The Messy Truth about Indie Podcasting & Burnout with Guest Interviewer Taina Brown

The Messy Truth about Indie Podcasting & Burnout with Guest Interviewer Taina Brown

What happens when the host gets interviewed? In this special episode, Nicole hands the mic to friend, coaching colleague, and Messy Liberation podcast co-host Taina Brown — and the result is one of the most honest, wide-ranging conversations yet. From the behind-the-scenes chaos of launching a podcast to the theological roots of rest as resistance, Nicole opens up about what she's learned, what's surprised her, and what's coming next for Just Rest and for her own life. If you've ever wondered what a burnout coach actually believes about rest — and whether she walks her own talk — this one's for you. What we talked about in this episode: * What it actually felt like to finally launch a podcast years in the making * The messy, imperfect reality of building workflows behind the scenes * Why irregular release cadence hasn't hurt the show * How guests have expanded Nicole's own understanding of burnout * The surprising double-edged sword of doing work you're passionate about * The role of COVID in reshaping how people think about work and burnout * How Nicole's background as a clergy person and interfaith practitioner informs her approach to rest * Rest practices Nicole has adopted — or deepened — from her guests * Why burnout is not a personal failure — it's a systemic one * The invisible labor carried by people socialized as women and how it compounds burnout * Why you cannot productivity hack your way out of exhaustion * Nicole's Friday screen-free practice and the joy of staring out a window while it snows * What's coming in Season 2 * Nicole's upcoming year of nomadic living — and why she's doing it Organization(s) doing good in the world: New American Welcome Center (Champaign-Urbana): https://nawc.universityymca.org/ Amica Center for Immigrant Rights: https://amicacenter.org [https://amicacenter.org] Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Just Rest and Taina Brown 04:27 Grounding breath 05:26 The Journey of Podcasting: From Idea to Reality 08:54 The Messy Start to Just Rest 13:40 Letting Go of Perfectionism in Podcasting 17:39 Expanding Ideas about Burnout 19:53 The Dual Nature of Passion: A Double-Edged Sword 22:21 Theological Perspectives on Burnout and Rest 25:29 The Radical Nature of Rest 30:38 Seasonal Rhythms and Personal Practices 36:25 Understanding Burnout: It's Not Your Fault 42:44 Naming Priorities in Planning 45:14 The Weight of Perfectionism 47:43 Embracing Rest in Nature 50:58 Supporting Immigrant Rights Groups 52:46 Plans for the Pod and Nomadic Living CONNECT WITH GUEST INTERVIEWER TAINA BROWN: Website: https://www.ifthenand.org/ Messy Liberation Podcast: https://messyliberation.com/ CONNECT WITH NICOLE HAVELKA Newsletter [https://defythetrend.substack.com/] LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-havelka-35762022/] Work with Nicole [https://defythetrend.com/contact/] The Calm Calendar Club is a brain-friendly planning community for neurodivergent adults, ADHD minds, and sandwich-generation caregivers who are tired of systems that don’t fit real life. We help you build a flexible, values-based calendar that reduces chaos and protects your energy. This low-cost, community-based program is ready for you at defythetrend.com/calm-calendar. Thank you to the people who helped make this show happen. Send me a message via Speakpipe [https://www.speakpipe.com/JustRest]. A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective [https://feministpodcasterscollective.com/].

