. So at that time, I think I was about a size eight or 10. I was in flea markets buying stretchy jeans and things like that. I’m sure the size ranges have increased since then, but back then, if you were outside of that, you were out of the norm enough that they didn’t cater to you in stores. Maureen: Yeah. All I meant is the cutoff point here in the States would be—depending on the brand—what we call an extra large, a 12 or a 14, versus a six. The cutoff point is different. I’m not saying either one is okay or better, but mostly that the inherent subjectivity of where that cutoff is reminds me that it’s all BS. That doesn’t determine what size people’s bodies actually are. It’s just this idea of what they could or should be, and that’s subjective. Irene: Yeah. This is way more emotional energy than I thought I would be spending in this interview because it’s bringing up all these memories. In a good way. Maureen: In a great way. We don’t have to go there. It’s all good. Irene: No, no, no. I am totally open to chatting about this stuff. Totally open to it. Maureen: I have one last question, and I think this one should be more fun. How would you define your current relationship to clothes and style? What kind of phase are you in? Irene: Hmm. I would say for the last two years I was sort of in this non-experimental phase. I didn’t really want to buy anything. I didn’t want to add anything. I wasn’t looking to change my style. And now that I’m here, there’s so much new inspiration that I can’t help it. But at the same time, I still think I’m in that phase where I’m kind of like, I’m making the changes I need to make because I can’t wear jogging pants here. I generally need to be a little bit more polished here than I am back at home. But other than that, I’m still in the “I have enough clothes” mindset. I don’t need to be Black Friday shopping for myself. Shopping for clients, yes. For myself, no. And sometimes I still have FOMO. I was looking at the Net-A-Porter sale and thinking, oh God, that is just so chic. And then I’m like, do I really need that? I know I’m fine. And I keep coming back to that. When I see a really cool influencer wearing something, I’m like, oh, I wish I had that aesthetic. And then I’m like, nah. I’m good. I’m good. So that’s where I’m at. I’m just happy where I am. Maureen: Do you get to live vicariously through your clients? Irene: Yeah. I think there’s something interesting—you know how people say you can tell somebody’s job at fashion week by how they’re dressed? A lot of the people who aren’t influencers, like buyers or editors, they’re just dressed normally, but very chic. Because we spend all day in fashion—looking at fashion, buying fashion—that sometimes we just don’t have the brain power to style ourselves in some elaborate way. We just want to dress in a way that feels good and comfortable. Maureen: I get that. Well, thank you, Irene. This was amazing. Where can listeners find you? Irene: You can find me on Substack at In Moda Veritas [https://open.substack.com/pub/irenekim] and on Instagram at irene_KF [https://www.instagram.com/irene_kf?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==]. Maureen: Fantastic. I’ll make sure those are linked in the show notes. Thank you so much. Irene: Thanks so much, Maureen. I had such a great time. Maureen: I had a great time getting to know you. Irene: Thank you. Outro Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton [https://open.substack.com/users/46564061-maureen-mclennon-welton?utm_source=mentions]. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton. In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style [https://open.substack.com/pub/maureenwelton], the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/intuitive-style/id1799629044] or Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3oHE3NU8ih9miX43YDwI8D], or share with someone who might enjoy it. Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays. Thanks Get full access to Intuitive Style at maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe [https://maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Episode 26. What working in fashion teaches you, with Evonne Sturm

This week, I’m delighted to share this interview with Evonne Sturm [https://substack.com/profile/3393422-evonne-sturm]! She’s a fashion-industry veteran who really caught my eye through her beautiful weaving of industry knowledge with her personal narrative. We chat all about how working in fashion has taught her about clothing, how she finds her signature eyewear, and more! Make sure to subscribe so you’re notified when upcoming episodes with Irene Kim (김애린) [https://substack.com/profile/129502704-irene-kim], and Anna Newton [https://substack.com/profile/8886864-anna-newton] drop! Can’t wait. Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is Evonne Sturm [https://substack.com/profile/3393422-evonne-sturm], fashion industry veteran. And her Substack, Musings of a Merchandiser [https://open.substack.com/pub/musingsofamerchandiser], is a fun glimpse into the fashion machine, where she integrates personal narrative into deep dives on industry trends, both consumer-led and brand-led. Evonne, welcome to the show. Evonne: Thanks for having me, Maureen. I’m really excited to be here. Maureen: I’m excited to talk. You know, whenever I have a guest that’s in industry—that’s not my experience whatsoever—I really like to start out talking about how working in fashion has impacted your personal style and the way you dress. Understanding, of course, that you don’t necessarily have a frame of reference for what it might be like otherwise. But I’m curious if you can think of any memorable moments where working in fashion really impacted your taste or the way that you were dressing. Evonne: Sure, it’s actually a great question to start. So I would say working in fashion inevitably changes just how you see clothing in general. You really start to notice construction before color, fabrication before fit. And over time, I’ve really kind of stopped chasing trends and started just really chasing a feeling. I know silhouettes that make me feel really pulled together and which ones make me feel like I’m playing dress up. I would say probably the most memorable moment happened pretty early in my career back at Macy’s—not to age myself, but over 15 years ago—when I got a first real look kind of behind the curtain. How every decision from fabric quality to button to style to hem finish really came with a cost implication and a trade-off. It’s incredibly mind-blowing when you realize how much goes into the make of a single garment. And then once you’ve seen that, you cannot unsee it, especially as a merchandiser. I think about it literally 24 hours a day, whether I’m at work or whether I’m shopping personally. Maureen: Yeah. So, I mean, as a recovering perfectionist, I see so much detail in every purchase that I make. You know, I was just looking at some shirts and I was like, some of these buttons are white on navy. And then the plum version has plum-colored buttons and I much prefer that. Like, how do you handle that level of detail that you must see when you’re shopping? Does it ever get in the way or do you feel like it’s an asset? Evonne: It’s both an asset and it always gets in the way. Yeah, like I said, it’s just inevitable. I’m a curious person by nature too, and I just can never turn it off. And sometimes I have to realize, okay, you came out not for work, you came out for yourself. So once I’m able to switch that mindset off—and it almost rarely happens—sometimes it comes back full force when I look at the price tag on the garment. Like, really? And then I look at where the garment’s made. I’m like, really? It just kind of constantly snowballs. Maureen: I want to know a little bit more about what you mean. So when you see the price tag, does that raise your standards, lower your standards? Evonne: That’s a really interesting question. It honestly just kind of depends on the overall brand itself and your perceived value of it, and then kind of how it feels when you’re touching it, when you’re putting it on your body. So it really depends. It’s a funny thing I think about, especially when I shop luxury items, because knowing how much the markup is on those things will blow your mind. But then you’ve got to take into consideration the craftsmanship and where it’s made. If you’re looking at a luxury handbag, the type of leather—all of those details come into play constantly. Maureen: Yeah, yeah. What about working at—have you ever worked in office? Does the experience of dressing for a fashion office culture change how you might dress? Evonne: Yes and no. I mean, I’ve been going into an office since the dawn of time, since the start of my career. And it definitely has fluctuated—how much I’m in office versus where we’ve all netted out after COVID. But early on in my career, the office etiquette or style has definitely evolved. Back when I worked at Macy’s, we were not allowed to wear denim—only on Fridays. So, you know, you constantly had to be polished and presentable and never relaxed or in kind of almost like your weekend apparel. But since then, I mean, even just thinking about that over time, it seems wild that you were not allowed to wear jeans to the office other than Fridays. Now I think I wear jeans probably constantly. But there’s a way to dress them up and evolve them. So whether you’re putting them with a nice pair of heels or a nice pair of loafers, or you’re completely disregarding the jean in general and wearing a nice pair of pleated trousers—fashion has definitely evolved in the workplace. And I think there are so many brands now that take a new spin on it versus wearing the mundane, tried-and-true suit. Maureen: Yeah, I totally forgot that when I first started working it was the same—like no jeans, or if you could wear jeans they had to be black. It was like a whole thing. And now it’s not even remotely on my mind. That’s so funny. Cool. Evonne: Yeah. And even as I think—MACs at Bloomingdale’s back in the day, and I don’t know if this is still the case—but you always had to wear black on a market appointment if you were going anywhere. They almost had a set signature uniform. I’d be curious if any Bloomingdale’s people are out there in the universe—I’d love to know if the dress code has evolved or not. Maureen: Yeah. Like a Sephora employee. Evonne: Totally. Totally. Totally. Maureen: One of the fun things about your newsletter in particular is the way you weave your personal narrative in with your industry expertise. For example, you had a really nice piece about eyewear—which of course you’re wearing a fabulous pair today—which you have a personal connection to beyond the trends. So