The Leaky Boat: Why Mid-Market Manufacturers Leave Millions on the Table

Manufacturing's Best-Kept Secret: How the MEP Network Helps Mid-Market Manufacturers Scale with Keith Gammill

In this episode, host Justin sits down with Keith Gammill, Director of Arkansas Manufacturing Solutions (AMS), the state's affiliate of the National MEP Network. Drawing on nearly 30 years in operations, quality, HR, and continuous improvement, Keith makes the case that the MEP is one of the rare government programs that "got it right" — and walks through how mid-market manufacturers can actually put it to work. The conversation ranges from the origins of lean and where it still gets misapplied, to the central role of vision in leadership, the real impact of AI on the office (not just the shop floor), and what a first engagement with your state's MEP center looks like. About the guest Keith Gammill leads transformational support for manufacturers across Arkansas as Director of AMS, part of Arkansas Workforce Connections and the National MEP Network. Before joining AMS in 2014, he spent over a decade at Anchor Packaging — most recently as Director of Quality and Product Safety, leading 20 quality professionals across nine manufacturing units, and earlier driving an AutoPack division turnaround from last to first place in the company. A Gestalt Professional Certified Coach and DDI Certified Facilitator, Keith holds dual BS degrees from Arkansas State University in Industrial Technology and Leadership Management. By his own description: "an old manufacturing puke." What you'll learn (with timestamps) * [00:03:00] — What the MEP Network is: a public-private partnership funded continuously since 1988, modeled on the Cooperative Extension Service — "the county agents for manufacturing," with a center in every state plus Puerto Rico. * [00:06:00] — The bread and butter: traditional lean services, including the Lean 101 workshop (Principles of Lean Manufacturing), run thousands of times in Arkansas. * [00:08:00] — How the network shares best practices through regional nodes and national gatherings — giving any center access to ~1,250 professionals system-wide. * [00:10:00] — How MEP services have evolved: reshoring/nearshoring post-COVID, plus technology transfer, automation, and AI. * [00:11:00] — Why AI's biggest manufacturing impact will be in the office, not the shop floor — sitting on top of disparate systems to flag issues and distill the critical few priorities. * [00:13:00] — South Carolina's OPEX (Operational Exchange) program, benchmarking trips, and why "all we know is what we know." * [00:15:00] — The Arkansas Manufacturing Showcase: an event "by manufacturers, for manufacturers" creating matchmaking and serendipitous connections across the state's ecosystem. * [00:16:00] — Good vs. great management: great managers have "seen great" — and why mistaking lean's tools for its goals leads people to throw the whole thing out. * [00:18:00] — Vision as the "beyond-the-horizon compass heading," and why involving stakeholders down to the shop floor is where commitment lives. * [00:22:00] — Keith's accessible take on vision: "If you've ever been on vacation, you've got vision." * [00:23:00] — What a real MEP engagement looks like: it starts with a listening session — pull, not push — tailored to industry, size, culture, and maturity. * [00:27:00] — Developing frontline leaders: AMS's Transformational Leadership Improvement suite, built for the operators promoted into leadership without ever being taught how to lead. * [00:29:00] — AI and legacy equipment: a phased approach starting with sensors and data, always within a bigger vision via value stream mapping. * [00:33:00] — Why planning's real value is the experiential journey the team takes together — and how that drives accountability without having to enforce it. * [00:35:00] — A friendly point of "violent agreement": why change efforts need a dedicated resource, not a shop-floor supervisor getting called 50 times a day. * [00:37:00] — How to get connected and what to expect from a first plant visit. Quotable moments * "You either mine it, make it, or grow it." * "All we know is what we know." * "The difference in good management and great management is great management has seen great at some point in their career." * "Vision is the beyond-the-horizon compass heading that draws us forward." * "If you've ever been on vacation, you've got vision." * "The game is won and lost in the corner office, not on the shop floor." * "You don't really need to enforce accountability when people have been a part of the journey." * "The expert is anybody more than 50 miles from the plant." * "If you're not engaged with them, you're foolish not to take advantage of it." Key takeaways for mid-market manufacturers There's an MEP center in every state offering deeply discounted, locally delivered support — most manufacturers just don't know it exists. Lean is as relevant as ever, but it spans the whole business; most waste hides in administrative functions, not on the floor. AI's near-term payoff is largely in the office, connecting siloed systems and surfacing the critical few priorities. Any technology or improvement effort should sit inside a bigger plan — start with a value stream map. And lasting change requires two things: a clear, shared vision and a dedicated resource to drive it. How to get connected Visit nist.gov/mep and click "Connect with an MEP Center," or simply search "MEP center [your state]." In Arkansas, reach out to Keith directly. The best first step: invite a center representative in for a plant visit or discovery conversation, and come ready to talk about your pain points — including the "magic wand" question: if you could change one thing in the business, what would it be? Connect with Keith LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-gammill-gpcc-6b7b661/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-gammill-gpcc-6b7b661/] Email: kgammill@astate.edu Mentioned in this episode Arkansas Manufacturing Solutions (AMS) · National MEP Network · Lean 101 / Principles of Lean Manufacturing · Bill Kraus (AMS) · SCMEP OPEX (Operational Exchange) program & Mike Demos · Arkansas Manufacturing Showcase · Transformational Leadership Improvement · Chris Mennona (past guest, most-downloaded episode) · Pat Erdley, Shift HR (past guest) · Quality Digest · Taiichi Ohno / Toyota Production System Enjoyed this episode? Like, subscribe, and share it with a fellow manufacturer. Help us reach more mid-market manufacturers looking to scale operations, improve the bottom line, and keep manufacturing strong in the USA.

