207 - You Can't Wrench and Run the Business Forever: A Shop Owners Turning Point

208 - A Technician Crisis or a Productivity Problem? Ask Me Anything with Cecil and David

208 - A Technician Crisis or a Productivity Problem? Ask Me Anything with Cecil and David June 10, 2026 - 00:55:43 Show Summary: Cecil Bullard and David Roman discuss whether the industry's biggest challenge is finding technicians or improving productivity. They explore why shop owners often keep struggling employees too long and how clear expectations make difficult staffing decisions easier. The conversation highlights the importance of job descriptions accountability and documented processes. They also explain how poor structure lowers shop value and limits growth. The discussion closes with a look at pricing strategies and why shop owners must stop blaming rising costs instead of adjusting their margins.   Host(s): David Roman, Shop Owner Done With Care Auto [http://donewithcareautorepair.com] and Changing the Industry Podcast [https://changingtheindustrypodcast.com/] Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/]   Show Highlights: [00:01:03] – Letting the wrong employee stay hurts the whole team. [00:05:22] – Every employee impacts the success of many families. [00:08:15] – Winning requires the right people in every role. [00:12:14] – Hire carefully and accountability problems become less common. [00:17:10] – AI makes creating job descriptions easier than ever. [00:20:11] – Structured businesses hold greater value and survive longer. [00:24:03] – Poor productivity and margins cost owners millions. [00:30:32] – Employees need coaching before owners assume resistance. [00:37:46] – New habits require daily follow up and accountability. [00:47:13] – Rising costs require pricing changes not excuses.     In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Xrs_YGYDAic [https://youtu.be/Xrs_YGYDAic]   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  * Want to learn more? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/] * Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/business-assessment%7C] * See The Institute's events list: Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/upcoming-events] * Want access to our online classes? Click Here [https://www.gearforshops.com/pages/course-library] ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com [marketing@wearetheinstitute.com].   Episode Transcript:   A Technician Crisis or a Productivity Problem Ask Me Anything with Cecil and David Cecil Bullard: Welcome. My name is Cecil Bullard. Welcome to the Institute Ask Me Anything. Today you get to ask me and David Roman from Changing the Industry podcast, a f- good friend of mine. Hey, David. How are you today? David Roman: This is so professional. I'm not used to this. Cecil Bullard: Oh, come on now. Wait a minute, brother. David Roman: I do the production work on my podcast. Trust me, this is professional. I just slap the stuff up on the internet and say, "Go." Cecil Bullard: There you go. I don't know. I'm a nut, so I'm a- ... I'm a perfectionist and- Yeah ... in fact, my hair is bothering me, right? And David Roman: just cut it all off. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. You'll like it. Just cut it all off. What's what's cooking with you, brother? What's what do you got for us today? I know we got some people that will be asking questions and all of that. And David Roman: you- Yeah. I've got an interesting question I- I'd like your opinion on, and this is a discussion Lucas and I have had in the past. In our minds, you, as you start to scale, you become more disconnected with the business on a personal level, and it becomes a business. I've... and this is specifically with your staff, where when the shop is small and maybe there's three employees, maybe four employees, you're all friends. You kinda hang out, you have lunch together. It's a whole thing, right? But as you start to grow the business and you've gotta start letting people go, the weak links or people that are causing problem or people that have just run their course in the business and they can no longer keep up with what you're demanding or what you need for the business to continue to succeed, you have to start letting people go. And that has and this question came up in the, in, in our Facebook group, where the person was having trouble finding the mindset and the wherewithal to let the person go that needed to be let go. And he just, he's "Man I'm just too c- too connected to the person. I don't know what to do. How do you disconnect that?" And he just, he felt bad, and he knew that when the time came, he wasn't gonna be able to pull the trigger. And I see this Incredibly detrimental to businesses in general. You see too many businesses that you walk into and you immediately identify that person's gotta go. That person is causing all this trouble here. They are binding up production. They're questioning everything you do. They're undermining your authority. They don't allow you to implement anything new because they wanna go immediately back to their old ways, and they wanna kinda hide in the weeds a- and hide in the chaos is what we call it, right? Yeah. There's chaos going on in the shop, and they just wanna hide in the chaos and just kinda cruise and collect their paycheck. And they don't let them go because they're like, "Oh, they've been with me for 15, 20 years. I can't let them go." H- how do you make that mindset shift? What have you seen? What have you seen work at other shops? How do you kinda make that change? And how have you done it within just the institute itself? Cecil Bullard: It's never easy to terminate somebody, especially someone that you may have been working with for a very long time. And there, there needs to be some loyalty to your people, right? Yeah. You can't just like, "Oh, you screwed up, so now you're gone." And I think that in mo- for me, it's been a difficult change. I, I think a lot of people think I'm a pretty cold-hearted SOB, so for me to fire somebody, no big deal. But I always keep people too long. I always have too much hope all of that. For me, I think we talk about a vision for the business. We talk about your vision statement, your mission statement, those kind of things. I think the more you clarify the rules and the roles of the job I would I might sit down with with you, David, and I might say, "What's the org chart looks like? What does this business look like, say, five years from now? What do you want out of your life," right? And you say to me Cecil, here's how that looks." And the organizational chart creates structure, right? Who answers to who. But it also, if you do it right, it can create description, job description. What do I need this person in this role to do, right? And so the more you clarify, the more the people that can't or won't get the job done will stand out, all right? And I think that I have to look at my business differently. So let's say that you and I we're buddies and we're gonna start a shop. And by the way, I'm gonna be the sales guy. You can be the tech 'cause I'm not a tech not now anymore. And I'm still pretty good at selling stuff, so- I David Roman: rebuild car, by the way. It'll be a terrible shop. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So you don't fix cars either. We're gonna have to hire somebody. But let's say that we do that, right? And so we're best buds, and we go along for a couple of years, and I'm not getting what I need or want out of my life, right? I didn't start the institute to pay the bills, right? If I had started the institute to pay the bills, I would've worked for somebody else, right? Yeah. I started the institute to do something special in the world that I live in and to try to control my future and to create my future, and a future for my family and the families of the people I work with. So we have to start thinking differently, two years from now, we've got three techs, we've got a service advisor and you and I, and I'm not responsible for just Cecil or just Cecil and Dave. Now I'm responsible for, I don't know, 25 people, because everybody that works for me has a family, right? Yeah. And if I allow one person in the company or even two people in the company to hold the company back Then everybody gets penalized. This is a, an ecosystem. When the ecosystem gets screwed up, everybody suffers, okay? And it's one thing for me to say I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold onto David even though he's a pain in the ass, and even though he won't change and even though he costs me money and gives me aggravation because, I've got this loyalty thing and I like David and I'm gonna hold onto him." I can do that when it's just you and me, right? Because I'm only affecting me and my family, right? And I can make that decision. But, at the institute we've got 30, I don't know, 34 employees now and that only counts the institute. That doesn't count other companies that we now have brought into the institute, so we're probably closer to 60 or 70. And those are 60 or 70 families- David Roman: Yeah ... Cecil Bullard: that I have to affect. So if I have somebody in here that's fighting the, whatever, not doing their job correctly. Plus, I've created this structure in the organization, remember, because I don't wanna be the only person that's gonna draw... pull the hammer, right? I think you have to understand that and I think this is one of my, kinda one of my things. I wanna win, right? And in fact, I'm so mentally ill that I will do, l- I don't really wanna win, I just don't wanna lose. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so I will do almost anything it takes to win. And I have to watch that, because that sometimes can push me over the edge, right? And so I have to control that part- And I have to, for, so for me, if I'm gonna win, I can't have people in the organization that can't or won't do their job- Yeah ... or that are fighting the organization. Think I used this morning with one of my clients. I said think if you were building a, you wanted to win the Super Bowl, and you're building a championship football team, and you had a receiver that couldn't catch." Yeah. Okay? What would you do with that guy? Yeah. Would you keep him on your team 'cause he's a nice guy, and, he always shows up to practice, he's early to practice, and he practices really hard? He just can't catch the ball, right? It's not his fault. He's a nice guy, right? Would you keep him? David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And the answer's no, because y- you could never win the Super Bowl. You won't. And while that might seem harsh, my- personally, I don't believe it's harsh. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I had a... I took over this company that was failing miserably, and for the first, I don't know, eight, nine months I worked 80 hours a week. I interviewed people. I sold 1.9 million annually at the service counter by myself. I ordered parts. I did a bunch of stuff. And I was away from my family for all that, so my family suffered for that time. And so I hire this guy. We'll call him Mike. A nice guy. Really nice guy. He became my right ar- arm guy. He became the guy that when I decided I'm gonna take Mondays off, he was there Monday. If there was a unhappy customer, he took care of the unhappy customer. And so we're in this thing two and a half, three years, and he's my right arm guy, and he's allowing me to go spend time with my family. Holy smokes. Yeah. And all of a sudden, he is the most sour, rotten guy. "This effing company," and, "This it's the same effing crap every single effing day," and blah, blah, blah, and, "I hate this effing job." And, about two weeks of this, and I pull him in my office and I said, "Dude, I'm gonna terminate you." I said, "It's not that you're not, quote-unquote, doing your job, but you are so unhappy and you're so miserable, you're dragging all of us with you- Yeah ... and our customers with you. And I can't ha- " And I terminated him, right? And about two years later, he... I saw him somewhere and he came up and he said, "I just wanna thank you for firing me." David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And you're like wait a minute," that was a hard thing to do. You were my right arm guy. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And he said, "No, I needed something else." "And I went somewhere else and I found something that made me happy. The Institu- It wasn't the Institute at the time, it was Larry's, but Larry's wasn't making me happy. I couldn't- Yeah ... be happy," right? "And you recognized that, and you did the hard thing and you terminated me." David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: I, I- I think that business, the, what's different between, say, corporate business and, small business- ... right? Little family-run business. We all know each other. Kinda in corporate I probably do, too. The problem with corporate is corporate has a very distinct reason for being there. Yeah. It's about profit, and if you don't make profit- It's well de- David Roman: well defined. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. A- and if you don't make profit, then the investors leave, and you don't have a company. Yeah. It's that easy, right? And so it's very easy, and they also are much more structured. So incorporation, in a corporate, you've got the manual, you've got your, your process manual, you've got the company a man- manual, you've got the safety manual. ... You got your procedures, and if you screw that up and the profits disappear from the company, you're fired. That's it, right? Yeah. There's not... Th- there wouldn't be a manager because if the manager didn't fire you, if your direct manager didn't fire you, the guy above him would. Yeah. And he'd also fire the manager, David Roman: right? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so there's no... but we as owners of small businesses, we're much more compassionate, and we put up with it a lot longer. Yeah. I would also say that in a, in corporate, because you know there's consequence and you know that consequence is, it's going to happen, that you're much more likely to handle it sooner rather than later. Sometimes. So what happens... Y- yeah. In small business- Nope ... a lot of times we watch somebody go downhill, and we watch them go downhill, and it's only after we've kinda got the courage up to have the conversation, that could be six months from now- David Roman: Yeah Cecil Bullard: that we have the conversation, and by then we're probably angry, and if we're angry, we're not doing the right things. David Roman: No, we're not rational. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. David Roman: Yeah. I've seen, I, we just had somebody on the podcast, and the guy i- is doing extremely well. He's just killing it. He's super young, and he's he just blurted out, he's I fire them as fast as I hire them." And I go hold on now. You're just finding more people and you're just cycling through?" He's "Yeah, I just cycle through them until I find the right person." And it goes back to the phrase you hire slow, you fire fast. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. David Roman: But the hiring slow si- sometimes gets glazed over. If you're finding the right people and you're taking the time to find the right people, and then just as you stated earlier, you're putting them into an organization that is well-defined in their role, in the organizational chart, the likelihood that you're gonna have somebody that you're gonna have to fire is going to go way down. I don't fire a lot of people. I haven't had to fire a lot of people, and the ones that I've had to fire is for a reason. But- Cecil Bullard: If you create accountability and- David Roman: Exactly. But that, that- And if you Cecil Bullard: manage ... David Roman: that assumes that you've got well-defined roles, job description- And that's- everybody knows exactly what they're supposed to be doing because at that point you can then hold them accountable and go, "Hey, this is what we do. We do A, B, and C. You're not doing A or B or C, whatever it happens to be. We need to either fix this or you can't be in the organization." Cecil Bullard: And, a- and in what business can you go to work and say to your boss, "No, I'm not gonna do what you asked me"? David Roman: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Cecil Bullard: The o- the automotive industry, I'm sure a lot of small businesses, who knows, maybe the local bowling alley the guy that's supposed to be, spraying the disinfectant in the shoes and handing you shoes, maybe he's not doing his job right and nobody is catching it. But in, in- almost any world, if your boss asks you to do... I was when I've had an employee that won't do what I need them to do, and f- and I'm sure that we've discussed it, I'm sure they understand what it is, but they still refuse, I always ask them, "Is it illegal, immoral, or unethical?" And they're like no it's none of those. I just don't wanna do it." Okay. That's called gross insubordination, and that's means for termination. Yeah. That's in your employee manual, right? And if you read your employee manual, you understand that when the boss asks you to do something, if it isn't illegal, immoral, or unethical, then that's what you're supposed to do. I could change your whole job description. I could go, "Hey, David, from now on, you're not gonna be talking to anybody on these dang webinars," blah, blah, blah. If I'm the boss I could do that, and you could be really upset about that, but it's not illegal, it's not immoral, it's not unethical so what? Yeah. And then you have the choice to say, "I don't wanna be in that job anymore," right? I- Yeah. You changed my job to a place where I don't wanna... It's not what I wanna do. Yeah. And that's fine. But because we know people, because we're intimately involved with them, we know their lives. My our top admin person is in Ireland right now getting married, along with most of our admin staff. And and you're like, we know these people. We know their lives. We know their husbands, their wives, their kids. They've been to the barbecue, et cetera. I think the way that I look at it is I owe it to the company and to the people we serve. So I've had the opportunity to change- Probably anywhere from 4 to 10,000 lives for the better- in most cases. I, at least I hope so, right? And if I didn't terminate unhealthy people out of the organization- Yeah ... I would've changed a lot less lives. Yeah. I would've helped a lot less people, right? And so I, I look at it differently, and it still takes me too long, and it's still painful to let someone go. David Roman: Yeah. And th- this brings up another question that somebody had had popped up in, in one of the Facebook groups, and that ha- has to do with job descriptions. And just pertaining to the conversation we were just having, if the, if you're not outlining the job for the person, they will invent something for themselves. Cecil Bullard: Yep. David Roman: And then the minute you ask them to do something that in their mind they've created this job description, "This is what I do," it's okay, since I didn't define it, I guess you defined it for yourself. Now I'm asking you to do something that's not within that purview. You're gonna get upset, and then all of a sudden the the hostility starts because now they're slighted that, "Hey we didn't discuss this. Why are you asking me to do this? That's outside of my job description." I don't have a job description written out for you. You invented it for yourself. But This was somebody that needed a something on paper, and I said, "Look, at the very least, you can always start with technician fix the car." Cecil Bullard: Yeah, fix the car. Just David Roman: start Cecil Bullard: with- It should, frankly, right? David Roman: Yeah. Be- I'm telling you, these shop owners- ... they get in their heads about job descriptions and standard operating procedures, and they just overcomplicate it, and they're like I gotta have this outline, and it's gotta look like corporate," like you were saying, the HR manual, and this, that, and the other. You don't need to have all that. Just start with the very basics. Like- Cecil Bullard: But the funny thing is today, first of all, from the institute, if you want a job description, we got job descriptions. I- if you're a client, certainly you have access to all of that. But I would almost tell you that I have posted job descriptions, all kinds of things online- 50 times, yeah. And it... Right now, if you were to Google or use AI and say, "I need a job description for a technician that does XYZ," and you were to just basically define it, it would come up with a pretty dang decent job description for you. And you can- ... David Roman: adjust from there. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, and then you can make adjustments. It's AI, and a lot of us are afraid of AI in our industry, and a lot of us don't really understand what AI is or, some of us think it's gonna, it's gonna decide to destroy us, Skynet and all of that. It's coming David Roman: up. Cecil Bullard: But you never know. Skynet launching David Roman: the missiles or Cecil Bullard: coming to town. Any minute, right? But I think I don't even have to use AI. I can go online and say, "Can I have a job description for a technician?" And Google's gonna give me five different job descriptions. Yeah. And I can go through and pick and choose the pieces that fit my job descriptions. It is... It's not 25 years ago where you might if you went to Google and said I don't know if Google's 25 years old, it's probably about 25. I had- It's almost there ... an opportunity to buy Google stock way back then, which I did not do otherwise. But- David Roman: We wouldn't Cecil Bullard: be talking right now. But no, we would... Maybe not the same conversation. We'd be on a boat. But yeah. But if I... 25 years ago if I said, "Give me a job description," it would've went "I'm sorry. W- what? Huh?" And probably for the last 10 years, I could've went on and got a job description if I really wanted to get a job description. The other problem we have, I think just as an industry, is that we're so busy Just trying to do the job of keep the cars going through and keep the customer happy, that we forget that we need to organize and structure the business in order to ultimately be successful, right? Yeah. There are so many guys that are my age and older that are having to get out of the business for health issues that they haven't structured their business, so there's no- nothing to sell, right? It's solely based on whether or not you made any money, and if you didn't make enough, then it isn't, it has no value. And it's a real shame to watch guys in their, late 60s, mid sev- to mid-70s when they realize, "I'm gonna have to retire and all I'm really gonna have is the little bit of money I saved and my Social Security, if it exists, and I'm not gonna get, really get anything out of this company that I r- I ran for the last 45 years." David Roman: Or they're delusional and they think that thing's worth a quarter million doll- And it's dude- Cecil Bullard: Yeah, and they're David Roman: never gonna get it ... you're doing $30,000 a month and you're not even profitable. What? Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And they're ne- and they're never gonna get it. I mean- ... and, a-again, the more you st- you know with I know a lot of people are not happy with the thought of venture capital coming in and all that, but they're here. And the more you structure your business, the more you pull yourself out of the day-to-day roles in the business, the more your business becomes worth. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Whether you sell it to venture capital or you sell it to your service advisor or someone else who's looking to build their bench, right? Or their their platform. It's it... The game has changed a lot, unfortunately. I was do- a bunch of statistical data we did last week for this big meeting that we were having I think a 127,000 shops out of about 260 are just gonna close in the next five years. David Roman: Yeah. ' Cecil Bullard: Cause there's no, there's nothing there. There's no value. And there might be another 100,000 that will open and start, yeah. But a bunch of guys are just gonna disappear and fade away because they didn't structure, they didn't You know, build job descriptions and flow charts and, Biggest issue in the industry in my opinion is that we really don't fully understand our business, and therefore we don't really run our business in a financially prosperous way. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. David Roman: Not having those steps outlined... And I, a- about my shop. I'm not- Yeah ... in my shop at all, ever. Yeah. I don't go down. I avoid it. I go to the dumpster once a month and dump stuff out of my house that I need to throw away. And that's it. I just Cecil Bullard: did that this weekend, man. Dumpster's full. David Roman: Yeah. And but the reason why that's been possible, and it- not that I'm maximizing profitability or to the nth degree and tweaking this, that, and the other, but we at least got the blocking tackling down. Yeah. A- and it's automated to the, to a certain point that the manager can talk to anybody that they bring in and say, "This is where we hang the keys. This is where the car goes. This is where we hang the keys for the next car." "This is how we estimate." "This is how we dispatch the work." "This is how we price." "This is how we do the estimate." Yeah. Yeah. "This is how we..." Everything's automated on the shop management side. Y- so just whatever the price is, that's the price. This is how we outline the repairs. Everything is just set up in a specific fashion that it can be tra- it's trainable. They can go onto somebody else brand new... And I brought in two people in the last six months, a tech and somebody to help up front so I don't have to be there at all. And they have, they've been able to get trained on the processes where w- I just had a conversation with somebody, and they were saying that they had brought in this tech. This guy is just hurting for techs, just dying to get techs. Finally gets somebody to bite, and he's probably throwing huge money out there because he finally, he got somebody- I know. Yeah ... and they actually moved their box into the shop. So the money was there. Within two hours, the guy was gone. Two hours, Zola, it took for the guy go, "This isn't gonna work. I gotta go." " Cecil Bullard: I can't make this work." David Roman: Yeah. Yeah. And I guarantee he walked in and he's he was just handed a clipboard, and he's "Hey, fix that car." And he's li- looking at the clipboard, and there's some scribbles on it, and it, there's no process. Where do the keys go? Where are my parts? What work needs to be done? How many hours am I getting paid for? Like, all of these very basic things that need to be outlined haven't been outlined, and the, they're, everybody's just kinda shooting from the hip. 25 years later, they're trying to get rid of the business, and they're like What do you want me to sell here? There's nothing to sell. There's no processes, there's nothing. You're in the business every single day shooting from the hip. Yeah, you can't- You remove yourself from the business, like what do you do? Cecil Bullard: And you're also costing yourself, probably hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars over the 40 years that you run the business. Absolutely. Because you're not maximizing, your business. I had a new client it actually wasn't one of my clients, but I often am involved in new client meetings with some of our coaches and- so we have a new client come on board, and their parts margin's off by 14%. And you're like, "Oh, that's 50 grand," right? And then you look at their productivity's at about 55%. And you're like, "Oh, there's 200,000." And so think about that. If you can clean up your margins and your productivity and, put another, say, $200,000 a year into your profit, at over 40 years let's say you s- you saved f- 25% of that. You put 25 grand away every year for 40 years, what would you have, right? Yeah. It's... I- you'd have what, $10 million? Yeah ... maybe 20 because of the interest stuff. A- and so you're not just creating frustration for the people around you, you're not just reducing value in, say, your business, but you're potentially costing your family millions of dollars worth of revenue that you could have just even if you just ran your business smartly and saved a little bit on the- Yeah on the way. And it's unfortunate to see that because those are the same guys. We do a lot of I don't know, we do a lot of... I don't call it marketing, but we do a lot of meetings and stuff. And so we bring in people, we do this leadership intensive meeting, and we bring in shop owners. And a shop owner'll come in and he'll bring his two or three kids in. So we've got a, a 25-year-old a 23-year-old, and a 19-year-old, and they're all there, and they wanna have nothing to do with Dad's business. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Nothing. They don't wanna be involved because they watched their dad work 80 hours a week and struggle to pay the bills and all of a sudden- Stressed out David Roman: of his mind. Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... yeah, and all of a sudden, they're now at an age where they could participate and Dad would maybe like them to participate, but they're not interested at all. Because they don't see any future for themselves in it. We didn't show them a future 'cause we didn't even create a future for ourselves. And to me, that's- that's kinda a l- that's a little criminal. So i- it would go back to, Cecil, how do you terminate somebody that's been with you for seven years that, has-- When you started the business, they were an essential part, and they've kinda worked themselves out of that, their attitude or even what they do, or they haven't kept up on their education or whatever. How do you terminate? Because 15 years from now when my kids are 25, 30, I want them in the business with me. I don't want them, I don't want them going out to do something else with somebody else. Yeah. One of the greatest joys of my life today is being able to work with one of my children, day to day. Yeah. And my second greatest joy is having all of my family near me and having good relationships with all of my family. Yesterday- Yeah ... it was it was my birthday. Don't, please don't do anything or don't send me any more happy birthdays. But- But I was able to have my family with me. And just have a, a nice evening. And the f- the cool thing is the dad is to sit back and watch the kids interact with each other and have good interactions, right? Of they tease each other, give each other crap, but it's all in fun. And, that's... A- and part of that's because I didn't... 'Cause when I was home, I tried to be home 'cause I wanted to have those relationships, and when I was at work, I tried to be at work because I knew that I needed, when I'm at work, I need to be at work so that I can have the home time that I need, right? David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Whoever might be listening to us, if you do have questions, we certainly would be more than happy if you'll put them in the comments to answer any of those questions. So- It's gotta be a David Roman: good question, otherwise I won't ask it. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, crappy question, we're not gonna- David Roman: Crappy questions are Cecil Bullard: ignored. No. No crappy quest- So how do you fire somebody? How do you actually terminate somebody? That might be, a good question. Yeah. First of all, you do not go into long, lengthy explanations about what they didn't do right. You're just opening yourself up for argument, pain, and I always just tell people, we've made a decision. We're going to be letting you go." Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And and, Now if, David Roman: In my state, if you don't have good documentation- Yeah ... it turns into now you're fighting them for unemployment benefits and this, that, and the other. In every state. Yeah. And th- and this is... if the person needs to just go, they just need to go and just pay up. It's whatever. Yeah, I don't care about unemployment. Cecil Bullard: And David Roman: we're having that Cecil Bullard: assist-- Yeah. I never cared about unemployment and I never used- David Roman: They raked me over the coals- I used that- in Kansas, let me tell you. Yeah. I never used that- If somebody actually dips into it. Cecil Bullard: Yeah, I never used that as a decision about hiring or terminating. If I need to terminate you and I end up paying unemployment, it's part of the game. Yeah. David Roman: But I will say that if you specifically have a job description You've got something outlined and they are violating whatever it is that you've got in writing with their- Yeah signature acknowledgement that they know that this is what's there, and you know that, hey, this is now going down this path. And it really for me, it's ... I'm looking at it two or three steps down. If I can sit down and coach this person and have conversation and go, "Hey, you're not doing this. I need you to pivot," then I'm gonna have that conversation, and it's not gonna get written down. However, if I see them going down this path that, hey, this is not salvageable, I need to let this person go, the first violation is a write-up. Got you. "Hey, you didn't do this. Here's your write-up." Usually they go on their own, but if they don't, it's just three write-ups and then boom, they're gone. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. David Roman: And- And then that's it. And then the minute- But- ... that the state sends me that letter- Yeah ... here's the write-ups. Boom boom. There you go. Fax it over. Done. Cecil Bullard: And, and- David Roman: I'm not paying squat. And Cecil Bullard: so I wanna make it real clear for anyone that's listening, you need to understand your state's HR laws because- Yeah. ... You need a, an HR professional in your state because each state has different rules about that. Yeah. And in Calif- I know California and Utah really well 'cause I've run businesses in both. I actually know New Jersey now pretty well. W- that's another long story- ... which we won't get into but I'll also tell you I'll never have an employee from New Jersey again. The rules are just too complicated. In California, I have to write you up three times for the same thing. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And I have to put deadlines in your write-ups I need, in two weeks I need improvement here, and this is the improvement I need to see, so that it's not ambiguous. Yeah. And you can't be ambiguous. It'll get you in trouble. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: It looks like we have a question- We have a David Roman: question, yeah, Cecil Bullard: from Adam ... that someone's gonna ask there. David Roman: Says, "I'm interested to know if you have a limit to explaining a procedure to an employee. I've had to tell one of my advisors to go over inspections at pickup, and he keeps m- he keeps missing it. What should I do?" Cecil Bullard: I... For me I have a rule, and my rule is when I determine that there is no more hope, I terminate the employee. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: So I don't I don't have somebody and I don't have a three times. Okay, I'm gonna explain it three times, and if you don't get it in three times you're done. I don't have that rule. As long as I, I believe that you can get it if I help you or someone else helps you, then I'm gonna keep you and keep working with you. David Roman: Yep. Cecil Bullard: Usually for me, maybe the fifth time is the time where I go, "They're just never gonna get it." The minute, the second I go, "They're never gonna get it," I terminate. I'm... And I don't keep people on because I've watched time and time again where someone said I'll fire him on Friday or next week," and they hurt their back or they- Yeah. Oh, yeah ... they tore their shoulder or they- ... dropped the wheel on their foot and broke their foot or- Yeah ... it just happens. This thing happens. And all of a sudden I've got an employee for life, or at least for the next year- ... that that I'm gonna end up paying for who I knew couldn't and wouldn't do the job. When you- Yeah There is a point and I gotta tell you, being the, like the director I am the direct guy, like I'm gonna sit down with somebody and say, "I've explained this to you four times and you're still not doing it. Why aren't you doing it?" David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Because it's almost never, "I don't understand it. I don't know how to do it." It's either you didn't- If it is David Roman: a competency thing- Yeah ... what were you doing during the interview process that you couldn't identify that this person- That I- ... can't read or write? Cecil Bullard: Can't... Yeah. . Yeah. Did you have them? I have them write out a paragraph and, and- ... on their own. Like the wife can't do it or the husband can't do it for the wife. Yeah. And like you have to write a paragraph on your own and what was your interview process like? You may have somebody that i- in most cases, I would tell you it's probably somebody that has... It's like the, "I don't wanna do it." David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: The... I had an employee that I decided we were gonna announce sales over the intercom. "Hey, Bob, we sold all the work on that blue Honda. It's due Wednesday at 5:00." And so I brought two of my employees in, and both great employees, and I said "Here's what we're gonna do, and what do you guys think about that?" And they were all like, "Yeah, okay, fine." So you want us to do it, we'll do it," right? And so I watched, and my one guy did, the other guy didn't. And I brought the other guy in five, five weeks and I said, in, in five days, and I said, "Hey, remember that conversation we had five days ago about announcing things?" "Oh, yeah." I said I've watched. You haven't announced anything. What's up?" "Oh, it's stupid." Yeah. "Oh, okay. That's fair. It's okay." I said "What part of it is illegal, immoral, or uneth- unethical?" And he went none of it." I said, "Okay, so now you're putting me in a weird position because I'm your boss. I've asked you to do something that's not illegal, immoral, or unethical, and you're telling me no or you're just not gonna do it. So you're being passive-aggressive. You told me you would, but now you're not." Yeah. "That's passive-aggre- can't have passive-aggressive people in the company," blah, blah, blah. Okay, I'll do it," right? And he goes out and I watch another week and he doesn't announce anything. So I went to our HR cabinet, I got out a resignation form, I filled it out for him, gross insubordination. Brought him in my office. I said, "Remember the meeting we had five days ago about the meeting we had five days prior about announcing things?" "Yeah." I said, "You're still not announcing things." He goes, "Yeah, I know. It's stupid." I said, "Okay, that's fine. I just need you to sign this-" David Roman: Yeah . "... Cecil Bullard: and and we'll be walking you out of the building." And he went I don't wanna quit my job." I said you already have." Yeah. "You're not doing what I asked you to do." And so what are you telling all the other employees that I have, right? What are you telling everybody else? You David Roman: can pick and choose what you wanna do. Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. See, whatever Cecil says doesn't matter. Yeah. I can't have that, right? It's it's no way to run a successful company. David Roman: Here's a follow-up to this. Is this one of those things in California where you need to have multiple write-ups before you're able to fire them? Three, I can just check our HR laws, as you said as well, good old California. Yeah, so- Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... David Roman: check your HR laws. Be very specific about what it is. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. David Roman: Consult an attorney. Cecil Bullard: But David Roman: if you have- I have one of Cecil Bullard: those- If you have an employee manual and they're doing gross insubordination, let's say that you had a, I don't know, you had a cell phone policy that was like, "No cell phones while you're working on cars." That's a safety issue. If someone violates that in certain states, I believe California, that's gross insubordination. That is terms for immediate dismissal if it's spelled out that way in your employee manual, and I don't have- It's a safety concern ... to go through all the BS, right? Yeah. There are things that wouldn't fall under that, and you just have to, you have to look in your state, Yeah ... and have... I really recommend, and we don't understand as shop owners what our liability is. We work on... I got a I was talking to these new clients, and they're basically a general repair shop, but they're like we got our Toyota, Honda price. If we're working on a Maserati, should our price be different?" I said, "You're working on Maserati?" I said- Oh my God, right? The problem is if one of my guys backs a Toyota into the rack, it's gonna cost me a couple of grand. One of the guys backs a Maserati into the rack, it's gonna cost me $40,000 to fix it, right? Yeah. And we don't understand the liability that we create for ourselves sometimes in this business. And so I recommend that everybody, whatever state you're in, that you have an HR professional in that state that can give you the proper advice so you don't get yourself in trouble because- And a David Roman: lot of times, like my insurance company will provide- Yeah some assistance- Yeah ... with like manuals and things like that so you don't get yourself in trouble, because they're trying to limit their liability risks a- as well. And also- Cecil Bullard: Assuming that you have that kind of insurance, and everybody should. David Roman: Yeah, every, yeah. If your insurance company isn't offering that, you need to question whether you have the correct insurance company or if you have enough insurance coverage. Cecil Bullard: Yeah. David Roman: That's an issue as well. But specifically dealing with this employee you need to find out whether this is a competency thing or a compliance thing. If it's just that they don't wanna do it because they're uncomfortable, that's probably what it is. They're just uncomfortable bringing it up. Okay, that's a training opportunity, and you need to think back, "Why did I even hire this person, or why do I have th- what value do they bring to the table?" And if the value is more than what you're paying them, obviously, then it's a net benefit to the company, but you need to try to keep them and go, "Okay, let me give you the verbiage, and then you change it up to whatever best fits you, but this is the verbiage you should be using in order to bring the thing up," because maybe they're uncomfortable bringing the inspection up at after or at pickup. If it's just "No, I think it's dumb," then like you're saying, at this point, it's okay now we have a problem. Cecil Bullard: You're also, there's a question of habit. So my habit is to say, "Thank you very much," hand them their keys after I took their money, and now I, now my boss wants me to add this referral process, okay? And I'm not thinking that. For the last five years, I've just handed them the keys and said thank you, right? And so when y- whenever you're gonna introduce a new habit into your mix, a new thing, you need 60 days, and you need 60 days of daily QC, quality control. Yeah. You have to... You literally have to look- Over the employee's shoulder, make sure that they're doing it. And usually you're in 30, 35 days if you've got good QC. You've created the new habit, and now it's the norm and not- Yeah ... the old thing. Often you have an employee that you have asked to do things, but they don't exactly understand how to do it. And you have not really shown them how to do it. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: And so therefore they don't know how to do it, and then they don't do it, and you go, "Why won't you do it?" And so I just wanna make sure that I'm... My wife tells me I'm a horrible communicator. I'm always... It's no, that's not what you said." I went to pick her up this weekend and I, I texted her, I, "I'm gonna be there at 2:30," and the night before we talked and then I said, "Somewhere between 2:00 and 3:00. We'll text tomorrow and we'll figure out, and I'll come get you." And so at about 2:10 I text her, "Hey, I'm gonna be there at 2:30." And she goes I'm already outside." And so I'm a terrible communicator. I don't communicate clearly, obviously, right? And so my assumption when I have someone that doesn't do what we've talked about, that I didn't communicate it well enough. And then my assumption the second time is that they don't really understand it, they don't really know how to do it, 'cause if they did, they'd probably be doing it. Yeah. And so I'm gonna go through that two, three, four times to make sure that I've taught them properly, that they actually know how to do it. I'm gonna sign them off on it, because I'm gonna watch them do it- Yeah ... the way it needs to be done. And then if they still won't do it past then I have a compliance problem, not a competence problem. David Roman: Yeah. And I think we fall into a trap ourselves where we communicate the way we would want it communicated to us, and these are completely different people. I'm a five percenter, like I... And I'm a high D. Like just tell me what the- Yeah, how much, how many people are like you and me, right? Exactly. Tell me- Cecil Bullard: There are like David Roman: five of them ... what the end goal is. What is it that you wanted to accomplish? And I'll make it happen. Yeah. I don't need the steps, I don't need you- Yeah ... to break it down. But most people aren't like that. And I had a manager that I worked under for years, and he used to tell me, "Break it down into the ridiculous." For some of these people, you need to break it down into the ridiculous, because if you don't- Pretend I'm a Cecil Bullard: third grader. David Roman: Y- yeah, if you don't do that, you're not gonna get the outcome that you want. You have a very specific outcome that you want accomplished, and these people just don't know the steps. They can't make the steps up themselves, or they're afraid to because they don't wanna mess up, so they just don't do anything. They freeze, right? So break it down to the ridiculous, step by step. Step one, do this. Step two, step this. And if you do that, then you will ensure the outcome that you want. And that might be all that's happening here is this person just needs to Give the person the verbiage, and then like you're saying, 60 days of, "I'm behi-" If you actually want it to happen, don't assume that the other, the, this advisor's gonna work like the other one. The other one was obviously was just like, "Hey, make this happen." Made it happen. But this one is not gonna be like that. It's gonna be, "I'm gonna stand behind you. We're gonna maybe step through this. What do you say next? Hand it, hand them the inspection," whatever the process happens to be. But you have to go step by step, and it's gonna be a little bit of work for you which I've tried to avoid. That's why I have a manager. Just give it to the manager- Yeah ... and go, "Hey, make this happen." Cecil Bullard: Make this happen, right? Yeah. I wanna make sure that every person that leaves has gone through the referral process and been asked for referrals, and scheduled for their next appointment. And I, it blows my mind because I just have these owners who tell me we can't, I can't get my people to do it. I can't I can't get..." And I'm like, "you... Yes, you can. I've seen it happen. It does work." Yeah. It's not impossible. David Roman: Yeah. " Cecil Bullard: Oh, no, this is impossible," "people won't schedule an appointment." Oh, if you ask them, if you tell them, they will, believe it or not, 'cause I've done it. And yeah I think that in most cases that we make a lot of assumptions, and we don't break it down into the pieces. And when we, whenever we make assumptions, we get ourselves in trouble, David Roman: right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. Absolutely. We still have about 10 minutes here. Yeah, if, so if anyone's online and they wanna ask a question you got me and David both here. If not, David, what what other questions have come up on the podcast recently? David Roman: They we've had one that, that has been setting me off. And this isn't... Now this has come up in the Facebook group, but then I've seen this in other industries, and it's been about parts pricing. So there's a bunch of stuff going on in the Middle East, this, that, and the other, and there are announcements coming out saying that, "Hey, the price of synthetic oil is going to skyrocket because it's just not gonna be available." It Cecil Bullard: has. Yeah. David Roman: The... Yeah. And so everybody's freaking out, going what are you gonna do?" And then I just saw a story the other day about a, i've seen two. We had a barbecue place here in Kansas City shut down, and the guy didn't blame his marketing. The guy didn't say, "Hey, my marketing sucks. I have great barbecue but nobody shows up at my door because I'm not telling anybody about it, and I'm in a terrible location, and it's really hard to get into my building," and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. None of those things. What did he blame? The price of beef. He said, "Man these beef prices are just out of control, and my margins are just getting tighter and tighter," and this, that, and the other. And then I saw another place in Texas, same line. "Oh, these beef prices are just out of control," this, that. And apparently, the beef prices wholesale haven't changed in the last two to three years. They're the exact same. They haven't gone up. They went up, but it was, like, two or three years ago they spiked, and then they've just been flat. And so these pla- these places and these shop owners are freaking out about cost of goods sold. Cost of goods sold are irrelevant to me because I just mark it up and sell it. That- I'm not paying for it. I've- My customer pays for it. I just mark it up- I've had- ... and sell it. Cecil Bullard: I've had- The David Roman: price is what I... It is what it is. Cecil Bullard: I've had people tell me recently, I don't know how to charge for oil because the price of oil has gone up so drama- three times what it was. And I'm like- It's okay ... how were you charging before, right? We were using a matrix or we had a lower price, right? You might have a lower price in. And all of a sudden they don't know how to price oil. If it costs me a dollar and I'm selling it for three if it costs me $3, I'm probably gonna sell it for nine. Yeah. It's not hard. To me, it's not hard at all. But I'm... I don't wanna close my doors because the price of beef went up. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Okay? I went over to McDonald's yesterday. I don't ever eat at McDonald's, but I got a dollar cheeseburger. I think it was, like, a buck 89. I was... Wait a minute. That's on the do- that's a dollar... it's a buck 89. Get a dollar- Yeah. It, the- ... dollar things aren't anymore. Dollar- The price of beef went up. McDonald's raised their prices. Holy crap. Are we really not smart enough? We're buying groceries. We're buy- we're getting gas. I went and got gas. It was $4.63. And do you think the people that sell us gas haven't raised their prices because the price of oil has gone up? Yeah. I mean- David Roman: It's the craziest mindset. I have no idea where these people are, like... are you nuts? It's... I can understand- He- ... the a bottom-of-the-line expense. "Hey, my insurance tripled. Okay, I'm gonna have to raise my prices because I need this percentage on my P&L to stay about the same, so this is gonna cost more up the top here." But a cost of goods sold? Like- Cecil Bullard: Yeah ... David Roman: the pri- whatever I buy it for, you just mark it up and you sell it. So whatever the price comes in at, it's like- Cecil Bullard: Who David Roman: cares? I'm sorry. And then if the customer says anything, you just, you blame something in the Middle East. You blame Saudi Ara- Cecil Bullard: You blame Iran. Yeah. You blame Trump. You, you- David Roman: Yeah. Just blame something that- I'm sorry ... you have no control over ... it had nothing to do with it ... because you don't. Yeah. I don't have any control of what they sell it to me for. Yeah. And neither do they because I still have to make my margins on it. So yeah, you don't blame the beef price. And what's insane is the, this guy in Kansas City that had to close his barbecue place The minute he got featured in In- he was on Instagram as one of those small business... He cleans windows, but he features these small businesses when he close, when he goes to clean their windows, and he wears the AI glasses, and he does this whole thing. It's a nice, it's a nice channel. It's all Kansas City businesses. The minute he was featured on this massive Instagram channel, he sold out of food every day for, from that point on until he closed his doors. For the next two weeks, he was... By 6:00, he was completely- So what if he raised his Cecil Bullard: price like $2 a pound or whatever? David Roman: If he had just raised his prices- Cecil Bullard: He'd still David Roman: be in business, right? Or he- Yeah ... I'm like, he didn't go, "Hey, if I just had better marketing. If I just had be- Yeah ... because these people found me, they'll probably come back." And it's w- it's insane to me. And he doesn't go "Hey, just a mile down the road is a barbecue place with a line out the door." Cecil Bullard: Yeah. " David Roman: They're paying the same price I'm paying for the beef. So you're done. You can't tell me these shops that are making three, four, five million, these shops that are expanding, they're hiring people, they're paying the same price as you for this oil. What are they doing?" Oh, they're marking it up. They're marking it up. Something, man. Yeah, they're marking Cecil Bullard: it up David Roman: because we're not nuts. Who the hell cares what you're buying it for? Yeah. You gotta... These... We gotta get out of this mindset. I have no idea. Cogs Cecil Bullard: of special- That's, it's the $29.99 oil change mindset. It's the, I have to have this loss leader that, that puts me out of business that gets people in my shop. And it makes me mad. I won't mention names, but we keep this myth alive because it gets us hits. David Roman: Yeah. Cecil Bullard: Because it gets us attention, right? I'm sorry. It's putting shops out of business. It's putting families at risk. It's... y- Your customers will pay what they believe there's value in, and they will not fight or argue about it. You and I both know that. Probably most of the people that li- will listen to this already know that. So if the oil price goes up, the price of the oil service goes up. It, i- it's what it is. If they raise coolant prices... I remember when you could buy coolant for two bucks a gallon. You're sure as hell not buying it for two bucks a gallon now. We used to sell it for six. Yeah. And and now, I don't know, 20 bucks a gallon or something. And so I'm not selling it for six. David Roman: It's oil right now. Yeah. But I'm just... it's... But two or three years ago it was freaking, Cecil Bullard: we David Roman: went through the- ... R1234yf. Yeah, we went through the whole- "What's everybody doing about 1234yf? I just don't understand. Blah, blah, blah." It's dude what Cecil Bullard: are you talking David Roman: about? Freon. Cecil Bullard: Freon back in the day. Just... Freon. Yeah, it just... Yeah. I... We were selling Freon for two bucks a pound when it was R12, and within three months it was $60 a pound. It, 'cause our cost went up dramatically and so the customer paid 60 bucks a pound. David Roman: And we're- And not only that the machines, the 1234yf machines- Yeah ... are so incredibly slow. Yeah. So it takes three times the amount of time that the old- They used to- ... 134a systems, you used to hit a couple buttons and it would zap through the service and then you're in and out. Where this one takes so much longer. So yeah, guess what? My refrigerant service, if you've got 1234yf and I have a specific line- Costs more money ... that we run performance testing, it's triple the price of the standard w- 134a system. And when they ask, you go, "Why is it so much?" It's 'cause you have 1234yf. You have the new refrigerant. Every car is gonna have the new refrigerant now. Yeah. So guess what? Every car is gonna have to be dealing with this. And I just wanna point this out. Lance makes a comment emotional discounting. The customer will walk in with a $10 Starbucks coffee. It... They will co- come in and complain about your price with their $10 Starbucks coffee. It's it's even worse than that, and I was telling this to Lucas. Da- DoorDash just reported profit reve- or record revenue- ... and profitability. DoorDash. They'll Cecil Bullard: pay for DoorDash. They'll pay $18 to get David Roman: a hamburger delivered. $18 for that $1.89 hamburger. To get that hamburger delivered to their- $18 because they want it at their door. While they're complaining about auto repair But then they complain about my $80 oil change. Yeah. No, no thanks. Get out of here. Cecil Bullard: No, thanks. David Roman: Nah. Just, just- People got money is all I'm saying ... and- People got money. You just gotta- And if the s- ... charge what you gotta charge. Yeah. Don't worry about it. And if we- They'll find a way to pay for it ... Cecil Bullard: if we at shops understood what our value is and what our liability is, we'd be charging more than we're charging now. Yeah. Yeah. Which is not... we don't have time for that discussion. In fact, we're gonna have to wrap it up. I guess we're getting to the end of this. Yeah. And we have important lives and other things to do. We'll have another one of these coming up in a few weeks. And David, thank you very much for being here, and thanks for your- Great conversation. I appreciate it ... questions and comments. Yeah. And you know I love you, brother, so- Yeah. You too ... take care, all right? David Roman: All right.