I’d love to hear more about your personal connection to eyewear and how this became your signature. Evonne: Totally. I have worn glasses since the third grade, so they’ve been part of me for a very, very, very long time. And my eyesight, believe it or not, has only gotten worse over time, which has, I think, really deepened my love for eyewear dramatically. It’s the one accessory that I truly need. And maybe that’s why I care about it so much. It wasn’t until after college, when I started working and spending most of my day at a computer, that I thought about eyewear differently. It’s not just a necessity, but it’s really, as you said, a form of self-expression. Over time, my glasses definitely evolved into what I call my visual signature. I think of them the same way somebody would think of their favorite lipstick or their favorite jacket. They really anchor my look and they frame not only how I see the world—both literally and figuratively. Evonne: I would say probably the biggest influence when it comes to eyewear is my deep, deep, deep love for Iris Apfel and her oversized signature frames. As they say, the bigger the frame, the closer to God, maybe. But with my small features, I really love the playfulness of an exaggerated shape. Evonne: There was a place in New York that I would go to on the regular for my glasses. It’s where these are from—it’s from a brand called SEE Eyewear. I would come in every year or two because I needed a new prescription since my eyes got worse. The manager noticed that. We began to have a rapport, and I’d come in and he’d tell his sales associates, “Do not give her anything that isn’t oversized. She will just not touch it.” So they always knew to put aside the big, big frames for me because that’s always what I ended up buying. And I really think that because I’m short in size, the oversized frames not only amplify my voice, but they also help amplify my personality on a whole other level. Maureen: That’s really cool. I love that perspective on it because there are so many different ways that we can think about our body and proportion. Sometimes there can be this idea that you want to match your proportions. But I love the idea of playing with—well, one, there’s no right or wrong answer, right? It’s all about personal preference. But I love the intentionality of “big because I’m small.” I think that’s really fun. And yeah, Iris is such an icon. What a legend. R.I.P. And then when you are picking—so you know you want a bigger pair—how do you know when a pair is the right one for you? Evonne: I don’t know. There’s just something that clicks. I can’t describe it. It’s like when you put on a pair of jeans and you’re like, oh man, everything about them fits me like a glove. It’s the same thing with eyewear. I think in the past I used to gravitate toward bold color and maybe a little bit of a pattern. And I’ve tried to veer away from that more recently. I’ve really tried to play up my hair color and accentuate my eye color. I used to have a pair of really dark blue frames and I loved them, but they were such a contrast to my pale skin that it was actually too much. The over-exaggerated frame against my pale skin was not a good combo. So now I find myself gravitating toward rich browns and tortoiseshell because I think it helps frame my face even better with the coloring of my skin tone and my eyes. Maureen: Yeah. No, I love that. I think that’s really fun. And also, you know, I always like to balance this idea of the analytical side with the intuitive side. Not that I really think they’re opposites, but I do think the word intentionality really speaks to the fact that we can have an idea of what we want going in and we can make an intentional choice to be like, “Yeah, the blue—I had enough experience with the blue and that particular shape on me to know that that doesn’t feel right anymore.” It’s like you’re using experience to build your intuition versus just making an impulsive decision. It’s something that you have data on and you’re like, “Oh, well, that worked for a while,” or “I tried it out and now I want to do something different.” And that’s what helps us build that intuition—creating that data, making that model for ourselves about what does and doesn’t feel good, I think. Evonne: Absolutely. And even to circle back to the first point about seeing behind the curtain and knowing how much things cost—I think one push and pull I definitely have with eyewear is the cost of it. I constantly have to remind myself that the cost per wear—even if the frame is expensive, and then I’ve got my lenses because I’m blind, which are even more expensive, and I like the bigger frame—so it’s a mashup of making sure the frame can hold the denseness of the lens, which inevitably causes the overall package to be more expensive. It’s this push and pull. I’m like, “Oh, I really like the frame. It looks so good on my face,” but then the price tag—oh. However, I constantly have to remind myself that the cost per wear will literally pay for itself because I put them on the minute I get up in the morning to look at my phone, and I take them off literally the minute before I wash my face and go to bed. So if you think about the amount of hours in the day that I spend wearing them—who cares, really? I have to take off the sticker shock and settle in with the fact that I’m going to wear them 24/7, so it doesn’t matter. Maureen: Well, this is totally anecdotal, but I have this feeling that when I was younger, glasses weren’t cool. But now glasses come in and out of being stylish just in general. Do you feel that that’s true? Have you experienced that? Evonne: Absolutely. In the third grade, when I found out I had to get glasses, I bawled my eyes out. I was so deeply upset because I was afraid I was going to get made fun of and people were going to call me four eyes. The amount of nicknames that came up in my head—people judging me for having to wear glasses. Because to your point, so many people now wear them, right? Back then it was almost taboo. You need them because you can’t do your work or you can’t see correctly—you’re impaired, literally. So it was constantly something I thought about growing up. But now, I don’t know—it’s part of my style. I’ve just fully leaned into it. And I love now that there’s so much variety in the market. When I was younger, we went to the same eyeglass place. Because I was a kid and needed glasses, the amount of options was so limiting. I had maybe one or two choices to pick from, which I wasn’t excited about because the options were so narrow. That fed into the whole narrative of having to wear glasses. But now the options are endless—which is also a good thing and a bad thing, right? Because you have so much choice. But that’s what really makes it fun. You can get them from anywhere. Maureen: You set up the perfect segue for the next question, which is how you decide what to buy or where—and how do you decide what not to buy or where? And this question was inherently more interesting for you anyway as a merchandiser. As we’ve talked about, you have all this information. But yeah, with all the options out there for what to buy and where, how do you decide? I personally find it overwhelming. Evonne: It is overwhelming. You’re not alone. It’s even overwhelming for myself. But when I think about what I’m deciding to buy, it’s kind of like my earlier thought about glasses and cost per wear. It’s really about longevity and how many ways I can truly wear something. That’s what’s going to earn its keep in my closet. It’s not really about minimalism, but more about mindfulness in general. The amount of times I spend hemming and hawing and having 80 tabs open before I decide whether I want to pull the trigger on something—it literally drives my husband insane. But I like to think of it as part of my Virgo-minded thought process. I’m not chasing quantity or even novelty. I’m really chasing that mix of comfort, quality, and clarity. And then on the opposite side—what I decide not to buy—I’m very petite in frame. So the biggest driver for me is ensuring that the item really isn’t wearing me nine times out of ten. Maureen: Yeah. Okay, well, using that analytical and feeling brain, how do you distinguish that? I can speak to this—I struggle with this. Not because I’m petite, but going back to the eyeglasses thing. The other day I was like, “Oh, I think it would be really cool to try out wearing some glasses. I’d like to add more structure to my look. I don’t love earrings. I just want to try something different.” So I tried on a bunch of glasses and I was like, “I think these are all wearing me.” So how do you know when something is wearing you versus when you are standing out? Especially when we think about oversized glasses—how do you know it feels right versus distracting? Evonne: From a literal sense, if the fabric feels overwhelming on me, I’m literally drowning in it. That’s probably the biggest thing for me. A lot of pants are way too long. I also have a smaller chest. So I’m constantly looking at brands that show up well and can play to my strengths of being petite. One of the brands that does this really well—although she’s on the pricier side—is Ulla Johnson. Her smaller size frame, I literally feel like, was made for me. It plays with proportion, it plays with shape, and I really gravitate toward things that accentuate that for me so the fabric first and foremost isn’t wearing me. Even though I love oversized glasses and I love a puff sleeve and I play with exaggeration constantly in my wardrobe, I also have to make sure there’s balance. There could be a puff sleeve, but I’m wearing fitted trousers so that I’m not being swallowed whole by the garment. So it’s really about playing with proportion. Maureen: Yeah, I think I’m curious what you think about this. Sometimes I think about it as, do you see me or do you see the clothes? Do you feel like there’s any aspect of that for you or a difference? Evonne: I don’t really think so. I’ve always been someone who expresses myself in style. I’ve always had a knack for fashion—way, way, way before I decided to make a career of it. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been shopping with a girlfriend and they’re like, “Oh, I could never wear that. You could pull it off.” And I’m like, “But you can wear it. You just have to hold your head a little higher.” You’ve got to have the confidence to feel like you can. Literally anyone, in my opinion, can wear anything as long as they hold their head high and have the confidence to wear it. I think anybody can wear anything. So I’ve never really been one to shy away from fashion, because if I feel confident and I feel good in it, it doesn’t really matter. I don’t really care what anyone else thinks. But I could be a very rare breed. That’s not normal for most people. Maureen: No, I don’t disagree. I think a lot of people feel that way. I was mostly thinking about preferences. For me personally, as much as I love really flamboyant fashion, I don’t want to be overshadowed by it. That’s my only hesitation. Evonne: Right. Maureen: It’s not necessarily a confidence thing, but I think sometimes it’s just a preference of how you want to show up in the world. For some people, leading with the fashion is the most fun possible thing. And I think we just have different ways of experiencing clothes. I’m the kind of person that if you’re wearing something amazing, I’m the one who starts the conversation with, “Oh my God, your outfit’s amazing.” I’m receptive to that. I think we’re just different little puzzle pieces in the conversation, in different roles. Evonne: Yeah, for sure. Maureen: What about body awareness? What I mean by this is how does clothing’s texture, fit—how does any of that impact whether or not you connect with a garment or want to wear it? Evonne: I think over the years there are definitely signature details that I gravitate toward. In silhouette—whether that’s a puff sleeve, whether that’s a ruffle, whether that’s a polka dot. Texture is a fun one. But again, it’s about finding potentially the right brand and the shapes that fit your mold, and then working those into the textures that work best for your body, if that makes sense. Maureen: Anything you steer away from because of how it feels? Evonne: Nothing that I would say I universally steer away from. I would say the thing I’m maybe most self-conscious about is that I have a smaller chest. So anything that gets too low— Maureen: As you’re sitting here in the most buttoned-up thing possible. Evonne: Exactly. This might be a personal detail, but I have a mole that sits pretty low on my neckline and chest. It’s usually my gauge. If something dips lower than that, I’m like, okay, this is too much. Because I’m small-chested, it does get hard when tops don’t fit the way I’d like. Sometimes I think, oh, I’d kill for a bigger chest so I could gravitate toward different silhouettes and play with my neckline more. But because I’m small-chested, I steer away from certain things because I don’t feel good in them. It’s not my best sense of self. If something drapes too much there, I don’t want to accentuate the fact that nothing is there. Maureen: Oh yeah, totally. I think we all have aesthetic preferences for our body. It doesn’t have to be about “flattering” or understanding every reason why something does or doesn’t work. Of course, every week I’m here trying to understand. But sometimes it’s just, “Oh, I just don’t like that.” Evonne: Yeah. It’s not worth it. There are certain things I’ve tried to push myself to like, and I just can’t like them. And I’m like, why do I care so much about liking this? This is the situation I’m in. I’m going to stop trying to force that. Maureen: I don’t really like wearing oversized tops. I prefer a fitted top and then a really wide pant. That’s my favorite silhouette. I think it’s fun. When I see someone else wearing something oversized on top, I’m like, oh, I’d love to try that. And then I remember—I’ve actually tried that a ton of times and I consistently don’t like it. So maybe we can stop trying that. Or maybe not right now. Evonne: Totally. Maureen: We can give ourselves that acceptance and grace. We don’t have to understand more. Evonne: I can’t tell you how many times I need to buy a dress for a special occasion and I get so attracted to an oversized shape because I love playing with proportions. It’s constantly something I pick up. Then I get to the fitting room and I have the same thought you just shared. “Why do I keep picking this shape?” I look like a lunch bag—like a paper bag. I’m completely lost in the fabric. This is not going to look good at a special event. I’m not going to feel confident or like my best self in this item. I know I have to pick either a more formal dress or something that accentuates my smaller proportions, because that’s where I’m going to look my best and not have the garment wearing me. But for whatever reason, even though we’ve talked about this so many times, I forget. Maureen: We all forget. And that’s OK. Especially when we’re doing so much stuff online, we’re constantly seeing examples of an oversized silhouette—just because we both said that specifically—in all the catalogs. And then you get that into your head as the best aesthetic. I’m only speaking for myself, right? I get that into my head as the best aesthetic. And then I have to reframe and remind myself, yes, I see that in the catalogs or I see that online, but that doesn’t immediately translate to what I feel best in. We have to do that kind of filter. Evonne: Totally. And when you are in person, it can be hard to tell sometimes, when you see something on the hanger, how oversized it’s going to be or what shape it’s going to take. That’s why shopping in person is the absolute best. A company hates to see my return coming because on the model—the five-nine model who wears a size two or four—it looks incredible on her. But on me, who’s not five-nine, I’m drowning in it. That’s one of my biggest frustrations with shopping online because I am not that person. Maureen: None of us are, right? Evonne: Exactly. And it almost always gets returned. That’s why I try to stick to brands where my fit is consistent. Like FRAME denim. I know no matter what, anytime I go in there, my size is my same size—no matter the fit, no matter the fabric. It’s consistency for me. And that’s what keeps me coming back. No matter how many times I walk into that store saying, “I’m not going to buy anything,” I always walk out with something because they know what they’re doing when it comes to fit and size. Maureen: That’s awesome. It’s so good to have those brands that just work. Evonne: It’s taken me years to find the brands that work best for me. And I’m constantly trying to find new ones because your style evolves, it changes, colors change, your fit can fluctuate. So you almost need to have a handful in your wheelhouse whenever you’re shopping. Maureen: Totally. What’s exciting you in fashion right now? Evonne: There’s definitely something. I love the resurgence of modern prep—what some people call preppy academia. And one of the brands I literally cannot get enough of is La Veste [https://lavestelaveste.com/]. They’re a Spanish brand. They really take this interpretation adventurously and spin the whole concept on its head. They borrow from preppiness—structure, polish, tradition—but then inject color and charm and a little chaos in ways where the result feels familiar but delightfully offbeat. They’re just having so much fun with it. I’m constantly amazed season after season how they top themselves again and again. They have stores in Europe but none in the U.S. They did a pop-up in SoHo last summer. I cannot recommend them enough, especially when it comes to mixing color. That’s maybe the other thing I’m most interested in right now—unexpected color combinations. Red with brown. Black with navy—shout out to Fanny Adams [https://substack.com/profile/11838403-fanny-adams] and Kelly Williams [https://substack.com/profile/3777058-kelly-williams] for that one. I never thought I’d dabble in black and navy, but they’ve spun it on its head for me. And La Veste plays with olive and chartreuse or hunter green in stripes and patterns where you’d think, “I would never put these together,” but the way they pair them makes you see things completely differently. The market feels so oversaturated right now. So many options. A lot of the tried-and-true brands sadly feel the same. So I love when brands lean into familiarity but take it to another level with detail or color that makes them truly unique and stand out from the crowd. Maureen: I’ll make sure to include a link in the show notes. Coming toward the end here—what advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them? Evonne: Pay attention to how the clothes make you feel, not how they look on anyone else. Reach for those pieces on repeat because they make you stand taller and instantly feel more like yourself. That’s the sweet spot. From there, look for patterns in what you already love. Textures. Colors that work on your skin tone or complement your eyes. That’s your personal brand story starting to take shape. And most importantly, give yourself permission to edit. If something served you 10 years ago but doesn’t now, get rid of it. It doesn’t need to be in your closet. I’m a big believer in a seasonal closet overhaul. If you’re not gravitating toward something anymore, don’t save it for a rainy day. If you haven’t worn it in two or three years, let it go. It’s not serving you. It’s not bringing you joy. Maureen: I’m a secret minimalist, so I love that advice. And I love what you said about paying attention to how it feels on you rather than how it looks on someone else. I think I could have used that advice years ago. Thank you so much. Where can listeners find you? Evonne: You can all find me on Substack at Musings of a Merchandiser [https://open.substack.com/pub/musingsofamerchandiser]. Maureen: Fabulous. I’ll make sure to link to that. Thank you—this was really fun. Evonne: Thanks for having me. Outro Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton [https://open.substack.com/users/46564061-maureen-mclennon-welton?utm_source=mentions]. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton. In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style [https://open.substack.com/pub/maureenwelton], the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/intuitive-style/id1799629044] or Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3oHE3NU8ih9miX43YDwI8D], or share with someone who might enjoy it. Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays. Thanks Get full access to Intuitive Style at maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe [https://maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Episode 25. Can analytical be intuitive? with Anika Krueger

