AI Job Loss Is Real. The Catastrophe Is Optional (with Kathryn Edwards)

AI Job Loss Is Real. The Catastrophe Is Optional (with Kathryn Edwards)

AI doomsdayers want us to believe mass job loss would be unprecedented. But Kathryn Anne Edwards has a sharp reminder: In the first five weeks of the pandemic, the U.S. economy shed 22.5 million jobs—larger than any single AI job-loss estimate she has seen. The difference was policy. Unemployment support, direct cash to families, and a strong public response helped workers survive the shock and helped the labor market recover. This week, Nick and Paul talk with Edwards about what the pandemic recovery can teach us about AI, automation, unemployment, and the future of work. Why do AI debates so often treat workers as passive victims and government as irrelevant? What would a serious policy response to technological disruption look like? And why should we be skeptical of billionaires and tech leaders who insist that this time, unlike every other economic transition, they are uniquely important and special? Kathryn Anne Edwards is a labor economist, independent policy consultant, Bloomberg Opinion columnist, economics influencer, and co-host of the Optimist Economy [https://optimisteconomy.com/] podcast.  Social Media: Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/keds_economist/] Threads [https://www.threads.com/@keds_economist?xmt=AQGzkSDY1R9CFy_AN6yJ2i9-T4XAPIuk1_QXxugjV79Ykbg] TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@keds_economist]  Bluesky [https://bsky.app/profile/kedseconomist.com]  Twitter [https://x.com/keds_economist] Further reading:  Optimist Economy Podcast [https://pod.link/1802625282] Bloomberg Opinion - AI Can Lead to a Fix of This Broken Government Program [https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2026-05-11/is-ai-coming-for-your-job-a-new-unemployment-system-would-help] Bloomberg Opinion - Is AI Coming for Your Job? A Bigger Government Can Help [https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2026-05-12/ai-job-loss-will-demand-better-long-term-unemployment-system] Bloomberg Opinion -  AI Anxiety Won’t Be Eased by Universal Basic Income [https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2026-05-13/is-ai-coming-for-your-job-even-if-it-is-ubi-is-not-the-answer] Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com [http://pitchforkeconomics.com/] Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast [https://www.facebook.com/pitchforkeconomics] Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social] Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.instagram.com/pitchforkeconomics/?hl=en] Threads: pitchforkeconomics [https://www.threads.net/@pitchforkeconomics] TikTok: @pitchfork_econ [https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchfork_econ] YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.youtube.com/@pitchforkeconomics] LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics [https://www.linkedin.com/company/pitchfork-economics/] Twitter: @PitchforkEcon [https://twitter.com/PitchforkEcon], @NickHanauer [https://twitter.com/nickhanauer?lang=en] Substack: The Pitch [https://civicventures.substack.com/]

The Policy Choices That Suppressed American Wages (with Josh Bivens and Larry Mishel)