207 - You Can't Wrench and Run the Business Forever: A Shop Owners Turning Point

207 - You Can't Wrench and Run the Business Forever: A Shop Owners Turning Point June 3rd, 2026 - 00:49:01 Show Summary: Nathan Geransky shares his journey from running an automotive shop on his acreage to moving into a commercial location. Years of long hours and limited financial insight pushed him to seek coaching and change how he operated the business. By improving labor rates margins and systems he built financial stability and stepped away from turning wrenches full time. He discusses leadership team development and preparing the business for future growth. His story shows what happens when a technician learns to become a true business owner.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/about-us]   Guest(s): Nathan Geransky, Owner, Nathan’s Garage Ltd. [https://nathansgarage.ca/]   Show Highlights: [00:01:00] – Nathan launched his shop from a building on his property. [00:02:00] – Customers arrived at all hours because he worked from home. [00:04:00] – Hiring help revealed lost revenue hidden in daily operations. [00:05:00] – Running a business required skills beyond repairing vehicles. [00:08:00] – A labor rate increase improved profits without customer pushback. [00:11:00] – Coaching helped build a $100,000 operating reserve in months. [00:16:00] – Better margins and scheduling changed his approach to ownership. [00:20:00] – The new location increased visibility and attracted new customers. [00:26:00] – Personal thank you cards strengthened customer relationships. [00:38:00] – Nathan is preparing the next generation to lead the business.     In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/5G4i75jw-no [https://youtu.be/5G4i75jw-no]   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  * Want to learn more? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/] * Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/business-assessment%7C] * See The Institute's events list: Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/upcoming-events] * Want access to our online classes? Click Here [https://www.gearforshops.com/pages/course-library] ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com [marketing@wearetheinstitute.com].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Welcome, Nathan. It is good to have you here with me. Good morning. Nathan Geransky: Thank you. Big introduction. For a little Jimmy Lea: guy. Yeah, man. You've done a lot over the last little bit. You've really spread your wings and gone the distance. It's amazing to hear the growth. Nathan Geransky: Yeah, it's been a journey for sure. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How long have you been with the institute? How long you been with coaching and training? Nathan Geransky: Just about a year now. Jimmy Lea: Oh, congrats, bro. Nathan Geransky: About a year. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That is awesome. All right. Let's go back in time, Nathan. Let's talk about the past. How did you get into the automotive industry, the automotive aftermarket? Nathan Geransky: So I was I was working in another shop and they kinda... It got slow there, so I went to- I've always been an automotive guy, so I've worked at Ford for many years and been doing it all my life. Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... Nathan Geransky: so this other shop I was working at, they kinda got slow, kinda lost my job, and I had an acreage and a shop there, so figured start, I'll work at home until I find a job. So I looked around a few times. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nathan Geransky: No jobs, and started on my own. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. So this is the residential cul-de-sac you were in. You had an acre. You had a- That's right ... shop on the- Nathan Geransky: Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: w- like a two bay or a three bay? What did you have there at- It was a- ... Nathan Geransky: the Jimmy Lea: back of the house? ... Nathan Geransky: a 30 by 60 shop. It's on three acres. Oh. So it was on acreage. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Nathan Geransky: So fairly big shop. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that is a big shop. And so you're working from home. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Tell me about that challenge. Nathan Geransky: So right at first it was figuring out what parts and everything. So I'd work in the morning, figure the cars out, go get the parts all afternoon, work till 10:00 o'clock at night, puttin' the cars back together. Oh Jimmy Lea: my gosh. And a lot of us work remote, so we're able to work from home. Yeah. Me being one of them. Yeah. Now you're working from home. Were there any challenges you faced by having your garage in the backyard? Nathan Geransky: Customers, they're like, "Oh, you're here," so they come any time of day, like drop off a car at 10:00 o'clock at night, or they'll expect payments. Like they'll come out at 7:00 o'clock and run your payment through, right? Or whatever, but- 24-hour garage. Jimmy Lea: It's true, because you were there. You were available. They're coming directly to you. Yeah. They thought, "Oh, no, he lives here. Yeah, no, I can come any time." Yeah. Oh my gosh. So how long did you operate out of the backyard? Nathan Geransky: Just until a month ago now, when we moved to the new shop. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. How many years were you operating from the house? Nathan Geransky: Seven years. Jimmy Lea: Seven years, wow. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Your neighbors must have loved you. Nathan Geransky: They did, except for one guy. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. So how many bays did you have in your garage, 30 by 60? Nathan Geransky: Two bays. I had a wheel alignment hoist, which I'm still using, and another two post hoist. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Okay. Nathan Geransky: S- other side, Jimmy Lea: nice. Side by side. Oh, wow. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Wow. And w- you went from... So were you parking car... you say you had three acres. Three acres is huge. Yeah. It's a lot to- That's a lot of- Nathan Geransky: Yeah ... l- Jimmy Lea: lot of property. And- Were you parking cars all over your backyard? Nathan Geransky: Yeah. And then, so I had at one point in time probably 30 cars waiting there. Oh my gosh. And then the county came- ... "Hey, you got too many cars." So I learned how to schedule slowly. 'Cause people drop it off, says, "Get to it when you can," so I did, and then ended up being a pile of cars. Yeah. Before you know it, it goes from one car that's waiting to seven to 19 to- Yeah ... 30. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Nice. Packed double rows. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. So what were some of those biggest challenges you were facing as a shop owner working out of your house, working out of your backyard? Jimmy Lea: So I- What were some of the biggest challenges? Nathan Geransky: Parts and I guess mechanics. So I hired Noah, my son, for do administration because he was, Actually, I hired my other son first, Justin. He's a journeyman, so I needed more help there, so me and him worked together about a year or so, and then hired Noah because when parts, when customers come back for repairs and they're like, "Oh, we put this part on for warranty, but we didn't ever charge for it." So we're like, "Okay we are charging you this time." So hired Noah to... His wages paid for all his parts we missed putting on vehicles or building out vehicles. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah, he caught everything. It's- But just even catching that paid for his wages. That's amazing. Oh, for Nathan Geransky: sure. Yeah. So we're l- in a losing battle, right? Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. No, yeah. Yeah. And what about all the core returns? If you're not getting credit for the returns. Nathan Geransky: Yeah, that too. Yeah. We probably lost a lot there too, yeah. But- Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no. But now you're, you've captured it. Nathan Geransky: Swapped around. Yeah, you bet. Jimmy Lea: Oh, man. So what's one of the biggest, And not, maybe not the biggest, but what's one of the hardest parts about going from being a technician in the business to being the owner and working on the business? Nathan Geransky: Ha- I guess challenging because I can fix vehicles Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... Nathan Geransky: but to run it, like I've never ran a a business, I guess business-minded, but not, never went to school for anything, so you always struggle and worry what, Yeah, it's a challenge for sure. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. It's easy working on cars. It's harder- Yeah ... it's a different skill set to work on your business, right? Nathan Geransky: Yeah, definitely. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, man. So what was w- what was one of those challenges that you faced in making the transition? What was one of those skills you had to learn from being a technician and turning a wrench to being an owner and sit in front of a keyboard? Nathan Geransky: I'm still learning. So biggest thing is working for my business or working on my business, not in my business. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Nathan Geransky: Mentally challenging, still work in progress, but we've come quite a ways. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Yeah. That is true. That is true. Nathan Geransky: Maybe not Jimmy Lea: answering the question fully, but- And there are different seasons. No, you totally did. Okay. Yeah. There's different seasons that we operate in. So y- there was a season where you had to be the technician, there was a season where you had to be the technician and the owner, and as you- Yeah built up your business, you were able to take those steps to become the true full-time business owner. How often are you turning a wrench these days? Nathan Geransky: So now s- since we moved to the new shop I haven't done anything in the wrench. Oh. So I left my toolbox at the other shop. Did you leave your toolbox at Jimmy Lea: home? Nathan Geransky: Yeah. So Jess was like, "You're not bringing your toolbox to the new shop." So it's there. Out of the Jimmy Lea: way. Nathan Geransky: So it's mentally, The other day I was trying to find, get something and I told the o- all the guys to lock their boxes up. So on a Saturday I came in here, I had no tools. Yeah. What- Jimmy Lea: So I was like, "I can't do anything." No. Yeah. Of course you couldn't. No, you, you c- if you wanna work on your own cars, go back to your, Yeah, go back to my old job. Yeah ... go back to the house. Nathan Geransky: That's what happened. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's funny. That's funny. All right. Y- switching f- from technician to an owner, a different skill set. Y- you've a very technically trained, cars spoke to you. You're making that transition to business owner. What was one of the hardest things for you to adjust at first? Was it you raising prices, managing people, or trusting your financials? Nathan Geransky: Probably a combination of all of those. You're you're managing people, not too much that. I guess you're Yeah, just a little bit of everything Just a bit Jimmy Lea: of Nathan Geransky: financials? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, it's a bit of everything. Nathan Geransky: Yeah, for sure. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And all right- How you're figuring it all out ... so digging into each one of these I have a question for you about raising your prices, because you were at a certain rate and you raised it by $30 an hour. Talk, talk to me about that. Yeah. Riff on that for a minute. Nathan Geransky: Through my coaching through Chad we're, He was saying, "You need to raise your labor rate or you need to give Justin a lot lower wage, otherwise..." And he's "I don't think he'll stick around for that because even though he's your son." So yeah, I raised my rate like 30 bucks. I was worried about customers because you think maybe they can't afford it." And, but then you realize they're coming back from holidays, and I'm not going on holidays. So you raise it up, and surprisingly nobody batted an eye. They didn't even question the labor rate, nothing. Over a couple more times they came over "Oh, your rate went up." I said, "Yeah, it went up to the amount." And yeah, it was crazy. I was... That was the biggest surprise, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Isn't that amazing? Nathan Geransky: People didn't care. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They didn't care. So all the fear was where? It was inside your own head. Nathan Geransky: It was in me, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. But and the beauty of that is you analyzed the business. You looked at your business, you looked at your expenses, you looked at your overhead, you looked at all of what it cost you to run your business, raised it by $30 an hour to cover the business so that you- Yeah could have the life that you needed, and Noah and Justin, and is there anybody else on the team? Don't you have a few more people? There's Nathan Geransky: two others. Yeah, Dawson and Arthur. Jimmy Lea: Dawson and Arthur. Yeah. So you raised your labor rate so that as a business you could survive, as a business you could provide- for not just yourself, but for the- No ... entire team. And that's essential. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That's so important. So what made you decide to reach out to the institute? Nathan Geransky: So we're, They had phoned before, Michael had phoned before, and I was like I think we're doing pretty good in the business, and we're all... We've been doing it for seven years, and how hard can it be, right?" Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. And then last year we're, About about this time last year we're like, "This is getting... We're making money, but we don't have any money." So we're like, "Okay, we need to figure this out." So that's when I reached out to the institute and got a plan and went from there, and it's been amazing. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. That's good. And we'll give a shout-out to Michael Wiltrout. In the past, he has been a partner and owner of four different shops in the Arizona- Okay ... area. And so w- y- you connected with the right guy at the right time, and I'm sure that you guys had some phenomenal conversations talking about your shop, your business, what you were doing. A- and he's got the chops. He's been there. He's done that. Yeah. He can talk to what you're going through and what you're doing. So I'm sure a lot of that- Great guy ... resonated real strong with you. So when you connected with Chad, what were you hoping that coaching with Chad would help fix? Nathan Geransky: Just how to run my business correctly and be more financially s- secure, and- That's Jimmy Lea: important. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. That's, yeah, that's very important. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So h- how long did it take you? What was that realization of, "Oh my gosh, I, I think this is actually working. I think I can see that we're, we have money. We have money- Nathan Geransky: yeah ... Jimmy Lea: not just on the books, but we have money." What was that point for you? What did that look like? Nathan Geransky: So when we started with it, it was I think I've said this before even, but so our books were, they were okay, whatever, but we had we had no money in the bank and like we were struggling along. And then within about four or five months we had, with adjusting our margins and everything and increasing the labor rate, we put $100,000 in the bank for operating. Jimmy Lea: Holy cow. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. So it went up quickly and it was, yeah, amazing Jimmy Lea: That is Nathan Geransky: awesome Before I was happy, I'd... Before I'd had 20,000 in the bank, I was like, "Oh, we're doing good." Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, yeah. That first month when you have 20,000, it's like an eye-opening, "Oh my gosh this is working." Yeah. And then you look up- Yeah ... two months later and you're like, "Oh my gosh, we have 100,000." Nathan Geransky: Yeah. That was crazy. Jimmy Lea: That is cool. Congratulations- Yeah ... bro. That is very cool. Talking about the moving of your business, John Beasley is totally commiserating with you or loving on you in that residential area. He started in residential as well many moons ago. Had people showing up eh, on days when he was closed and walking around his house. Nathan Geransky: Oh, yeah. Jimmy Lea: And John, y- clearly they had to be on the outside of the house, right? There's nobody coming inside your house. No, nobody. Even though they think that's your office. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. No, my office was always in the shop, so nobody ever came in the house, but. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, that's wild. Wife Nathan Geransky: was like, "Who's here now?" I was like, "Oh, just another customer dropping off in the evenings or Sunday afternoons." And we have company over "Oh, that's a customer coming again." Jimmy Lea: Yeah. We should be happy Nathan Geransky: now. Which Jimmy Lea: we love. Yeah, no, Nathan Geransky: it's good. Jimmy Lea: I love being able to drop off late at night. Yeah, Nathan Geransky: for sure ... Jimmy Lea: John says, "Yeah, it was just a duplex, much smaller scale." John, I feel you on that. I- Yeah ... I love dropping mine off late at night. And the key box, oh my gosh, I love the key box. I love filling out that- little envelope putting it in the box because I... There was a period of about four or five years, Nathan, that I don't even think I saw my, the shop owner or even any of the staff, 'cause I would drop it off late at night. Yeah. And they would do the work and, Yeah ... I would pay over the phone and- Yeah pick it up two, three days later, late at night- Yeah ... or something like that. And, Yeah ... in a residential- I've had that Nathan Geransky: before too, yeah ... oh my gosh. Couple customers didn't even know who they dropped off, Jimmy Lea: like- But in residential, that could be a nightmare. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That could be a nightmare. Here you are, 10 o'clock at night you're laying down in bed. You- it's bedtime and you got people dropping off their car. Nathan Geransky: They just put the keys on the floor mat and go. Like- ... we were on acreage, so it was pretty safe. That's what they did Jimmy Lea: yeah. So what was one of those first things that, Working with Chad, what was one of those first things that he challenged you to change in your business? Nathan Geransky: I think the first thing was labor rate. Really? Yeah. Okay. And he did that because he could see that the business just needed a bump in the labor rate- Yeah, for sure. Yeah ... and he knew that Justin needed to make some more money. Yeah, for sure, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. When you raised your labor rate, what were you expecting to happen? Nathan Geransky: I thought we'd be slower. Maybe our customers would complain about it or they'd ask questions on the bill, right? "How come there's so much more money?" or whatever. But when Chad explained it to me, you raise your labor rate up, and you have... say you have a two-hour job You're only going up a few dollars or an hour job, right? Yeah. Top 50 bucks. So people sorry, people probably don't even hardly notice a little bit, like $30 is quite a bit, but they're not gonna question too much. And when you get the big jobs, like eight, 10 hour jobs, they're like, "Okay." And then they kinda realize it's a bit higher. But the just day-to-day jobs, people didn't seem to care too much. Jimmy Lea: No. And add to the bo- it added to the bottom line in a hurry, right? Oh, yeah. Which is- Big time ... Nathan Geransky: great. Yeah. S- Jimmy Lea: so le- let's use some fake numbers, but, Sure ... somewhat real. If we're talking about a two-hour repair order, let's say that's around $600. Does that sound about right? Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: So at a $600, your increase made it $660. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. So $60, right? Yeah Jimmy Lea: That's a nuisance increase in my book. Yeah ... it's just a, "Oh, okay. Yeah, everything's going up." Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Shoot. Have you seen hotel rooms now? Nathan Geransky: No, I know. Jimmy Lea: I agree with you. Even Motel 6 is 150 bucks a night. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: All your Hiltons and Marriotts are over 300 a night. It's... Ah, man. I know it's ridiculous. So how has the institute and how has Chad helped you move from reacting to problems to managing the business more intentionally? Nathan Geransky: Through, your parts and margins, we've learned about, more about that, and scheduling. It's helped a lot with sched- scheduling. And just revamped everything from being a mechanic point of view to a owner point of view. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Isn't that wild? Y- and all those days you worked at the other shop, and you're working on Fords, and you're thinking, "Oh, this owner, he's putting all this money in his pocket. Oh, he needs to get more cars in here." "I could work on more cars." Now you're on- Yeah ... this side. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Now you're the owner. Now you're the one that has to put more cars in the bays and- Nathan Geransky: yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So how important is that for your team to understand the financials of the business as well? Do you have a different perspective on that now that you've been Nathan Geransky: on- ... the Jimmy Lea: other side, and now Nathan Geransky: you're the owner now? So I think the team has some- somewhat... i've shared my financials with them, and they're like, "Oh, we're doing good." I said this is why we're doing good, because we're... We have our labor rate's better, our mar- margins are better, and this is why as you go through your jobs, you need to make sure you're writing everything down and your stories are correct so we can bill correctly. And it all results to you getting more money at the end of the day." So a teamwork, and that's how I've always addressed it. So everybody works together, and everybody makes money. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nathan Geransky: It's not all about me making money. It's about everybody making money, Jimmy Lea: yes. It's important we all Nathan Geransky: make money. No, and everybody to be successful. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, 100%. 100%. Yeah. So do you feel like you look at your team differently now than you did a year ago? Nathan Geransky: Yeah, probably. Yeah. And do you feel like your team is looking at you differently than they did a year ago? Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. But... and d- what do you, what would you attribute that shift and change to i- in yourself? Just learning more about business and through coaching and- yeah, it's- Jimmy Lea: and Nathan Geransky: leadership all, all together. Leadership, Jimmy Lea: yes. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: It just sounds like you have grown so much tremendously in your role as a leader here at the shop. I would say that your team is looking at you more as a leader than they ever have before. Nathan Geransky: Yeah, they have. Yeah, they are. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Congratulations on that. And that's a big transformation for you to make and to grow. How have you changed? How ha- how do you view yourself today versus what you, who you were a year ago? Nathan Geransky: It's a hard challenge or hard vision, I see myself more as a manager now or owner-operator, right? And like I'm in charge of a big, like a big business now, right? So it feels like a big business. Yeah, so it's been mentally challenging, and you're figuring out where I st- I- where my role is, right? Or how I manage people and everything else. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It is. It's a big change that you go through, and Chad's giving you a shout-out here. That Nathan is humble. He's becoming involved with BNI and NAPA AutoPro, becoming a spokesperson for the industry. Thank you for doing that, Nathan. That's from Chad, your coach, so he- Yeah ... he knows who you are as well. Oh, thank you. Yeah, Nathan Geransky: for sure. Jimmy Lea: So you've now- And- ... moved into a n- oh, sorry, go ahead. Nathan Geransky: I said he's been an amazing coach. Yeah, I've always, every time I talk about business or whatever, I said, "Yeah, I got this great coach, Chad." He's I bring him up all the time. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Spread the word. We need more shops- Oh, yeah, Nathan Geransky: I do. Yeah. For sure. Jimmy Lea: Chad needs more shops to coach. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: He'd love it. Bring it on. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Bring it on. Nathan Geransky: Tell everybody, you, everybody needs a coach. Jimmy Lea: Everybody needs a... that's so true. Yeah. That is so true. Everybody needs a coach. Everybody needs someone to hold them accountable and inspire them towards r- achieving their goals. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's good. So you've just recently moved into the new location. Did you say a month and a half now? Nathan Geransky: It'd be a month. This week is a month. Jimmy Lea: This week is a month. Oh, congratulations. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Oh, thank you. Jimmy Lea: What has surprised you most about moving into this new location? Nathan Geransky: The amount of, So my customers that have been with me for years they're happier now because I'm on the main road. They don't have to drive three kilometers off the highway to go to my acreage. Oh, that's right. They said- ... "You're actually closer," so I didn't realize that. I'm probably five minutes closer to Sherwood Park, which is the next big town or city here. So- Nice ... overall it's been really surprisingly, everyone's happier Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nathan Geransky: A- and so- A lot more drop-ins off the highway too, 'cause it's more visible. Jimmy Lea: That's what I was just gonna ask. Yeah. What about your walk-ins? What, how, what are you seeing there? Walk-ins, probably about Nathan Geransky: 10 new customers from last month. People walk in- Jimmy Lea: 10 in one month? Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: How does that change the energy or the culture of the company? How does that change the energy inside your business? Nathan Geransky: It didn't change too much, just that we're now, we're... I guess we're more surprised that, or happily surprised, that people are coming in and noticing us. "Oh, where do you guys come from?" "We've been looking for a mechanic for a long time," some of them said, right? Or whatever. I was just... I've been in business eight, over eight years, and now I moved here, and they're like, "Okay, good." So couple of new guys have come in and got their stuff checked out, and yeah, so it's been good. Jimmy Lea: That is good. That's awesome. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And they would've never found you back in that residential cul-de-sac, so thank Nathan Geransky: heavens you- No, unless you... Yeah. So a lot of it was word of mouth before, so I've never really advertised or never cared to advertise 'cause I was so busy. Just word of mouth, and everybody's coming that way, right? Tell their friends. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. And word of mouth is powerful. That is very good. Yeah. That's great. And that's how it's been Nathan Geransky: great till now, Jimmy Lea: and now it's gonna become exponentially even more great. And speaking of marketing you... We have a marketing for automotive repair shops, we call it MARS, here at headquarters in October. Nathan Geransky: Okay. Jimmy Lea: You should really look at coming down to our marketing intensive. It's three-day intensive, talking all about marketing. So it's gonna be amazing. What is this? What was the finance like switching to the shop? Was it a fairly clean transition or was it bad requiring loans and such? Oh, this is from Nathan Garcia. Oh my gosh, Nathan Garcia. I thought Nathan, you, I thought you typed that in there. I was Nathan Geransky: like, " Jimmy Lea: What the heck is he saying?" What's going on here? So Nathan Garcia's, he's asking what was the financial... What was the finance like switching to the shop? Oh, from switching from the home business to the- Yeah ... the shop business, the brick and mortar. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. It was relatively painless because I had money in the bank. Jimmy Lea: So all my- Wait, so you... This is when you had 100,000 in the bank or what? Yeah. I mean- Nathan Geransky: Yeah. That's Jimmy Lea: right ... so you had to fund the whole mer- move? Nathan Geransky: Yeah. So I renovated this place. I probably put probably 40,000 or 30,000 into renovations, rewiring everything, and because it was just a lawnmower repair shop before. So I moved walls, built mezzanines, put voids in rewired everything. Yeah, so now we're down to minimal funds again, but I didn't have to borrow anything. We're all- Oh, yeah ... all our books are paid up. Everything's good just because I had money in the bank. Otherwise- Jimmy Lea: Dude ... Nathan Geransky: I couldn't have done this move. Jimmy Lea: That's Nathan Geransky: awesome. I'd have been out of- Congratulations I'd have been, I'd have been looking for a job. Jimmy Lea: And so would've Justin, and Devon, and- Nathan Geransky: Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: noah and- The Nathan Geransky: other Jimmy Lea: five Nathan Geransky: other guys. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Oh, you guys all would've been looking. Yeah, 'cause the county shut you down in being in that residential area, right? They're like- Yeah. They- We're not gonna renew your license anymore." That's right. So they said, "Look for a new shop, and when you do, then we'll worry about your license then." So they kinda held it in limbo. Wow. I'm glad you got in there. I'm glad that you've- Yeah ... seen success there. And you've made 100,000 before, so you'll do it again. Nathan Geransky: Do it again. Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And congrats- Nathan Geransky: easier now because we have systems in place. Well- We can- Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And what does the shop look like today? How many bays are you at? How many lifts? What does that look like for you today? Nathan Geransky: So we have three bays, three lifts in our new shop here, and we could use the old shop for, like I have a wheel align machine. I do ADAS calibrations and everything. So do all that over at the old shop, so we're kinda running both shops. So I guess moving from a two-bay shop to a five-bay shop now combined. So it's been pretty amazing. Jimmy Lea: That is very Nathan Geransky: cool And yesterday we're like, "We could use four more bays 'cause we have so many customers." Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, yeah. Now, so now you need to be a seven-bay shop. Nathan Geransky: Now we need to be a seven-bay shop, yeah. Jimmy Lea: Under brick and mortar, and then still have the- Yeah ... two at the house if you need them. That's the overflow. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool. Congrats. So w- are you expanding? Are you gonna grow? Are you gonna take the businesses next door? What what does that Nathan Geransky: look like? So the next door, there's a body shop next door which owns this whole building. So my building's a 50 by 50 shop. So 30 by 50 is the shop side, then we have a mezzanine and office space on the other side of it, Jimmy Lea: okay. So you can't take any more space. You're pretty well Nathan Geransky: landlocked. No, I cannot here, yeah, landlocked, unless I buy land beside me, which, another guy has it, I could buy from him, but it's got lots of environmental problems, Jimmy Lea: oh. Nathan Geransky: Maybe in the future, see how it goes. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Keep your eyes open. You m- might find another shop- Nathan Geransky: Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: somewhere in the area. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That would be good. Nathan Geransky: Yeah, my next shop would be at least five, 10-bay shop if I'm going again, Jimmy Lea: oh yeah, for sure. For sure. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. See how this works Jimmy Lea: out- so I- ... and go from there ... I read in your notes something interesting that you're doing in sending out handwritten thank you cards. Yes ... what inspired that? Nathan Geransky: So we're trying to be different in our shop, like community-based, right? And we're like... So we have, So all of our work orders are in a folder. They have Nathan's Garage folder all done up in our deckling and everything. And so every work order, people are surpri- like when your work order is done, we're not just giving you paper, we're giving you a folder and being professional. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Nathan Geransky: And so these, Like a postcard, we got a... There was a sale on postcards. We were like, "Hey, we should put this in there." And Napa, we had Napa brand it at all, so for our... If you like, for our warranty or "Did you know that your vehicle has three years, 60,000 kilometer warranty since it got repaired here?" And on the back of the cards, we write a note of thank you for whatever they came in for, your oil change or your diagnostics or tire changeover. So my wife writes them all out for me, and I sign them and we mail them out. Oh, wow. A few customers that come in, it's like, "We got mail." Where like they're all excited to get mail, and they're like, "Oh, it's from Nathan's Garage." They're like, "You guys are pretty awesome." Jimmy Lea: But That Nathan Geransky: is Jimmy Lea: awesome. That's good ... Nathan Geransky: I knew it'd be a good result, but I wasn't expecting maybe that good. But our people- Nice ... were excited about that, Jimmy Lea: oh, that's very cool. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: That's very cool. I'm glad that they're responding well and Nathan Geransky: enjoying it. They put it on their fridge and everybody sees it when they come in the house. Jimmy Lea: Hey, there you go. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. I... You talk about it, it was better than you expected. What's something that you have implemented, besides the postcards that you didn't think would make a big difference and it turns out that it did? Nathan Geransky: The postcards and I guess the envelopes or they are folders. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Nathan Geransky: People like, they're always happy to get... one guy was so ecstatic about g- getting a folder. That's what started this, 'cause we gave him a black folder at first and put his stuff in there, and he's "Oh, a folder." He's "We don't get these." So ha. So I'm, I made a whole bunch, like 500 folders and with our branded on there handed to all the customers, and people are always surprised and happy. You f- hand them a folder and your keys, and they're like, "Oh, this is professional." And they're always good results in that. And they're like, "Okay, this is not just a backyard garage or an ordinary garage," right? 'Cause we started at the other place already. Yeah. So now the new place, everybody's "Okay, this is..." I think that's a- It's Jimmy Lea: legit. Nathan Geransky: Yeah, it's legit. Yeah, for sure. Jimmy Lea: Oh, good for you. In Canada they have a little bit different program with NAPA. I- in the United States you're NAPA AutoCare, and in Canada you can be an AutoCare, but then there's the next level, which is AutoPro. NAPA Nathan Geransky: AutoPro, yeah. Are Jimmy Lea: you guys an AutoPro? Nathan Geransky: We are AutoPro now, yeah. So as of January we're at AutoPro. Jimmy Lea: Congrats. Nathan Geransky: So that's been great. Yeah, so they... All their war- labor w- and parts and everything parts and labor, three years, 60,000 nationwide And they'll... If you're waiting for your part, they'll put you in a hotel, they'll pay for your towing- Jimmy Lea: Oh my Nathan Geransky: gosh ... everything else, wow. Yeah. Yeah, Jimmy Lea: that's that worry-free guarantee. Nathan Geransky: Worry-free guarantee, yeah. And for the new vehicles, there's 10 year, 100,000... 10 year, 400,000 catastrophic failure, up to $5,000. Wow. Which is a pretty phenomenal new car warranty. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: A- and when you say new car warranty, like new to your shop or brand new 2026? What are you talking about? Nathan Geransky: New under 40,000 kilometers. Like brand new. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Nathan Geransky: Under 40,000. They have to register through you. We're supposed to do most of their oil changes, all their maintenance. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Nathan Geransky: And then if they do that, then they they get the warranty. Jimmy Lea: And did you say up to 400,000 kilometers? Nathan Geransky: Yeah, 10 year, 400,000, which is phenomenal. Holy Jimmy Lea: mackerel. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. If your transmission blows up or your motor blows up at 300,000 they'll reimburse you up to 500... Five, $5,000. $5,000? Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Oh my Nathan Geransky: gosh. Which is better than nothing. Jimmy Lea: Bro that's amazing. Yeah. That's awesome. Congratulations. I'm glad you're- Yeah ... with NAPA and NAPA Auto Pro program. They- Yeah ... they have a great program. They're gonna do you very well. Very cool. Yeah, Nathan Geransky: no, I'm pretty excited about it. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Let's talk about, It feels like I've been Nathan Geransky: starting my business all over again. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, right? Yeah. All the excitement and the energy- yeah ... that, that instills. Yeah. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Talking about you and Noah Noah's your son. He's working the front counter. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: D- how closely do you and Noah work together on your financials? Nathan Geransky: Very close, like daily So we're working it out Did you guys work with Dani on Jimmy Lea: your- Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Nathan Geransky: So we went from QuickBooks Desktop to QuickBooks Online with our bookkeeper, and then so Noah kinda took over that, and we're kinda working back and forth trying to figure it all out 'cause I used to like for financials was like, "I don't wanna deal with this. Give it to the bookkeeper. Deal with it. She can deal with the accountant. I'm gonna fix cars." But realizing it's, how important it actually is, and that's what it's all about. So we need to dig into it and figure it out. I need to figure it out, which I have. Yeah. It's come a long ways, for sure. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, I, and I'll bet there's a lot of technicians out there right now that are like, "Oh my gosh, I don't wanna do the books. This is something they hate to do." That's exactly what Nathan Geransky: I didn't wanna do. Yeah. Sure. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They, maybe they come in on a Saturday morning for a couple of hours trying to get it done. They're trying to do- Yeah ... the full week's worth of stuff. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It sounds like what you're saying is it's better to have a person who's able to do it for you if you're not the one to do it. Absolutely. Yeah. But even then, you need to have your fingers in that cookie jar. You still have to Nathan Geransky: get involved. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: You still gotta Nathan Geransky: be involved. Which that's my where I'm going now is where we always need to be involved with that. That's what I'm learning. So that's part of the- Yeah ... manager role that I'm learning to do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's the big nemesis that you're facing. It's the big- Yeah elephant in the room. Yeah. And how do you eat an elephant? It's one bite at a time. So now you're doing it. You're in there. Yeah. You're doing- Yeah ... the steps you need to take to get to that point where you can be the manager you need to be and the owner you need to be, the owner that your business demands. And that's so important. Yeah. And you recently joined BNI. I was a member of BNI for oh, two and a half, three years when I had a landscaping, house cleaning- Okay ... handyman business. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: What have you discovered so far with BNI? Nathan Geransky: I think it's the next step. I just recently joined got inaugurated or whatever the other day, like joined their group, right? Yeah. Passed all their, You bas- have to apply for it and make sure the right fit for your chapter. So I passed all that. So yeah, I just started. I think it's a good next step for my business to become more manager mentality, and looking working for my business or on my business, I should say. So yeah, I think it's a... That's why I joined it 'cause I feel it's the next best step, and referrals, and they give you more business, at the end of it. And more- Yeah ... helping make a community out of it, so which is great. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah, you will. You'll discover quite a bit of community out of it. Yeah. What I discovered is the more I was able to come in and give, to give knowledge- Definitely, yeah ... to give information, to give understanding, to give tips and tricks and reasons why, and this is for automotive you would say, "Th- this is what a timing belt is. This is what it does, and this is why it's important for you to go to a certified, a trained, certified automotive repair shop. And by the way, that's who we are. We, this is what we do." Yeah. So for those of you who don't understand BNI, they only allow one company, one business from one vertical into the chapter. Yeah. So Nathan will be the only automotive repair guy, person in the, in that chapter. They could have a collision person. They could have a quick lube person maybe. That might be a little bit Nathan Geransky: too close. No, I think it's all automotive is different. Collision would be, yeah, they would have a collision person. They have all your lawyers and financial people and bankers and- Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yeah ... Nathan Geransky: everything is... There's 34 people in that group, so it's a pretty big- Oh, it's a big group Chapter. Yeah, a very big chapter. They've already done over a million in referred business already this year. Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Nathan Geransky: So it's a- That's phenomenal ... quite a a healthy group to be into. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Nathan Geransky: And yeah, their motto is "Givers gain," so you wanna give as much as your information, like you were saying, help them understand what their car needs, right? Jimmy Lea: Yep. Nathan Geransky: Or what's their tips of- And maintenance, big maintenance stuff, Jimmy Lea: oh, yeah. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. So I think it's gonna be good. Jimmy Lea: It's gonna be really good. Nicole's giving a shout-out here as well for BNI. It's a wonderful for their shop. And Nicole, glad you're in BNI. Congratulations, that's awesome. Yeah. One of the things that I would love to see auto repair help educate the industry is a lot of people think, "Oh, my manual says I can go 17,000 miles before I change the oil. My manual tells me I can go 10,000 miles. My manual tells me I can go 9,500 miles before I need to service the oil." That's not true. Nathan Geransky: Because so if you look in your manual too, it'll say extreme circumstances or extreme duty, which is most of our cars, especially in Canada, you have such extreme hot, cold, and everything else. You... So basically our cars are running extreme duty all the time. Jimmy Lea: All the time. Nathan Geransky: So your maintenance is a quar- like probably half of what it should be per- Jimmy Lea: Yes ... Nathan Geransky: less time- Yes ... to say, less kilometers. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Oh, for sure. My- Yeah ... my father taught me to treat my F-150, my truck, and this is the way he treated his Ford F-150. He says, "I treat it like a Honda. Every 5,000 miles I go and get it an oil change, and it's always synthetic." Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Never conventional. He was always synthetic. I did that, and I drove that truck 225,000 miles. I sold it, and to this day I really wish I still had that truck. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: It was a great truck. And man, it just kept running and running. Yeah. So yeah, the more you can help educate the industry- ... not even just the industry, but the public. The more you can help- Yeah ... educate the public as to what they need to do with their vehicles, the better it's gonna be for- Oh, absolutely. Yeah ... Nathan Geransky: for you and for repairs Jimmy Lea: too. Nathan Geransky: And that's what joining BNI, that's my goal is to help people. People are like, "I just turn the key and drive." It's you need to do more than that. Yes. Go to Quick Lube, but that doesn't do you good. What about your transmission oil or brake fluid or all this other stuff people don't think about? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, it's- They Nathan Geransky: forgot about all those, right? Jimmy Lea: It's not the... Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So you talk about the extremes where you are in the hot and cold. Yeah. I grew up in Las Vegas. I... That was extreme hot. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: We had extreme hots. A- in fact, I would change my radiator fluid at the beginning of summer and at the end of summer because there were- Okay ... many days that we would be up there in the 110, 115 degrees, which is in the 40, 42 Celsius. Nathan Geransky: Oh. Jimmy Lea: Maybe 46 degrees Celsius. It's very hot, and I knew that radiator fluid, it probably didn't need to be done twice a year, but I did it twice a year. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Are you calculating Fahrenheit or Celsius? Sorry. Nathan Geransky: No, I'm my battery's running out. Jimmy Lea: Oh, no. Get it plugged in quick. Nathan Geransky: I'm trying. Jimmy Lea: So- ... let's talk about the future of where you're going here, Nathan, as we come in to land this plane. What does the future look like for you? Here you are a month and a half in your new location. You already need another four bays. What does the future look like for Nathan and Nathan's Garage? Nathan Geransky: Future would be, like I guess my sons would take over, Justin and Noah. And I would be more off-site, is my next plan, to be train them, which is Noah's. I'm training Noah already, or we're working together. And then Justin would be more of a leadership role. So yeah, just more, just progress along, see how it goes Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it Yeah The future is bright. It is definitely- Yeah ... bright. A lot of things happening there. So what would you say to a shop owner a- as we talk about things and go into landing this plane? What would you say to other shop owners that are on the fence about them getting coaching and training? Nathan Geransky: Coaching and training, it would be, It's changed my life, changed my business life for sure. More realizing that you need coaching is, unless you went to business school and you learned all that stuff already and then you became a mechanic. But I think from mechanic to being owner, I think now that I've done it, it's it's a no-brainer. You need to do it. And the correct coaching- Yeah ... like the guy that fits with you, right? Your, like with Chad with, he owns a shop too where you can relate. Not like some people are very schooled knowledge, right? Or like educated, which is good, but you need to be also down to earth terms, I guess you call it. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. You gotta have boots on the ground But yeah, so it's a- you've gotta be- That's right experienced it. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So l- everyone needs coaching, and you've gotta find- I would say- ... the right coach. Nathan Geransky: That's correct. Jimmy Lea: So how do you judge that right coach, Nathan? What would you give advice to let's say Nicole or Nathan or John? What would, w- advice would you give them as they're looking for a coach? Nathan Geransky: I don't know. I guess I don't know any other coaching, but sorry. This is, It's been a good fit with Chad, and yeah, it's worked out well. So I'm not sure. I've never experienced any other coaching companies or anything, but from what I've gathered and all the reviews or suggestions from the institute has been great. I think- That's awesome ... that'd be the way to go for sure. Yeah. Thank you. I'm glad you hit a grand slam here at your first go. You didn't know any other coaching companies. Yeah. I'm glad that you teamed up with us. I'm glad we were able to lock arms with you and help you navigate this industry as a business owner. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. 'Cause there are a lot of other coaching and training companies, and you gotta evaluate. Would that be a match? Would that be a fit? If everything is a party we don't need to pay for our friends. No. Yeah. If everything is a joke then no, that's not what we're here for. Yeah. If everything I'm doing is not increasing my business, then you need to look at a different coaching and training company. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: And yeah I'm so glad that you found the institute when you did so that we could do the things that we've done together. Yeah ... and Chad has been a major force in driving that forward. But he's clearly and still a backup singer to you, Nathan. You are the star here. You are the star, and you have done a tremendous job. Congratulations. In fact, Yeah ... chad gave you a shout-out here a minute ago. Nathan is humble. He's becoming involved with BNI and NAPA and becoming a spokesperson for the industry, so congratulations to you, Nathan. Nathan Geransky: Oh, thank you. Jimmy Lea: A lot of people are seeing what you're doing, and- ... and it shows. It's awesome. All right, last and final question here, Nathan. What are you most excited about right now? Nathan Geransky: Just moving forward and getting fit into our new location. Just progressing, it's keep on going. Keep growing- Jimmy Lea: Progressing, building, growing Nathan Geransky: yeah, building. You learn every day, and I'm, I keep learning. It's if I'm not learning, you're not living. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Amen. Amen, brother. Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. Congratulations to you, Nathan. Thank you so much. Pleasure. Thank you for spending the time with me to talk about your journey and that you're experiencing. And for those of you who are listening, if your story sounds familiar to Nathan's and this is something you wanna look at, the institute, when we sign off here, there's gonna be a QR code. So get your smartphone out, get the, get ready to scan this code. We can sit down and have a conversation and see if the institute is a fit for you. There are many who- Yeah ... come to the institute and wanna make the changes, but at the end of the day, if you don't make the changes, if you don't do the work, there is no magic bullet. There is no silver bullet that's gonna make things happen. You've gotta do what Nathan did. You've gotta sit down and stick to it and go forward and make stuff happen. So Nathan- Even at first too- ... thank you Nathan Geransky: so much for joining. So- Jimmy Lea: Go ahead. Nathan Geransky: Even at first too it was like I couldn't afford the coaching. It was like, or I thought, right? But now it's like I can't afford not to, so that's where we've come to. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? And Nathan, to your point, I'll bet there's many out there that feel the exact same way. "Oh my gosh- Yeah ... I just really can't afford to do it. I can't afford to do it." And then when they do it, they're like, "Oh my gosh, why didn't I do this sooner?" Nathan Geransky: Should've done it years Jimmy Lea: ago. "I should've done this- Yeah ... years ago." Yeah. "A year ago, two years ago-" Yeah. "... three years ago." Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Congratulations. And I hear that your future is bright. In fact, it's so bright I brought my shades for you. There you Nathan Geransky: go. Jimmy Lea: Nathan, your future is bright. This is gonna be awesome. I'm so excited for you. And for everybody who's listening I love this industry. I love what we're doing. As we lock arms together, we're gonna make a big difference in the world and in the industry. So Nathan, to you, thank you very much. You're welcome. And to you listening, my friend, thank you very much. Any final words, Nathan? Nathan Geransky: Just keep on going. Jimmy Lea: Keep on going. Hey, there's a little fish that kept saying that as well. "Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming." You're awesome. Thank you very much, brother. Nathan Geransky: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Take care. Look forward to talking to you soon. Everybody listening, grab out your smartphones, scan this QR code. Let's get together. Let's take those next steps in your business journey to become the shop and the business and the owner that your business demands. And with that, my name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and I'll talk to you soon. Thank you.

206 - Part 2: Using AI in Your Shop to Increase Performance

206 - Part 2: Using AI in Your Shop to Increase Performance May 20th, 2026 - 00:56:24 Show Summary: John Seitzer returns to break down how automotive shops can use agentic AI to improve efficiency and save time. He explains the difference between basic AI tools and systems that can actively perform work inside your computer. The conversation covers organizing files, creating customer drop off envelopes, building social media campaigns, and automating repetitive tasks using skills and projects. John also explains the importance of oversight and why AI still needs human direction. Shop owners will walk away with practical examples they can start applying immediately.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/about-us]   Guest(s): Jonathan Seitzer, Owner, Dempsey’s Service Center [http://dempseysservicecenter.com]   Show Highlights: [00:00:36] – AI tools are spreading fast across automotive repair shops [00:03:28] – John explains the three ways he uses AI daily [00:05:07] – Agentic AI gives AI systems arms and legs to work [00:06:20] – AI projects require time money and constant supervision [00:10:42] – Claude organizes an entire messy downloads folder automatically [00:16:11] – Shops can redesign drop off envelopes using AI tools [00:21:12] – QR code envelopes reduce overnight key drop confusion [00:24:05] – AI creates social media campaigns with branded shop content [00:28:27] – Skills automate repeatable daily tasks inside Claude [00:43:48] – AI works like an eager intern and still needs oversight     In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/bAchtVE0Klo [https://youtu.be/bAchtVE0Klo]   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  * Want to learn more? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/] * Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/business-assessment%7C] * See The Institute's events list: Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/upcoming-events] * Want access to our online classes? Click Here [https://www.gearforshops.com/pages/course-library] ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com [marketing@wearetheinstitute.com].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, my friends. It is good to see you again this day. Glad that we're able to join together and have this conversation. AI is taking over. No, not really taking over, but good night, it is spreading like wildfire. We gonna have a great conversation here today. This is part two of our conversation with John. This is gonna be awesome. But before we get into that conversation, I want you to understand, this is an interactive conversation between you and me and John. So to make sure everybody knows how to put in the comments into the comment section, we're live streaming on YouTube and Facebook and StreamYard, so I wanna make sure you know how to put in those comments. Go into the comment section, type in your shop name, your city and state. We'll give you a shout-out here for everybody that's on the live event. Get in there and get it done quickly 'cause it goes fast. It goes fast. So let us know where you are joining us from today. A La Part Deluxe. A La Part Deluxe. Tom, what is A La Part Deluxe? Is that the name of your shar- shop? That's awesome. And John's joining us from the surface of the sun. Oh, you're so funny, John. John is our guest that's joining us today. So those of you who are with us live, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your support. I, I hope we provide for you some awesome information. Sid joining from German Tech Motorworks in Louisville, Kentucky. Glad you are here, Sid. So glad you're here. In fact, we're gonna be in an event in Kentucky, hopefully in September, October, something like that. More details to come later. Go to our website, wearetheinstitute.com/events. You can see all of the events that are there and ready for you to come and join us as we travel all across North America, bringing valuable information to you as shop owners. Oh, and Peggy Belt, High Street Auto Repair, Jefferson City, Missouri. Peggy, so glad you are here. Thank you very much. Glad you are here. All right, let's jump into this. We're talking to John from the surface of the sun about artificial intelligence, and specifically today, we're gonna jump into that closed loop learning AI system of Claude. Is that your favorite to work on, John? Or- Jon Seitzer: Yeah, it's mine of choice for right now. When it comes to agentic AI, Claude is my agent of choice. In-browser it tends to be Gemini, but that's 'cause I'm a Chrome user. Jimmy Lea: Yes. Now I've been an, a recent adapter of Gemini in all things that I'm doing in Chrome and in email 'cause I have a Gmail account. And then Claude is my nemesis. I've been on it now for two months, and I tell you, I wanna just throttle it because I'm running out of credits way too fast. Jon Seitzer: That's, so that's interesting. I- I'd be interested to see what you're doing. We'll- ... I'll get into that in just a few slides here about what goes into agentic AI and how- Yeah ... it's different from some of the stuff we talked about in the last one. Jimmy Lea: Oh, this is gonna be awesome. I'm super excited. John, the floor is yours, brother. I'm so excited to sit at your feet and learn. Let's get into this. Jon Seitzer: Awesome. Welcome back to those of you who made the first one, and welcome to those of you just tuning in. My name's John Seitzler, owner of Dempsey Service Center here in Newark, Delaware. Prior to this, though, I spent 15 years on Wall Street working in technology and specifically delivering AI products as far back as 2019 back when it was just called machine learning. So I'm gonna put up my presentation, and we'll talk about today's topic which is agentic AI, which is just one of the last things I did before I became a shop owner, was introducing an agentic AI product into the market back where I used to work. All right. So quick recap. There are three ways I use AI, and it is rent it, I feed it, and I put it to work. Rent it is when I use AI in the tools I already pay for, like the AI in QuickBooks, in Microsoft Excel, in my shop management tool. That's AI you basically get with your subscription. And it is the easiest way to use AI, and it delivers some of the best quality of life wins. Number two is feed it. Take your tools that generate data, put that data into your large language model of choice, be it Gemini, ChatGPT, Claude or an open source model if you're really into this kind of stuff. And then look for insights. What can AI tell you? What can what can you learn from something that can get through the data quickly that might have taken you a long time and a lot of elbow grease analysis to figure out? And we did a few example of those around revenue insights. Today we're gonna talk about the third one. This is putting your AI to work. So put it to work. This is agentic AI. So we, you hear a lot of different terminologies and terms thrown out, and I'll do what I can to explain to some of these. If you think of AI or an LLM, think of that like the brain. An agent or an agentic harness is giving that brain arms and legs. It's instead of you bringing stuff and loading it into your eye, your AI, it is sending your AI out to data with a job to do and giving it the space to do that job. So it is... it's AI that works for you. It works on your computer, in your files, in your applications, which brings a certain level of risk. So there's a, there's a few steps you're gonna wanna take when you're starting to run these things just to... You don't wanna let an AI go running buck wild on your computer. Today is going to be mostly a live demo. I'm gonna run through a few different scenarios, some things I've done to use AI to improve things at my shop. And as I said last time, AI is not deterministic. Deterministic is if I do A, B happens, like flipping a switch for your light. The switch- the light goes on, the light goes off. It happens every time. AI is probabilistic. And what do I mean by probabilistic? Probabilistic is if Jimmy was to say, "Hey, John," I could say, "Hi" or, "Hey, Jimmy," or, "Hey, what's up?" That's probabilistic. There is no set response to a greeting. And you can actually do this with your AI to prove this. Go into ChatGPT and just type hi and see what it says, and then open a new one and do it again and see what it says. My guess is you're not gonna get two of the same responses. Let's do a few reality checks before we really get into this because these are very important things to understand. This tier of putting your agent to work, it is going to cost you. It is going to cost you in money and it is going to cost you in time. Why? Because in many cases you are accessing tools that are third-party tools that are not built inside of your agent, so probably these extra tools come with some level of a subscription and it is also going to cost you in time. N- you don't know it when you're doing this, but what we're doing when we're interacting with things like Claude Code and Claude Cowork is you're following many of the same processes a software engineer follows. You're building a folder on your computer and you're pointing your tool at it and you're working inside of your folder. That's how every computer application you use gets started. It starts as a project on a software engineer's laptop somewhere and this is no different. This is just a little more user-friendly version of it than my old software engineers used to have to do. So understand This isn't something where you just set, forget, and off it goes and life is easier. Especially at the start, you're going to have to put in the time, you're going to have to put in the work, you're going to have to babysit it a lot, and you're gonna have to be ready to spend a little bit of money to, to get moving. But once things are moving you'd be shocked at how how fast the efficiency gains start to stand up to s- stack up for you. Other thing to understand, this is what I use. And this might be important as well. First off, my computer is a MacBook, so I am... When you see all this, I am working on a Mac. A lot of developers work on Macs and when it comes to some of these programs like ChatGPT and Claude their desktop applications, Cowork and ChatGPT has its own desktop tool, they came out on the Mac first. I'm guessing that is because most of their developers are Macintosh. I know Claude Cowork has a Windows app now. I haven't used it but be aware that probably when new features are released, they're going to release for the Mac first and then flow to Windows. My LLM of choice is Claude, and my agent harness is Claude Cowork or Claude Code. I say agent harness 'cause this is literally a thing you're going to download onto your computer. It's a computer program. Claude Code, Claude Cowork. I believe OpenAI's is called Codex. Or there is a thing I think called the ChatGPT app. So this is a, these are apps that work on your machine. And then as always, if you have any questions or are looking for any type of support feel free, you can find me on Facebook or LinkedIn, you can send me an email. I'm always happy to chat AI with folks as we or as you start to learn these tools. But that said, that's my little spiel. We now have a little bit of time to work off on our demo. Let's start here. Like I said, the... This is my desktop. It's my MacBook Pro, one of my monitors. I- the first thing you should do when you're doing one of these tools, and real quick... Not that. This is the tool. This is Claude Cowork or Claude Code. This is the desktop app that I download to interact with Claude, and you'll see it's got three different modes. Chat, so if I do this, right? This is just what, like what it looks like on the on the website. You can chat with it. CoWork is where you start to use this to work in a place on your machine. And then Claude Code is the more advanced version of this. So today, we're primarily gonna be working in CoWork. Now, when you set up CoWork and you download this onto your machine and it is the same with any type of agent harness that you would get from OpenAI or anywhere else, you want to sequester it. This thing can, if you gave it full access to your machine, right? It's gonna tell you to... If you wanna work in a folder. If I was to do this and just give it access to my entire computer it... I could do that. I could let it go wherever. But understand, this thing is going to work in your computer the same way you do. That means it can delete files. That means it can change things. So what you want to do, and what I do anytime I set one of these up, is I set up a folder and I limit Claude to that folder. This is where you can work, and if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna have it do anything, I'm gonna make sure all of the things it needs to do its job are here, and it can go nowhere else, so it can't delete anything else on my computer. In this case I've set up a special one just for this this demo today. But let's work outside of it for just a moment, and let me show you what I mean by when I say your compu- this thing works on your computer and does stuff on your computer. I bet you this is a problem every single person on this call has. This is my downloads folder. This is every single thing, like when I'm browsing online and I have to download something, it all comes here, and there's a zillion things in it, and it's disorganized, and it's hard to find stuff, and I'm usually searching something. So let's make the first thing we ask Claude to do, and this is something any of you can do, pop in here and go "My downloads folder is really disorganized. Can you organize it for me?" And here we go. And it's gonna start to think, and now you can see it's gonna start running through here and, yep, it's gonna look at it, and then it's gonna start asking me questions about how I think it should be organized. 