After an unexpected few month break due to debilitating health issues, I’m delighted to be back with a fantastic episode featuring Anika Krueger [https://substack.com/profile/121524626-anika-krueger]! I’m biased, but especially excited to share this episode as Anika is not only a great writer, but actually a listener of this very podcast—as such, very qualified to weigh in on the concept of “intuitive dressing”. We also discuss her great series Style Notes, what’s on her do-not-buy list, and more. Enjoy! Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style.I’m Maureen McLennon Welton [https://substack.com/profile/46564061-maureen-mclennon-welton]. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is Anika Krueger [https://substack.com/profile/121524626-anika-krueger], writer of NO WARDROBE. Anika is an uber-stylish corporate girly by day, personal stylist by night. We love her style analyses and the way that she makes high street look high end. Anika, welcome to the show. Anika: Hi, Maureen. Thank you so much for having me. So glad to get to talk to you. Maureen: You’ve such an early supporter of the concept of intuitive style and of the podcast, and just in general the idea of intuitive dressing. I would just love to hear from you—what is your definition of what it means to dress intuitively? What does this concept mean to you and how does it show up in your life? Anika: I think it’s so funny because I feel like from the outside my personal style doesn’t appear intuitive at all. It’s really minimal. I dress with a really limited color palette and very few details. My style is defined by clean lines, neutral tones, and really simple silhouettes. I feel like most people associate intuitive style with really playful, experimental, expressive looks, but that’s so not me. And I feel like the same applies to my home and my lifestyle. Everything is really minimalist—my apartment is really simple, really uncluttered, and filled only with things that make sense to me. Also with my interior decorating, I use really neutral colors. So both my wardrobe and my environment are always really edited and very curated—almost the opposite of intuitive. But I’ve realized that my intuition actually guides me toward this simplicity. It took me years to accept that my true style is that simple—and maybe kind of boring in a way—but my intuition expresses itself through calm and clarity. I like order. I like harmony. My brain and emotions feel best in simplicity. I recently had this epiphany that, for me, intuitive style actually means choosing what supports my nervous system. Does that sound weird? I need to wear clothes that feel like me and match my emotions that day. Dressing intuitively simply means aligning how I feel with how I present myself. So yeah, to sum everything up, it’s choosing what supports the version of myself I want to be and what supports my nervous system. Maureen: Well, we can end the podcast right there. No, I mean, that’s so incredible. And I agree with you on every point about the misconceptions—what we think intuitive style might look like versus what it actually feels like. Intuitive style isn’t an aesthetic; it’s a preference. It’s a way of choosing. You were talking about your nervous system and how clothing supports it. Can you walk through an example—maybe a time when you tried something more colorful or wild and felt it didn’t align, versus something you really enjoy wearing? What’s the difference in feeling for you? Anika: Off the top of my head, I don’t necessarily remember a specific example because every time before I leave the house I actually check whether something supports my nervous system or not. But I do remember this massive teddy fur coat I got probably two years ago. I felt so visible—so seen—on the street, and I couldn’t handle that at the time. That’s probably a good example. Maureen: Yeah, that’s a great example. I can think of that too—sometimes something just feels loud, and it’s not the kind of attention you want. Anika: Exactly. Maureen: You mentioned that before you leave the house every day, you do a nervous system check. I need more information. What is this? Anika: I mean, I do lay out my clothes before I leave the house because I leave really early in the morning for work. But mostly, I just look in the mirror and check: what’s on the agenda today? How do I feel today? And most importantly, how do I want to feel today? Then I do a little check—does my outfit represent that? Let’s say I’m wearing a leather jacket, but I don’t feel very strong that day, or I chose something that makes me feel more visible than I want to be. Then I’ll just change it or make little tweaks. Maureen: So the idea is choosing something that represents how you’re feeling on that day versus just in general—or maybe both? Anika: Yeah, yeah, both probably. I also—and I think I’ve talked about this on Substack before—I always feel like I want to have a cohesive look throughout my personal style. So that’s actually referring to what you said about emotions in general or representation in general. Maureen: Yeah. Yeah. What do you think it is about that idea of being cohesive that resonates with you? I know I do, and so many other people do. What is it about that that feels good to you? Anika: I think my Style Notes on Substack actually give away that I’m quite analytical. And also, I think that reflects my more perfectionist side. I feel like that’s probably the reason. Maureen: Yeah, yeah, that’s super fair. Let’s talk about that. So, okay, I think another misconception that I’ve experienced with intuitive style is that it’s somehow the opposite of being analytical. I think for me—and from what I’ve heard from you—they’re actually very intertwined. With your Style Notes, if I can summarize, you analyze a really cool person and their style, and you see what it is about that which works or resonates with you. So I’d love to hear your take on how being analytical relates to being intuitive. Do you think they’re opposites? Do you think they fit together? How does that work? Anika: Yeah, I actually think they do fit together, and they intertwine. I feel like on a subconscious level, I would always be analytical. But then this intuitive or emotional side that we’ve talked about also plays a role in that. I think I always have style formulas and patterns in the back of my head—even things I’ve probably already discussed on my podcast or in my style notes. And then my intuitive style actually plays with that. So they kind of intertwine—my more perfectionist or analytical side and my intuitive side. In the end, I think it’s a sum of both of those that makes me get dressed. Maureen: Yeah. Can I share how I see they relate and see what you think? Anika: Okay. Maureen: To me, it’s like if you think about a trained interior designer or a trained artist—yes, you can absolutely be completely self-taught and create something totally new. And also, a lot of artists learn techniques by studying people they look up to or artworks they’re inspired by. When you think about someone who’s learned how to sculpt marble, for example, that’s not something you just pick up one day and nail on the first try. Someone probably had to teach you techniques. So I see it as a study—it’s a study in something we’re clearly passionate about, which is getting dressed. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with studying what other people are doing in order to interpret it for ourselves. I think it’s just a deeper way of engaging with the topic. Maureen: And I think it’s—I don’t think that mimicking or taking pieces from what someone else is wearing is ever going to look or feel exactly the same on us anyway, because we are unique individuals. Our personality and all of that really impacts how it feels. So I see it as a way of engaging deeper in a topic that we care about. How do you feel about that? Anika: I love that idea. I mean, actually, when you mentioned the trained interior designer example, I immediately thought of a trained dancer. A trained dancer also trains—they have routines, they have training sessions—but in a way they have to bring emotion into it once they start dancing and moving. So of course there’s choreography once they’re on stage, but there’s so much intuition in the way they dance and move. And yeah, I love that you’re also a supporter of the idea that you can copy other people but still remain true to yourself or true to your intuitive style in the end. Maureen: Yeah. Well, I think we should touch on perfectionism then, because to me, being analytical isn’t the same thing as being a perfectionist. They’re related, but not the same. I’m curious about your thoughts on this. To me, perfectionism is where you take analytics too far and you’re like, “Oh, if it’s not exact, it’s not worth trying.” How do you think about analytics? Sorry, I should have asked you first—I got excited. Anika: No, no, that’s okay. I feel like I’ve never thought about it that way. They were always intertwined for me. This analytical side always had almost a bad association or connotation for me. But actually, analyzing something can support your idea of something, or just serve as research. And I like that you separate those two or differentiate between the two ideas. Perfectionism per se is not something bad, and being analytical is also not something bad. But I like that you actually separate them. Maureen: Yeah. I mean, I think I can give an example. I love your Style Notes series, right? And it encouraged me to write my own version—I couldn’t help it. I saw yours and I was like, “I have to do one like this.” I was so excited by it. That emotional response made me want to do this highly analytical thing. They’re very intertwined. And then the difference I see is this: if I analyze someone’s style and recreate it, my version will look different—spoiler alert, it always will. If I then automatically say, “Different is bad. I failed. This wasn’t worth trying,” that’s where it tips into perfectionism. That’s where it becomes, “I shouldn’t even bother dressing like the people whose style I like. I shouldn’t even bother wearing the clothes that excite and energize me, because on me it won’t be right. It’ll look bad. My body will make it look bad.” That’s where it becomes unhealthy—this pessimism that stops us from even going for the things that excite us. Anika: I love your take on that. Maureen: Does that resonate with you? Have you ever had that experience? Anika: Yes. I think whoever I look at within my Style Notes, I always—and that’s why I do that little section at the end—ask, “What do I take away for my own personal style?” And it’s always something really abstract. I think it’s important to see patterns rather than saying, “Okay, this outfit consists of a white shirt plus black jeans and boots.” But rather, what’s the vibe behind the outfit? What do I like about it? And how does it make me feel, rather than focusing on the elements or the specific pieces in the outfit? Not “how can I copy that person best,” but “how can I make my own version of this?” or “what about this look or this personal style would benefit my own style?” I think it’s important to see patterns rather than saying, “Okay, this outfit consists of a white shirt plus black jeans and boots.” But rather, what’s the vibe behind the outfit? What do I