What Working for Carey Nieuwhof Taught Dillon Smith About Leaving Ministry & Serving Churches

Everything You Want Is on the Other Side of Scary with Brian Wallace

👉 Get my guide to clarify your next step: ⁠https://itstheinbetween.com/ [https://itstheinbetween.com/] Brian Wallace has spent 19 years helping organizations take complex ideas and make them simple, visual, and impossible to ignore. As founder of NowSourcing — one of the pioneering infographic and visual storytelling agencies in the world — he's helped companies, basketball players, and movement builders get heard. He also sat on the South by Southwest advisory board for half a decade and organizes the Innovate Summit, a curated event built around the idea that the best thing you can walk away with from any room is one real relationship. This conversation goes wide. Brian talks about how he thinks about simplifying ideas, why most people hide behind bullet points and complexity instead of leading with emotion and story, and what it actually looks like to be a super-connector — hint: it has nothing to do with collecting business cards. He gets into the broken conference industry, what a healthy event looks like, and why everybody is a media company whether they know it or not. Takeaways: 👉 The three layers that make any idea land — emotion, storytelling, and data — and why the order matters 👉 Why leading with bullet points and features is the fastest way to lose someone before you've started 👉 What "super-connecting" actually means and why most people misunderstand it 👉 How Brian built a conference around the idea of "the concierge of humanity" — and what that looks like in practice 👉 Why everyone is a media company, including you — and what to do with that right now 👉 The creative impulse Brian believes is breathed into every person and why most people suppress it This Episode Is for You If… 👉 You've left a role that gave you identity and you're trying to figure out what to build next 👉 You know you have something to offer the world but you don't know how to make it visible 👉 You feel isolated in your transition and don't know how to start rebuilding your network 👉 You've been avoiding the thing you actually want because it feels too scary to start 📝 Show Notes:https://itstheinbetween.com/episode34-brian-wallace/

What Working for Carey Nieuwhof Taught Dillon Smith About Leaving Ministry & Serving Churches

👉 Get my guide to clarify your next step: https://itstheinbetween.com/ [https://itstheinbetween.com/] In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Dillon Smith — founder of CMO.Church and former content manager for Carey Nieuwhof. Dillon spent eight years working behind the scenes for two of the most influential voices in church leadership before stepping out to launch CMO.Church, a fractional CMO firm built on the conviction that world-class marketing should be available to every pastor on the planet. This conversation covers both the practical and the personal — from how to know when it's time to leave a ministry role, to what check writers are actually willing to pay for, to a book at the end that will ask you a question you won't be able to shake. Takeaways: 👉 Why your passion often moves before your calling does — and what to do with that 👉 Three markers that helped Dillon know it was time to leave Life.Church 👉 Why nothing from your ministry past is wasted — even the seasons that made no sense 👉 The trap of building a platform just to be famous for being a good Christian 👉 What check writers are willing to pay for — and why that's where to start 👉 Why community is what content was in the 2010s — and how to start building one 👉 The one metric Dillon tracks above followers and impressions 👉 The Second Mountain — and whether you're building the kingdom of me or the kingdom of Jesus This Episode Is for You If… 👉 You're a pastor or ministry leader wondering what comes next after a season in the church 👉 You want to build something but don't know where to start 👉 You've been watching other people's business content at night and wondering what that means 👉 You want practical insight on content, community, and marketing from someone who's built it at the highest level in the church world 📝 Show Notes:https://itstheinbetween.com/episode33-dillon-smith/

Faith, Fear & Your Nervous System with Jo Hargreaves (Faith Filled Therapist)