130 items. Shockingly, documents for my my shop. And it's gonna start asking quest- So how do I want th- it? So Claude is really good at doing this, asking you what you want. Let's go by category. If there are duplicates, put duplicates in their own. Put them in the categories, and off it goes. And it's gonna think for a little bit. And you may actually be able to see If we do this, downloads. Not yet, so it's gonna start thinking, but pretty quick here you're gonna start to see this folder change. Now again, all of you have a downloads folder on your computer. Any one of you can do something like this, and this is just to show exactly what it's doing. I'm letting it work in my computer. Here back in Claude World you can see it's running a bunch of commands and continuing to think. Thinking, thinking, thinking. And again as Jimmy said earlier if you have questions, if you're if you're running into any issues or if there's anything I can explain a little bit bre- better. Yes, Jimmy? Jimmy Lea: Okay, so question. First of all, rookie, only 130 in your downloads folder? Oh my gosh. Jon Seitzer: I, I- I have- ... organized it. It's- Oh ... my downloads folder's been organized for months. I disorganized it for this webinar. Jimmy Lea: Thank you for doing that. I feel much better now. All right to my next question. You're organizing your downloads. It's going by categories. I got that. Is it... Are you also giving it the ability to rename? It's not gonna rename it, is it? Or can it? Jon Seitzer: It could if I told it to. Oh, gosh. Okay. I've done that with, So every day I have a stack of parts invoices, and the parts guy leaves me a piece of paper. Every day I take all of those parts invoices, I scan them they go into a folder in my Google Drive, and then once a month I will send Claude in there and say, "Look at every single one of these, and title, and give them this naming convention." So it's like parts invoice, date, month, day, year. Huh. Jimmy Lea: And it'll grab the month, day, year off of the invoice number in that way? It'll, yeah, Jon Seitzer: It'll read the invoices. 'Cause, because I do it every day, the invoices are typically the date on them is all the same anyway. Yep. And yeah, it'll, It just, it does it for me. But it'll, it does what you ask. The only thing I asked it to do was organize the folder. Yeah. So all that's going to organize the folder, and it's gonna follow the, these three rules we set as it was asking me the questions. Jimmy Lea: Okay. So I really need your help on this download thing, because I have way o- way more than 130. Jon Seitzer: That's the beauty of AI. Yeah. It doesn't care how many you've got. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: All right. All right, brother. Jon Seitzer: All right. So as this is as this is working, we can potentially jump into another- One of our demos here, and I think this was a mistake I made. I'm using way more model than is necessary, so this thing's thinking really hard about how to do a really easy task. All so let's do a fun one. Who here has... Tell- in the chat, tell me if you recognize this, if you have one of these but with your shop on it. This is a nine by six drop-off envelope that I that we keep in front of the shop. A customer has to fill out all of this stuff, write what they want, sign it, throw the keys in, throw it through the throw it into the drop-off slot. And then in the morning we come in, open the envelopes, get cars checked in. Now, I hope this isn't unique to me, because I have lots of customers that see all of this stuff that we're asking them to fill out and read and go, "No." And then they just throw their keys in the box, and we get to go on a bit of a hunt every morning to match keys to cars for overnight drop-offs. So I thought to myself, I bet you there's a better way to present this information to customers, especially because I use Auto Ops, like I'm sure many folks out there do, and Auto Ops gives you QR codes that allow customers to do this do the booking and check-in from their phone. So let's see if we can't come up with a better envelope than this one. So what we're gonna do is I'm gonna go into Cowork. I am going to pick a different folder, right? So I'm gonna go Desktop, Demo, Drop Off Envelope. So now I'm telling it, "This is where I want you to work. This is where all the things I want you, Claude, to start to think about are," and I'm gonna tell it that folder. I'm gonna tell it's allowed to make changes to the things in that folder, and then I'm gonna give it I'm gonna tell it what I'm trying to do. And I've got a... if you weren't on the last one, I have a tool that allows me to just talk into my computer, and it types for me. That way you guys don't have to watch me hunt and peck and misspell things. In this folder, you'll find a picture of my customer's drop-off envelope. I want to come up with a better way to have customers give this information to me, and I want to utilize the QR code that I've also put in the folder- so they can, instead of having to fill anything out, they can simply put their keys in the folder scan the QR code with their phone, and then book their service through their phone so they're not standing outside in a cold parking lot trying to fill out an envelope in the dark. Can you read the envelope and then suggest an alternative that incorporates the important data elements of the envelope, but also has the QR code featured prominently and gives customers the choice of either using the QR code or filling out the envelope before they put their keys in it and put it into our car drop-off? So this is what I've done. I've given it exactly the tools that I want it to use. I've told it where all of the information is, and now we put it to work. So it's gonna start thinking. Meanwhile, our downloads folder has been organized. Oh, it found 195 items organized into 10 topics folders. Let's see. There we go. Downloads organized, right? Personal stuff duplicates, miscellaneous. We got stuff from vendors and, in X number of minutes everything is set and ready to go. Meanwhile... All right, so it's looking at the folder. It's looking at the QR code. It's recognized what it is. And also if we look back into the folder, so this is where I talk about some work you have to do, at the start, right? When it comes to this AI demo, I needed to make sure there was a folder for it, and everything I wanted to use was in the folder. So in this case, I had the QR code, I had the logo and then I also have my the picture of the envelope from before. We're gonna have a couple of questions. This is a nine by six envelope. I'm gonna say tighten the wording on the legal thing. Let's just go one color because I only have a black and white printer, and now it's going to think. And then at the end of this, what it should output to is a Word document that I could that would end with me being able to buy, at a much cheaper price by the way, a 9x6 envelope that I can then just stick on my printer and as needed, print out car drop-off forms. And while it thinks I'll say I know this is going to work because these are what our envelope forms look like now, right? We've got this, we've got our QR code, we've got all the important details if the customer wants to fill everything out, and a place for them to sign. And this is something we've been using for a while, and I have had all sorts of success and a lot less wild goose chases of me walking around the parking lot beeping a key trying to play match the car. Which is good, especially because, you think, "Okay, how bad is the problem or how bad is that as a problem really?" If you have a lot of fleet customers that have a lot of Ford Express transit vans, you know- They all look the same ... I have two, I have one customer that has two of the exact same kind of vans having two of the exact same kind of surface with two of the exact same key chains on the van 'cause they're corporate vans. Jimmy Lea: That's wild. Okay, so I have a question for you. And I know you're using Claude. Why do you prefer Claude over, say a ChatGPT? Jon Seitzer: So Claude came out with their the CoWork- ... program first. So what Claude first came to market with was something called Code, which is this, which- Super advanced su- it is, yeah. Really the irony here is CoWork is just Claude Code with a fancy UI to make it a little more user friendly. They do- Okay ... they both do exactly the same things, and I, honestly, once you start to get more familiar with Claude Code or CoWork and are more comfortable with it- Yeah switching over to Code is not, it's not a hard thing. Huh. Now it's totally different than Claude... There's two different types of Claude Code. There's Claude Code in the app, right? So they just put this in. It us- this used to just be chat and CoWork. Code used to live here in the terminal. Oh, God. And that was where it was very, you had to this was, you had to learn special commands to find your folder path names, do all this stuff. Yeah. Now we can use Claude Code inside of here, we can get all the benefits of it. But CoWork is just, it's a little more user friendly. You get things like this. Your pro- your, your progress tells you all the things it's doing- ... any additional context. All of the things as it's as it's kinda like working through it. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Very cool. Jon Seitzer: T-, so while we're doing that, how about we jump to get another demo started? So we're gonna go back to the desktop, back to the demo. Okay, let's do a fun one. All right. Social media post. Now I wrote that I was coming from the surface of the sun. Those of you ear- here on the East Coast agree with me, it's been very hot over the last several days. Let's say I've decided I want to run a special to try and juice some AC job sales and I'm going to promote it on social media and I'm gonna use a, an adorable picture of my dog. So what are we gonna do? We're gonna go to Death AI demo. So I'm telling Claude again, we're selecting our folder, right? Social media post. All right. Always allow. So this, so you know, so this is the image I'm going to use. Inside here I've got a folder called agent output. I'm gonna tell Claude to put anything it creates here. And then I've got this, which is my brand assets folder. Because we're working in social media, I'm, want to make sure Claude is writing in the voice I tell it to, so I'm also giving it a number of our brand assets and letting it have access to those in the event it decides it, it wants to use that. The next step this is where we talked about earlier, talking about extra spend when it comes to this stuff. So we're not just gonna have Claude generate an image, 'cause Claude can't. Claude doesn't actually generate images. ChatGPT and Gemini both have that feature. Claude is pretty much text only right now. So we're going to, we're gonna connect a couple of different tools to this. We're going to probably use Canva for it to take the picture of my dog and modify it, and then we'll use a tool called Blotato to schedule it to do the social media post. But let's start by telling Claude what we're trying to do. I want to increase some AC check sales at my auto shop, and I want to run a special promoting AC services on my Instagram. I want this to be a lighthearted and fun Instagram post, so what I'd like you to do is take the picture that I have in this folder of my dogs- And I would like you to take that picture and add a cartoon thought bubble with an ice cream cone in it. Once the picture is created, I want to post that to Instagram, scheduling it to run on Friday of this week, and the text copy in the Instagram post should read something like, "We know it's hot, and we want to encourage everyone to get their AC checked by offering a cool treat. Schedule an AC check between now and Friday, and you'll get a $20 gift card to our favorite ice cream shop, Dempsey's Ice Cream, in Newark, Delaware." Ask any questions that you need before starting, and put all of your outputs in the agent output folder in the social media post folder. All right. So this one's gonna probably take a few, but it's a pretty complex thing. I'm telling it I want it to create a picture, to post that picture to Instagram, and to use all the relevant the relevant copy, hashtags, all that stuff. So we sh- I still have to run through that. All Jimmy Lea: right. So while this is processing, did you hit the button? Are we going? Not yet. Not yet, okay. I was Jon Seitzer: gonna add something to the thing real quick. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Jon Seitzer: You add. Oops. Make sure you follow the brand voice guidelines in the Instagram post. All right, and away we go. Jimmy Lea: Okay, and the wheels are turning. Okay, so here's a question coming in from from Sheila Costa with Marin Auto out in Fairfax, California. I know Claude Work is super powerful, and I've been experimenting with it a little. Time may not be enough, but I wanna talk about how skills work in a practical way in our shops. Or do we need a part three to do that, John? We don't Jon Seitzer: need a part three to do that. I can quickly go through skills. So Claude has two different things, projects, here, and skills. And skills you can see customized here in the customize bank. So skills are they are... If you have a task you do a lot and it always follows the same step, creating a skill in Claude Cowork is a great way to give Claude the ability to go and run that skill without having to tell it every single time, "Do this." Now for those of you who were in the last chat, I talked about how I have a number of newsletters that get turned into a podcast for me every single day. Well- To do that, I created a skill called Daily Brief. The skill will load here, but basically what you wind up doing is you create a set of product project instructions for the skill and then it loads in here. And then if I was to go back into Cowork and do a new task, Please create my afternoon brief. And it'll start doing that for me too. So that is a skill. Skill is a repeatable task that you can teach to Claude, and it will give you the ability to run that task in a simple set of words. In this case, anytime I say, "Please create a daily brief, brief me," it, it picks up the context, and it starts to spit out the skills. And now what it's going to start doing is it's gonna go into my email, it's gonna look for my newsletters folder, it's gonna read all the newsletters, and then it's gonna spit out basically a script that I'll load into a different tool. Jimmy Lea: How does it know to go into your emails to get all the email? Jon Seitzer: It's in the sc- it's in the skill. So the- So you Jimmy Lea: taught it to do that from the beginning? Jon Seitzer: Yes. When you're setting up Claude, we start talking about the connectors right here in the customized menu. Yeah. So you can see these are all the things I have Claude connected to. So in this case, it's connected to my Gmail. So I've got another skill that I run in the mornings called Check In, and it will check... it'll go through my emails, it'll tell it'll try and, it'll try and rag state them for me. "Okay, here's important with action items. Here's something you might not have to worry about. Here's spam or something you don't have to worry about." I've also got a task list it reads the emails, and I can move things onto and off of my task list and things like that, just to try and, again, buy back minutes, right? I've got X number of minutes of the day. If something can summarize my email and tell me what's important and I don't have to sift through 30 of them, that's how we go. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Jon Seitzer: So when we talked about, earlier when I said that, there are a number of it costs money, right? I use because we're also a Fisher snowplow distributor- Yeah ... I use a tool called Apollo to help me keep on top of people in the area, businesses, that might be good snowplow sales customers, right? Landscapers that offer snow removal service school districts, government entities. So I'm, so Apollo lets me look for people with certain job titles in my specific area. I use Canva here. We should actually go back and see- How some of our projects are doing. So the newsletter, so here you go. All right, how- let's see what it came up with for our drop off envelope. So not exact- so it's not exactly what I would like, right? So it basically did a nine by six, but it would have me printing on both sides of the envelope. In this case, probably I didn't do a good enough job in, in prompting it. I can ask it. So here's what I'll do. I like the style, but can you modify it so that it is only on one side of the envelope, since I can't print on both sides of an envelope, and so it's in portrait instead of landscape? If you need to lose some of the legal disclaimer or data elements, then I'm okay with getting rid of some of them if it... to make everything fit. So we're gonna go back to there. All right, here we go. Oh this wants a list of things to do. Dog picture, agent output. So it this, when we talked about last thing about memory, right? It remembers that a chocolate lab is our mascot. So it's thinking. So I'm just, I'm gonna... Typically I can just say yes. Yes, use this photo. I didn't mean to say dogs. It should have only been a singular dog. I'm gonna say 5:00 PM, because I'm not actually gonna post this, because I'm not actually going to. Call the shop. Polish it to the brand voice. All right, and it's gonna get back to work. Meanwhile it's mad 'cause the newsletters are large. Still thinking. One face portrait. Yep, so we're gonna try again, and then we're going caption. And it's thinking again. Now, now, You can see we're running three pretty process-heavy things at the same time, and I could run as many of these, a- as I can do. But worth mentioning, again, I'm on a specific plan. This is the max plan. And this is costing me in usage. So let's see where we are. So this current session, I'm at about 10% of my usage. So I think- Jimmy Lea: How are you not running out of tokens? ' Jon Seitzer: Cause I spend a lot of money on tokens. Okay. So there are a few different there are a few different plans when it comes to Claude. There is the 20 d- there's a free plan, obviously. There's a $20 a month plan that has a certain amount of usage. There's, I believe, then $100 a month plan, and then there's a $200 a month plan. Because I do coding and stuff in my spare time, and I'm building other stuff, it just makes the most sense for me to spend the $200 a month. But to everybody on the call, I spend $200 a month on Claude because I get $200 worth of value, from Claude. N- there, in no circumstances should you be doing that if the, you're gonna use it once or twice a week or a few different times a month to try and do some extra stuff. I always say start at the lowest tier you can and see where you hit your limits. Yeah. And if you're hitting the limits, jump up one tier and go until you hit that limit. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. I really want you to look at what I'm doing, 'cause I'm running out of tokens every time I run a cycle. It runs out within two, two and a half hours, and I have to wait- Oh, yeah ... for another two- Yeah ... two and a half hours for it to kick back in and keep going again. So- All right. So here's what we're doing. We'll have to talk. I'm gonna take you up. I'm gonna take you up on that half-hour conversation. Jon Seitzer: It is here, and I am here for you. But, hey, look at this. Ooh, I actually like this one more than I like the one that I came up with the first time. So here we are, a 9x6 envelope. Nice. People can scan. They can give that. And then yeah. So again, what did I... What do I get out of this? One, I can buy envelopes and print them. Yeah. The envelopes that I print are, they're my envelopes with my logo and my QR code, and I'm not beholden to a printing company that is gonna charge me, several hundred dollars to custom print- Custom print me an envelope when the only thing they're doing is putting my shop's name on it, and everything else is ex- the exact same every other shop gets. So this is something that now has made my shop unique. Jimmy Lea: John, that's awesome. And I do agree. I like this envelope. This looks very good. It's easily usable, something that everybody can jump in and start using. Still thinking on that. Is that the skills running, or which one did you jump into? Jon Seitzer: Oh, so this is... So this, now what it's doing so now it's going into, So this is multiple tasks, right? So now I'm guessing it's going into Canva. It's looking at my brand. Save to my a- so here we go, it just finished my picture. Okay, so this is the o- AI will also check your work, so when you're doing a f- if you're doing something fun like a cool webinar for all of your new shop friends, if you, and you say something contradictory like you're gonna run a special from today to Friday, but you're not gonna post about it till Friday- AI's gonna call you out about it. Are you Jimmy Lea: sure Jon Seitzer: you wanna run it till Friday? Yeah, you know what? We'll run it till next Friday. AI doesn't need to know. But- Yeah ... we can jump into the thing. So here's our envelope. AI demo. We're doing the social media post, agent output. What do we got? Oh, that's really good. I like that. Oh, that's really good. I don't know if it's gonna fit on Instagram, but, we'll see. And now off it will run through Friday. Caption now. Saving it to the agent output folder. So now y- again we're chaining a number. You can see here, right? We're running through a number of different a number of different tasks. So it's now done that. It's written the Instagram. Here's the c- promo caption. "It's heating up in Newark, and somebody at the shop already has summer on the brain. We know nobody loves thinking about car care when the weather is this nice, so we figured we'd make it worth your while with a cool treat. Bring your vehicle in for an AC check now between Friday, May 29th. We'll send you home with a $20 gift card to one of our favorite shops in town, Dempsey's Ice Cream," which does not exist. A quick check. So there we go, and now we've got... now I've got this, and now it's going to go into my other tool, Blotato, which manages my social media for me and does all of my, it does all of my scheduling, right? So for me it's important obviously having a social presence is important. I don't have a lot of time so what I do every month is I build a calendar of, what I want posted to Facebook, posted to Instagram. I then have the AI go out and generate based on the calendar, and then it schedules the posts for me via this tool called Blotato. Oh, still doing this. Ooh, boy. Yeah, the afternoon brief is still running It's a big Jimmy Lea: day. Big news day. Jon Seitzer: It is. This is another... So this is also, this is a danger of AI and especially working in Claude, which tends to push a lot of updates. So this never used to take this long. When it came to my daily brief, it would just run, summarize, create the script, and Claude pushed an update a couple of days ago, and suddenly suddenly every AC run is a fight. But yep, so here's my here's my folder, right? So it's my daily brief. It's written to all of the things, starting with politics, economy markets, and basketball stuff 'cause I'm a big NBA guy. But yeah, now it's in here. Now it's in there in a folder. And what I would do is I would drag and drop it into a different tool that I use, and it would spit out a podcast wr- that for me to listen to on the drive home. But that's- Oh, I love it ... but that's the skill thing, right? The steps are always the same. Go to my email, go to a specific folder in my email, read every newsletter in the folder, summarize it following this script or f- this script architecture, spit out the, create a text file because the tool only takes text files, and it's the same thing every time. So that's the perfect type of thing f- that running a s- or doing a skill would help you with 'cause it's the same thing every time. Create a skill, and now you don't have to give it all those steps every single time. You can just say, "Create my brief," and off it goes. So there's- Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Let's see. Blotato's upload. I can't push the image. Oh, no. Okay, so here's where... So every now and then we're gonna run into an issue. In this case, Blotato would probably prefer I use their tool to generate a picture of a dog thinking about an ice cream cone. It doesn't want me to push my own image. We'll see if we'll see if it can figure out a way around it. Yep, it's gonna use a different one than I use, potentially, Cloudinary. But yeah, we'll continue to let that think, and what's our next demo? W- while we do this, Jimmy, are there any other questions that anyone has I can answer for them? No, Jimmy Lea: man, a- and I agr- I appreciate you saying that. If there are questions, type them into the comments box. Let's ask John. Sheila, you had some great questions there about skills and projects and what's the difference between the two and how can we utilize them in the shop. I, this is a s- fabulous way of using AI technology. And the, what so I just recently went to an AI- conference, an AI trade show, and it was huge. It was amazing. And in this they were saying, "Oh just let AI do it. Just let AI do it." No. Nay. Oh. There's a caution here. There has to be human interaction. There has to be human oversight. 'Cause if you just let AI do it, there are errors. It's gonna make mistakes. And like any good employee, you've gotta monitor and make sure that they're giving you and doing the right things for your business, for your outcomes, for whatever it is that you're trying to develop or do. Th- those prompts that you're giving it, it's g- that's where the magic happens. Jon Seitzer: It is, and let me build on that by saying, so when at my last job, I worked with a gentleman named Han Lee. He's absolutely brilliant. And he was a manager of our software engineering team, and this is a couple years ago as these AI agents are really starting to move into the mainstream. And they started with coding agents, so agents designed to help software engineers write code. I sat in with Han as he was giving a presentation to his software engineering team about how to use some of these agents. And this agent, which was, I believe, GitHub's agent, the whole point of it is to help your software engineers write code, 'cause they have to write a lot of code. But and he was using it to... When you're a software engineer, you write code, and then you have to test your code. So you, not only do you write your code, you write tests for how to test your code. They're called unit tests. So he was showing the the software engineers how to use the AI to write your unit tests, 'cause that's one of the most kind of mind-numbing parts of being a software engineer. You're not writing cool code. You're writing unit tests for the code you already wrote. And so he was showing them how to do that, and, y- just like this, right? It's chewing through all these unit tests and spitting them out. And one of the software engineers on the team went, "Wow, it's like having a, my own intern." And with immediately Jimmy shoots back, "Yes, and it's about as dumb as an intern." Meaning and that's like- You gotta check the work ... check the work. Yes. The AI it's eager like an intern too. It's eager and helpful, and it wants to do the best job it can. But oh boy, does sometimes it... i- in the last webinar we did, right? Yeah. It wanted to know what my Mustang's mileage was, and it just didn't have it, so it decided 224,000 miles seemed like a good number. Yeah. And that's what it told us. "Oh, this M- Mustang has 224,000 miles on it." So yeah just give it to AI? N- no. But give it to AI and double-check it and babysit it and give it the right instructions and stuff like that? Man, it's great. It's the envelope itself, right? The envelope- That's a really cool envelope and, it's a dumb thing to be excited about, but, hey, I have a unique envelope. And I didn't have to think about everything it would take you to do to build that envelope. Oh, it- Who wants to learn how to use Photoshop? Jimmy Lea: It would've taken me hours, John. I'm gonna be quite honest. Three to four hours for me to create that envelope. The layout, make sure it's lined up, make sure it works, make sure it has all the information in all the spots. I... Two to three hours. Probably four because I really don't know Photoshop at all. Yeah. And yeah, you were able to create that really quickly. Jon Seitzer: Let's do another one here. Okay, so- Jimmy Lea: It looks like this might be our last one that we're gonna be able to do today. Oh, Jon Seitzer: whoa, you're right. It's actually... So yeah, let's... 'Cause this one would take a bunch of time as well. So yeah, this is still gonna run. I have no idea what's, what it's going to do. But I guess the next piece I would let everybody know is when you're using something like this, when you're using connectors, hitting this will allow you to browse, and you can look for the various tools you use to see if they have connectors into Claude Code that would allow you to connect your t- your tool the same way I've connected Gmail, my calendar Asana, and some of my other services. Here you can see, right? I can pull a P&L out of QuickBooks. I can... The the, What was it? The presentation you saw at the start of this that I've done for two things now, that was created in Canva talking to Claude. Nice. Nice ... feel free to, to explore this. I would also recommend, A lot of my learning in Cowork has been off of a YouTube channel by a gentleman named Elliot Prince. It's not one-to-one 'cause he's a software consultant and he's not a shop owner, but for a good explainer of things like skills and projects and the difference between chat and code in Cowork and how to get everything set up that's really good. It's free. He's not trying to sell you anything. If you want extra stuff on YouTube, there's a lot there. Yeah. Just try to avoid the hype masters on YouTube and find people that are grounded, and you can get a lot of value out of this. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Yeah I totally agree. I've been on and watched a few of Elliot Prince's things, and he's pretty dang good. Sheila agrees as well. So here's Sheila's final question here we got coming in. "We use Claude, Gemini, and ChatGPT-" Inter-calculated? Depending on the task we're doing. We audit our invoices and calls weekly and determine alignment with our SOPs. Gemini works for us 'cause it is the browser and it can read what's happening in the background of Shopware, like the logs and when the tech received the RO, when he sent it back to the service advisors, et cetera. Is Claude Chrome extension able to do the same thing? Do you know? Jon Seitzer: I don't know. I use... So I use Claude Chrome to help me navigate all data. So when I'm in all data, I'll log into the vehicle, like I'll type in the VIN, and then I'll say something like, "What is the labor time for plugs and coils for this thing?" And Claude code will click around. I haven't used it in that way, so I don't know. I would say the best way to do it is to experiment. The difference between Claude and Gemini that I've found is that Claude tends to create a plan, ask for your approval of the plan, and then it... Claude tries to click around the site for you, versus Gemini, which tends to just read, summarize, and send information back to you. Jimmy Lea: Nice. So you appreciate the plan. "Yes, let's execute the plan," where Gemini just says, "Okay, here's your answer." And you're like yeah, close, but not exactly what I was looking for." Yeah. Jon Seitzer: So like when it... the all data example, right? Yeah. All data, to get to, to get from just having entered a VIN to plugs and coils, all, like the mouse has to move and things have to be clicked. I haven't seen Gemini move your mouse for you yet. I think it's coming, but Claude and Chrome will actually click to different sites to try and get you to the spot. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Very cool. Very cool. John, wonderful information. So valuable. Thank you so much. I'll be reaching out. We're gonna have a conversation. I'll be here. Bye. But I, I hope Jon Seitzer: that was valuable for everybody. I really do. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah, John, this is awesome. And you've got a gorgeous pet, fur baby there. Oh, she's- Is she in the office? Yes. Oh, nice. Oh, no, I don't have enough cord. No. Yeah, can't see her today. Maybe next time. John, thank you so much, man. That's just so valuable. AI is definitely not a fad. It's definitely not going away. It's something that we need to adopt and adapt to and learn how to use it. It's a powerful tool if it's used right. Yes. Just as a hammer is a powerful tool, a 10 millimeter socket is a powerful tool if it's used right. Definitely. So dude, that's, this is awesome. Thank you very much, John. Really appreciate it Jon Seitzer: Thank you. Really appreciate it. And again, all of you, if you need me LinkedIn or Facebook, I'm happy to help anybody that's run into any issues or wants to bounce an idea around. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Hey, and my name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. This is valuable information you're getting today. This is the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more that we're able to do. Please go check out our website at wearetheinstitute.com. Click into the Auto Academy. This is an online learning m- system, helps you to discover more, become better. There's tons of different videos that we have available on there. Our YouTube channel has a lot of information on there as well. Check it out. Check it out, our events page as well, all the next up-and-coming webinars we're doing, as well as all of the trade shows and conferences that we're gonna be attending. It's all there on our events page. Look forward to seeing you at the next trade show. Look forward to seeing you at the next webinar. And together we're gonna lock arms so nobody gets left behind. Thank you very much, everybody. Talk to you soon.