like about it? And how does it make me feel, rather than focusing on the elements or the specific pieces in the outfit? Not “how can I copy that person best,” but “how can I make my own version of this?” or “what about this look or this personal style would benefit my own style?” - Anika Krueger [https://substack.com/profile/121524626-anika-krueger] Maureen: Yeah, no, I love that. I think we have to let the emotional and analytical sides coexist. I think they’re better together—that’s my take. I would love to talk next about how you decide what to buy and where—and how you decide what not to buy and where. Anika: That’s really funny, because I feel like my personal style is actually defined by what I decide not to buy and not to wear. Because it’s so curated, edited, and minimal, I’m not an impulse shopper. I buy very intentionally. I have a really clear vision of what I want to buy and how I want to dress. I gravitate toward pieces that already feel like they’re hanging in my wardrobe. And that often leads me to buying upgraded versions of things I already have—pieces that are really aligned with my personal style and also with practicality. I keep a list that I update regularly of things I don’t want to buy—almost like a reminder. And that’s something I do not only with my wardrobe, but in life in general. I love reflecting on past decisions, not in a bad or unhealthy way, but more like, “Don’t buy that weird thing again,” or “Remember last time you sold 20 logo shirts?” It’s more in that way. Maureen: Okay. I think what can be really hard is knowing what we do and don’t like. One thing you said is that you buy things that feel like they’d already be hanging in your closet. I don’t expect this to be an easy answer, but how do you build that trust? How do you know when an item feels like it’s missing? Anika: Oh, that’s a good question. I think it’s kind of like the Marie Kondo thing—it sparks joy. You can’t really put your finger on it. I try things on, and if it feels like a true addition to my wardrobe, like an extension, then it feels right. And that brings us back to intuition. I think I’m someone with a really strong gut feeling. Sometimes I feel it first, and the explanation comes later. It’s about trying something on and doing that little check-in: “Okay, that’s it,” or “That’s not it.” Sometimes I can point to why—the length, the silhouette, the material. And sometimes I can’t. You just hang it back. And I also think you have to remind yourself and build a kind of style confidence—with your personal style and with the more practical side of having a wardrobe. You go shopping, you have a feeling about something, and you trust yourself enough to say, “That’s not the right decision today—or ever.” Maureen: Do you have a sense, just ballpark, of your success rate? Like, for how many things you try on, how many do you actually end up buying? Anika: Oh, that’s so interesting. That’s such a good question. Sometimes I try things on just to see—to push a little outside the box. But the rate of things I actually buy is quite low. I’m not someone who loves shopping and tries on a million things. I’m more like, “Okay, I want to see how that feels.” Sometimes I try something on purely out of curiosity. I recently went to Amsterdam and we went into, I think, Filippa K. I tried on this really beautiful coat that was very cinched at the waist. I just wanted to see how it looked on my body. And I think I should do that more often. That would probably be really good for my intuitive style—letting it grow a bit and allowing my personal style to evolve. But yeah, to come back to your question, the rate is pretty low for things I try and don’t end up buying. Maureen: Hmm….I try so many things on—so many—and then I buy, like, one thing. I don’t know. I think there’s sometimes a size component that makes it more complicated, like fit, when your body isn’t really designed for certain things. But even when I was in more clearly straight sizes, I still tried on a lot and didn’t end up buying much, or it didn’t stay long. For me, that goes back to the idea of how analytical and emotional fit together. I need data to respond to. I’m collecting data when I try things on, when I browse online, when I compare measurements. All of that data helps me decide what’s worth ordering and what’s not. And then from there, I keep what I can keep. It sounds like you have a different approach—you know what you want to try on, and you feel pretty confident it’s going to work. And then it does. Anika: I mean, sometimes—especially in this day and age with online shopping—it’s been a tough day and you order something, and suddenly two or three things are in your basket that probably aren’t supposed to be there. But yeah. And actually, you inspired me to do this more often—spending a day with a good friend and just browsing. I don’t think I necessarily take the time to do that, but I should. And I think there’s no right or wrong approach here. Maureen: Totally. And just to be clear, when I say I try on a lot of stuff, it’s usually because I have a very specific idea of what I want, and I’m trying on different versions of the same thing. I’m not trying on things I know I don’t want. For example, I don’t wear yellow, so I’m not trying on yellow. But if I want a gray sweater, I’ll try on quite a few of them. Anika: I completely understand. It can be hard to find the right version, but I think it’s worth trying. Maureen: It is. Yeah. Very interesting. Very interesting. I also wanted to go back to something you mentioned—you said that when you buy something, you want to extend or enhance your wardrobe. I love that idea. Can you say more about what you mean by that? Anika: Yeah, this is probably also a bit of a perfectionist idea, but in the end, I want my wardrobe to represent only what makes sense to me. I’m really intentional about what goes in, like I said. Maureen: Can I check if this is part of what you mean? You don’t buy just to buy—everything has a purpose. Do you buy multiples of things? And if you do, are they very different? How do you know something is extending your wardrobe versus just making things easier? What’s the difference between ease and extension? Anika: I actually don’t buy multiples. I feel like my entire personal style journey is based on upgrading versions of things. Like, let’s take your gray sweater, for instance. For me, it’s oversized blazers. Ten years ago, I started collecting oversized blazers, and I always sell one and then buy an upgraded version that fits my—probably also trend-led—idea of an oversized blazer at that time. So “enhancing” or “extending” a blazer really means buying upgraded versions rather than buying multiples. If you look at my personal style over the last ten years, it’s always been oversized blazers, loafers, ballet flats, coats, trench coats—just in different versions. I sell a lot of clothes secondhand and really try to keep only the things in my wardrobe that I truly love. And I completely understand your idea of trying different versions of a gray sweater. Maureen: Yeah. And when you say “enhanced version,” you mentioned that sometimes that can be trend-led. Is that mostly what you mean, or is there another element? Anika: Yeah, I think it’s mostly—sadly—trend-led. At the moment, it’s exaggerated shoulders, very textured fabrics, that really strong silhouette, like The Frankie Shop, to name a brand. But I also think intuition and the emotional side guide me, too. I’m not only buying enhanced versions because of trends—I’m also buying for a personality that has grown so much over the last ten years. I’ve become more courageous about buying more quote-unquote fashion pieces. I used to be much more of a people pleaser, and now I’ve realized that people don’t really care what you’re wearing. That’s also what makes something like an oversized blazer feel like an enhanced version. Maureen: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s awesome. I’m with you. Let’s talk about something you mentioned earlier—looking at your wish list. Do you have one? Anika: I actually don’t have a wish list. I have a not-to-buy list. I love the idea of a wish list and the satisfaction of checking things off, but I only have a not-to-buy list. Maureen: So what’s on it right now? Anika: All right, let me check my notes. First—no surprise—sneakers, except maybe one elegant Samba version. Short jackets that don’t cover the hips. I always gravitate toward them, and I always sell them. It goes back to what we talked about earlier—I feel very seen in short jackets, and it’s not comfortable for me. Logo shirts and sweatshirts. Shoes you can’t walk in—I commute to work and have a 30-minute walk every morning. I tried shoes I couldn’t walk in until last year, and I’m smarter now. Maureen: Yeah, that’s good. Anika: The last three are colors: khaki green pieces, warm beige pieces, and dark gray pieces. It’s very specific, but it’s so helpful to have that guidance. Maureen: Mm-hmm. It’s funny—those three colors are also colors I don’t buy. Yay. Anika: So what would be on your not-to-buy list? Maureen: What is on my not-to-buy list? Long jackets. Anika: Interesting. Maureen: Because it’s not really required by the weather here. I do have two long jackets, but that’s plenty. This might be a cop-out, but also things I don’t like. Sometimes I’ll buy something because it’s practical or comfortable or “good enough,” and then I have a hard time styling it. It takes up so much brain space in a way that things I genuinely like don’t. Those feel effortless. So yeah, my biggest rule is: if I don’t really like it, please don’t buy it. There’s a lace shirt that looks really cool under a dress. I ordered the dress and I’m keeping it—I really like it, I’ve already worn it a bunch. But the top…I liked it in theory. I have to send it back because I know I don’t actually like it. It’s not the exact right one, whatever it is. And if I keep it, it’s going to be a whole headache. So I’m sending it back. Anika: Perfect. Yeah, that’s actually the idea of “sparking joy” that I mentioned before. Maureen: Yeah. Exactly. As easy as that. Anika: Yeah. Maureen: It can be hard, especially when you have a really specific idea in your head of what you want to accomplish, and something is close—but it’s not it. Anika: True. Maureen: Okay, so we’ve talked a little about how you feel in your clothes on the emotional side. What about body awareness? How things feel on your body—the texture, the fit. How does that influence what you decide to buy and wear? Anika: I think it influences me both subconsciously and consciously. I’m really grateful to say that my body feels more like a friend—it gives me signals. And I know not everybody can say that. For me, body awareness