Max Hodak — Restoring Sight, Growing Neurons on Silicon, and Expanding Human Intelligence

The Mission to Get Breakthrough Brain Treatments to Everyone | Jacques Carolan of ARIA

Episode 3 of my new podcast features Dr. Jacques Carolan, a founding Program Director at ARIA, the UK’s Advanced Research and Invention Agency. He directs two neurotech programs aimed at one of the most important opportunity spaces: developing tools and systems to interface, at scale, with the human brain.  One program is built on the idea that brain disorders are circuit problems, and funds tools to target those circuits with molecular precision across the whole brain. The other aims to deliver high-performance neurotech to the brain non-invasively or at most in a 30-minute outpatient procedure. We dig into the engineering and biology behind both programs, potential scaling unlocks for the field, how ARIA programs drive breakthroughs, Jacques background, the role of media in shaping the future, and much more. I hope you enjoy the conversation! Other links to this episode and references below. Sections 00:00:00 Introduction  00:01:22 Why 20 years of neurotech breakthroughs haven't reached patients  00:04:08 The two variables that determine whether any medical technology gets adopted  00:09:17 Brain disorders cost the UK £100B/year and we're barely treating them  00:16:15 Using stem cells and gene therapy to build better brain interfaces   00:21:40 Self-regulating gene therapy that helps the brain quiet its own seizures  00:24:03 The non-technical reasons transformative neurotech fail to reach patients  00:31:34 Watching a 30-second brain ablation stop severe tremors 00:38:11 The case for delivering brain implants and therapies without opening the skull 00:50:56 Why high technical uncertainty makes distributed teams better than vertical integration  01:02:55 Why the UK keeps producing world-class neuroscience but not world-class neurotech companies  01:11:04 What AI-driven hypothesis generation means for breakthroughs per pound  01:20:40 From quantum computing to improv comedy to running £119M government brain programs Links from the Podcast Jacques Carolan * Website: https://jacquescarolan.github.io/ [https://jacquescarolan.github.io/] * On X: https://x.com/jacquescarolan [https://x.com/jacquescarolan] Jacques’ Programs at ARIA * ARIA UK [https://aria.org.uk/] * Opportunity Space  [https://aria.org.uk/opportunity-spaces/scalable-neural-interfaces/] * Program 1: Precision Neurotechnologies [https://aria.org.uk/opportunity-spaces/scalable-neural-interfaces/precision-neurotechnologies/] * Program 2: Massively Scalable Neurotechnologies [https://aria.org.uk/opportunity-spaces/scalable-neural-interfaces/massively-scalable-neurotechnologies/] Research Papers + Technical References * Physical principles for scalable neural recording (2013) [https://arxiv.org/abs/1306.5709?utm_source=chatgpt.com] * How advances in neural recording affect data analysis (2011) [https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.2731?utm_source=chatgpt.com] * Personalized brain circuit scores identify clinically distinct biotypes in depression and anxiety (2024) [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-024-03057-9?utm_source=chatgpt.com] * Predictive validity in drug discovery (2022) [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41573-022-00552-x?utm_source=chatgpt.com] * The “Sewing Machine” for minimally invasive neural recording (2019) [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/578542v1?utm_source=chatgpt.com] * Professor Gabriele Lignani on closed-loop gene therapy for epilepsy [https://www.ucl.ac.uk/brain-sciences/celebrating-ucl-research-brain-sciences/professor-gabriele-lignani-developing-new-gene-therapies?utm_source=chatgpt.com] Videos + Demonstrations * DBS Tremor Surgery Demonstration [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsON79DZlW0&utm_source=chatgpt.com] * John Nelson on DBS for Depression at ARIA Summit [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX8OkqbWx3c&utm_source=chatgpt.com] References Mentioned in Conversation * Harvard Designated Driver Campaign [https://hsph.harvard.edu/research/health-communication/harvard-alcohol-project-designated-driver/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] partnered with more than 160 TV shows, including Cheers and Dallas, helping popularize designated driving before Friends premiered in 1994  * Mahnaz Avarneh — Neurotechnology Is Inequity [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp6FU8QgzK0] Books + Media * The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy — Douglas Adams [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/series/HGG/hitchhikers-guide-to-the-galaxy/] * The Expanse — James S.A. Corey [https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/series/james-s-a-corey/the-expanse/] * The Idea Factory — Jon Gertner [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/303275/the-idea-factory-by-jon-gertner/] * Imagined Worlds — Freeman Dyson [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674539099] * We Are Legion (We Are Bob) — Dennis E. Taylor [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/We-Are-Legion-(We-Are-Bob)/Dennis-E-Taylor/Bobiverse/9781668221570] * Pantheon [https://www.primevideo.com/detail/Pantheon/0JEZES1SSNVQCQHEYC282VFK2W?utm_source=chatgpt.com] * Neu World — Ryota Kanai / Araya [https://brains.link/en/news/2653?utm_source=chatgpt.com] * Analogue Quantum Simulation (Jacques’ book) [https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-87216-8] Links * Protocol Labs [https://protocol.ai]  * PL Neuro [https://plneuro.xyz]  * Juan Benet Podcast on YouTube  [https://youtu.be/YpqVcD6tc5U] * Juan Benet Podcast on Substack [https://juanbenetpodcast.com]  Disclaimer⁠: https://bit.ly/PodcastDisclaimer [https://bit.ly/PodcastDisclaimer]