205 - The Diagnostic Fee Debate: Ask Me Anything with Cecil Bullard and Lucas Underwood

205 - The Diagnostic Fee Debate: Ask Me Anything with Cecil Bullard and Lucas Underwood May 13, 2026 - 00:56:50 Show Summary: Lucas Underwood and Cecil Bullard explain why diagnostic testing should never be treated as free work. They discuss how weak pay systems and poor communication have lowered the value of technicians across the industry. The conversation compares automotive testing to the medical field and explains why customers should expect to pay for professional diagnostics. They also cover technician growth customer education leadership and the need for stronger professionalism in repair shops. The episode ends with a call for the industry to raise standards and focus on creating long term value.   Host(s): Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of [https://lnautorepair.com/]L&N Performance Auto Repair [https://lnautorepair.com/]and Changing the Industry Podcast [https://changingtheindustrypodcast.com/] Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/]   Show Highlights: [01:00:25] – Customers understand testing better than diagnostics. [01:03:09] – Proper testing requires skill experience and expensive equipment. [01:04:04] – Shops lose profit when diagnostic time is given away. [01:06:47] – Flat rate pay discourages advanced diagnostic skill development. [01:12:10] – Lucas explains his Level One testing process. [01:14:45] – Cecil compares automotive testing to medical diagnostics. [01:19:22] – Skipping testing leads to poor repairs and wasted money. [01:31:06] – Lucas discusses leadership responsibility and coaching influence. [01:39:40] – Accurate testing saves money and prevents unnecessary repairs. [01:50:16] – The industry must value professionalism and technician expertise.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.   👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/cUCa2tz_G1c [https://youtu.be/cUCa2tz_G1c]   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  * Want to learn more? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/] * Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/business-assessment%7C] * See The Institute's events list: Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/upcoming-events] * Want access to our online classes? Click Here [https://www.gearforshops.com/pages/course-library] ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com [marketing@wearetheinstitute.com].   Episode Transcript:   [01:00:00:01 - 01:00:11:22] Lucas Underwood  Good afternoon, everybody. My name's Lucas Underwood from Changing the Industry podcast. I'm also a shop owner. And this afternoon, I'm here with the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Cecil Bullard. Cecil, how you doing, buddy? [01:00:11:22 - 01:00:14:10] Cecil Bullard  Howdy, howdy. I'm great, Lucas. As always. [01:00:14:10 - 01:00:24:14] Lucas Underwood  Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So we've got some deep dive topics for the day. I'm excited about it because this is a hot button series of topics. So let's dig right into it. [01:00:25:15 - 01:00:53:00] Lucas Underwood  Now, now, Cecil, we're talking diagnostics. We're talking testing. We're talking charging for it. But you know something? Very, very early on when I first started kind of working on improving my business, I went to ASTA for the first time and I got into some training classes. It was drilled into my head from the word go. You don't sell diagnostics. You sell testing and testing results in a diagnosis. How do you feel about that, Cecil? [01:00:56:10 - 01:00:56:24] Cecil Bullard  Who cares? [01:00:58:05 - 01:01:03:19] Cecil Bullard  I don't care. Here's the thing. I mean, I sold diagnostics for, I don't know, 25 years. [01:01:03:19 - 01:01:04:04] Lucas Underwood  Yeah. [01:01:04:04 - 01:01:52:00] Cecil Bullard  We're going to diagnose your car. Now, testing actually, we keep having these people that come into our industry and they come up with these great new words. And so let's not call it green anymore. Let's call it, I don't know, pumpkin pie or whatever. Who knows? Who cares? Right. And so if you're selling pumpkin posse. Yeah. If you're, if you're selling, if you're, if you're good at selling diagnostics, who cares? Right. This is the one instance where testing probably makes more sense only because the consumer probably understands testing a lot better than they understand diagnostics. Okay. And, and so, you know, I'm, I'm, if I'm going to go to the doctor, they're going to run a series of tests. [01:01:53:03 - 01:02:38:10] Cecil Bullard  If those series of tests don't give them the information they need, then they're going to run another series of tests or more tests. And, and so I think that at least because of the medical industry and the, and the work they've done, the testing probably makes more sense at this particular point. And if we made that shift in the industry, would it make it easier for your customers, your clients to understand what you're, what you're doing and why there's a cost to it? And, and the answer is probably yes. So, you know, as far as calling, you know, technicians, mechanics or mechanics technicians or specialists or whatever, I don't care what you call me, you know, just call, make sure you call me. As [01:02:38:10 - 01:02:40:16] Lucas Underwood  long as you pay the bill when you're done, I don't care. [01:02:40:16 - 01:02:41:09] Cecil Bullard  Yeah. [01:02:41:09 - 01:02:42:09] Lucas Underwood  Yeah. [01:02:43:17 - 01:02:44:16] Lucas Underwood  Go ahead. Go ahead. [01:02:44:16 - 01:03:09:03] Cecil Bullard  I just, we keep coming up with new words, thinking we're going to change the game when we're not really changing the game. The problem is that we don't value ourselves as an industry or our time as technicians or as mechanics and we never have, and we still don't value that time. And that creates a lot of the unrest in our industry and a lot of the financial issues in our industry. [01:03:09:03 - 01:03:45:15] Lucas Underwood  I agree a thousand percent Cecil. I completely agree with you. But here, here's where I'm at on the testing thing. Okay. And a couple of thoughts behind this process. When, when I bring a client into my shop, I start with a level one testing routine. Now look, if you've never tested a car, if you've never done the diagnostic process yourself, it is very easy to say, well, hey, I'm just going to wrap that into the price. It's not that big of a deal. No, it's a talent. There is skill associated. There is knowledge associated. There's tooling associated with it. If you've never been the one to do it, you just don't understand how complex the process can be. Okay. [01:03:45:15 - 01:03:52:14] Cecil Bullard  I'm talking to a shop yesterday. They have $189 posted labor rate. [01:03:52:14 - 01:03:53:07] Lucas Underwood  Yeah. [01:03:53:07 - 01:03:55:29] Cecil Bullard  Okay. They have an effective labor rate of 123. [01:03:57:26 - 01:04:00:08] Cecil Bullard  Now they're wonder why there's no money in the bank. [01:04:00:08 - 01:04:01:00] Lucas Underwood  Yeah. [01:04:01:00 - 01:04:02:13] Cecil Bullard  And you know, we're talking about. [01:04:02:13 - 01:04:04:06] Lucas Underwood  Everybody they're higher than everybody in town. [01:04:04:06 - 01:05:44:14] Cecil Bullard  How many comebacks do you have? Oh, we don't have any, we have hardly any comebacks at all. Okay. And by the way, that's the answer. 99.9% of the time, we don't have any comebacks. Okay. Wonderful. Wonderful. It's not that how many, how many DVI's do you give away without charging that to your customer? Yeah, we do DVI's for free for our clients. Okay. All right. How much, how many times does your master technician, your A-Tech have an hour to quote unquote run tests or diagnose a car and take two days? Oh man, that happens a lot. Okay. Now we've, we've, we've circled in on one of the main reasons that the effective labor rate. And by the way, it's like $27,000 a month for this shop because their effective labor is so far off of their posted rate. And they, their A-Tech is again and again and again. If it's so easy to do this quote unquote diagnosis, anybody can do it in half an hour, anybody can do it in an hour. I cannot, you know, you got these ego tacks out there and I'm going to get blasted, but they're out there and they're like, Oh, well anybody should be able to do that in an hour. You know, we should be able to diagnose this code in an hour that code. And yet hundreds, if not thousands of guys are spending three, four, five, seven, 10 hours on a car, trying to figure out what's really going on. And, and how does that not come together? My ego is being in the way of being profitable and making money. Right? Yeah. Then I'm going to come up to the shop owner who's cheating me. [01:05:44:14 - 01:06:47:25] Lucas Underwood  Well, so a couple of things here, right? First of all, let's just, let's put the elephant in the middle of the room and beat it. Okay. Because the reality of the situation is this, the pay systems and the way that we have set up the testing routines have not rewarded technicians. Okay. Now I get that there are thousands of ways to obtain reward and to find meaning and purpose in life, right? We go back to Michael Smith's leadership in the last. It's not all about money. It shouldn't be right. Right. But I'm going to tell you right now, if you don't pay somebody for it, they're not going to develop the skill. Right? I mean, let's just be real about it. You go and you work in the dealership and you get paid 0.25. You get paid 0.5 to go and do said testing that you know is going to take you an hour and a half or two hours to do it. Is it fair? One, no, it's not. B, there's no system. They're, they see them giving it away. Okay. When, when someone sees you giving their work away, it says to them, I don't value this. Well, we've, I don't see value in it. [01:06:47:25 - 01:07:11:22] Cecil Bullard  Yeah. That's, that's one of the other issues we've devalued ourselves over and over and over again. And we continue to do that. You've got an owner that used to be a tech and for him or her, it, oh, it was easy for me. You know, every car that came in, I could figure it out in an hour. And, and then, but they're not the one figuring it out. Yeah. I have a, I have some companies that are, um, uh, [01:07:12:29 - 01:09:26:29] Cecil Bullard  like restoration. So that what they're doing, there isn't quote unquote a book time for right there. They're sometimes making components and, and taking something off of a vehicle was never intended for this vehicle and, and re retooling it and et cetera. And we're timing materials. So when your timing materials, um, what's better to have the worst tech doing the job or to have the best tech doing the job. And if you do do that, you're going to have to do it. And if you do have the best tech doing the job, is that, is that hurting the shop, but helping the customer? Is that hurting the tech, but helping the client? Right. So yeah, our, our, um, the way we pay and obviously, you know, I'm for a pretty decent base pay. Right. So you're going to be here. You got to know that you're going to have, you know, food at home and a shelter over your head. And once in a while it would be nice if I could take my wife out to dinner or whatever. Right. And you got to know that. And then I think you need to have performance enhancement stuff. And if you are excelling in certain areas in certain ways that I can earn more money, I can make a bigger paycheck. And if you can blend those two, which is what we do, then I think you have the best of both worlds. But, but it doesn't, it will never matter if we don't, if we continue to devalue what we do. We do this techs all the time because, you know, we'll go, "Oh, I know exactly what that is." And then you have to have a lot of money. And I think that's, that's what I think that is. But wait a minute, why do you know exactly what that is? Well, you're some experience. So I have, I don't know, 252 scars on my hands. The reason I know this is because when I'm sitting in church and I'm bored, I'm OCD. So I'm counting the scars. And I've done it a hundred times, right? A thousand times. And where did those 252 scars come from? Working on cars. They came from reaching up under a dash and, and getting cut. And they came from, you know, a bunch of cars. And I think that's, that's, that's the reason why I'm here. sized them as they mostly were. Is because, uh, [01:09:27:29 - 01:09:49:02] Cecil Bullard  I work overtime and I had a lot of hard work around them. And then you do the whole thing, pushed into that and I were like, Oh my God, this is terrifying. and, uh, you know, and there at the first time, you're someone else's medical Vancouver department. weren't born with it, right? You, you,u paid for it in blood, sweat and tears. You paid for it in extra hours that you didn't get paid for, you paid for it in real blood. Right? [01:09:50:15 - 01:10:17:11] Cecil Bullard  And yet we constantly, we disregard that as technicians. I would say it's epidemic in our industry. And then you have your ATEX who don't understand why the C-TECH can't do it as fast or as good as they can. Right? Well, I don't understand. This is so easy. Well, go back to when you were learning. It wasn't easy when you were learning it. Right? And until we... Absolutely. [01:10:18:16 - 01:10:30:04] Cecil Bullard  Until we find a way to kind of value ourselves and our time, that's what we have. Could you imagine a lawyer, like lawyer giving you 30 minutes without charging you? [01:10:30:04 - 01:10:33:09] Lucas Underwood  Let me just tell you something. They don't ever. [01:10:33:09 - 01:10:35:01] Cecil Bullard  No, they don't. [01:10:35:01 - 01:11:14:29] Lucas Underwood  The one I've been working with here recently is fire. I mean, so good. We've got two right now that I work with on pretty much a daily basis. And there's a lot of things that they will just talk to us and say, "All right." And then they roll that into what they're doing. And I understand that, right? Because it's too much to every telephone conversation. Every second. Yeah. But I'm going to tell you right now, I've got a bad one and two good ones. And the two good ones, buddy, I don't even care. I don't flinch when that bill comes in because it's like, a great example is one of them, they're in another state and he calls me the other day and he said, "These people that we're going to battle with." [01:11:16:01 - 01:11:32:03] Lucas Underwood  Two years ago, they were in a civil case and they accidentally released a document and I found that document and it is your everything you need to get what you want from them. And it's right there. Yeah. And he went through thousands of documents. [01:11:32:03 - 01:11:36:16] Cecil Bullard  A few hundred thousand dollars. I'm like, "Yeah, you're worth your money, man. [01:11:36:16 - 01:11:52:07] Lucas Underwood  Whatever you need to do. Send me the bill." Yeah. And so here's the big thing for me and I've dealt with a lot of shop owners and I talked to a lot of techs, a lot of shop owners on a daily basis. I talked to probably six or seven already today. [01:11:53:07 - 01:12:09:14] Lucas Underwood  First of all, the main issue that I see is the people who have never done it don't value it because they don't understand it. And so there's a lot of these shop owners who went and they just bought a shop and they just say, "Well, a car goes to tech, tech tells me what to do, car fixed." [01:12:10:14 - 01:12:50:23] Lucas Underwood  And all they see is the time associated with it. They don't understand the talent. They don't understand the skill. They don't understand the logistics of what has to happen to properly repair that automobile or to find out what's wrong with it. And so what I started doing in my shop season, and you tell me if this is right or wrong, I start with a level one testing routine. It has one hour on it and they get the basic data. It's a code read, it's fuel trends, it's data acquisition, it's confirm the client's concern, determine where it's at on the car, get me some base data. And if you can figure out in that hour, which about 90% of all cases they're able to, then great. It's an hour. We roll on with it. Typically they're out in half an hour to 45 minutes. [01:12:50:23 - 01:12:59:07] Cecil Bullard  And maybe this is just coming in my head at the moment. Maybe what we're really doing in that first hour is creating a testing plan. [01:12:59:07 - 01:13:00:19] Lucas Underwood  Well, that's what I was getting ready to say. [01:13:00:19 - 01:13:01:22] Cecil Bullard  Or a diagnostic plan. [01:13:01:22 - 01:13:05:20] Lucas Underwood  That's exactly what happens if it is something advanced. [01:13:06:21 - 01:13:30:12] Lucas Underwood  And so step two, that technician comes to me and they say, Lucas, here's the data I have collected. It tells me that I am looking at an issue that is in X circuit because it says circuit high and I know it's not the component and I know it's not the computer because I've done these two tests. I have to do X to find this. [01:13:30:12 - 01:13:37:01] Cecil Bullard  I have to spend this amount of time or I have to run these three tests in order to determine what's really going on. [01:13:37:01 - 01:14:45:03] Lucas Underwood  You came back to me with data and you said, here's the test I need to do. Okay. Now, if I go to the doctor, I just want to point this out. If I go to the doctor and I've fallen, I've hit my arm and it's all bruised up and it's all to pieces and I go to that doctor, first of all, I'm going to pay for the visit fee. Okay. So I go into the doctor and they're going to say, Hey, it's a hundred and whatever dollars. The doctor comes in, takes a look and says, Hey, Lucas, I believe you've broken your arm. Now for me to determine the best course of action to correct your concern, I have to do additional testing. That's going to be an X-ray, that's going to be an MRI, that's going to be whatever it is. Now at that point, we'll know what course of action we need to take. Do we have to do surgery? Can we just set it? What do we do next? Right? First of all, they're not giving me an estimate for what's wrong. They're giving me probabilities. They're giving me some idea of where we're headed. But if I went into that doctor's office and they said, man, it looks like your arm hurts. I'm going to have to do some testing. It's going to be about a thousand bucks. Okay. What test are you going to do? Well, I don't know yet. I'm going to figure that out when I get there. I'll let you know. [01:14:45:03 - 01:15:10:13] Cecil Bullard  Right. But that's not, that's not kind of how it works. I mean, I was at the doctor yesterday, normal visit. I'm diabetic. So I go twice a year and he says, how are you doing? I paid my $95 coded up, whatever. So he's getting paid, I don't know, $250 for between me and the insurance company. Maybe it's 150 for 10 minutes of his time at most. [01:15:12:09 - 01:16:16:01] Cecil Bullard  And he says, oh, well, you're looking great, but I want to send you to this guy because you've got this problem and they need to, we need to figure out what's going on so we can have a course of action. Right. So we know what we're going to do or if we're not going to do anything. And so I paid for him. Now I'm going to go see a quote unquote specialist that will, I'll pay for that visit and then I'll pay for the testing on top of that. And then I'll have a plan to move forward. That's that's you know, we could discuss why are our medical systems out of hand and other things. The process that they do to determine the plan to solve the problem is a good process. They've been doing it for years and years and years. It works. It gets the right answer most of the time, 97% of the time or whatever. Right. And and and we move forward. And yet in our industry, we're like, well, I can't charge anybody for that. [01:16:16:01 - 01:16:23:25] Lucas Underwood  Well, I just need to point out to you Cecil. Yeah. That's when you know you over the hill when they start saying, well, we're not going to do anything about this. [01:16:23:25 - 01:16:24:16] Cecil Bullard  Yeah. [01:16:25:27 - 01:16:26:03] Lucas Underwood  Yeah. [01:16:27:21 - 01:16:30:28] Cecil Bullard  Until you can't walk anymore, then we'll think if we need to do something, [01:16:30:28 - 01:16:32:18] Lucas Underwood  we'll get you a wheelchair then see. [01:16:32:18 - 01:16:39:16] Cecil Bullard  Yeah. Yeah. That'll be great. You can get one of those little things. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. [01:16:39:16 - 01:16:49:19] Lucas Underwood  My dear friend Rick white, when he hurt his back had a scooter that they read him around on at Apex and I've never let that go. I just rubbed it in all the time. [01:16:49:19 - 01:17:00:26] Cecil Bullard  You know, I had a, I had a foot surgery three years ago before Apex and I was, I was on a scooter for Apex and yeah, not, not fun. I'm really not fun. [01:17:00:26 - 01:17:18:13] Lucas Underwood  I bet not. So look, when we talk about this testing thing, I just want to point something out about this because I think it's so important when we look at that medical field, they see value in the test that they're going to do because they know what test needs to be done. [01:17:19:18 - 01:17:52:23] Lucas Underwood  They're in charge of charging you for that test, right? They decide what test has to be done. They put it on there. It gets billed to you and then the thing happens, right? Yeah. I think what happens in our industry is there are so many people who do not understand the service advisor and the owner or the service manager do not understand the skill, the talent, the tools, the ability, the time it takes to properly diagnose an automobile. Well, and so it's, it's different for them to stand up there and say, this is $400, but that's why I do the testing routine. [01:17:52:23 - 01:19:21:25] Cecil Bullard  That's part of the problem with our industry. So if we look at, at a doctor, a doctor cannot afford to just go set your arm, right? Yeah. The bone is sticking out. You know, I know I've, I've got the scars to prove it, blah, blah, blah. Bone is sticking out. The doctor says we need to do some testing to find out what's going on because we need a course of action. All right. Now, if they had just set my arm at the time because the bone was sticking out, then I wouldn't have use of my wrist. Okay. Because it was, the bone had shifted when it broke. All right. Now, and they needed to find that out. And, and in the medical field, they cannot afford to set that bone and then later have me sue them or come after them because I know I now, I now no longer have use of my wrist in the automotive field. We don't seem to have a problem with, well, that guy wasn't right. Okay. And we, we even, we even, we propagate this idea that there's too many guys out there that aren't right. Well, yeah, because we're not giving them the tools or the necessity to run the testing to be right or the time when you, when you have a free, Oh, by the way, I have an hour. Man, you've spent three hours on that car. [01:19:22:25 - 01:21:03:07] Cecil Bullard  How come, how come? What is it? You know, well, let me pull something out of my behind so that I'll get you off my back. And then, well, wait a minute. That guy was wrong. Now the shop is paying for it or the customer is paying for it or whatever, because we didn't do the testing in the front because we didn't value it because we didn't understand the liability that we have on the other side of that. It's a, it's a problem that is bigger than we think. And it's been going on for a very, very long time. Don't get me wrong. There's some guys out there working on cars that shouldn't be working on cars, but there's a lot of guys, when you put someone in a position for their family to starve or them to cheat, what do you think they're going to do? Let their family starve. Yeah, they have to. Right. And so when you're not charging for your text time and, and I don't know if, if Mike is here or not, but if he is Mike, don't tell me you're not charging for diagnostics. If you raised your labor rate, you are charging for your diagnostics. You're just charging for it in a different way. So now we got that out of the way. All right. But if you're not, if you're not charging for your diagnostic and, and you're asking your tech to do that for free, or you're paying for that yourself somewhere, there's a cost. There's either cost to the customer in poor diagnostics or incorrect answers. There's a cost to the, to the, the owner of the company, the company. And if there's a cost to the company, there's a cost to the employees of the company. And that's one of these things why we have techs constantly complaining about how poorly they're treated. You know, is it fair? [01:21:04:12 - 01:21:29:24] Cecil Bullard  You call me, Hey Cecil, I've got this Toyota Camry that, you know, 2014 and it's got this weird blah, blah, blah. What's it going to cost? Right? Oh, well, you know, we're going to need to. We need to do some testing. And so we start at $300 and that'll be applied toward the testing. And if we can solve the problem with that, we'll certainly solve the problem. You come in, it's not even a damn Toyota. [01:21:30:24 - 01:21:46:02] Cecil Bullard  Right. Yeah. And you show up with a, I don't know, you show up with a Nissan and you don't even know what you're driving and you want me to tell you on the phone what that price is going to be to fix something that I have no idea what it is or, or anything. [01:21:46:02 - 01:21:55:27] Lucas Underwood  But our industry set that expectation, right? Our industry has created that expectation in consumers and, and, and we, you know, Dutch is always bust about us being a commodity. [01:21:55:27 - 01:22:24:05] Cecil Bullard  Yeah. We keep propagating that. And you know, some of it is because we have egos and our egos won't let us get out of the way of ourselves. And, and, and some of it is because we don't, we don't get it, right? We really don't understand the, the financial aspects of the business or the, the, uh, uh, liability we have or any of the, you know, a few other things. And, and, and some of it's just probably plain ignorance. [01:22:24:05 - 01:22:43:28] Lucas Underwood  Okay. Spicy, spicy perspective coming in here. I think some of it is because we're too stupid to have our own thoughts. So we go and we listen to some big wig coach who is in a metropolitan area who has thousands and thousands of clients that they can pull from. And, and we don't realize that what we're doing is basically market manipulation. [01:22:45:00 - 01:23:01:28] Lucas Underwood  And, and we don't care that it devalues our industry as a whole. We don't care that it damages our industry because all we care about is making enough money to sell the shop or do whatever we need to do. We don't care who it upsets. We don't care who it hurts because all we care about is our shop. All we care about is the money. [01:23:01:28 - 01:26:37:16] Cecil Bullard  I think, um, when you look at, at, at human beings in general, um, certainly there is the trap of I'm only doing what's best for me. Yeah. Okay. And, uh, right now, you know, someone hangs this sweet carrot of if you get 10 locations, you're going to get 16 X and, uh, and they stay. And by the way, you're going to get a really nice VC company that's going to buy your company for top dollar, and then they're going to take care of all your customers and employees, just like you would. Uh, you know what? I will, I was born at night, but not last night. Okay. So, so yeah, we're. And by the way, should we be doing what's best for us? Right. Yeah. So on the, on the chart of, of, um, uh, what's important, uh, my chart is, is Cecil's relationship with Cecil. Okay. Then it's Cecil's relationship with God. Then it's Cecil's relationship with his family. And then it's Cecil's relationship with his business. And then it's Cecil's relationship with everybody else. Right. And the, and the reason why that has become that over the years, because it wasn't always that was because if I'm not happy with me, I won't be happy with anything else or anybody else. I have to like me. I have to understand me. I have to know that with all the, all the warts and all the other stuff, you know, the temper, the whatever, that I'm a good guy and I'm trying to be a good guy and I'm trying to, you know, et cetera. And so I like me and, and then I need to have a relationship with God, whatever that is, so whatever your. You know, you may say there's no God, Cecil. There's a, there's a being or some science or something. Okay. Whatever that is, you have to have a relationship with it. You have to understand how you fit in the world. Right. And then I got to make my wife, uh, mostly happy. Can't make her all happy. Can't make my kids happy, but I got to do my best for my family. And then it's my business because there's an awful lot of responsibility. So with that nature that we have, are we going to look out for ourselves sometimes more than we probably should? Yeah. You know, I think it's, it's inherent. What, what gets me in our industry is that I almost dread going online anymore because 90% of what I'm hearing is negative. Yeah. And, and I, in this industry, this industry has been good to me. All right. Uh, I was, uh, 19 dropped out of college, came home, started as a tech for my dad. I was making 50,000 the first year I was working as a tech and I got news for you. I didn't know squat. Right. And, and then I became a service advisor and a manager and, and eventually I owned shops and sold those. And then I started a coaching company and now we're, you know, we're expanding and doing other things. And, and the industry has got me here. And got me through, I don't 45 year, 45 tough years with four kids. All right. And, and where else can that happen? You know, someone that drops out of college that really knows very little high, high intelligence, high ego, right? But other than that, not much going for me. Uh, and, and I end up here, this is a great industry. There's more opportunity in our industry right now than there's ever been. And you know what, if your owner is treating you like crap, [01:26:38:18 - 01:26:40:11] Cecil Bullard  you know, how many shops need a tech, [01:26:41:11 - 01:26:52:14] Cecil Bullard  right? And so don't sit in the, excuse me, do not sit in the pile of shit and then complain how stinky it is. Right. Get