is less about sizing or silhouettes and more about the emotional side, the nervous system side we’ve talked about. Of course, body awareness plays a huge role in what I decide to buy or wear, especially combined with the emotional side of getting dressed. Whenever I feel like I need support in the morning, I’ll wear something in a stronger material—like a heavy leather jacket or a textured oversized blazer with exaggerated shoulders. We’ve also talked about visibility versus invisibility. When you feel very visible, you become extremely aware of your body and very self-conscious. In that sense, body awareness probably plays the most important role when I get dressed, combined with the idea of supporting my nervous system. Maureen: When you talk about feeling exposed, what does that feel like? Is it fear? What does that sensation actually feel like? Anika: Not necessarily scared—more like, “Okay, everyone’s looking.” It’s totally uncomfortable. Maybe it’s like a distraction. Yeah. A distraction, but also anxiety. You’re just very aware of the fact that you’re wearing something specific. You feel sensitive. Maureen: Yeah. Absolutely. I get that. Maureen: So we’ve talked a little bit about how you feel in your clothes, more on the emotional side. What about body awareness? So this would be how things feel on your body—the texture or the fit. How does that influence what you decide to buy and wear? Anika: I think it influences me both subconsciously and consciously. I’m really grateful to say that I actually feel like my body is more of a friend—it gives me signals. And I know not everybody can say that. For me, body awareness is less about sizing or silhouettes and more about the emotional side, this whole nervous-system aspect I’ve talked about. Of course, body awareness plays a huge role in what I decide to buy or wear, especially when we talk about the emotional side of getting dressed. Whenever I feel like I need a bit of support in the morning, I’ll wear something in a stronger material—like a heavy leather jacket or a textured oversized blazer with exaggerated shoulders. We’ve also talked about visibility versus invisibility. In that sense, you become very aware of your body and very self-conscious. So body awareness probably plays the biggest role when I get dressed, combined with the idea of supporting my nervous system. Maureen: Yeah. And when you talk about feeling exposed, what does that feel like? Is it fear? What does that sensation feel like for you? Anika: Not necessarily scared—more like, “Okay, everyone’s looking.” It’s totally uncomfortable. Maybe it’s more like a distraction. But also anxiety. You’re just so aware of the fact that you’re wearing something specific. You feel sensitive. Maureen: Yeah. Absolutely. I get that. Okay, let’s talk about how your style has changed. I know we’ve talked a little bit about how a lot of elements have stayed the same, but are there any memorable phases you can think of? Anika: Yeah. I think my personal style is so closely connected to my personality that any major life change has been a reason for my style to evolve. The first one that comes to mind is university. I moved to a bigger city, and my style evolved during that quote-unquote blogger era. That was the first time I really had to filter style influences. I was chronically overdressed—oversized blazers, loafers—while everyone else at uni, in this really open-minded, casual city, wore Converse, jeans, and T-shirts. My early style was very vintage, retro, hipster, and very overdressed. Then it transitioned into more of a minimalist phase—almost a Gandhi minimalist style—even more minimal than today. That was also during the capsule wardrobe era. I never fully did a capsule wardrobe, but I came very close. Then, in my early law career, when I started my first law job, my style truly felt like my own. Around that time, someone very close to me became really ill, and getting dressed for work became an emotional anchor. No one at work knew what was happening in my personal life, and getting dressed—really dressing up—was the biggest and most grateful distraction. It helped me support my emotions and keep it together. After that, all major life changes just built on that evolution—breakups, moving cities. What’s funny is that the city I live in now is the first place I’ve ever truly felt at home. People dress up, but in a very authentic way. I don’t have to wear Converse just to fit in, and that feels really nice. Maureen: Yeah, I was actually hoping to talk about that. I think there’s a very real tension between wearing what feels good to us and wearing what feels good relative to the people around us. There can be a divide between what feels like it represents our personality and what we’re seeing around us. So when you were at uni and everyone was wearing Converse—did you feel more comfortable in loafers, or did it depend on the situation? How did you navigate that mismatch? Anika: That’s so interesting. I don’t think I had the confidence back then to wear the loafers and feel good. I wore a mishmash—I’d wear the Converse with the blazer. I tried to adapt to a level that felt acceptable but never actually felt good. I’ve become much better at not doing that. For example, casual events where you don’t really know anyone—I used to dress way down for those. Actually, Substack really helped me with that. It kind of taught me that it’s okay to dress the way you want, even if the crowd isn’t into fashion or dressing up. That’s not a reason to adapt. Now I’m more confident choosing the loafers—but I used to absolutely choose the Chucks instead. Maureen: Yeah, that’s super fair. So what advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them? Anika: I love that question. I’d say: take it seriously. I actually have to remind myself of that too. Fashion is often considered superficial, but it’s not. View it as something important to you and see it as a holistic process. Take your emotions and your confidence into consideration. Take time to discover not only what you want to wear, but how you want to feel. Also, discover what your values are. That circles back to the Converse-versus-loafers discussion—just be unapologetic about who you are. Grow into a version of yourself you like, and then dress accordingly. Take your time figuring out what that means for you. I also think it’s helpful to see your wardrobe as a space of happiness. That sounds cheesy, but really—fall in love with fashion, celebrate it as something important, something you do for yourself. In the end, it’s how you show up in the world. It’s the first thing people see about you. I always have to remind myself that it matters because it influences so many areas of my life. Maureen: Great advice. Well, thank you so much. Where can listeners find you? Anika: First on my Substack—it’s called No Wardrobe. The original idea was that I wanted to sell my entire wardrobe and build it from scratch. My Instagram is anika.ricarda. People can also find me on Indyx [https://styling.myindyx.com/stylist/anikaricarda]—I’m a personal stylist there. The link is in my Instagram bio [https://www.instagram.com/anika.ricarda] and on Substack. Maureen: Awesome. I’ll make sure all of that is linked in the show notes. Thank you so much. Outro Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton [https://open.substack.com/users/46564061-maureen-mclennon-welton?utm_source=mentions]. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton. In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style [https://open.substack.com/pub/maureenwelton], the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/intuitive-style/id1799629044] or Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3oHE3NU8ih9miX43YDwI8D], or share with someone who might enjoy it. Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays. Thanks Get full access to Intuitive Style at maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe [https://maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Episode 24. Rambling in [Intuitive] Style, with Traci Landy

Head’s up—there won’t be an episode next week but don’t worry, we have amazing episodes coming up, including with Anika Krueger [https://substack.com/profile/121524626-anika-krueger], Lindsay Sword [https://substack.com/profile/13661789-lindsay-sword] and more folks you won’t want to miss! Today’s guest is Traci Landy [https://substack.com/profile/322416707-traci-landy] of Rambling in Style. Traci shares her experience as a college athlete, discovering her creative-side as an adult, and what she’s trying to say with her clothing. Enjoy! Episode Transcript This transcript has been edited for clarity. Welcome Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen McLennon Welton [https://open.substack.com/users/46564061-maureen-mclennon-welton?utm_source=mentions]. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is Traci, writer of Rambling in Style on Substack. Traci launched into the scene in the spring and has been lighting up our feeds ever since. And in addition to writing about style, she’s a full-time school teacher and parent. I love her extremely relatable angle as a fellow self-taught personal style enthusiast. I think this is really important kind of representation. Traci, welcome to the show. Traci: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. I’m excited to chat with you. Maureen: One thing I appreciate about your writing is your flexibility and the way that you allow yourself to kind of go where the vibe takes you. So for example, your post about palate cleansers, which aside from being a great lesson in slowing down, also touched on rule breaking. Specifically, you had planned out a handful of outfits and ended up dressing very differently. So what is that decision-making process like, planning outfits and staying flexible? Traci: It’s so funny because all my friends and family would describe me as like the least flexible person in the universe. To say, that this is a skill that I’ve had to really try to build over time is the truth. Our family was going to Aruba and I have been loving using Indyx to digitize my wardrobe and I’ll probably talk about it a lot here and there. I was digitizing my wardrobe, planning a collection of what I was going to wear each day. One of the things when we go away, we have this unspoken family rule that it’s carry-on only. Like we don’t check bags. We refuse to do it. We went to Disney World for like eight days and we did not check a bag. So I’m trying to get everything neatly in my luggage and I plan it down to the T, and I got to Aruba and it’s funny, like you mentioned vibes, the vibes just didn’t feel good. They felt off for what I packed. Old Tracy would have probably went into a