Ben Rapoport — Treating Paralysis and Digitizing Neural Data

Ben is co-founder and CSO of Precision Neuroscience, Assistant Professor of Neurosurgery at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, and Scientific Director at Mount Sinai. Previously, he co-founded Neuralink and Simbionics (acquired by Apple). Precision is building a minimally invasive brain-computer interface (BCI) that reads from thousands of points on the cortex without penetrating it. The Layer 7 device is implanted through a one-millimeter slit in the skull rather than the larger borehole other approaches require. It is also fully removable. Precision seeks to help the 5 million people living with severe paralysis in the US (including 800,000 new stroke cases per year). In March 2025, Precision received FDA clearance for a temporary wired version of the system. Over 85 patients have been implanted with and used the device in clinical studies. Wireless implants are planned for 2027. We go deep on the history of Neurotech from the 1980s to the ML inflection points that triggered Neuralink's founding, why surface ECoG was a contrarian bet that's now paying off, the path to treating paralysis and stroke at scale, and why Ben believes neural data is at the same inflection point genomic data was in 2000 — a whole class of biological problems about to become tractable as computer science problems. Sections 00:00:00 Introduction  00:04:39 Paralysis as a lens to understand the brain 00:05:36 The 1980s breakthrough: population encoding and the birth of BCI 00:14:36 Google Translate, ML, and the founding of Neuralink 00:23:08 What is the long-term vision of Precision Neuroscience 00:31:56 Layer 7 and why transformative technology always looks impossible at first 00:50:21 The surgery: a slit in the skull, not a borehole 00:55:19 The clinical program: who are the patients 01:04:16 FDA clearance and the path to wireless implants in 2027 01:08:32 The patient population: paralysis and stroke at scale 01:16:26 Neural data as the new genomics 01:30:06 BCIs, AI, and the future of the human-machine interface 01:31:22 From medical necessity to lifestyle technology 01:40:36 Precision as a platform — and an optimistic vision Links from the Podcast Precision Neuroscience [https://www.precisionneuro.io] Layer 7 BCI [https://www.precisionneuro.io/our-technology] Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai [https://icahn.mssm.edu] Links Juan Benet on X [https://x.com/juanbenet] Juan Benet Podcast [https://juanbenetpodcast.com] Protocol Labs [https://protocol.ai] PL Neuro [https://plneuro.xyz] Disclaimer⁠ [https://bit.ly/PodcastDisclaimer]

Max Hodak — Restoring Sight, Growing Neurons on Silicon, and Expanding Human Intelligence

Max Hodak is the founder and CEO of Science Corp (previously co-founded Neuralink and Transcriptic). Science is building PRIMA, a retinal prosthetic that’s restoring meaningful vision for patients with blindness caused by age-related macular degeneration. The team is also developing a biohybrid brain implant that grows living neurons directly onto a silicon chip, then interfaces that system with the cortex. In this conversation, we go deep on how both technologies work, how PRIMA restores vision, how the biohybrid BCI connects to the brain, what the next milestones are for neural interfaces, and what it would imply to add a new functional brain area to a human. We also dig deep into how Max built and leads Science: his founder story, how the team drives Fast R&D, and how the team is able to speed through high-uncertainty, high-impact projects. Hope you enjoy! Timestamps 00:00 Introduction 00:52 What counts as neurotech? 01:45 History of brain-computer interfaces and the iPhone dividend 07:25 PRIMA - How Science is restoring vision in blind patients 10:10 Why stimulating bipolar cells works when the optic nerve doesn't 30:30 Are we bottlenecked by biology or engineering? 32:40 Expanding the brain's bandwidth beyond 10 bits per second 37:00 Can we add new areas to the brain? 37:46 Biohybrid BCIs: neurons growing on a chip 39:20 What could neural augmentation look like? 01:13:20 How Science drives Fast R&D 01:44:00 How founders learn and level up Links Woman hearing for the first time [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOo3jzkhYA] PRIMA Visual Prosthesis [https://science.xyz/technologies/prima/] PRIMA patient filling out crossword puzzle [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XQOgCn2WDs] PRIMA a global mission to restore vision [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_qTLT8kJPU] Biohybrid BCI [https://science.xyz/technologies/biohybrid/] Patrick Collison FAST post [https://patrickcollison.com/fast] iPhone launch keynote in 2007 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qPAY9JqE4] Pantheon on Netflix [https://www.netflix.com/title/81937398] Links Juan Benet on X [https://x.com/juanbenet] PL Neuro [https://plneuro.xyz] Protocol Labs [https://protocol.ai] Disclaimer [https://bit.ly/PodcastDisclaimer]