Grounding in Joy: Choosing Rest, Faith, and Radical Purpose with Anna DeShawn

What does it look like to stay in the fight — week after week, story after story — without losing yourself in the process? In this episode, Nicole sits down with Anna DeShawn, founder of E3 Radio and The Qube, and host of the Ambie Award-winning Queer News podcast, for a rich conversation about burnout, joy as a practice, faith as a foundation, and what it really means to build something that sustains you. Anna's journey from corporate burnout to full-time entrepreneur and queer media powerhouse is a case study in trusting the pivot — and in taking care of yourself first so you can keep advocating for your community. In this episode: * How COVID pushed Anna from corporate burnout to full-time entrepreneurship * What it felt like to relearn how to work on her own terms * The sacred meditation corner in Anna's home that grounds her before every episode of Queer News * Why reporting the good news is just as important as bearing witness to the hard stuff * The difference between battles and wars — and why showing up matters even when you lose a round * Anna's deeply rooted faith background (Black Lutheran and Baptist — yes, both) * Joy as a choice and a commitment — and why Anna quits the moment joy leaves * The new relaunch of The Qube: building the largest searchable database of Black and Brown podcasts, and why discoverability is an equity issue * Why podcasters are the storytellers and public record-keepers of our time Organizations you should support: * Affinity Community Services — serving Black queer women on the South Side of Chicago for 30 years. affinitycommunityservices.org [https://affinitycommunityservices.org] * Sisters in Cinema — a nonprofit supporting Black women, girls, and gender-expansive media makers with free programming and a 35-seat brick-and-mortar theater on the South Side. https://sistersincinema.comsistersincinema.com [http://sistersincinema.com] P.S. Become part of the joy in Anna’s new community on Substack [https://queernewspod.substack.com]! CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Just Rest and Anna Deshawn 02:45 Moment for a Deep Breath 03:55 Burnout, Leaving Corporate American in COVID 06:33 Redefining Work and Success 09:34 Wellbeing in Entrepreneurship 12:07 Authenticity in Podcast 17:14 Staying Grounded Amidst the Bad News 19:37 Seeing the Big Picture in Activism 20:47 Faith and Identity in Activism 26:33 The Intersection of Faith and Identity 28:03 Faith and the Podcasting Journey 30:51 Letting Go of Control in the Journey 32:19 The Importance of Self-Care 34:09 Finding Joy in Work 39:01 Relaunching The Cube 42:55 Creating Access in Podcasting 44:51 Ways to Rest and Resist 49:41 Dear Rest Rebels 50:22 Highlighting Organizations Doing Good in the World CONNECT WITH ANNA DESHAWN Website:https://e3radio.fm Substack:https://queernewspod.substack.com [https://queernewspod.substack.com] Instagram:https://instagram.com/annadeshawn Facebook: https://facebook.com/annadeshawn LinkedIn:https://linkedin.com/in/annadeshawn CONNECT WITH NICOLE HAVELKA: Newsletter [https://defythetrend.substack.com/] LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-havelka-35762022/] Work with Nicole [https://defythetrend.com/contact/] The Calm Calendar Club is a brain-friendly planning community for neurodivergent adults, ADHD minds, and sandwich-generation caregivers who are tired of systems that don’t fit real life. We help you build a flexible, values-based calendar that reduces chaos and protects your energy. This low-cost, community-based program is ready for you at defythetrend.com/calm-calendar. Thank you to the people who helped make this show happen. Send me a message via Speakpipe [https://www.speakpipe.com/JustRest]. A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective [https://feministpodcasterscollective.com/].

Built on Purpose, Running on Empty: Values, Burnout, and the Theology of Hard Times with Catharine Montgomery