panic, right? Of like, but I planned this and I have to take pictures and what about my content and what about my next blog post? And this new Traci 2.0 that I’m really growing into since kind of my Substack launched in the spring has really been kind of like, okay, pause. You don’t really want to get dressed right now. You don’t really want to put on these really cute outfits that you planned. You instead want to focus on just being present with your family. You don’t want to be running around holding your camera, taking pictures. Like it just wasn’t what I wanted to do on the trip. And there was this part of me that felt so guilty, right? Like I was like, I packed these outfits, I have to shoot them, people need to see them, that’s what the people want, and I had to take a minute and say, like, but what do I want? Like right now I want time with my family and right now I want to wear what just feels… I don’t really want to put a heel on or, you know, a pair of shorts that might just feel a little tight right now because I’m having fun with my family and we’re trying all the things. And I think it’s just building that skill of just giving myself permission to say, you can change course, right? Like you don’t have to go into something and say, I’m 100% doing this because it’s what everyone else wants. It was in that moment saying, well, what do I want right now? I want to be comfortable. I don’t wanna wear all these things that I planned out and I wanna enjoy being present with my family. And that’s kind of where that post came from. Like it wasn’t supposed to be that. It was supposed to be everything else. And giving myself grace to say, you can change course and allowing myself, I love to make rules for myself, right? Like I have to wear this or I have to have this done by this day or whatever it is. And a lot of the rules I make for myself, nobody else is making them for me. So in this new 2.0 phase, it’s been a lot of saying like, okay, you can pivot and you can pivot and be okay, right? You don’t have to have this breakdown or this shaming that you didn’t do what you planned. You can just pivot and try something different. When it comes to getting dressed, a lot of what I do is I pivot and I can make those adjustments. But the big thing for me has been like not following that up with shame, right? Of like, you did a bad job or you didn’t do what you said you were going to do. It’s okay to let the world down to take care of yourself. And I think that was that moment. So on this podcast, I try to talk about body awareness. And I think that’s a big part of telling our bodies that, or making sure that our bodies and our minds are in the right roles. Maureen: So I’m just curious, you had mentioned that in the past you would have panicked. This time, how do you make that transition to not panicking when the situation is the same? Do you lead with your mind? Do you lead with your body? Traci: Yeah. I think it’s a lot of leading with my mind because I think that is my worst enemy. And I write about this all the time about like, you know, being a super type B person and sometimes like being a little bit of a hot mess and having to juggle that. And sometimes that can be really stressful, but yeah, I think a lot of it is like conditioning my mind to say like, it’s okay. Like you can make those changes, you can be flexible, you can wear what feels good to you and nobody’s watching. Nobody really, nobody really cares what you’re wearing sometimes. And, you know, I think that’s just like an inner dialogue that I learned with a lot of help to have with myself. Maureen: And in those moments, do you try on the outfit that you were originally thinking and then take it off? Or is it more like you see the outfit in your head and you’re like, I don’t even want to put it on? How does that feel? Traci: So it’s like, I’ll get out of the shower, I’ll get myself ready. And then I’ll look at my phone and I’ll look at the outfit that I planned and I’m just like, no. Yeah. Okay. No, it’s just not today. You know, we’re going to get tacos. I don’t need to wear this gorgeous little look to go get taco meat spilled all over me. It’s just, no, I’m a big vibes person. And when I feel it, I kind of just try to trust my gut and what it’s telling me to do. “No, it’s just not today. We’re going to get tacos. I don’t need to wear this gorgeous little look to go get taco meat spilled all over me…I’m a big vibes person. And when I feel it, I kind of just try to trust my gut and what it’s telling me to do.” - Traci Landy Maureen: Yeah. Thank God for our gut. I’d love to talk about how you decide what to buy and where and what not to buy or wear. Traci: I think I feel like my style evolution has really changed this a lot in my life. One of the things that really attracts me to a piece is colors. And it’s funny, because I’m not a very colorful dresser, but one thing that I really obsess over is the combinations of colors. I always say I’m a huge copycat. I love to see things and put my own twist on it or admire it and appreciate it and try to replicate it in my own way. I never sell myself as an expert or a stylist. I literally am like, I’m a civilian. I’m a mom. I’m just trying to look good. And I’m like, I’m the guinea pig. I’m taking what everyone’s talking about and seeing how I can work it in real life. A lot of what I do is I’ll find color combinations that I really like. And then I’ll focus on a piece or something. And I usually like to then go to Pinterest. Right. And I’ll look and see, like, how can I work this green sweater? And I’ll just search, you know, green sweater outfits. And I’m just kind of looking through them and I’ll sift through them. And any time I find that color that matches this combination that I start to like, then I just start saving it. Right. And then after a while, when I start to see for me, a big thing is like, is it versatile? Like, can I really use this piece? Because if it’s really just this one-trick pony, it’s not worth it for me to invest. Right. I don’t have endless dollars. Like I’m a school teacher, you know, like I’m a mom. And for me, it’s a real careful consideration that most of my friends and family think is absolutely insane. But I like to really just kind of luxuriate in the colors and see if they can work. And I think that’s part of why I love graphics and design so much. I think another thing has really been like for me, as far as buying is finding brands that I really like. And unfortunately, sometimes brands that I like are out of my price range. And I have to be okay with saying like, I can’t afford that, right? Like, I could look secondhand, I could wait, I can hope for a sale, but I think it’s coming to terms with like, where can I get what I’m looking for that’s a good quality, that’s in a range that I feel okay spending. Because there’s nothing that feels worse than overspending for something that doesn’t get its use for me. So with that, I’ve found some brands that I really gravitate to. Like, I’m waiting for J. Crew to call me, like, please. But no, I think I love to, you know, I feel like they really align with my style. I found over the years, for example, Madewell really aligns well with my style. But not only do they align with my style, they align with my budget and how much I’m willing to spend and how much I can spend. I’m also just a really big mood-based dresser. I joke about vibes, and a lot of when I get dressed and gravitate to certain pieces really just has to do with a feeling that it can evoke. And I think those are the biggest things. Maureen: I wanted to go back to color because I’m also very particular about color, and I’ll get kind of a color stuck in my brain and want to buy something in that color. Then I’ll buy the first version of it that I see that is the right proportion or whatever, and then I’ll be like, oh, that wasn’t how I wanted to wear that color. I want to wear that color in a different way, but I bought this thing and now I’m trying to use it. Is this a very me problem, or do you ever do that where you are so caught on a color that you’re not really thinking about how you want to use it and more about using it? Traci: Often. I think this color thing has been something I’ve always dealt with. I am a self-proclaimed Aquarius, and I love announcing to the world that I’m an Aquarius. So there’s this creative edge sometimes that I have, and when it comes to colors, I do something really similar. I’ll find a color and hyper-fixate on how much I love it—maybe it’s cobalt blue—and I just can’t stop thinking about it. Sometimes instead of reaching for the first one I find that I may not really love, I start thinking, I need a cobalt blue sweatshirt, I need a cobalt blue sweater. Then it’s like, okay, I want all these things, but how can I find them at the cheapest price? I go through this whole hamster wheel until I finally have to self-talk myself and say, stop. Do not think about this for a week, then come back to it with a clear mind. Maureen: No, that’s super fair. One thing I do is I’ll buy it in nail polish. Traci:Ooh, yeah. Maureen: That kind of helps me get unstuck a little bit. So we talked a little bit about body awareness, but are there any specific textures, fits, or styles that you gravitate towards because of how they feel on your body or how they make you feel? Traci: Do you mind if I segue a little bit to talk about my journey with body awareness? I felt like there were a couple of big shifts in my life that shaped when I became really aware of the skin I’m in. One of those is college athletics—I played lacrosse in college, and being an athlete very much defined who I was for a big portion of my life. When I think back on my college experience, that was the first time I became hyper-aware of my body. I was lucky to grow up in a home where that was never something I thought about. My parents were incredible. In college, being part of a team made me start not only seeing myself but looking at everyone else. Some things that contributed were a heavy, intense strength and conditioning program where we were Olympic lifting, getting big and strong. It was about who could lift more, which was celebrated. But there was also the weight component; they would measure body composition and clip, you know, love handles. Nobody did it to make us feel bad, but there were conversations about percentages, and mine was never great. We also had to announce what size sweatshirt we wanted—I always got a large while everyone else got small or extra small. I remember being one of the only players who didn’t want to take off my shirt on a trip to Australia because I was with women who were incredibly fit, and that just wasn’t my body type. From then, a long journey of comparing