The Product Engineers Podcast
AI software development is changing software engineering forever, but most AI tools produce code that drifts, hallucinates, and needs constant rework. What if test-driven development, refactoring, and product engineering discipline could be baked into every AI-generated line of code? Michele Brissoni, Alessandro Di Gioia, and Marco Consolaro have a combined 60+ years of experience — from Ferrari Formula One to Fortune 500 DevOps transformations to writing the award-winning book on TDD. They built nWave to answer that question. --- GUESTS Michele Brissoni - Founder of BrickX Consulting, Fractional CTO, Host of Forge of Unicorns Podcast Michele has 20+ years in software engineering, starting with behavioural engineering at Ferrari F1 during the Schumacher era. He invented the Software Craftsmanship Dojo, led a DevOps transformation at IBM across 15,000 people, and has hosted 80+ episodes interviewing the people behind 52 unicorn companies. Alessandro Di Gioia - Software Craftsman, Technical Coach, Co-founder of Alcor Academy Alessandro co-authored "Agile Technical Practices Distilled" with Marco and Pedro Santos, a multi-award-winning book on TDD, refactoring, and software design. He's been teaching outside-in development at conferences like NDC, DDD Europe, and DevOps Days for years. He's the primary builder behind nWave's deterministic execution system. Marco Consolaro - Software Craftsman, Technical Coach, Co-founder of Alcor Academy Marco co-authored "Agile Technical Practices Distilled" and has spent years teaching software craftsmanship and TDD. He brings a focus on the human side of engineering — sustainable pace, team dynamics, and the importance of trust in building quality software. Find them: - nWave GitHub: https://github.com/nWave-ai [https://github.com/nWave-ai] - Michele's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelebrissoni [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelebrissoni] - Alessandro's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alessandro-di-gioia/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alessandro-di-gioia/] - Marco's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/consolaro/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/consolaro/] --- TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 03:00 The Origin Story: From Early AI Tools to nWave 08:03 The Career Lesson Behind nWave 10:17 Discuss nWave: Understanding What to Build and For Whom 26:16 Design nWave: Architecture with Adversarial Reviews 38:41 DevOps and Distill nWaves: CI/CD and Acceptance Tests Before Code 41:42 Deliver nWave: Outside-In TDD with Fresh Context Every Step 52:51 "Doesn't This Make You Slower?" — The Rework Argument 01:02:25 What Do You Do While nWave Is Working? 01:05:34 Closing and How to Contribute --- RESOURCES MENTIONED Link with all research material used to build nWave: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yvSDNwj-F1amEavoX3Qz4oRZfw-9XKF9/view [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yvSDNwj-F1amEavoX3Qz4oRZfw-9XKF9/view] --- CONNECT WITH PRODUCT ENGINEERS Host: Peppe Silletti LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peppesilletti/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/peppesilletti/] Product Engineers Community: Website: https://productengineers.com [https://productengineers.com] Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/4sMtRNSgU4 [https://discord.gg/4sMtRNSgU4] --- SUPPORT THE SHOW If this episode changed how you think about AI-assisted development, share it with an engineer or team lead who's struggling with AI code quality. Drop a comment below with your biggest takeaway. To hear more, visit podcast.productengineers.com [https://podcast.productengineers.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-spotify-open-access]
14 episodios
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