Run Your Pipeline Like a Shop Floor: Stage Gates for Mid-Market Sales with Bill Bell

Episode Summary Most operators run the shop floor as a disciplined, measurable system and treat the sales pipeline as a black box. Bill Bell spent his career proving they are the same thing. A million dollar deal dies at month nine and the only explanation anyone offers is "the customer went a different direction." That answer is not a diagnosis. It is nothing. In this episode, Bill walks through how he took stage-gate thinking off the production line and applied it to complex industrial sales, why a stalled deal is a diagnosis rather than a dead end, and how mid-market manufacturers can stop pouring engineering capacity into custom orders that quietly lose money. If you came up through operations and the commercial side feels like guesswork, this one is for you. About the Guest Bill Bell is a partner and fractional Chief Revenue Officer at Chief Outsiders, with more than 20 years of CEO and senior executive experience across the automotive, industrial engineering, and technology sectors. His career includes leadership roles at Durr Group, Leadec Corporation, and Dunes Point Capital, plus executive education at the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business. As president and CEO of Leadec, he grew the top line by more than 80% in 24 months while substantially improving the bottom line. Today he partners with mid-market manufacturers and industrial companies to build the commercial infrastructure they need to drive consistent double-digit growth. What We Cover * (02:00) The origin story: how watching a welding station failure on the shop floor reframed a lost million dollar deal * (05:00) Why the right question is not "what's wrong with the deal" but "where in our process did the deal get stuck" * (07:00) Start on a whiteboard, not in a CRM. Run a 90 day Monday morning review before you automate anything * (09:00) Sales as a manufacturing process: you do not get a perfect widget on the first run * (10:00) Going to the gemba in sales means windshield time with your reps, not solving it from the conference room * (12:30) The qualification problem, and the 80% top-line growth that came mostly from tightening the front end * (14:00) The four criteria that separate a real project from sales scrap * (19:00) The CEO learning curve: getting your ego out of the room when you are not the smartest person in it * (22:00) Why accountability for execution is what separates great CEOs from the rest * (23:00) Customization as an absence of commercial discipline, and the three questions that fix it Key Takeaways A stalled deal is diagnostic. One stuck deal is noise. A hundred deals stuck in the same stage is a pattern. Consistent deaths at the budgetary quote point to an estimating problem. Deaths at technical validation point to a sales enablement gap. Understand the process before you buy software. Build the stage gates by hand, review every deal for 90 days, and find the patterns first. Then buy a CRM to automate a process you actually understand. Sales time is money, and unqualified deals are scrap. Selling without generating volume is the commercial equivalent of producing scrap on the line. Qualify against four criteria. A real project needs all four: 1. A compelling event forcing a decision (capacity constraint, regulatory deadline, platform launch) 2. Access to the economic buyer who owns the problem, not just a technical evaluator 3. A solution that genuinely solves the problem (if you cannot, say so and refer them, building credibility for next time) 4. A champion with a personal reason to want the win The CEO's job is to build more leaders. Stop trying to be the smartest person in every room. Ask better questions, demand clarity, let your functional experts own the decisions, then hold them accountable for executing what was agreed. Customization is not a value prop, it is often missing discipline. Push every custom request through a technical qualification gate with three questions: 1. Can this be built from our standard platform, or does it require genuine custom engineering? 2. If custom, what is the realistic hour and lead time impact, and is the customer being told that truthfully upfront? 3. Is the margin acceptable once real engineering hours land, or are we about to take an order that loses money? "Leaving revenue on the table" is a myth when you say no. Every custom order that eats disproportionate engineering capacity is an order you cannot take from a better-fit customer. You are already leaving revenue on the table. You just cannot see it. Quotable Moments > "When you think about sales, it's nothing more than a manufacturing process. Instead of manufacturing a widget, you're manufacturing a sale.""The right question is, where in our process did the deal get stuck, and try and figure out what the pattern is.""If you're selling but you're not generating volume, you're creating scrap.""The hardest discipline is really just to take your ego and put it in a drawer.""My job as a leader is to build more leaders. If I get hit by a car, I wanna have seven other people in the room that can take my job.""The discipline isn't about saying no to customization. It's about pricing it honestly and scoping it before you commit." Connect Reach out to Bill Bell at Chief Outsiders to talk through what is stalling growth in your own manufacturing business. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/williambellsr/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/williambellsr/] Subscribe to The Allied Advisors Podcast for more conversations built for mid-market manufacturers looking to scale operations and improve the bottom line. Connect with Justin Goethe and Allied Advisors to learn how the FCIM methodology drives measurable operational results. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-goethe-35b85a16/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-goethe-35b85a16/]

