Ep. 040 | Attributes of a Next Level Church Leader

Ep. 047 | Does Your Building Help or Hurt Your Church Revitalization?

EPISODE 47: SHOW NOTES Hosts: Bart Blair (Director of Church Revitalization, Assist Church Expansion) & Nathan Bryant (Executive Director, Assist) 4 KEY TAKEAWAYS * Your church facility is a ministry tool, not the main thing. Culture change drives revitalization, but your building can either support that work or quietly work against it. * Decluttering costs nothing but time and a few hard conversations. Old storage rooms, outdated equipment, and decades of donated furniture send the wrong signal to new families. * Curb appeal, signage, and restrooms shape a guest’s opinion before they ever sit down for the service. First impressions start in the parking lot. * Decor should reflect your church’s future, not its past. Outdated photos, doilies, and dated furniture can quietly tell newcomers this isn’t a place for them. If you are leading a small church through plateau, decline, or revitalization, you already know there is never enough time or money to fix everything at once. So when it comes to your building, where do you actually focus? In this episode, Bart Blair sits down with Nathan Bryant, Executive Director of Assist Church Expansion, to talk through how your facility either helps or hurts your revitalization efforts, and how to make smart, low cost improvements without overspending or stepping on toes. You will walk away with a practical lens for evaluating your own building. From the parking lot to the restrooms to your children’s ministry space, you will learn what first time guests notice, what it communicates to them, and what you can change this month without a building campaign. DOES MY CHURCH BUILDING ACTUALLY AFFECT CHURCH GROWTH AND REVITALIZATION? Yes, but not in the way most pastors assume. Bart and Nathan are both church planters who spent years in portable, rented spaces, so they bring a unique perspective on this. Your building is a ministry tool that God has given you to steward, not the main driver of revitalization. The real change has to happen in the culture and mission of your church. But your facility either removes barriers for newcomers or creates them, which means it absolutely plays a supporting role in whether people stick around long enough to experience that culture change in the first place. WHY DO SMALL CHURCHES OVEREMPHASIZE OR UNDEREMPHASIZE THEIR FACILITY? Most churches land in one of two ditches. Some pastors believe a new coat of paint or a renovated lobby will single handedly turn the church around, so they pour disproportionate energy and money into the building. Others swing the opposite direction and barely notice their facility at all, because they have grown comfortable in the space over many years. Nathan compares it to having friends over to your house. You do not notice the mess until you know guests are coming. The goal is a healthy middle: invest where it actually removes barriers for guests, and do not pretend a building project will fix a culture problem. HOW DO I DECLUTTER MY CHURCH WITHOUT OFFENDING LONGTIME MEMBERS? Decluttering is the single highest impact, lowest cost change you can make to your facility, but it requires patience and permission. Many churches have rooms full of decades old equipment, holiday decor, and furniture that nobody is using, simply because no one felt authorized to get rid of it. Nathan shares a real example of a church that cleared out a room full of decades old Christmas pageant costumes after getting buy in from longtime members, freeing up usable classroom and office space. PRACTICAL STEPS FOR DECLUTTERING YOUR CHURCH BUILDING * Get permission first. Many longtime members simply do not realize they have authority to let things go. Ask before you act. * Make it a team event. Host a workday and get people hands on in the process. Ownership in the change builds pride in the result. * Ask the ROI question. If a room full of plastic plants or old electronics is not earning its square footage, it may be time to repurpose the space. * Donate rather than discard. Costumes, furniture, and equipment can often go to a local school or community organization, which softens the transition for longtime members. WHAT DOES CURB APPEAL COMMUNICATE TO FIRST TIME CHURCH GUESTS? Research consistently shows that a first time guest starts forming an opinion about your church before the service even begins. If your building gets drive by traffic, your landscaping, signage, and exterior lighting are