out, [01:26:53:14 - 01:27:43:19] Cecil Bullard  shower yourself off, go get another job somewhere. Because I know right now I could tell 50 shops, if they could find an ATEC, they'd be paying that ATEC as much, almost as much money as they wanted. And probably a lot more than the average in the industry and, and really giving them a great place to work with all the support they need, all the tools, all the equipment, all the education, all the training, et cetera. And then I understand what you were saying about like the coach. Sometimes we have these companies that are telling you what you want to hear. Yeah. Not what you need to hear. Okay. Absolutely. And, and, and I think, you know, it's probably a good thing that I'm not God, frankly, cause I don't have the patience or the understanding and I might do some, [01:27:44:24 - 01:28:15:15] Cecil Bullard  I might do some really crazy bad things because there are people in our industry that, you know, if I had the, if it was up to me, they wouldn't be in our industry, but that competition, that, that knowing that that's out there drives me harder every day, right? Yeah. It makes me want the Institute to do better, to do more, to, to have more impact, to, to help more people be successful. Right. [01:28:15:15 - 01:28:34:29] Lucas Underwood  Here's the thing is that those people, okay, let's think about this for a minute. They know, right? Those people are intelligent enough to know what they're doing. They're intelligent enough to know what the outcome is. Um, Mike Allen says he wants a list of people that sees with Smike. Mike's at the very top of it. [01:28:34:29 - 01:28:37:05] Cecil Bullard  No, he's not. He's like fifth on the list. [01:28:38:17 - 01:28:38:23] Lucas Underwood  Okay. [01:28:39:28 - 01:28:43:19] Lucas Underwood  Um, uh, now I need to, oh man, this is going down a dark tunnel here. [01:28:45:20 - 01:28:56:15] Lucas Underwood  But I, you know, look, I'm just going to say like, I think that, that those people know, and they know that the impact they're making on the industry. We pick on Mike. Mike really does. [01:28:56:15 - 01:29:01:00] Cecil Bullard  Mike's a easy target. Thanks. And thank you for being that target, Mike. [01:29:01:00 - 01:29:09:08] Lucas Underwood  Yeah, absolutely. And he's, he is working. I see his efforts behind the scenes all day long of like teaching people and trying to lift them up and, [01:29:09:08 - 01:29:27:23] Cecil Bullard  and, but you, you have a big responsibility when you have the ear of the industry. Okay. And if you're going to be an industry influencer, there's a responsibility, not just to provoke, but to educate and to help. [01:29:28:28 - 01:29:39:26] Cecil Bullard  Okay. And if you're, if you're provoking for the sake of, um, uh, hits and likes and crap like that, that's problematic. [01:29:39:26 - 01:29:42:05] Lucas Underwood  That is not why Mike's doing that. [01:29:42:05 - 01:29:44:15] Cecil Bullard  No, I know what Mike's up to. [01:29:44:15 - 01:30:00:18] Lucas Underwood  I, yeah, what Mike is up to is he's just trying to meet his brother's level of this success. I mean, his brother was this super successful pilot and he did all these amazing things and Mike has always felt a little bit less than because of that. And so Mike is working really hard to get to the next level. [01:30:00:18 - 01:30:39:16] Cecil Bullard  Do you know where we, do you know what we have to compare ourselves to? If you do this, right? You compare yourself to yourself. That's it. Amen. I, if I, I will never be the man my dad was. Okay. Um, he was stronger than I am physically, uh, till the day he died. He, I will never be him. Okay. And there's good and bad about that. And there's a lot of people out there that I admire. Okay. But I'm not going to be them. I hold myself to my own standard, right? It's my standard for me. I don't, yeah. [01:30:39:16 - 01:31:06:00] Lucas Underwood  I've got to ask this question. Okay. This has nothing to do with diagnostic testing and it's something that I think I have personally struggled with a little bit, um, and something that I think about often when, when we give advice, right, it's rooted in our belief system. It's rooted in, in who we are, but I take giving advice to other people very seriously, and I take lifting them up and getting them to a better place very seriously, [01:31:07:03 - 01:32:07:05] Lucas Underwood  when we look at, at people giving some of this advice and, and I, I think they genuinely believe that they're doing what's right. I think they genuinely believe they're, they're doing the right thing for other people. See, so how do you judge that advice? How do you know that you're leading them in a right direction? Because like these, what I keep seeing is I see these people, they're business owners and they're, they're lost, right? They don't know where to go. They don't know what to do. They don't know. And, and many of them pull from many different facets and they get information from lots of different people. But sometimes someone will attach to a very specific person. And what that person says is the grace and they believe everything they say. My fear is that my belief system may move their morals or their values in a different direction that doesn't align with who they are. And I take that very seriously. But I don't, how do you avoid that as a, as a coach? How do you make sure that you're not infringing on their belief system? [01:32:07:05 - 01:33:31:20] Cecil Bullard  Do you, do you remember what I, I, I started out with in, and that is, um, Cecil has to like Cecil and then God and family and et cetera. So, um, you know, I judge the success of what we do with clients by their success, right? And I always said, you know, we, we can influence, um, we can't, I can't make your decisions for you. I can ask you what I can, I can tell you what I would do. Um, I can tell you also as a coach 20 years ago, I was a lot harsher and a lot more imagine that right. Uh, and a lot more, um, you got to do this and you got to do that. There were, there were a lot more definitive statements. All shops should, all people should blah, blah, blah. Uh, those, a lot of those things have disappeared from my, from my vernacular, I look at the, at what the Institute for all the clients that we have served and all the clients we serve and the success that we have. And I judge my success by that success. I also judge my success by being able to look at myself in the mirror in the, in the morning and, and, and like what I see, even though it's, it's a little flabbier, a little older and a little whiter. [01:33:31:20 - 01:33:33:05] Lucas Underwood  Well, saggy, the old nine yards. [01:33:33:05 - 01:33:34:09] Cecil Bullard  Yeah. All that. [01:33:34:09 - 01:34:34:01] Lucas Underwood  There's a, there's a great question that just came up and I'm going to take a stab at this, he's going to pop it up on the screen for us because I'm wondering about the best ways to present a higher cost for Diag to customers. I always have a hard time, especially if we end up having to send it elsewhere because we don't have a special tool or software. We go as far as we can. Then we have to stop sometimes medical field. It's not a big deal to pay a bill to one doctor after they tell you they need to send you to a specialist, but in our industry, it feels like we've just failed. Now, listen, I'm going to tell you that for me, I'm judging that situation very early on. Okay. I'm not taking on things that are out of my wheelhouse and I have learned my lesson. And listen, Cecil, this is something you've seen in my shop. If the advisor is not astute, automatically, if they don't have that technical knowledge, if the manager doesn't have that technical knowledge, it can be very difficult to weed those out. But you have to have a technical team that says, "Hey, I believe this is something that we shouldn't get into. We need to get this out." There's things that require some treatment. [01:34:34:01 - 01:35:55:10] Cecil Bullard  But I don't, I would, in a way, I disagree with you because we need to define what our jobs are in the business, right? If I'm the owner and the manager of my company, what's my job? To provide my people with the things they need to be successful, goals, org charts, job descriptions, tools, education, et cetera. Am I the one making the decision as the owner that we're going to take that job or we're not going to take that job? No, I'm not qualified. I haven't worked on cars in 16 years. Okay. There's no grease under my fingernails. There's, you know, the scars I have are well healed and there's no fresh stuff going on. Is it the service advisor's job to make that decision? No, no, no, it's probably not. It's the tech's job. This is beyond our capabilities. And by the way, can the tech do that if we haven't charged some time up front to determine that? And maybe we need to develop a list of specialists in our area that we can say, "We need to send you to a specialist on this type of a car." And not feel bad about doing that because that's what's best for the company. That's what's best for the client and the client's vehicle. It's not to bring it in and try to mess it around and, you know. For sure. [01:35:55:10 - 01:36:32:07] Lucas Underwood  But, but I mean, here's, here's the thing. A 1993 Mercedes SL shows up. It's KJET. It's one of the worst injection systems ever built. Somebody's going to yell at me for saying that. It's terrible. It's awful. You look at that car and you say, "Hey, I don't work on cars that are older than 20 years old." "Hey, I don't work on Mercedes that's this type of fuel system." I don't, right? Like there's, if we know, right? If I know there's no way I'm going to work on that car, I know better. I have learned my lesson. I have paid the price for it. I'm not going to take that car. [01:36:32:07 - 01:36:41:12] Cecil Bullard  As techs in our industry, we judge ourselves by being the guy that can fix everything and have all the answers. [01:36:41:12 - 01:36:45:10] Lucas Underwood  I'm over that Cecil. I am so over that. [01:36:45:10 - 01:36:45:25] Cecil Bullard  Me too. [01:36:46:25 - 01:37:06:01] Cecil Bullard  Someday, hopefully we mature enough to understand that that's, you know, that there are things in our life that we're never going to do, right? I'm never going to fix every car. I'm not going to fix every client. They won't, you know, I, I've got, believe it or not, there are people that won't listen to me, right? [01:37:07:24 - 01:37:49:25] Cecil Bullard  Sometimes I'm like, "God, you've hired us to help you. We're telling you what to do." And yet you won't go do it, right? Right. And again, I can only have influence. So I think, yeah, I think we need to decide kind of upfront what our roles are and what we're willing to do and what we're not willing to do. And the better we make that, the clearer we are, then the better we can focus our business on being more successful as opposed to, you know, all the crap. And I got to tell you, it's, it's really hard when you have no cars in your shop to say no to somebody that's bringing in a Mercedes with a K-Jet system or whatever. Right? [01:37:49:25 - 01:37:56:05] Lucas Underwood  No, it's not. So I would rather be broke. I would rather not pay my bills this month. Okay. I'm just telling you. [01:37:56:05 - 01:38:23:07] Cecil Bullard  It's hard for most people to, when they think, again, if you think, if you judge yourself on your, your prowess of fixing cars, and now all of a sudden you're making a shift into ownership or something, and you have to judge yourself now on the success of the people that work for you, not, and your clients, not on your own ability to, to fix cars. And that's not an easy shift to make. [01:38:23:07 - 01:38:37:07] Lucas Underwood  I agree. And that, that was one of the hardest things for me to do because the things that I saw as easy, the things that I saw as, Hey, just go do this. I recognize other people don't have the same abilities that I had. Now, I don't have the ability anymore. [01:38:38:15 - 01:39:34:28] Lucas Underwood  But they were easy for me. And so I would judge the situation based on my knowledge, right? The curse of knowledge. I would talk to clients on the front counter based on what I had experienced and got myself into trouble many times. Now I'm going to tell you, be prepared. Here's where I am with this. What I do is I bring them in for a level one testing routine. And I just explained in 90% of all cases, I'm able to determine the cause or causes of your concern. Other 10% of cases, I may have to refer you to a specialist or do additional testing. I will never, ever, ever change my estimate from this price. You will stay in control of the entire process at all times. But I may come back to you. And if you are one of those 10% cases and let you know, we have to do additional testing or you need to go to a specialist or you comfortable with that. And so I, you know, I made a video last night talking about this until you've been to a shop that throws parts at your car and can't actually fix it. And you just spent $3,500 trying to change all these parts and you still have the same exact problem you went in with. [01:39:35:28 - 01:39:40:05] Lucas Underwood  You listen, they have no issue paying for proper testing at that point in time. [01:39:40:05 - 01:40:33:04] Cecil Bullard  And those are my clients. The least expensive way to fix your car is to have someone that knows and understands that vehicle, inspect it, do the proper testing, create a diagnostic, a diagnostic process, plan for it and pay for that. That's the least expensive way to fix your car. And this, the stuff we do in our industry, like taking it over to, you know, one of the parts houses and they're going to test it for free and then sell you an oxygen sensor and you're going to bring it in and I'm going to put it on your car. Can't, can't make that work. Right. I, and we, we have to stop as an industry doing those kinds of things. And we have to, and, and those of us that are in the industry that are being affected by that, we should be fighting that tooth and nail. Yeah. Right. [01:40:33:04 - 01:40:54:18] Lucas Underwood  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Got an incoming question and I vote. I know which one it is. And it's Mike Allen saying, are you super clear if you have to pump this to a specialist that you're still charging? Yes. Now listen, I've had issues with advisors not being super clear, but I am super clear and I am very, very transparent about that. [01:40:54:18 - 01:41:24:15] Cecil Bullard  And what I want to, what I really want to teach my advisors is this. We need to be as clear as, as I mean, crystal clear about what the costs are going to be and what's going to happen with our clients. And by the way, if I want a client to argue with me about the cost, do I want that to happen before I work on the car or after my tech is spent two hours on the car and created a plan, right? And, and what happens a lot is the advisors, we have a lot of. [01:41:25:23 - 01:42:43:22] Cecil Bullard  Unqualified salespeople in our industry. We're not really salespeople. Okay. They're not really advisors and, and they're, they might be the nicest people. They might be all kinds of things, but they're not really advisors and they have a fear, I don't want to have this conversation because it's going to be a potential to have that person be mad at me or have that person take their car away or whatever, and they may walk away and not like me. Right. And, and, and so we're vague. We're vague about our answers. We're vague about what we're going to do. We're vague. How many shops have you walked into that have a very good script about Diag and what they do, why they do it, what the costs are, why those costs are the costs and what, what is likely to happen and what could happen. You know, how many shops have that script that your service advisors know and understand. So that customer is right off the bat understanding what's really going to happen and why it needs to happen that way. I would tell you for me, like sales and building value, it's so easy, but it is not easy for the average service advisor because they've been taught how to do that and they don't have the experience to do that. Right. And so we, yeah, we, we need to, yeah, we got to clean that up. [01:42:43:22 - 01:44:28:21] Lucas Underwood  You know, look, we, we pick on Mike, but, but let's be honest about why Mike does a lot of what Mike does in this instance. And it's because Mike needs a competitive advantage. He is, he is in a very, very heavily saturated area. There's a lot of shops around him. There's a lot of people around him too, but he uses this as a tool to try and drive more people in the door. He uses it to set himself apart from the rest of the crowd. I use something completely different, right? Like for me, I'm using the fact that we can test anything. I'm using the fact that we have abilities nobody else has. And we have those abilities because we pay our guys to learn this. We pay our guys to go to training. We have this set up so they can develop these skills and we have the equipment and that costs money, right? I understand like in their eyes, a lot of times it's like, Hey, they don't really know that they're still paying for it. They don't understand that it's in the labor rate, but to me, like, I feel like that devalues the industry as a whole. I feel like it makes it look like this should be a free service. You know, just two weeks ago, we had a car in the shop that, that came through and he called somebody else and they, they were going to do the job we were going to do for $700 for $240. And they're telling them about how we're ripping them off. They've never heard of a coolant service. They've never heard of this. They've never heard of that. And then we look at our industry as a whole and it's like, Hey, this guy's over here talking smack on an industry standard just to talk smack about it. I think if we could align ourselves, if we could get our industry moving in a more similar direction, where we're, we're making it better about our actions in our shops, our single shops at a time, we have a chance at getting this industry to where it's seen as a professional industry. [01:44:28:21 - 01:44:34:01] Cecil Bullard  So let me ask you, let me ask you a question. I got, I got a couple of points, but let me ask you this question. [01:44:35:22 - 01:44:49:09] Cecil Bullard  We're going to go somewhere and have a steak. Yeah. All right. And they've got a, uh, I don't know. It's $120 steak. Yeah. Um, but they also have a $30 steak and they're the same steak. [01:44:49:09 - 01:44:50:04] Lucas Underwood  Yeah. [01:44:50:04 - 01:45:00:22] Cecil Bullard  Okay. Does that, did, would that even play? I mean, would, would anybody at all look at the $30 steak and think that's the $120 steak? [01:45:01:23 - 01:45:15:16] Cecil Bullard  No. Right. So if somebody comes into my shop and we're going to charge them $700 for whatever, right? Uh, Mike, that's my imaginary shop. Okay. Um, I don't own one. I'm thinking of buying one just because you put, you goaded me, [01:45:15:16 - 01:45:18:00] Lucas Underwood  but no, I missed this. [01:45:18:00 - 01:45:55:09] Cecil Bullard  But, but, um, uh, if I'm 700 and they call and say, this guy is, is saying he doesn't even know, never heard of this and he's going to charge $240 for the same thing, you know, my answer would be it's not the same thing. It can't be the same thing. Because if he, if he knew what he was doing, if he understood his business, if he understood the time it was going to take to properly diagnose and fix this car correctly, he'd be charging you $700 also. And then I want to, I want to play on something you said. Mike uses this for competitive advantage because he's in a saturated place. [01:45:56:13 - 01:47:28:26] Cecil Bullard  Boo hoo. I mean, every, you're, you're somewhat unique, right? In your out in the country and you're kind of further away. There's a two thirds of the shops are in saturated places. And there are a lot of guys that aren't using, well, we don't charge for diagnostic as their competitive advantage. And they're doing just fine. I know they're my clients, right? Um, I, I always talk about this stupid book. I'm going to write that Cecil, you don't understand is the title, you know, I love it. You, you don't, you don't understand Cecil. Um, my shop had 41 shops within a mile of it and two dealerships and we were $58 higher than the next shop and we were the busiest shop. We had the happiest clients, the most satisfied. Uh, we, I believe we were the most profitable, although I didn't see all the other shops, P and L's. I did see some of them because I was, you know, that's when I started my coaching career. But, but I, I, I don't need to do that for a competitive advantage. I need to take great care of my clients. I need to help them understand why it costs, what it costs and how they're paying when somebody says, you know, I can get it done for 240 and you're going to charge me 700, you must be ripping me off. I have to say, wait a minute. Time out. No, that's not true. Because if you and I go to the restaurant and I ordered the $120 steak and you order the $30 steak, we're not getting the same steak. Okay. [01:47:30:04 - 01:48:17:23] Cecil Bullard  And in, in, intelligently, internally, we understand that emotionally. We don't necessarily get that. We have to help our clients take their understanding and create emotional intelligence around that, uh, with what we, we charge and why we charge it. And I would say that most shop owners understand that we, or at least believe that if the client comes to them, the client is going to get a better repair, a better job, we care more, et cetera. And we should definitely feel that way about it, but a good salesperson helps the client take their emotion, their mental intelligent understanding and create emotional understanding around that. [01:48:17:23 - 01:49:58:04] Lucas Underwood  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that if we, if we are not doing that, and so it's your job as a coach to do that for us, it's our job as a business owner to do that for, for your people, for our people and our people's job to do that for the client coming through the door. And I genuinely see that if we don't start taking moves to move our industry in that direction, as far as educating the consumer about the value in what we do, that we are professionals, right? And see that, that, that's the thing that trips me up on this. Because I can look at Mike's shop and say, that's my friend's shop. I love him. I care about him. I want the best for him. And if that's what's working best for him, so be it. He can do whatever he wants. The thing that, that hems me up on that is that I know that it has a detrimental impact to our industry in the longterm, right? There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. We've seen what it does. We see what the code scan from AutoZone and Advanced Auto Parts does to our industry. And so we know that not charging for that testing makes it look more like a commodity. Right. And I'll never forget. One of these coaches we're talking about was on a podcast a while back and he said, man, he said, I'm a retailer. I'm a retailer. I don't care about the industry. I don't care about any of that. I'm a retailer. I'm here to make money. And I'm like, but, but we're not retail. We're professionals. This is our job. We are here to advise, consult, provide information to the consumer, help them make an informed decision about one of their most expensive purchases that they'll ever make in their lifetime. Right. And it's not just about money to us. [01:49:58:04 - 01:50:16:05] Cecil Bullard  And if that customer takes care of their vehicle, that vehicle will service them and service them well for a very, very long time. Now, now here's the, here's the other thing. And I think this is like super important. And we have to stop complaining. [01:50:17:11 - 01:50:48:22] Cecil Bullard  We have to stop talking. I'm not, not talking about the bad stuff. And, and, and I can't, whose actions can I, can I change? Luke, Lucas, can I make you do something? No, I can't make you do anything. I can only change my own actions. So we, if we want consumers to understand the value of what we do, we have to start talking like what we do has value, not like what we do is crap. [01:50:49:22 - 01:51:04:17] Cecil Bullard  And, and there'll always be some bad guys out there. We can't, we can't help that. We can't make that go away. You know, um, like I said, it's a good thing. I don't have that power because I would do some, [01:51:04:17 - 01:51:06:07] Lucas Underwood  there would be some people, uh, [01:51:07:07 - 01:51:08:03] Lucas Underwood  burning crisp. [01:51:08:03 - 01:52:23:22] Cecil Bullard  Yeah. But, but, but I can be as positive as I can be and work towards a better industry and, and try to bring people together to, to work towards that better industry, I can influence again, what we say on our podcasts and, and how we say it or what we say in our, um, our groups and how we say it, I can influence that hopefully, but I can't change it all. I can only change as much as I can change it and work as hard as I can work. Um, I, we, we, we want to be seen as professionals as an industry. And yet many of us don't act as professionals and we need to, we need to turn that corner. Yeah. Okay. And whatever that takes, I mean, if it's a, if it's a badge that we wear a star on our forehead, a tattoo, whatever, whatever that's going to take, I'm for it. As long as we change the conversation and we start moving towards, you know, becoming in being the professionals that we know we need to be and that we know we should be, that's what we, that's what I'm for. [01:52:23:22 - 01:53:29:05] Lucas Underwood  You're exactly right. And I think that it takes experience. I think it takes commitment to trying to do the right thing, focused on doing the right thing. And, and sometimes it has to be, you know, I, and I'm with you, right? Like I've, I've really shifted over the past couple of years from, Hey, I'm primarily focused on our industry and making our industry better, right? But I still have to be able to pay my bills. I still have to be able to take care of myself and my family and I have to be there for them and, and I've seen the impacts through other people's actions of what misaligned, uh, desired outcomes or misaligned intentions can do. And so I recognize that I have to align my, my family, myself, they have to come first, my business has to come first, but still yet, every decision I make in my business, I'm trying my very best to say, how can I improve this industry? How can I make this industry a better place? Because one day I have this vision that I'll maybe my son owns this shop and I want his life as a shop owner to be easier than mine, because I'm not going to lie. This has been a slog. [01:53:30:05 - 01:53:30:11] Lucas Underwood  Okay. [01:53:30:11 - 01:55:23:25] Cecil Bullard  I'm just saying you like it. I mean, that's the other part. You know, we, we, we go through our lives and, and you know, I, I'm not, I always say I'm not supposed to be in this industry. I wasn't, this wasn't the plan. And, and here I am, you know, 44, 45 years later and here, you know, here I am. And I've been in this industry and, and, uh, it's been good to me. It hasn't been easy. But you know what, the hard part of it has, what's kept it interesting and, and make me strive and all of that. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't think there's a perfect anything and, and, you know, thank you, who, whoever's in charge of the universe for doing that to us so that we, so that we know how to strive and that we continue to strive. Um, I've had a great life. I've enjoyed my life. Uh, I'm going to hopefully enjoy it for another 20, 25 years and, and, uh, continue to try and influence, um, the industry to be as professional as possible. And, uh, I just, I really want to go to the changing the industry blog and all the, the, you know, the group and, and I want to see some people say, man, you know, my owner Lee is just a great guy. And man, this is a great shop that I work in. And there's such great opportunity to be a tech in this industry today. You could almost write your own ticket. And I'd love to see some owners go in there and say, you know what, man, it, it's a struggle, there's some bad weeks and occasionally there's a bad month, but overall, man, what a great industry we work in, because if we can't, if we can't talk about it that way and be that way with it, the public is never going to understand why they pay us a nickel. Yeah. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. If we get, we got to get more positive focused in this industry. [01:55:24:25 - 01:55:45:28] Cecil Bullard  And, uh, so look for the, uh, automotive industry initiative coming out soon, which, uh, is the group of, uh, people we put together and we're going to be putting more people into that pile to drive the industry towards more professionalism and towards, um, worse, uh, to be more solidified and more positive. [01:55:46:29 - 01:55:47:03] Cecil Bullard  Absolutely. [01:55:47:03 - 01:56:17:17] Lucas Underwood  It's going to be great Cecil. Thank you for being here today. Everybody. Thank you for, for being part of the conversation. Our dear friend, David over at inbound is going to get all kinds of diagnostic questions because the email says support at call inbound. So, you know, David, listen, you just answered the best you can. We'll riff off of it next time. Okay. So, uh, you know, I'm really excited about the things that are happening and the moves that we're making and even, even little old Mike Allen over here, his efforts in the industry have been huge as well. [01:56:17:17 - 01:56:21:13] Cecil Bullard  I'm going to have to give him a big old wet kiss on the cheek next time I see him. [01:56:21:13 - 01:56:49:14] Lucas Underwood  So that's it. He would enjoy that very much. So, uh, but I am so thankful to be here with you today, Cecil, and I can't wait for the next one. We got another one coming up next month and, uh, it's just been a blast. And if you guys have any additional questions, make sure that you email over to the Institute and we'll try and answer those next time on our next AMA with Cecil Buller. Cecil, thank you, sir. Thank you, Lucas. Have a good day, buddy. Love you, brother. Love you, man.