You Don't Need New Machines — You Need This Engineer with Dr. Thorsten Wuest

What if the single biggest lever for unlocking capacity on your shop floor isn't a new piece of equipment, a new ERP system, or a costly consultant — it's a discipline most mid-market manufacturers have never even considered hiring for? In this episode of the Allied Advisors Podcast, Justin sits down with Dr. Thorsten Wuest, full professor of mechanical engineering and founding program director of the brand-new Industrial Engineering program at the University of South Carolina's Molinaroli College of Engineering and Computing. Dr. Wuest arrived in Columbia in August 2024 with a mandate that would make most academics sweat: build a world-class IE program from scratch in a single semester. In one year, the program grew from 19 students to 66 — with another 30–40% growth projected — because, as it turns out, industrial engineering is the single most requested major from South Carolina employers that USC wasn't offering. Dr. Wuest is also the founding director of USC's new Center for Industry Solutions, designed to close the gap between academic research and real-world manufacturing — with a particular focus on giving mid-market companies access to the kind of engineering talent that only the Fortune 500 could previously afford. His advisory board already includes the CTO of Scout Motors, the head of engineering from Mercedes-Benz, and representation from Siemens. He has been named one of SME's 20 Most Influential Professors in Smart Manufacturing and has authored over 180 peer-reviewed articles. This is a conversation Justin has been wanting to have for a long time, and it delivers. What We Cover in This Episode The IE talent gap hiding in plain sight. Industrial engineering is the most-requested major from South Carolina employers — yet most high school students have never heard of it. Dr. Wuest breaks down why IE remains a "hidden major" and what USC is doing to change that, including a strategic partnership with Glimpse to better educate school advisors across the state. The ROI of a single industrial engineer. Justin shares a story you'll want to write down: one client increased production output by 80% using nothing more than a Process FMEA (PFEP) and some combines — a strictly industrial engineering project that drove millions in additional monthly revenue. Dr. Wuest echoes this with his own firsthand example: just one hour walking a mid-sized manufacturer's shop floor surfaced improvement opportunities that would pay back in weeks, not years. The savings don't stop at throughput — better routing and layout also reduce forklift crossings, lower accident risk, and can even reduce insurance premiums over time. Why your operations team will never solve this problem. You don't ask your shift supervisors how the process standards are coming along — you ask them how many parts came off the line. Justin and Dr. Wuest dig into why improvement work will always fall to the bottom of the pile unless you dedicate a resource to it, and why that resource pays for itself fast when given the right support and direction. Change management is the real barrier. Mid-market hesitancy around hiring industrial engineers often isn't really about the salary — it's about what an IE's recommendations actually require: organizational change. Dr. Wuest and Justin discuss why proactive change (on your timeline, with your resources) is almost always cheaper and less painful than reactive change forced by a crisis. How to start small: co-ops, capstones, and student consulting. Not ready for a full-time IE hire? Dr. Wuest makes the case for starting with a co-op or a structured student consulting project through the Center for Industry Solutions. These aren't ordinary class projects — they're interdisciplinary teams of competitively selected, paid students from IE, supply chain, and finance, supervised