doing more talking than you realize. Nathan compares it to walking into a nice restaurant and getting a glimpse of a dirty kitchen. Even people who are not naturally detail oriented will pick up on a building that feels tired or uncared for, and it can quietly become a reason they do not come back. LOW COST WAYS TO IMPROVE CURB APPEAL * Recruit a member with a great yard to help manage your church landscaping * Add clear, simple signage for parking and building entrances * Replace burned out exterior light bulbs and keep walkways clear * Use temporary signage like sandwich boards or flags if permanent signage is not in the budget yet WHY DO CHURCH RESTROOMS MATTER SO MUCH TO YOUNG FAMILIES? If you are trying to reach young families, your restrooms may matter more than your sound system or your stage lighting. Bart and Nathan both point to restrooms as one of the most overlooked spaces in church facilities, and one of the most important to young moms in particular. A dated, dim, or poorly maintained restroom can undo the goodwill built by a great worship service. The fix does not have to be expensive. Fresh paint in light colors, updated fixtures, and proper ventilation go a long way toward making the space feel modern and cared for. HOW DO I UPDATE MY CHURCH DECOR WITHOUT LOSING MY CHURCH’S HISTORY? This is one of the more sensitive conversations in church revitalization. Decor should reflect where your church is headed, not just where it has been. That does not mean erasing your history. Nathan shares an example of a church that gave the older generation one room to decorate however they wanted, and another church that created a dedicated honor wall telling the story of the church from its founding to today. Both approaches let a congregation celebrate its past without letting that past dominate every room a new guest walks into. Practical first steps include digitizing old missionary or anniversary photos instead of leaving them in frames on the wall, replacing outdated furniture that may have been donated from a member’s home, and inviting two or three young couples from your target demographic to walk through the building and share their honest first impressions. WHAT SHOULD A WELCOMING CHILDREN’S MINISTRY SPACE LOOK LIKE, EVEN WITH NO KIDS CURRENTLY ATTENDING? Your children’s ministry space is one of the clearest signals you can send to young families, even before they have a single child enrolled. If your nursery equipment, toys, and furnishings look like they have not been touched in years, that message comes through loud and clear. One church featured in this episode prioritized a small donation toward updating one restroom and their children’s space, and saw the payoff almost immediately when new families visited and felt comfortable bringing their kids back. Clean, safe, simple, and modern beats elaborate every time. Add a visible signal on the outside of the building, like a playground, so families know at a glance that kids are welcome. “We’re going to clean the house, we’re going to set the table, we’re going to bake the cake, and then we’re going to open the door.” Nathan Bryant, Episode 47 REFLECTION QUESTIONS FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP TEAM 1. Walk your building like a first time guest. What is the very first thing you notice when you pull into the parking lot? 2. Which rooms in your building have become storage rather than usable ministry space? 3. When was the last time someone outside your congregation gave honest feedback on your restrooms or children’s ministry space? 4. Does your decor reflect who you are becoming, or only who you have been? If this episode gave you a fresh way to look at your facility, share it with another pastor who is thinking through the same questions. Subscribe to the Revitalize My Church podcast for new episodes every 1st and 15th of the month, and visit revitalizemy.church [http://revitalizemy.church] for more articles, eBooks, and free assessment tools to help your church move toward a new and healthy future. CONNECT WITH US Don't miss future episodes! Subscribe to the Revitalize My Church podcast wherever you listen (Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc.) and leave a rating or review to help others discover the show. About the Revitalize My Church Podcast: Since summer 2024, we've been helping church leaders navigate change and reorient to healthy futures. Our goal isn't to make small churches big—it's to help churches revision, revitalize, or restart find solid footing and healthy systems.

