To Preserve or to Repurpose?

Building What You Believe

What happens when faith doesn’t stay personal but becomes the foundation for how you build, invest, and lead? Amber and Tom explore faith-based entrepreneurship through three distinct voices, each integrating spiritual conviction into their real-world work. Tim Busch shares how his Catholic faith shaped a model of principled entrepreneurship grounded in dignity, care for his employees, and building literal chapels in his hotels, where priests are invited to stay for free. Jenna Nicholas, inspired by the Bahá’í faith, brings a long-term, values-driven lens to investing – where profit and purpose are not at odds. And Eboo Patel reflects on building an institution rooted in pluralism, drawing inspiration from the Prophet Muhammad’s example of market-building as an act of community-building. Across traditions and sectors, a shared thread emerges: faith is not just a personal belief – it’s a blueprint for action. These conversations offer a look at how spiritual values can shape not only what we believe but what we build. About the Guests: Tim Busch is a businessman, lawyer, and Catholic philanthropist. Learn more about his projects with the Napa Institute [https://napa-institute.org] and the Pacific Hospitality Group [https://www.pacifichospitality.com]. Jenna Nicholas is an investor, entrepreneur, advisor, author, coach, and speaker. Find Jenna on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennanicholas/], Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/jennanicholas1/?hl=en], and on her website [https://www.jenna-nicholas.com]. Recognized as “one of America’s best leaders” by U.S. News and World Report, Eboo Patel [https://www.interfaithamerica.org/people/eboo-patel/] is the Founder and President of Interfaith America, the nation’s leading interfaith organization. For more episodes and info, visit Money, Meet Meaning [http://religionnews.com/money-meet-meaning]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]

To Preserve or to Repurpose?

After their conversation with Amy Butler, Amber and Tom turn to an emotionally charged question facing many faith communities today: Is it more faithful to preserve a dying congregation – or to repurpose its financial assets for new life? They explore what’s really at stake when institutions decline: not just budgets and buildings, but memory, identity, and the stories held in stained glass, pews, and potluck halls. Drawing on personal stories from their own lives, listener responses, and Pastor Amy’s idea of “holy disruption,” Amber and Tom wrestle with whether closure can sometimes be an act of faith, rather than failure. Along the way, they imagine creative alternatives – shared spaces, affordable housing, selling air rights, renting during the week – that honor both sacred history and present-day needs. It’s a thoughtful conversation about grief, stewardship, and what it means to believe in resurrection – not just preservation. For more episodes and info, visit Money, Meet Meaning [http://religionnews.com/money-meet-meaning]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]

Sacred Assets, Tough Decisions

Many of us were taught an unspoken deal: live faithfully, do the right things, and life will work out. In this episode, Amber and Tom gently - but firmly - challenge that transactional model of faith and money with Amy Butler, a pastor, author, and founder of Invested Faith. Amy shares how her own ministry journey exposed the limits of “cosmic vending machine” theology – and why she believes faith communities are called to something deeper: interdependence. Drawing from her books Beautiful and Terrible Things and Holy Disruption, she explores how churches can move beyond scarcity thinking and creatively repurpose their assets to fund social enterprises that challenge unjust systems.  Along the way, the conversation gets refreshingly practical: why pastors need balance sheets, not just Bible studies; why financial literacy is a form of pastoral care; and why closing or transforming institutions can be holy work. It’s a hopeful, grounded look at how faith communities can steward money, power, and privilege with courage, imagination, and a little disruption. About Pastor Amy Butler: * Pastor Amy Butler has led some of the most iconic pulpits in America, including becoming the first woman to lead New York's Riverside Church. She's a writer, community builder, and founder of Invested Faith [https://www.investedfaith.org/], a movement helping congregations use their aging assets to fund the work of faith-rooted social entrepreneurs building businesses that are changing unjust systems. * Amy’s Books [https://www.pastoramy.com/books]:  * Beautiful and Terrible Things * Holy Disruption (co-authored with Dawn Darwin Weaks) For more episodes and info, visit Money, Meet Meaning [http://religionnews.com/money-meet-meaning]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]

Effort, Surrender, and the Money in Between

After their conversation with Amjad Quadri, Amber and Tom turn to a deeper question beneath financial decision-making: What is actually in our control, and what do we need to let go of? Drawing on the islamic concept of rizq – the idea that our provision is ultimately in God’s hands – they explore the tension between effort and surrender in everyday financial life. From saving for retirement to pursuing a calling, managing debt, or stepping back from work, they wrestle with how to act responsibly without becoming consumed by outcomes. Amber connects the conversation to the idea of “solving for peace,” while Tom reflects on the wisdom of focusing on inputs rather than results. Along the way, real-life scenarios bring the tension into focus, and ancient wisdom – including the Serenity Prayer – offers a way through it. It’s a thoughtful guide to making financial decisions with intention, trust, and a little more peace of mind. For more episodes and info, visit Money, Meet Meaning [http://religionnews.com/money-meet-meaning]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]

What Makes an Investment Halal?

What does it mean to invest in a way that aligns with your deepest beliefs? In this episode, Tom and Amber explore the principles of halal investing with Amjad Quadri, who works at the intersection of faith and finance. Amjad explains how Islamic investing avoids “sin stocks” like alcohol, gambling, and interest-based lending – and how it’s guided by both spiritual principles and practical financial frameworks. From navigating homeownership without traditional mortgages to understanding gratitude and trust through a faith lens, he offers a window into a system that is both disciplined and deeply values-driven. The conversation reveals a broader appeal, with many non-Muslim investors drawn to the approach. The episode wraps with a lively “Halal or Not at All?” segment, putting real-world financial dilemmas to the test. The conversation is a thoughtful look at what it means to invest with intention, regardless of your specific spiritual beliefs. About Amjad Quadri: Amjad M. Quadri joined the Chicago office of Saturna Capital in June 2015. As a Regional Manager, he brings experience in Islamic banking, including business and product development. You can find Amjad on LinkedIn [http://linkedin.com/in/amjad-quadri-b879141]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices [https://megaphone.fm/adchoices]