Out of the Pulpit and Into the Pain: The Hidden Weight of Leading in Ministry

Out of the Pulpit and Into the Pain: The Hidden Weight of Leading in Ministry

In this conversation, Dr. Nick Bank and Jared Kliewer—founder of Presence Ministries (www.Presence-Ministries.org)—explore the hidden emotional and spiritual cost of long-term ministry leadership, especially the quiet collapse that often goes unseen behind the pulpit. Jared shares his personal journey through COVID-era leadership strain, the loss of a co-pastor, anxiety on stage, and his eventual transition out of staff ministry into founding Presence Ministries, a nonprofit dedicated to caring for weary and wounded ministry leaders. Together, they unpack several core dynamics shaping pastoral formation and breakdown: The pastoral isolation cycle, where leaders feel unable to safely disclose struggles. 1. Performance-driven identity rooted in unresolved attachment wounds. 2. Distorted images of God as an harsh evaluator rather than a delighting presence. 3. The danger of conflating vocation with identity and becoming dependent on being needed.  The episode also highlights practical pathways toward healing, including contemplative journaling, relational safety, and the presence-centered framework influenced by Dr. Curt Thompson, where vulnerability, attuned presence, and the presence of Jesus converge in healing. Nick also references formative voices and communities shaping this conversation, including his book Down Like Jesus, the Kineo Institute, Standing Stone Ministry, and Dr. Geoff and Cyd Holsclaw’s work. *Jared's Presence-Ministries: https://www.Presence-Ministries.org  *Dr. Bank's Book: Down Like Jesus: https://a.co/d/0dW4xa89  *Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com *Kineo Center's Free Burnout Quiz: https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/686eba2f783d5700154ef51b [https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/686eba2f783d5700154ef51b] *Standing Stone Ministry: https://standingstoneministry.org *Cyd Holsclaw: https://www.cydholsclaw.com *Attaching to God (Geoff & Cyd Holsclaw): https://www.attachingtogod.com *InterVarsity Press author page for Geoff Holsclaw: https://www.ivpress.com/geoff-holsclaw Support the show www.StepUpToLife.com Support the show [https://www.stepuptolife.com/give] www.StepUpToLife.com

From Text to Transformation: What Makes a Sermon Actually Work

In this episode of Ministry Minded, Dr. Nick Bank and SUTL Executive Director Lincoln Murdoch are joined by Step Up To Life’s newest team member, Alex Daum, to talk about what actually makes a sermon effective. With over 40 years of preaching experience as a pastor, missionary, and church planter, Lincoln reflects on a lifetime of communicating God’s Word. Alex brings a decade of experience preaching to middle and high school students in audiences ranging from 100 to 1,000, while Dr. Bank shares insights shaped by decades in pastoral ministry and his doctoral work in Advanced Biblical Preaching. Together, they tackle questions every pastor and Bible teacher should be asking: * What makes a sermon “good”—biblically and practically? * How can we interpret Scripture responsibly without losing clarity? * Why did Jesus rely so heavily on stories, and what can we learn from that? * Why do so many sermons fail to stick—and how can we preach so people actually remember and apply God’s Word? If you’ve ever wondered why people struggle to retain or live out what they hear on Sunday, this conversation will challenge and equip you to preach with greater clarity, faithfulness, and lasting impact. Support the show [https://www.stepuptolife.com/give] www.StepUpToLife.com

Why Gen Z Is Spiritually Hungry And What the Church Must Do Next

In this episode of Ministry Minded, hosts Nick Bank and Lincoln Murdoch (briefly, from bed post-surgery) introduce a major development within Step Up To Life: the appointment of Alex Daum as U.S. National Director of Youth Evangelism and Strategic Partnerships. Alex brings over a decade of frontline ministry experience with the Todd Becker Foundation—engaging public high schools, discipling gap-year students, and leading thousands of one-on-one gospel conversations across the Midwest. But his story begins much earlier—with a hidden life of sin, a crisis of eternity, and a moment of deep conviction that led to true repentance and saving faith. This episode is more than an announcement. It’s a window into a growing burden: -Why Gen Z is more spiritually open than we think -The evangelism gap in modern youth ministry -How apologetics and gospel clarity must work together -Why most believers don’t share their faith—and how to change that -A bold new initiative: the Step Up To Life Ambassadors Program Together, Nick and Alex unpack a vision to equip young believers not just to know their faith—but to articulate and multiply it. This isn’t about replacing existing ministries—it’s about refining them. Strengthening them. Igniting a culture where students move from passive belief to active disciple-making. You’ll also hear: -A powerful testimony of transformation from pornography and spiritual apathy to radical obedience -Real stories of students confidently defending the faith in everyday conversations -Insights into building resilient, gospel-centered leaders in a hostile and confused culture -Why fear—not theology—is the biggest barrier to evangelism -How God often leads step-by-step, not all at once This is a conversation for pastors, youth leaders, parents, and anyone burdened for the next generation. Because the question isn’t whether young people are searching. It’s whether the Church is ready to meet them with truth in a way they find compassionate and compelling. 🔑 Key Topics & Timestamps (Optional Add-On for YouTube/SEO) (00:00) Major Announcement: New Role at Step Up To Life (05:00) Alex Daum’s Testimony: From Sin to Saving Faith (15:00) Inside the Todd Becker Foundation Model (25:00) Why Gen Z Is Spiritually Open Right Now (35:00) The Vision: Step Up To Life Ambassadors Program (45:00) Apologetics + Evangelism: A Missing Link (55:00) Real Story: A Teen Defends the Faith at Work (1:05:00) The Future of Youth Discipleship Support the show [https://www.stepuptolife.com/give] www.StepUpToLife.com

Global Momentum & Ministry Updates

In this episode of Ministry-Minded, Nick and Lincoln reflect on a remarkable season of global ministry—spanning continents, cultures, and contexts—yet marked by a shared hunger for one thing: a clear, biblical gospel. Fresh off the Asia Summit in Bali, they recount powerful, firsthand stories of transformation—from unlikely leaders in hostile environments to pastors shaped through suffering and perseverance. These accounts don’t just inspire—they raise deeper questions about what true conversion really looks like. A striking theme emerges: across the world, many are beginning to recognize the difference between superficial responses and genuine saving faith. That same realization is now surfacing closer to home, with unexpected responses from students and church communities alike. As the conversation unfolds, Nick and Lincoln also share how new tools and training are helping equip believers to engage in clearer, more faithful gospel conversations—both locally and globally. This episode is both sobering and hopeful: a reminder that the gospel must be clear, and that real transformation still changes everything. Support the show [https://www.stepuptolife.com/give] www.StepUpToLife.com

Broadcasting from Bali: SUTL’s 2026 Asia Summit

In this episode, we sit down with several of our Step Up To Life champions from across Asia—pastors serving in Pakistan, Myanmar, India, Singapore, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Japan. Through a series of honest, hope-filled conversations, they share how they continue to press forward in ministry amid persecution and ongoing financial challenges, while faithfully bringing the gospel into prisons, their local communities, and school children. You’ll hear how they are using Step Up To Life as a simple, powerful tool to communicate the gospel more clearly and effectively within their own cultures and networks. As you listen, we invite you to join us in praying for a smooth, fruitful season of ministry as these leaders return home and multiply what God is doing through them. Support the show: www.StepUpToLife.com/give  https://youtu.be/oFhq-9ucRSc?si=x7LMx8gNoxMIarNJ Support the show [https://www.stepuptolife.com/give] www.StepUpToLife.com