Ep. 046 | Two Kinds of Struggling Churches

Most struggling churches assume they need the same kind of help. Terry Long says that assumption is one of the first things that has to go. Terry serves as the Church Health and Revitalization Strategist for the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina. He joined the state convention in April 2020, holds a doctorate of ministry in church revitalization from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and has spent two decades in vocational ministry. In this conversation with host Bart Blair, Terry walks through the framework NC Baptists uses to assess struggling churches, why revitalization and reconstruction require two completely different responses, and what pastors consistently get wrong when they come asking for help. WHAT YOU WILL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE • Why NC Baptists developed a ten-question church assessment, and what it is actually designed to do • The two categories struggling churches fall into: revitalization candidates and reconstruction candidates, and why treating them the same is a mistake • What NC Baptists looks for when assessing a church: missional engagement, discipleship health, leadership development, and baptism trends • Two real stories of NC Baptist churches that turned around, including a church of 30 senior adults that went from no pastor and no direction to 10 baptisms in a single Sunday • Why revitalization has to start with the pastor before it can start with the church • The statistic that stopped Terry cold early in his ministry: 92 percent of pastors have never been personally discipled • Why the come-and-see model of church no longer works, and what has to replace it • Why Terry believes the decline of cultural Christianity is not bad news for the church A KEY QUOTE FROM THIS EPISODE "I actually think this is a great thing. I know a Lord that said we're supposed to go and make disciples of all nations. I actually think this is the Lord refining his church to get back to do what we were supposed to do in the first place." -- Terry Long FOR THE PASTOR WHO IS LISTENING If your church has been plateaued or declining for years and you are not sure whether you need a coach, a partner church, or something else entirely, this episode will help you figure out which kind of help actually fits your situation. Terry breaks down the difference in plain terms and gives you a framework for thinking clearly about where your church is and what it needs next. And if you have been carrying the weight of a church that feels like it might be past the point of no return, the story of a 30-person church of senior adults who saw 10 baptisms six months into a turnaround process is worth hearing. RESOURCES MENTIONED • NC Baptists Church Revitalization: https://ncbaptist.org/ministries/church-revitalization • North American Mission Board Replant: https://www.namb.net/church-replanting/ • Reclaiming Glory by Mark Clifton • Embers to a Flame by Harry Reeder • Church revitalization resources by Tom Chaney, Orlando Baptists ABOUT REVITALIZE MY CHURCH Revitalize My Church is hosted by Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant. We create practical, biblically grounded content for pastors and church leaders who are navigating decline, plateau, and the hard work of leading a church toward health. New episodes release on the first and fifteenth of each month. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation was helpful, share it with a pastor who needs it. That is the best thing you can do to help more church leaders find this content. Visit us at revitalizemy.church

Ep. 045 | 6 Keys to Handling Resistance in a Church Revitalization - Part Two

Are you leading a church through revitalization and running into resistance at every turn? You are not alone. Resistance is one of the most common challenges pastors face when trying to move a church from where it is to where God wants it to be. The question is not whether you will face it. The question is whether you know how to handle it well. In Episode 45, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant cover keys 3 through 6 of their six-key framework for handling resistance in church revitalization. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE Key 3: Communicate the Vision Often and Clearly Vision is your most powerful tool for overcoming resistance. People do not want to be managed. They want to be inspired. Cast a compelling, biblically grounded vision that answers four questions: Why are we doing this? Who are we? What are we going to do? And where are we going? Bart and Nathan talk about why vision leaks, why repetition is leadership and not redundancy, and how to use testimonies and stories of life change to reinforce the vision you are casting. Key 4: Honor the Past While Moving Forward Most resistance in a church revitalization is tied to something with real historical significance. People are being asked to let go of something they have valued for years, sometimes decades. Bart and Nathan share practical ways to celebrate what God has done in the church's history, allow people to grieve what is changing, and become the kind of pastor who knows the church's story well enough to carry it forward with honor. The goal is to be married to the mission without being married to the methodology. Key 5: Know When to Push and When to Pause Pace and timing matter as much as direction. Going too fast causes people to fall off. Going too slow kills momentum and loses your window. Bart and Nathan talk about how to identify low-hanging fruit for early wins, how to build a team that can read the room, why a well-timed pause can actually accelerate change, and why squandering momentum is just as dangerous as moving too quickly. Key 6: Know When Resistance Has Become Conflict Not all resistance is the same, and the way you respond to pushback needs to change when resistance turns into conflict. Bart and Nathan walk through the red flags that signal the shift, including when people stop questioning a decision and start questioning your right to make it, and when individuals begin organizing others around their opposition rather than bringing concerns directly to leadership. When that happens, you need a different set of tools. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Episode 43: Keys 1 and 2 for Handling Resistance in Church Revitalization Episode 44: Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love, featuring author and pastor Larry Davis Episodes 39 and 41: Six Keys to Managing Conflict in a Church Revitalization The Revitalize My Church Podcast helps pastors of smaller, struggling churches navigate change and reorient to a new and healthy future. Hosted by Bart Blair, Director of Church Revitalization for Assist Church Expansion, and Nathan Bryant, Executive Director of Assist Church Expansion. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. If this episode has been helpful, leave a rating and a review, and share it with a pastor who needs it. Visit us at RevitalizeMyChurch.com for show notes, resources, and more.