👉 Get my guide to clarify your next step: https://itstheinbetween.com/ In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Jo Hargreaves — psychotherapist, writer, speaker, pastor, and known as the Faith Filled Therapist — to explore the intersection of theology and therapy, and why neuroscience keeps pointing straight back to Scripture. Jo shares how a Holy Spirit nudge during early lockdown led her to start teaching what she'd long been discovering privately: that God designed us as spirit, soul, and body — and that our faith is meant to be embodied, not just intellectual. From perfect love casting out fear at a neurobiological level, to why worship activates your vagus nerve, to how your early attachment wounds may be quietly shaping your relationship with God — this conversation is rich, practical, and deeply grounding. Takeaways: 👉 Why perfect love really does cast out fear — at a neurobiological level 👉 What's happening in your body when you're overwhelmed and can't connect with God 👉 The practice of "regulate before you renew" — and why it changes everything 👉 Notice, name, and reframe — what taking thoughts captive looks like in ordinary life 👉 Biblical meditation: what it actually is, what it isn't, and how to practice it your way 👉 How anxious, avoidant, and disorganized attachment quietly shape how you relate to God 👉 Why holistic flourishing — spirit, soul, and body — isn't idealistic, it's God's design This Episode Is for You If… 👉 You're a faith-based leader in transition — between roles, seasons, or a sense of calling 👉 You know the truth but can't seem to feel it, and the shame of that gap is making it worse 👉 You want practical, theologically grounded tools for managing your mind in everyday life 👉 You're curious about the connection between your nervous system and your spiritual life If you liked this episode, please give it a thumbs up 👍, subscribe, and share it with your friends. 📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode32-jo-hargreaves/

Beth & Jeff McCord: From Pastoral Crisis to Global Enneagram Coaching Movement

In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Beth and Jeff McCord—bestselling authors and founders of Your Enneagram Coach—to unpack the powerful story behind one of the most influential faith-based coaching movements in the world. After a devastating church transition left them questioning their purpose, the McCords found themselves in an unexpected season of rebuilding. What began with financial uncertainty, part-time jobs, and late-night brainstorming sessions soon grew into a global platform serving millions. They share openly about loss, marriage tension, risk, recovery, and the surprising ways God used their pain to prepare them for something new. Takeaways : 👉 The church role that went sideways—and the sabbatical that forced a reset 👉 Beth’s entrepreneurial spark (platform skills, first Instagram posts, the scrappy first coach cohort) 👉 Jeff’s recovery & reframing season (counseling, ACOA, learning to learn-and-act) 👉 The catalytic moment: Ian Cron’s book hits and demand surges 👉 Why they launched Beth’s company (not under Jeff’s) to rewrite old patterns 👉 “Building while flying”: hiring help, customer support, and sustainable rhythms 👉 Redefining success beyond a church title—serving more people in new ways 👉 How their latest work (More Than Your Number) blends IFS with the Enneagram to navigate the inner world through transition This Episode Is for You If… * You’ve been through a ministry/job disruption and need a hopeful, practical blueprint * You and your spouse are navigating new roles while building something together * You’re curious how small experiments (and a lot of faithfulness) compound into a movement * You want to see how Enneagram insight + recovery work shaped a resilient second act * If you liked this video, please give it a thumbs up 👍, subscribe, and share it with your friends. 📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode31-beth-jeff-mccord/

The Magic of Knowing What You Want with Tracey Gee

In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Tracey Gee—leadership coach, consultant, and author of The Magic of Knowing What You Want—to explore how desire, faith, and small experiments create aligned momentum after a disruptive transition. Tracey shares how a missed promotion shattered her sense of identity—and how a simple 40-day practice (doing one thing each day she genuinely wanted) helped her reconnect with God, recover her agency, and begin imagining a new future. Takeaways: 👉 Why desire is an honest doorway to clarity (you can’t fake what brings you alive) 👉 The “question parking lot”: permission, pragmatic, competency, and capital questions—and when to use them 👉 The Authentic Alignment Pathway (Calibration, Expansion, Experimentation, Integration) 👉 Why you don’t think your way to clarity—you live your way into it 👉 How to engage disappointment so it moves you closer to what you want 👉 How faith and desire cooperate (not compete) in discernment This Episode Is for You If… * You’re a faith-based leader in transition—between seasons and craving aligned momentum * You’re tired of autopilot and want a practical way to listen to God in your desires * You keep getting stuck in “am I allowed / is it realistic / am I qualified / can I afford it?” loops * You want right-sized experiments to build clarity this month 📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode30-tracey-gee/