What happens when the mission that fuels you becomes the thing that depletes you? In this episode, Nicole sits down with Catharine Montgomery, founder of The Better Together Agency, a communications firm built to amplify organizations doing good in the world. Catharine has rebuilt her business — and herself — more than once, and she doesn't hold back about what that actually costs. This is a wide-ranging conversation about purpose-driven entrepreneurship, the burnout that hides inside your passion, and what faith traditions have always known about rest that hustle culture refuses to teach us. If you're a values-driven founder, a woman of faith navigating hard seasons, or someone who has quietly wondered whether your sense of purpose is sustaining you or slowly burning you out — this episode is for you. Here's what's in the episode: * What it really looks like to build a business around your values * The shadow side of purpose-driven work: how caring deeply can quietly become the reason you stop taking care of yourself * Bias in AI, and why Catharine built her own tool * The theology of hard times: does God have a plan, does it have to be detailed, and what do you do when you've stopped believing it? * Simple, unglamorous rest practices that are actually working for her right now Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Just Rest and Catharine Montgomery 02:09 Taking a Deep Breath 03:17 Catharine's Burnout Stories 05:13 The Birth of Better Together Agency 08:37 Navigating Racism and Burnout 11:20 Building in Everyday Self-Care 14:23 Spirituality and Personal Growth 16:57 The Nature of Divine Planning 19:19 Understanding Suffering and Divine Presence 21:49 Evolving Values-Alignment in the Second Start-Up 24:37 Navigating Change and Maintaining Mission 28:48 Innovating with AI for Social Good 32:50 Addressing Bias in AI Technology 35:28 The Impact of AI on Racial Wealth Gap 37:42 Perfectionism and Its Challenges 41:08 Balancing Passion and Burnout 44:31 The Importance of Rest and Creativity 48:47 Highlighting Positive Change: Red Rabbit CONNECT WITH CATHARINE MONTGOMERY: Website: https://thebettertogetheragency.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cnmontgomery [https://www.linkedin.com/in/cnmontgomery] The Better Together Agency on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebettertogetheragency Organization highlighted: Red Rabbit — providing culturally relevant meals to children in schools across New York, Philadelphia, and Washington, DC. redrabbitlunch.com CONNECT WITH NICOLE HAVELKA: Newsletter: https://defythetrend.substack.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-havelka-35762022/ Work with Nicole: https://defythetrend.com/contact/ The Calm Calendar Club is a brain-friendly planning community for neurodivergent adults, ADHD minds, and sandwich-generation caregivers who are tired of systems that don’t fit real life. We help you build a flexible, values-based calendar that reduces chaos and protects your energy. This low-cost, community-based program is ready for you at defythetrend.com/calm-calendar. Thank you to the people who helped make this show happen. Send me a message via Speakpipe [https://www.speakpipe.com/JustRest]. A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective [https://feministpodcasterscollective.com/].

Business Advice Is Burning You Out. There's Another Way

What if the way you've been told to run your business was never designed for you? Nicole sits down with feminist business coach, podcast host and author Becky Mollenkamp to unpack the capitalist conditioning most entrepreneurs carry without realizing it. They trace the through-line from toxic corporate workplaces to the inner boss we recreate in our own businesses, and ask the question that changes everything: what's enough for you? Becky's new book, Liberate Your Business: A Radical Guide for Entrepreneurs Building Inside a Broken System [http://beckymollenkamp.com/book], is the resource she wishes she'd had — one that honors the full complexity of building a values-aligned business inside a system that wasn't built for your humanity. What's in the Show * Becky's burnout story — rooted in emotional exhaustion, not overwork * Why capitalist conditioning follows you into your own business * The Hedonic Treadmill and why capitalism keeps moving the finish line * Defining your own "enough" in money, hours, rest, and joy * Consent-based marketing as an alternative to high-volume launch sequences * How Becky used AI to finally write the book her ADHD brain couldn't organize alone * Community-building as resistance — and embroidery as rest * Becky lifts up: Transgender Law Center (transgenderlawcenter.org) Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Rest and Burnout 03:13 Becky's Journey with Burnout 08:58 Corporate Culture and Expectations of Creativity 12:04 The Cost of Doing Business: Burnout as Normal 15:03 Values and Rest: A Personal Reflection 17:03 Becky's Spiritual Grounding: Values-based living 21:02 Agency and Control in Our Lives 22:29 Bringing Capitalism into our work and businesses 31:04 Navigating Capitalism as Entrepreneurs 40:45 Rethinking Commerce and Relationships 43:35 Redefining Enough in a Capitalist Society 47:09 The Hedonic Treadmill and Its Impact on Happiness 49:29 The Privilege of Safety and Security 50:47 Finding Rest in a Demanding World 52:55 Building Community as Resistance 55:40 Empowering Rest Rebels 59:31 Supporting Trans Rights and Advocacy 01:00:16 Connecting with Becky and Her Work Sources Mentioned * Liberate Your Business by Becky Mollenkamp — available at beckymollenkamp.com/book [http://beckymollenkamp.com/book] * Kelly Diels — feminist marketing educator, featured in Liberate Your Business https://kellydiels.com/ [https://kellydiels.com/] * Transgender Law Center — transgenderlawcenter.org [https://transgenderlawcenter.org] CONNECT WITH BECKY MOLLENKAMP * Website: beckymollenkamp.com * Threads: https://threads.com/@beckymollenkamp * Substack: https://feministrants.substack.com/ * LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/beckymollenkamp CONNECT WITH NICOLE HAVELKA: Newsletter [https://defythetrend.substack.com/] LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-havelka-35762022/] Work with Nicole [https://defythetrend.com/contact/] The Calm Calendar Club is a brain-friendly planning community for neurodivergent adults, ADHD minds, and sandwich-generation caregivers who are tired of systems that don’t fit real life. We help you build a flexible, values-based calendar that reduces chaos and protects your energy. This low-cost, community-based program is ready for you at defythetrend.com/calm-calendar. Thank you to the people who helped make this show happen. Send me a message via Speakpipe [https://www.speakpipe.com/JustRest]. A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective [https://feministpodcasterscollective.com/].