Ep. 044 | When the Church Must Die in Order to Live

Can a dying church really come back to life? Pastor Larry Davis says yes, but not the way most revitalization books tell you. In this episode of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, Bart Blair sits down with Larry Davis, author of "Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love" and Associational Missionary for the Eastern Baptist Association. Larry has personally led three church revitalizations and has assisted or consulted with more than 110 churches. His perspective on revitalization is unlike anything most pastors have read or heard. Most books on church revitalization assume every church should live. Larry challenges that assumption directly. Drawing from Scripture, the Kubler-Ross stages of grief, and more than two decades of hands-on revitalization work, Larry makes the case that a congregation cannot embrace something new until it has genuinely grieved what was. That single principle changes everything about how a pastor should approach a struggling church. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE Why the local church has a natural life cycle, and what Scripture says about it How the five stages of grief (denial, bargaining, anger, depression, and acceptance) show up in a declining congregation Why trying to lead change before a church is ready almost always backfires How Larry navigated fierce resistance at Grace Seaford Church, including angry members at Wednesday night suppers What the "meeting before the meeting" is and why it is never optional How cascading communication works and why skipping the middle ring is one of the costliest mistakes in revitalization What resurrection actually looks like for a dying church, and why it is different for every congregation How to use a simple EKG framework to honestly assess the health of your church Why reaching out for help early dramatically increases a church's chances of genuine renewal THE FIVE STAGES OF GRIEF IN A LOCAL CHURCH Denial: The church refuses to admit there is a problem. Bargaining: The church tries to fix itself without actually changing. New sign letters. A younger pastor. A new program. Anger: Blame gets directed at the pastor, the leadership, or the community around the church. Depression: The congregation begins to realize the decline is real. Larry explains the important difference between secondary depression and preparatory depression. Acceptance: The congregation finally becomes open to whatever God wants to do next. This is the threshold of resurrection. ABOUT LARRY DAVIS Larry Davis spent nine years as an aerospace engineer before answering the call to full-time ministry in 2003. Over 26 years of vocational ministry, he has personally led three church revitalizations, co-planted Grace Mardela Church, and has assisted or consulted with more than 110 churches. He currently serves as Senior Pastor of Grace Seaford Church in Seaford, Delaware, and as Associational Missionary for the Eastern Baptist Association. His book "Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love" is available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Website: https://www.pastorlarrydavis.com Speaking and consulting inquiries: pastor@graceseaford.org BOOKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love by Larry Davis: https://www.amazon.com/Grieving-Loss-Church-You-Love/dp/1597557811 Autopsy of a Deceased Church by Thom Rainer Transforming the Rural Church in America by Shannon O'Dell Our Iceberg Is Melting by John Kotter On Death and Dying by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross ABOUT REVITALIZE MY CHURCH The Revitalize My Church Podcast is hosted by Bart Blair, Director of Church Revitalization at Assist Church Expansion. New episodes release on the 1st and 15th of every month. The podcast exists to help pastors of smaller and struggling churches navigate revitalization with practical, biblically grounded guidance. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Website: https://revitalizemy.church Full show notes for this episode:

Ep. 043 | 6 Keys to Handling Resistance in a Church Revitalization - Part One

Resistance is one of the most common and discouraging challenges a pastor faces when leading a church through revitalization. You cast the vision, you lay out the plan, and then someone pushes back. Or a group pushes back. And suddenly it feels like the people you are trying to help are the very ones standing in your way. In this episode of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant dig into what resistance actually is, why it is completely normal, and how to respond to it in a way that keeps the temperature in your church manageable. This is Part 1 of a two-part series on handling resistance in church revitalization, covering the first two of six practical keys. If you missed the previous two episodes on managing conflict in a church revitalization, go back and listen to Episodes 39 and 41 first. Resistance and conflict are related, but they are not the same thing, and understanding the difference will change how you respond to both. RESISTANCE IS NOT A SIGN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG If you are leading your church through meaningful change and not experiencing any resistance, you are probably not changing anything that really matters. Resistance is the natural result of inertia. People who have worshiped, served, and sacrificed in a church for 20, 30, or 40 years have deep roots. Even people who say they want change often do not fully realize what they are agreeing to until the process is underway. Resistance in a revitalizing church often comes from a few different places. Some people fear loss. They are not necessarily against the change itself, they are grieving what they might have to give up. Others are carrying the wounds of past attempts that did not work out. They tried things before, it did not go the way they hoped, and now their guard is up because they do not want to feel that sense of failure again. Others simply do not trust the leader enough yet to take a big step in a new direction. And some feel, even unintentionally, that the push for change is a criticism of everything they have built and sacrificed for over the years. All of that is worth understanding before you decide how to respond. WHAT MOSES CAN TEACH PASTORS ABOUT LEADING THROUGH RESISTANCE Moses led a people who had cried out to God for deliverance for generations, received it through miraculous signs and wonders, crossed the Red Sea, and then spent most of the journey through the wilderness complaining. They wanted the promised land immediately. What they got was a long, hard desert walk. Sound familiar? A few things stand out from Moses as a model for pastors navigating resistance. The people said yes to the journey without fully understanding what they were signing up for. Moses did not always keep his cool, but he remained committed to the mission. He interceded for the people even when they deserved judgment, because they were not his adversaries, they were his people. And Moses did not have the full plan from day one. God revealed it over time, and Moses had to adjust along the way. Revitalization is not that different. KEY 1 - DO NOT PERSONALIZE IT, CONTEXTUALIZE IT The first key to navigating resistance is refusing to take it personally. When a pastor becomes anxious or defensive in response to pushback, that anxiety spreads through the congregation and raises the temperature. Your defensiveness will escalate the situation faster than almost anything else. Proverbs 19:11 says that wisdom yields patience and that it is to one's glory to overlook an offense. That is not weakness. That is strategic leadership. Most resistance is not really about you. It is about the concept of change, the fear of loss, or the memories tied to something you are asking people to let go of. At the same time, pastors need to guard against making it feel personal to the people resisting. When change is communicated without empathy, without honoring what came before, and without acknowledging the years of sacrifice people have invested, it can land as an insult even when that was never the intent. Effective revitalization leaders learn to hold both of those things at the same time. KEY 2 - LISTEN BEFORE YOU LEAD James 1 says to be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. That is not just good advice for conflict. It is a practical strategy for managing resistance in a change process. Listening to someone is not the same as agreeing with them. But creating space for people to voice concerns, ask questions, and process what is being proposed will dramatically reduce the heat around resistance. Bart and Nathan walk through a layered communication approach: bring change concepts to top-level leaders first, not as finalized decisions but as ideas to interact with. Give people time to process. Offer one-on-one conversations so individuals are not hearing major changes for the first time in a group setting. And get good at asking better questions, because the root of someone's resistance is often something very different from what it looks like on the surface. One story from the episode illustrates this perfectly. A pastor faced pushback from a longtime member when the church decided to replace the pews with chairs. When the pastor took the time to really listen, he discovered the real concern had nothing to do with seating. Many of the pews had been purchased and dedicated in the names of people the member loved, and he was afraid they would end up in the trash. The pastor found a church willing to buy them, the pews went to a congregation where they would still be used, and the member felt heard and cared for. That outcome was only possible because the pastor chose to listen before he pushed forward. WHAT'S COMING IN PART 2 Bart and Nathan will be back with four more practical keys for handling resistance in church revitalization. Make sure you are subscribed so you do not miss the next episode. New episodes of the Revitalize My Church Podcast release on the 1st and 15th of every month. Subscribe on your favorite podcast app or hit Subscribe and ring the bell here on YouTube to get notified when new episodes go live. Visit us at RevitalizeMyChurch.com for show notes, resources, and more.