myself, not really loving myself, and wanting something I couldn’t have started. It’s taken a long time to reflect on that and how it shaped how I see myself in the world and how I model behaviors in front of my daughter. College athletics are intense, and you get feedback from all angles—people commenting, parents suggesting exercises. Sophomore year, my eating wasn’t great, I lost a lot of weight, and I looked great from the outside. I got the most positive feedback from the world around me, which taught me that positive attention could come at a personal cost. Just to say, everyone has a journey. We don’t just wake up one day and take outfit selfies loving ourselves. There’s a lot of work that goes into having the courage to do that. After having my kids, it was about trying to re-love my body and accept its changes. I wrote on Substack about my miscarriages and having to learn to love a body that let me down. Only in recent years am I overcoming that. When I think about what I like to wear, it’s important to understand the journey that got me here. Thinking about fabrics and textures—there were times I couldn’t look in the mirror without crying. I love to wear things that are comfortable; if something digs in, I won’t feel good. I love elastic waistbands, satin pants, high-waisted jeans. I would love to be a low-waisted girly—it looks cool—but for my body, high-waisted jeans and oversized clothing feel best. It’s not about not loving my body; it’s about what feels good. Comfort and how I feel in it really dictate what I gravitate to. “When I think about what I like to wear, it’s important to understand the journey that got me here.” - Traci Landy Maureen: There’s so much there. I wanted to go back quickly to your college experience. I personally practice Health At Every Size [https://asdah.org/haes/]. For listeners—weight, size, and health are not always equated as we think. That [societal] oversimplification can be harmful, especially when how you feel internally differs from perception. Traci: Yeah. I think it’s about honoring your body, not just others’ perspectives. Safety isn’t only about what others think; it’s a balance. Fashion is also about expression and communication, not just comfort. So what I want the world to know based on what I’m wearing is that I am creative. It might sound unexciting, but it’s about showing that I’m more than a mother, wife, or teacher. I’ve grappled with who I am outside of those roles. I never wanted to lose the artistic, creative piece I discovered as an adult. “What I want the world to know—based on what I’m wearing—is that I am creative. It might sound unexciting, but it’s about showing that I’m more than a mother, wife, or teacher. I’ve grappled with who I am outside of those roles.” - Traci Landy Traci: When I get dressed, it’s a way to express that—to show I have passions beyond family and career, supported by family and friends. I also want to appear approachable. I love the little conversations with people about fashion—compliments, shared admiration—it’s opened doors for friendships and connections in adult life. Maureen: Yeah, I relate so hard. I can’t believe those words are exactly what I would say. You mentioned as you became an adult, you realized you had this creative and artistic passion. Are there any other ways outside of fashion that you dig in or utilize those skills? Tracy: It’s a great one. So I think writing is kind of a way that I’m able to do that. One of the things I love on my blog, which is like, I probably pay way too much attention to it on Substack, are graphics and images. I love design, and no, as far as design in my house, no, I’m not good at that, but when it comes to design, that is something I really enjoy. I started to see it in the classroom as a teacher when I was—yeah, like when I make my worksheets. I taught middle school for a really long time, and my classroom, I wish I had pictures, but it was like straight out of a Pinterest class. It was so intense, and I love color themes and when I would make worksheets, the way I wanted things formatted. I have some amazing colleagues that I work with every day, a couple of women, and they’re always cheering me on in this part of my life. One of the things they always do is they’ll make a worksheet, come up with an idea, and say, “Okay, Traci, make it pretty.” And I’m like, yeah, I got this. I’m changing the margins, and I think the more I started doing that and surrounding myself with people—some of these women included in my family—that were empowering me and saying, “You’re good at this, you should sell your worksheets, or you should write, or share, you should create an Instagram page or a TikTok,” which I can’t do, but just saying, “You should pursue this,” that was huge. I think that’s an area I do need to do a better job of finding other outlets to embrace it. I’ve wrestled with taking a painting class, and I don’t know why I haven’t just done it, but I know it’s something I really want to do and I think I’d really enjoy. It’s all new to me—literally, in the past, believe it or not, maybe under a year, I’ve really been growing into this. My whole first chunk of life was defined by athletics—this is who you are, your box, your niche, this is what you’re really good at. I never took the time to get to know myself and realize that I’m so much more than that. And I think that’s what this new chapter has been. Aside from adult coloring books, there’s more out there for me that I want, and I need to start taking the risks and seeking it out. Maureen: It’s crazy—I just bought an adult coloring book yesterday. Traci: So fun. Maureen: And I mean, I can only speak for myself, but one of the ways that can be hard in 2025 is the pressure to monetize our hobbies and turn these creative expressions into something else. Maybe I’m picking up on that from the suggestions people were giving me as well, and maybe the painting class. Does any part of that feel selfish or wrong if you’re not going to monetize it? I don’t want to put words in your mouth. Tracy: No, I think no, because for me, really, when I say it really is creative expression, I really mean that. I wrote a post about being on Instagram and struggling with content creation. I was comparing myself to everybody—why doesn’t anyone like my stuff? I was trying to engage with people and try, and it became this mind wrestle. My daughter came up one day while I was trying to make a reel, which I can’t do—I’m so bad at them. She watched me laughing and asked, “Can I see it?” We would watch them, and then she said, “Mommy, how many likes did you get?” I was like, what? She said, “How many likes and dislikes did you get?” I felt weird, like did I say something out loud, and I didn’t like the way it felt. I ended up deleting my Instagram—I was like, this isn’t for me, this doesn’t feel real, doesn’t feel good. I eventually created a really low-key new one, but it was a moment where I realized this doesn’t align with who I am right now and what I’m working on myself with. To go back to painting, I can see something and be like, this isn’t the right reason for me, it doesn’t feel good for my soul, and I can walk away. Sometimes I want to light it on fire, but I can quietly leave. Painting or something like that would just be purely a hobby. Sometimes what holds me back is time—I want to do it, but what has to give? Is it my workouts, which I need to feel good? Is it spending quality time coloring with my daughter? I just wish I had more hours in a day. Interviewer: Yeah. How is Substack, with likes and comments and gamification, different from Instagram? Tracy: It feels less saturated, more substance. Instagram moves too fast for me—I couldn’t keep up. There’s something about reading someone’s writing that slows you down and lets you absorb it. I show up with a genuine heart on any platform—that’s who I am, how I like to operate, being kind. On Substack, engagement feels more authentic. Comments feel real, like people saying, “This speaks to me,” or “Your writing feels like my inner dialogue.” It’s less competitive, more uplifting, and I feel really good there. I didn’t get that fulfillment on Instagram. Maureen: What advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic? Tracy: The most important thing is working on yourself first. For me, it was learning how to love myself, appreciate my body, and sharpen my mental health. It’s ongoing work. Then, find what attracts you—what catches your eye, whether colors, textures, or aesthetics. Start being aware of what you like, because in a world of algorithms and constant changes, it’s easy to forget what you genuinely like versus what you feel you should like. Another part is letting go of things that no longer serve you. I can be a big hoarder—jeans that I hope will fit or shirts that might come back in style. Building a wardrobe involves working on yourself first, then letting go of items that add pressure or no longer resonate, whether donating or thrifting. Also, observe the world—people, colors, art, flowers. Moments of presence are underrated. For example, my husband and I went to a concert and were waiting in a cafe, and I was just watching the people in the city, absorbing their creativity in dress, tattoos, piercings, hair—it was inspiring. Find brands that align with you, pieces that feel good and have multipurpose potential. For me, Pinterest helps figure out how to style something before investing. Apps like Indyx have helped me see my wardrobe as malleable, visualize what I have, what I need, and try new combinations. That combination of inner work, observation, and thoughtful curation has helped me build an intuitive wardrobe. Maureen: I love your suggestion about observing the world. I’m not a homebody, so I love soaking in inspiration. Thank you, Traci. This has been a delight. I resonate with so much of what you said. Where can people find you? Traci: You can find me on Substack, Rambling in Style by Traci [https://open.substack.com/pub/timelesslytraci] and on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/rambling.in.style/]. I always reply to comments or DMs. I’ve met really cool people there and look forward to connecting. Maureen: I’ll include your links in the show notes. Traci: Perfect, thank you so much. Maureen: Have a good one. Traci: Thank you, see ya. Outro Intuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton [https://open.substack.com/users/46564061-maureen-mclennon-welton?utm_source=mentions]. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton. In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style [https://open.substack.com/pub/maureenwelton], the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed. 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