by professional staff and faculty, executing semester-long engagements run like real consulting engagements. Manufacturers get consulting-grade deliverables at a fraction of the cost. Students get real shop floor experience — and employers get an extended job interview with their best future candidates. The onboarding cost savings alone may justify the engagement. USC's Center for Industry Solutions: a new front door for manufacturers. Dr. Wuest walks through the three pillars of the Center — workforce readiness, talent retention, and industry-university connectivity — and explains how it functions as a matchmaking service for the whole breadth of what the Molinaroli College has to offer, from student consulting projects to full-scale applied research partnerships. He also details how the Center is working to dramatically reduce the legal friction that typically slows university-industry collaboration to a crawl. AI in engineering education: use it wisely, or pay for it later. Dr. Wuest has spent the last 10–15 years in machine learning research, so this isn't a surface-level conversation. He and Justin explore USC's proactive, transparency-first AI policy, the risk of students outsourcing their critical thinking before they've ever developed it, and why the analogy holds: if you never work as a junior coder, you can never become a senior one. The best use of AI — as Justin puts it — is as an "efficiency multiplier" for professionals who already have the foundational knowledge to evaluate and direct its output. You can't get there without doing the hard work first. Retaining talent in the Palmetto State. South Carolina's $3,000 internship incentive is a start, but the real retention play is giving students meaningful, challenging work with employers who treat them as intellectual contributors — not just cheap labor. Dr. Wuest lays out the chicken-and-egg dynamic driving engineering talent out of the Southeast, why that is beginning to reverse, and what Scout Motors' move toward Charlotte signals about the region's trajectory. Key Takeaways * Industrial engineering is the most-requested major from South Carolina employers — and one of the highest-ROI hires a mid-market manufacturer can make. * A dedicated IE resource is the only way to ensure process improvement actually becomes someone's first priority. * One hour of structured shop floor observation can surface savings that pay back in weeks. * Co-ops and student consulting through USC's Center for Industry Solutions offer a low-risk, high-value on-ramp for manufacturers who aren't ready for a full-time hire. * AI is a powerful efficiency multiplier — but only for professionals who have already done the hard work of developing foundational expertise. * The Southeast's talent retention problem is solvable, but it requires proactive investment from both universities and employers. About Our Guest Dr. Thorsten Wuest is a full professor of mechanical engineering and the founding program director of the Industrial Engineering program at the University of South Carolina's Molinaroli College of Engineering and Computing. He is also the founding director of USC's Center for Industry Solutions. Dr. Wuest is one of SME's 20 Most Influential Professors in Smart Manufacturing and the author of over 180 peer-reviewed articles. His research sits at the intersection of smart manufacturing, machine learning, and industrial AI. 📧 Contact Dr. Wuest: twuest@sc.edu [twuest@sc.edu] 🌐 Center for Industry Solutions: [sc.edu — search "Center for Industry Solutions"] Connect with the Allied Advisors Podcast If you're a mid-market manufacturer looking to scale operations and improve your bottom line, this show was built for you. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and if this episode resonated, share it with an operations leader who's been putting off that first industrial engineering hire.