Why have wages for working Americans stagnated for decades—even as productivity, corporate profits, and the wealth of the people at the top continued to rise? The mainstream explanations are familiar: automation, globalization, education, or simply the unavoidable forces of the market—but wage stagnation was not inevitable. It was the result of policy choices. This week, we’re revisiting a conversation with economists Lawrence Mishel and Josh Bivens about the decisions that reshaped the American economy, weakened worker bargaining power, and made it harder for working people to claim their share of the prosperity they helped create. As we continue sharing more about Market Humanism—the idea that markets are human-built systems shaped by rules and power—this conversation feels especially relevant. The economy we have did not emerge naturally. It was built. And that means it can be rebuilt. This episode originally aired on June 1, 2021. [https://pitchforkeconomics.com/episode/how-u-s-policy-was-designed-to-suppress-wages-with-larry-mishel-and-josh-bivens/] Josh Bivens is the chief economist at the Economic Policy Institute. His research focuses on macroeconomics, inequality, social insurance, public investment, and the economics of globalization. Larry Mishel is a distinguished fellow and former president of the Economic Policy Institute. His research focuses on labor economics, wages and income distribution, industrial relations, productivity growth, and the economics of education. Social Media: @joshbivens-econ.bsky.social [http://@joshbivens-econ.bsky.social] @joshbivens_DC [https://x.com/joshbivens_DC] @larrymishel.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/larrymishel.bsky.social] @LarryMishel [https://x.com/LarryMishel] Watch Nick on The Diary of a CEO Nick recently joined Steven Bartlett and entrepreneur Daniel Priestley for a wide-ranging debate about the wealth divide, stagnant wages, artificial intelligence, and whether capitalism can still deliver broadly shared prosperity. Watch the conversation on The Diary of a CEO. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLBsHXNEwAU] Further reading ⬇️ Economic Policy Institute: Identifying the Policy Levers Generating Wage Suppression and Wage Inequality [https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/publications/wage-suppression-inequality/] Economic Policy Institute: The Productivity–Pay Gap [https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/] Economic Policy Institute: Wage Calculator: How Much More Would You Be Making If Pay Had Kept Pace With Productivity? [https://www.epi.org/resources/wage-calculator/] Roosevelt Institute: Democratic Abundance: An Abundance That Works for Workers [https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/democratic-abundance/] Roosevelt Institute: From Safety Net to Power Base: Reimagining, Not Restoring, the US Antipoverty System [https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/from-safety-net-to-power-base/] Markets Built for Humans: A Guide for Policy Professionals to the New Economics [https://www.marketsbuiltforhumans.org/] Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com [http://pitchforkeconomics.com/] Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast [https://www.facebook.com/pitchforkeconomics] Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social] Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.instagram.com/pitchforkeconomics/?hl=en] Threads: pitchforkeconomics [https://www.threads.net/@pitchforkeconomics] TikTok: @pitchfork_econ [https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchfork_econ] YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.youtube.com/@pitchforkeconomics] LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics [https://www.linkedin.com/company/pitchfork-economics/] Twitter: @PitchforkEcon [https://twitter.com/PitchforkEcon], @NickHanauer [https://twitter.com/nickhanauer?lang=en] Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠ [https://civicventures.substack.com/]

Market Humanism: A New Operating System for the Economy (with Nick Hanauer)

For the first time in Pitchfork Economics history, Nick Hanauer is on the other side of the mic. Goldy and Paul sit down with Nick to discuss Market Humanism: the emerging economic paradigm he and Eric Beinhocker believe can replace the trickle-down ideas that have shaped American policymaking for the past 50 years. Why have wages stagnated while inequality soared? Why does conventional economics treat policies that help ordinary people as threats to growth? And what changes when we recognize that markets are human-built institutions—not forces of nature? The conversation exposes the failures of the old economic model, how power shapes who gets what and why, and why a fairer economy is also a more prosperous one. Nick Hanauer is a Seattle-based entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and civic leader dedicated to building a more inclusive and sustainable economy. He is the founder of Civic Ventures, a public policy incubator, and co-host of the podcast Pitchfork Economics. A leading voice for “middle-out” economics, his commentary has appeared in The Atlantic, Politico, Bloomberg, and The New York Times. He is the author of The Gardens of Democracy [https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781570618239] , The True Patriot [https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781570618703], and a frequent advocate for policies that put working people at the center of economic growth. Social Media: @nickhanauer.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/nickhanauer.bsky.social] @NickHanauer [https://x.com/NickHanauer] Further reading:  Democracy Journal - Market Humanism: A New Paradigm for a New Era [https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/market-humanism-a-new-paradigm-for-a-new-era/] The Atlantic - The Economic Experiment That Upended Reality [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/05/minimum-wage-experiment-worked/687255/?gift=2mkFWo0Lb42a5k5vH2nTfahGeQTmEa_8I9xlR4PEldM&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share] Markets Built for Humans - A Guide for Policy Professionals to the New Economics [https://www.marketsbuiltforhumans.org/] The Gardens of Democracy [https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781570618239] The True Patriot [https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781570618703] Corporate Bullsh*t: Exposing the Lies and Half-Truths That Protect Profit, Power, and Wealth in America [https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781620977514] Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com [http://pitchforkeconomics.com/] Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast [https://www.facebook.com/pitchforkeconomics] Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social] Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.instagram.com/pitchforkeconomics/?hl=en] Threads: pitchforkeconomics [https://www.threads.net/@pitchforkeconomics] TikTok: @pitchfork_econ [https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchfork_econ] YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.youtube.com/@pitchforkeconomics] LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics [https://www.linkedin.com/company/pitchfork-economics/] Twitter: @PitchforkEcon [https://twitter.com/PitchforkEcon], @NickHanauer [https://twitter.com/nickhanauer?lang=en] Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠ [https://civicventures.substack.com/]