Grounding Reproductive Justice in Rest: Mutual Aid, Reproductive Freedom and Faith with Elaina Ramsey

What does faith have to do with reproductive justice — and what does either have to do with rest? Everything, it turns out. Nicole sits down with Elaina Ramsey, Executive Director of FaithChoice Ohio, an organization that elevates the moral power of faith communities for abortion justice and reproductive freedom in Ohio and beyond. Elaina shares her journey from fundamentalist evangelical to pro-faith, pro-choice advocate, and how that transformation shaped her understanding of bodily autonomy, mutual aid, and rest as a deeply spiritual practice. Whether you're navigating burnout in movement work or simply trying to stay human while doing hard things in the world, this episode is for you. In this episode you'll hear: * Elaina's journey from fundamentalist evangelical to pro-choice Christian reproductive justice advocate * How a traumatic experience in college cracked open her thinking about bodily autonomy and led her to this work * The difference between reproductive health care, reproductive rights and the broader reproductive justice framework — and why it matters * How FaithChoice Ohio builds rest, grief and mutual aid into their organizational culture as a lived value * Giving practical support for people accessing abortion care in Ohio including through the Jubilee Fund * A "Dear Rest Rebels" message: what you freely give others — permission to rest, grieve and be human — is also a gift you can give yourself Chapters List 00:00 Introduction to Change Makers and Rest 03:25 Time for a Deep Breath 04:33 Elaina's Journey from Evangelicalism to Advocacy 10:45 Outgrowing Evangelicalism is a lot like Burning Out 12:28 The Shift to Reproductive Justice 18:30 Christian Grounding for Rest 23:20 Grief, Lament, and Community Care 28:18 Creating a Culture of Rest in Organizations 31:18 Navigating Expectations in Nonprofit Work 35:01 Understanding Reproductive Justice 42:00 The Broader Implications of Reproductive Justice 44:56 Community Care and Mutual Aid 51:18 Empowering Rest and Self-Care 51:42 Dear Rest Rebels 53:33 Support FaithChoice Ohio 57:18 How to Find FaithChoice Ohio CONNECT WITH ELAINA RAMSEY & FAITHCHOICE OHIO * Website: faithchoiceohio.org * Instagram: @FaithChoiceOhio * Facebook: @FaithChoiceOhio * Podcast: R-Soul https://www.faithchoiceohio.org/podcast CONNECT WITH NICOLE HAVELKA: Newsletter [https://defythetrend.substack.com/] LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-havelka-35762022/] Work with Nicole [https://defythetrend.com/contact/] The Calm Calendar Club is a brain-friendly planning community for neurodivergent adults, ADHD minds, and sandwich-generation caregivers who are tired of systems that don’t fit real life. We help you build a flexible, values-based calendar that reduces chaos and protects your energy. This low-cost, community-based program is ready for you at defythetrend.com/calm-calendar. Thank you to the people who helped make this show happen. Send me a message via Speakpipe [https://www.speakpipe.com/JustRest]. A proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective [https://feministpodcasterscollective.com/].