Building Buy-In: Why Acceptance — Not Quality — Is the Real Bottleneck with George Pesansky — Six Sigma Master Black Belt, Author of Super Performance

Episode Summary Most mid-market manufacturers don't have a quality problem — they have an acceptance problem. Justin sits down with George Pesansky, a 30-year continuous improvement veteran who has trained 10,000+ professionals across six continents, to unpack the formula behind sustained performance: Success = Quality × Acceptance. George shares why airline kiosks won and self-checkout lost, how to spot the hidden "leaks" draining your operation, and why your shop floor superhero may be your biggest liability. About the Guest George Pesansky is a Six Sigma Master Black Belt and the author of Super Performance (Fast Company Press, 2025). He's the creator of the Deliberate Improvement Framework, a Forbes Coaches Council member, and founder of MyBlendedLearning.com. Over three decades, he has trained 10,000+ professionals in Lean Six Sigma and World Class Manufacturing across six continents. Key Takeaways Success = Quality × Acceptance Companies drown in quality and crater on acceptance. The Excel spreadsheet that worked yesterday and the veteran who's run things for 20 years are exactly what blocks buy-in for change. Stop Filling the Cup. Fix the Leaks. Every mid-market manufacturer has superheroes who swoop in at 3 a.m. to patch problems. That's filling the cup. Growth comes from following those superheroes, identifying every leak, and asking what system would have prevented it. Speedboats Beat Battleships Big organizations can't admit failure — careers are staked on it. Small and mid-size companies can pivot, learn from mistakes, and run circles around battleships. Failure isn't the enemy. Failing to learn from failure is. Flip Training: Why → What → How Most compliance training is 80% how and almost no why. George's Learning Marketing System inverts it: lead with why it matters, define the benefit, then teach the how. RESOURCES & LINKS * Book: Super Performance by George Pesansky (Fast Company Press, 2025) * https://www.amazon.com/Superperformance-Strategies-Potential-Yourself-Organization/dp/1639081356/ref=sr_1_1?crid=34ROZ53EW043Y&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3VrjOBXXPCVi2Ru3ptNufQ.yLC6BIUJrsX4rDIOS0yVuNo2clhBiNZUlnXWcFGfZTo&dib_tag=se&keywords=Super+Performance+George+Pesansky&qid=1777574631&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=super+performance+george+pesansky%2Caps%2C212&sr=8-1 [https://www.amazon.com/Superperformance-Strategies-Potential-Yourself-Organization/dp/1639081356/ref=sr_1_1?crid=34ROZ53EW043Y&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3VrjOBXXPCVi2Ru3ptNufQ.yLC6BIUJrsX4rDIOS0yVuNo2clhBiNZUlnXWcFGfZTo&dib_tag=se&keywords=Super+Performance+George+Pesansky&qid=1777574631&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=super+performance+george+pesansky%2Caps%2C212&sr=8-1] * Featured article: https://www.fastcompany.com/91521452/the-ai-success-equation-we-are-getting-wrong [https://www.fastcompany.com/91521452/the-ai-success-equation-we-are-getting-wrong] * Training: MyBlendedLearning.com [https://myblendedlearning.com/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deliberateimprovement/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/deliberateimprovement/] * Mentioned: Light Forge Works (Braydon McCormick episode), prior episode with Winfred Rocksteiner CONNECT WITH ALLIED ADVISORS Have a question or want to talk about scaling your operation? Justin would love to hear from you. * Email: jgoethe@alliedgroup.io * Web: alliedadvisors.io * Subscribe: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube

The Leaky Boat: Why Mid-Market Manufacturers Leave Millions on the Table

Most manufacturers are great at building things. Far fewer are great at understanding whether those things are actually making them money — and that gap is costing them more than they realize. In this episode, Justin sits down with Allen Engstrom, Managing Director of CFO Network, to break down the financial realities that every mid-market manufacturer needs to understand. With over two decades of experience — including a stint at Intel, where he helped oversee a 60-person team managing a $60 billion data storage market strategy — Allen has seen firsthand what separates manufacturers who thrive from those quietly taking on water. They get into the cash flow mismatch that makes manufacturing uniquely brutal, the single metric Allen looks at first when he walks into a business, and why "we'll make it back next quarter" is a mindset that can sink a company. If you've ever wondered whether your financials are telling you the full story, this one's for you. What you'll learn in this episode: * Why manufacturing cash flow is so uniquely challenging — and what Allen saw firsthand at Intel committing a billion dollars to build a factory for products that didn't exist yet * The difference between gross margin and Return on Invested Capital (ROIC) — and why ROIC is the number Allen looks at first * How to benchmark your business against industry peers to spot whether your margins are competitive or dangerously thin * The "leaky boat" framework: how to identify where money is quietly escaping your operation through poor labor utilization, equipment underperformance, and pricing gaps * Why a 1% improvement in the right place can literally double your cash flow * What private equity firms are really looking for when they evaluate a manufacturing business — and how to prepare for that culture shift * The fractional CFO value proposition: why bringing in financial expertise may be the highest-ROI investment you can make in your business * Why sunk costs are water under the bridge — and how forward-looking financial discipline separates growing companies from struggling ones About Allen Engstrom: Allen Engstrom is the Managing Director of CFO Network, where he leverages over two decades of experience to provide world-class outsourced finance and accounting solutions for businesses of all sizes. Holding an MBA from the University of Texas at Austin with a specialization in IT entrepreneurship and finance, Allen blends deep technical knowledge with sharp business acumen. His career includes a significant tenure at Intel Corp, where he served as a program manager overseeing a 60-person team for a $60 billion data storage market strategy and managed M&A transactions totaling over $4 billion. Today, based in North Little Rock, Arkansas, he is known for transforming complex financial data into actionable growth strategies. Connect with Allen: 🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/allen-engstrom-4a436/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/allen-engstrom-4a436/] Enjoyed this episode? If this conversation added value, please take a moment to like, subscribe, and share the show. The more mid-market manufacturers we can reach, the more we can help move the needle on the bottom line — which is what The Allied Advisors Podcast is all about.