What Comes After Neoliberalism? (with Nick Hanauer & Eric Beinhocker)

This week, we’re sharing a special episode from Washington Monthly featuring Pitchfork Economics co-host Nick Hanauer and Oxford professor Eric Beinhocker in conversation with Anne Kim about Market Humanism. For decades, American capitalism has been organized around efficiency, shareholder value, and the idea that prosperity naturally trickles down from the top. But as Nick and Eric explain, that story has failed on its own terms: inequality has exploded, workers have been squeezed, and democracy itself has become more fragile. In this conversation, they make the case for a new economic paradigm they call market humanism: the idea that markets should be built to solve human problems, strengthen democracy, and improve people’s lives—not simply maximize returns for owners of capital. If we want an economy that actually works, the question can’t be “How do we make markets more efficient for the wealthy?” It has to be: “How do we build markets that help people flourish?” Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com [http://pitchforkeconomics.com/] Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast [https://www.facebook.com/pitchforkeconomics] Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social] Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.instagram.com/pitchforkeconomics/?hl=en] Threads: pitchforkeconomics [https://www.threads.net/@pitchforkeconomics] TikTok: @pitchfork_econ [https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchfork_econ] YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.youtube.com/@pitchforkeconomics] LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics [https://www.linkedin.com/company/pitchfork-economics/] Twitter: @PitchforkEcon [https://twitter.com/PitchforkEcon], @NickHanauer [https://twitter.com/nickhanauer?lang=en] Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠ [https://civicventures.substack.com/]

The Worker Power Missing From the Abundance Debate (with Kate Andrias and Alexander Hertel-Fernandez)

Everyone wants more housing, more clean energy, more transit, more care infrastructure, and more of the things people need to live good lives. But too much of the “abundance” debate treats workers, unions, environmental review, and community voice as obstacles to building — instead of asking who has power, who benefits, and who gets left out. This week, Goldy and Paul talk with Columbia professors Kate Andrias and Alexander Hertel-Fernandez about their Roosevelt Institute report, Democratic Abundance: An Abundance That Works for Workers [https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/democratic-abundance/]. They argue that the problem isn’t too much democracy — it’s too little. If we want to build at the scale this moment demands, we need an abundance agenda that puts workers, communities, and democratic power at the center from the start. Kate Andrias is the Patricia D. and R. Paul Yetter Professor of Law at Columbia Law School, and serves as co-director of both the Columbia Law School Center for Constitutional Governance and the Columbia Labor Lab. Previously, she served as associate counsel and special assistant to President Barack Obama and as chief of staff in the White House Counsel’s Office. Alexander Hertel-Fernandez is an associate professor and vice dean at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs, and serves as co-director of the Columbia Labor Lab. From 2021 to 2023, he served as a deputy assistant secretary in the Department of Labor and a senior fellow in the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. Further reading:  Report: Democratic Abundance: An Abundance That Works for Workers [https://rooseveltinstitute.org/publications/democratic-abundance/] The American Political Economy: Politics, Markets, and Power [https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9781009014861] State Capture: How Conservative Activists, Big Businesses, and Wealthy Donors Reshaped the American States and the Nation [https://bookshop.org/a/101360/9780197564264] Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com [http://pitchforkeconomics.com/] Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast [https://www.facebook.com/pitchforkeconomics] Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social [https://bsky.app/profile/pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social] Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.instagram.com/pitchforkeconomics/?hl=en] Threads: pitchforkeconomics [https://www.threads.net/@pitchforkeconomics] TikTok: @pitchfork_econ [https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchfork_econ] YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics [https://www.youtube.com/@pitchforkeconomics] LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics [https://www.linkedin.com/company/pitchfork-economics/] Twitter: @PitchforkEcon [https://twitter.com/PitchforkEcon], @NickHanauer [https://twitter.com/nickhanauer?lang=en] Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠ [https://civicventures.substack.com/]