204 - Part 1: Using AI in Your Shop to Increase Performance

204 - Part 1: Using AI in Your Shop to Increase Performance May 6th, 2026 - 00:59:50 Show Summary: Artificial intelligence is reshaping how auto repair shops operate in practical ways. Jonathan Seitzer shares how AI can improve communication analyze data and save time on daily tasks. He explains a simple framework of rent it feed it and put it to work to help shop owners get started. AI is positioned as a tool that multiplies performance not replaces people. Real demos show how shops can create better customer messaging and gain insights from their data in minutes. The conversation also highlights the need to review AI outputs and use it responsibly. It closes with a look ahead at AI agents and how owners can begin experimenting today.   Host(s): Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/about-us]   Guest(s): Jonathan Seitzer, Owner, Dempsey’s Service Center [http://dempseysservicecenter.com]   Show Highlights: [00:00:00] – Introduction to AI use in daily auto shop operations. [00:02:35] – Background in finance and technology applied to auto repair business. [00:06:20] – Three ways to use AI rent it feed it put to work. [00:08:17] – AI acts as multiplier not replacement for shop owners. [00:10:21] – Simple AI tools improve customer communication and service descriptions. [00:15:02] – Always check AI outputs since mistakes and errors can happen. [00:19:00] – AI helps create clear customer talk tracks from technician notes. [00:30:16] – AI quickly analyzes parts data saving hours of manual work. [00:37:31] – AI summarizes content into audio saving time each day. [00:45:21] – Use AI internally while maintaining trust with customers.   In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry? Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode. 👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/8_dcnz_4csE [https://youtu.be/8_dcnz_4csE]   Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!   Links & Resources:  * Want to learn more? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/] * Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/business-assessment%7C] * See The Institute's events list: Click Here [https://www.wearetheinstitute.com/upcoming-events] * Want access to our online classes? Click Here [https://www.gearforshops.com/pages/course-library] ________________________________________ Episode Transcript Disclaimer This transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com [marketing@wearetheinstitute.com].   Episode Transcript: Jimmy Lea: Hey, good afternoon, friends. Depending on where, when you are joining us, it could be morning, afternoon, or evening. Good to see you, my friend. I'm glad you're here. Glad we are gonna have this conversation today as we talk about the future of our industry, and how does artificial intelligence really fit into our day-to-day operations? What does that look like? This is gonna be an interactive conversation. What do I mean by that? No, you're not gonna come on camera. No, we're not gonna unmute your microphone. Go to the comments section. We're live streaming on Facebook and YouTube and StreamYard. Go to that comments section and type in there your questions, comments, or concerns. In fact, go into that comments section and type in where you're joining us from, the name of your shop. Love to give you a shout-out as we talk about this industry that we love that's doing so well for us. And yeah, drop in your name and where you're joining us from because it's super exciting to be here with you, friends. It's super exciting. First and foremost is the current coach for our guest, Mr. Wayne Marshall, CEO of GEAR Group Holding, and he is joining us from Iowa. Good to have you with us, Wayne. Thank you for being here, brother. Also Steve from B&C Auto Center in San Jose, California. We've got Peggy from High Street Auto Repair, Jefferson City, Missouri. Jeff from Miller's Automotive, Orange Park, Florida. Jeff Byrne from German Tech Motorworks, Louisville, Kentucky. And let's see, Fernando, Rohrehard Park Transmission, Northern California. Evans from Evans & Lukes in Columbus, Ohio. Evan, good to see you again, brother. How you doing? Oh, that's awesome. And Justin Pepper, Quality Auto Repair here in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Nice. Glad you guys are here. Thank you for those who are vocal and know where that comments button is. This is gonna be so much fun. We're gonna have such a great conversation here. Joining me today is John from... Oh, one more shout-out. Todd from Atlanta Speedworks in Gainesville, Georgia. John joins us today from, where are you joining us from? Jonathan Seitzer: Newark, Delaware, Dempsey Service Center. Jimmy Lea: Dempsey Service Center. And John is a very recent purchaser, a recent joining the ranks of ownership, of shop ownership, and he joins us from computer industry, the computer world. What's your background, John? What qualifies you as a computer surgeon? Jonathan Seitzer: Prior to my move to the automotive industry, I was the head of product at Moody's Analytics for some of their suite of compliance products for, for their banking and government services. Prior to that I was at JPMorgan Chase for 10 years in various technology roles. I am not a developer. I live in the product and business analysis world. So for those of you shop owners out there, you should think of me a little bit like a service advisor in my last life. My job was to stand between my customers and my my software developers, help understand what the customer needed it, translated it into something the software developers could build, and then get that information back to the customer when we had a solution for 'em. Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it, Jon. This is awesome. Love that you come from the world of computers, and I guess technically we could call you a financial whiz. Jonathan Seitzer: You c- you can call me all sorts of things. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I heard JP Morgan Chase and a lot of financial institutions you were talking about. Congrats on that, that career, that lifespan that you had there in, in that industry. And oh, my gosh, look, we've got a few more shout-outs. Brandon from Pete's in Topeka, Kansas. Todd Compton's Automotive in Charlotte, North Carolina, and Lance Lupe joining us from... Lance, I, I can never remember where you're at. I think he's in New York. It might be New Jersey. I think it's New Jersey. Anyways, Lance is here with us as well. Jon so excited with your background. We had a great conversation at MARS in last October. Looking forward to another MARS conference, Marketing for Automotive Repair Shops, coming this October. Our conversation last October, we talked about, you talked about, hey, you know what? I do a lot with AI. I do a lot with the large language learning, and I really would love to share this with others in our industry and h- how they can use it, and what would make a difference for them. So let's help everybody else catch up to the conversation you and I had, Jonathan. How is it that you're using AI in your day-to-day? What are you doing? Jonathan Seitzer: So there's all sorts of different things. I'll actually, I have some demos we'll be showing in just a minute, but how about we head into the the presentation, and I'll walk you through the whole thing. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The floor is yours, brother. Hey, so everybody, as you're listening to Jon, you've got questions, go ahead and type them into the box because as Jon is doing this demo on the different AI systems, it takes a minute to process, so that's a good opportunity for us to ask questions. So keep those questions coming in that comments box All right. Jonathan Seitzer: Awesome. Thank you, Jimmy. So hello everybody. Welcome. As said, my name is John Seitzler. I am the owner of Dempsey Service Center. We have been in business for 40 years here in Newark, Delaware. But as I said earlier prior to that I was... I've spent the last 15 years on Wall Street in various product and technology roles. And what qualifies me to talk to you all a little bit about AI is actually during my last stop, I was lucky enough in to release two different AI products to the market. One back in 2019 when we weren't really talking about AI all that much, and then again right before I left in 2025 we released our first agentic AI product into the market. I've got a fair bit of experience with AI knowing what it does, more importantly, what it doesn't do. And I just wanna get that information to you guys here. The fun part about this for me is I'm not here to sell you guys anything. I'm just here to help, and at the end of the thing I'll get you all my email. So in the event that you have questions, if you need help, if you're thinking about it, you want somebody to bounce an idea off, reach out. I am I am available. I look at AI in three different ways. There are three things you can do with AI as a shop owner. That's you can rent it, you can feed it, and you can put it to work. Now, in this demo, what we're going to do is I'm gonna... We're gonna talk about the first two. Put it to work is a big conversation. There's a lot of different things you can do, and there's a lot of different hurdles and jumps that you have to make to do it in a way where you can trust it. So we're gonna split that one out into another webinar in a couple weeks, so I hope to see a lot of you guys back there as we're doing that. But I think this diagram right here kinda, kinda illustrates, the amount of effort that goes into each one of this. Rent it, small and easy. Feed it, not as big as put it to work, but bigger than rent it. You're still gonna have to do some work. You're going to have to do some learning. And then when it's time to put it to work you have to decide really is the time commitment I'm going to spend making this happen worth what I'm going to get out of it? And some of you are going to say no, and I want you guys to know that's okay. I know everybody hears everything about AI. It's all over the news. It's everywhere. That do- and there's a fear of we might get left behind. AI is helpful AI is incredibly helpful. It can make you much more efficient. It can help you unearth things. But I think the big thing I want to get out of this to you is to help understand what the role of the AI in your shop actually could be. AI is not going to replace I don't think very many people here in the automotive industry. The, all of the whys for that is a larger conversation than I've got here. But w- how you guys should think of AI is not as, "Oh, this is, maybe I can replace one of my vendors at some point. Maybe I can replace, w- my service advisor," something like that. No. AI, or at least the way I use AI, is as a multiplier. AID, AI is PEDs for the shop owner that understands their operations and their data. It will make you... It will take a good shop owner and make them great. Y- you cannot at any point go I'm not doing, I'm not doing well. Let's chuck some AI at it, and everything's going to be fixed." It just doesn't work that way. So all that said, let's talk about the easiest thing you can do today with AI, and that's rent it. Now, what do I mean by rent it? Rent it is you all as shop owners pay for a number of services. And right now, because AI is a fantabulous buzzword, and every one of these services that you pay for, especially if they are a publicly traded company, is they're going in front of their investors, and their investors are saying, "What are you doing with AI?" And all of these companies are trying to figure out where AI fits within the products and services that they sell. So if you use QuickBooks, there's an AI assistant. If you used any of the Google Workspace or Microsoft Office products, there is an AI in there. Your shop management system, more than likely at this point, has an AI in there in some ways, and some of the uses are big, right? AI and Microsoft Excel as somebody who literally made his career at the start in Microsoft Excel coding stuff because, my old bosses who were around before Excel didn't wanna learn it AI can make, AI can do wild things in Microsoft Excel. Do I use a lot of them? No, 'cause I don't really need them. You know what I use when I rent AI the most? It's this that you see on my screen. So my shop management system has a a little improve button that I can use when my techs send me- what on the right, which is a very sparsely worded, all caps missing some verbs sometimes write-up about whatever it is that they're working on. Now, in the past, what we might have done was just copied and pasted that, and that's what the customer got to see, right? J- on their invoice. Now, what we can do is I can hit an Improve button, and it's going to run through that. It's going to try to determine the context, it's going to spit out just a nice paragraph. Is that the world's biggest time saver? No. Does it lead to a better experience for my customers? Yes. So I wind up using I wind up using that in the rented category, honest to God, more than anything else we're going to talk about today because I have, a fair number of techs, and none of my technicians like using anything other than short paragraphs in all caps locks. That's rented. Why is rented important? So when we talk about what my past life, right? My past life was f- my whole job was figuring out, "How do I put this into my tools?" So when you're renting your AI, one, you're not, it's not costing you really anything else because you're already, you're getting it as part of the service. Two, the AI that you are using has been thoroughly vetted, in many cases, by a team of people who are just like I used to be, whose whole job is to figure this stuff out and test it in every way. So the risk of you using it is much, much lower. That's an important thing to understand about AI is AI is not deterministic. It's probabilistic. And what I mean by deterministic versus probabilistic is AI uses probability to deter- to figure out what the next word it's going to say as it's writing a sentence to you. This, it's all math. Deterministic is literally, I flip a switch and the light goes off. I flip the switch, light goes on. It's determined. It will never be, it will always be one of those two things. The light goes off or the light goes on, and if it doesn't do one of those things, that means your light bulb's broken. So that's rented. Simplest thing you can do. The return on it isn't as big, but it can make your life easier if you're using things like the QuickBooks Assistant, or it do- it might do something as simple as make the invoices that your customers see a little bit better. Things you need to do when you're when you're renting it is, first off- Look through your tools. Who's offering this to you and where are they offering it? Determine the features they're offering, right? A feature in my shop management thing that cleans up things, that's super useful. Maybe they add AI somewhere else and I have to think do I really want AI there? Do I want something that could make mistakes that I'm not supervising in use? So explore your tools, identify your features, and then start playing with it. Again, these are part of the tools that you are already paying for. You can afford to experiment. You're not-- you don't have to go out and buy a subscription or learn how to use a Claude code or a OpenAI codex or a Google Antigravity. You have them here and ready for you. They're in the tools as you understand them. It just changes a little bit your process, and you can decide, is this worth changing up my process for? Things to watch out. The quality of the AI varies by the vendor. Not all AI is created equal. The more powerful the model, typically the more expensive it is to serve. A lot of times what your your vendor that's offering you an AI product isn't using the most powerful model out there. They might be using something open source. So all things AI, and if you get nothing else from this, get this audit it. Check it for mistakes, especially when you're starting out. I was even prepping for this. I was running a couple demos on my side and it made, a couple of boneheaded decisions and spit out some information that wasn't right. So you've always got to check it. Then additionally, as you start to implement it, you should have experienced people working at your shop wherever you're using this stuff, looking at it before it goes out. If AI is cleaning up your emails or your or, service descriptions on your invoices, that doesn't absolve your service advisor of looking at the invoice before they fire it off to the customer. And then also you have to assume anybody who's used ChatGPT I like to say AI has an accent. ChatGPT especially has an accent. If you have somebody that's used AI a lot, you can tell when AI writes something and the way to get around that is to teach AI how to write like you want it to write. If you just let it go, people are going to be able to tell. I can tell definitely. All right. Here's where we're gonna have some fun. I have a few different demos we're gonna get to run through for here. And let's first talk about feed it, right? Feed it is what we think about AI how we've been using it a lot these last few years, right? You would log into a browser, there would be your AI chatbot, you could type your question, your comment, your whatever, and it would output some type of result. As they got more advanced, you started to be able to attach things to it to offer it additional context. And so it went from, "Tell me about the history of the moon landing," to, "I have a spreadsheet, I'm gonna attach the spreadsheet. Tell me about my spreadsheet." So this is the second piece where you can start to get real value out of AI, is you have systems that generate data. Why not use your-- these chatbots, these AIs, to help you understand your data? There's, me as a person who came from a technology background and moved into automotive with no real experience in automotive at all, outside of being a, an enthusiast my shop management system produces so much more data than, even I could process. Without this stuff, I'd be hours a week crafting pivot tables and running analysis just to try and understand where we are, where things I can literally do in minutes, if not seconds. And I'll show that to you as we move forward, right? So you can use things like your customer feedback, your service histories, your repair orders, your parts inventories to get real good analysis out of these tools. So let's go on a ride, folks. I have no, no idea what's about to happen. This should work. So let's start with our first demo, and I think this is the most fun. Like I said, I was prior to this, I worked in technology. I do not have a background in automotives. I am a shop owner that does not know anything about how to fix cars, and I had never written service before I took over this shop just a few months ago, right? So a couple of weeks ago, when my service advisor wanted to go on vacation with his family for a week and I only have one service advisor guess what? Time to learn how to write some service. And as somebody who doesn't, who, One of my technicians will come to me and say, "This is what I need and this is what's wrong." I understand it in theory, but less in concept. So I developed a script that I used to help take what the technicians were recommending to me and give me a talk track that I could use to customers. So when I was talking to my customers, they didn't necessarily know how way in over my head I was. So this i- these are my service writer instructions, not for my actual service writer, but for my AI service writer. This is when you're feeding it or yeah, when you're feeding it, sometimes the thing you want to do is just ask your questions, but sometimes what you want to do is you want to give your AI a role and give it some guardrails to lower your risk that the AI is going to go farther than you want, or worst case, make up something that isn't actually true. Thing to understand about these things is they want... Want is a bad word. I don't like anthropomor- morphizing machines, but the AI is designed to try and be helpful. It wants to get you an answer to your question, and sometimes when it can't find one, it just makes one up. Or if it can't find a piece of data, it makes one up. I told you earlier it did something boneheaded. When I was testing this it, I gave it a vehicle, and it decided that the odometer reading on the vehicle was 253,000 miles for a Ford Mustang GT, which would make it the greatest Mustang GT in the world. So in this case, I am giving my AI a set of instructions that it's going to use to help me come up with a talk track for my thing, but here are the rules, right? So I give it the set of instructions. I give it what's going to happen, "Hey, these are the steps you have to follow." I tell it what a service writer does. I tell it what to consider here for their talk track. And then this is important. When I told you AI has a accent, this is how I scrub the accent and I tell AI to talk like I want it to. So I've come up with a brand voice and rules for my brand here in, at Dempsey's, and I give that to the AI and I tell it, "You gotta... Here's what your tone is supposed to be. You are not allowed to do this. You are not allowed to use jargon. You are going to present the findings honestly. You're going to avoid certain words. You're going to recommend certain things if they need to." We do have financing, right? "You're going to tell them about our warranty." Then I tell it how I want it to structure the response, and then here's the u- last thing, I tell it what it is absolutely not allowed to do, what not to do. You can't include pricing. You don't get to invent a finding that isn't in the RO. You don't get to diagnose anything that the technician didn't say, and you don't get to tell the customer what to do. So now how does this work? This is always available to me, so I'm going to copy it. I'm going to come back to my repair order, and there's a bunch of different ways to do this, but this is the way I like I like to use this, is I u- I pay for Gemini's Gemini's AI. So Gemini is Google's large language model. And at the tier I use, I get a little thing in my browser that I can do this, and it says, "Hey, how can I help?" And when you do this in the browser, what it's doing is it's sharing my browser with the AI. So now the AI can see basically everything I can see, right? And now I'm just going to paste in... Nope, definitely not gonna do that one. I am going to paste in my instructions. And then this is also another important one. You typically get options with your AI what kind of model do you want, right? You almost never want to use this. This is basically the free AI. Free AI is bad, and I'll go into this a little later, but free AI is typically the lowest capability. It thinks the least amount, it gives you the fastest response, and it gives you the least accurate response. There's a time and a place for this but in most cases I use thinking. So I've given it my thing, and we're gonna let it think. And while it does that, Jimmy, do we have any questions? Jimmy Lea: N- none questions that have come through yet. But I'm absolutely fascinated. When you designed the voice of your service advisor, did you use your LLM to design that language for your service advisor voice? Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Yes. Okay. So I created... So I've Russian nesting dolled my my brand voice. I used an LLM to come up with my initial brand voice document. Yeah. So it, it contains all the rules of the brand, and I ha- I do that by having the AI interview me about what I want and then telling it I want a brand voice document, and it gives me something there, because I'm not, I don't have a marketing background. I don't know how to create a brand voice. Okay. And then what I do is I share that document again with the AI, and I'm telling it what I'm trying to accomplish. I, my service writer's going on vacation. I don't I need to understand, I don't understand cars super well. I need to be able to give the customer- the information about their repair and their estimate. Here's, these... This is what I want. Here's my brand voice document. Write me a list of instructions and it- make sure you incorporate the brand voice. Jimmy Lea: Nice. I love that. So even in your instructions, you were talking about your service advisors leaving. Eh, let's say the service advisor is still there, we've got a brand new service advisor or we want to have a voice that is able to speak to a client or a customer in a, in easy terms and not speak down to them, but speak on a level that they're gonna be able to understand. That could be part of the instruction for the service advisor voice as well, correct? Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Yes, absolutely. And it is part of it is part of mine, right? When we're talking about, warm, straightforward, neighborly, no pressure, you're an expert neighbor who explains things clearly 'cause you genuinely care. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. And that ensures what I get back should be to that level. But also, what did I say earlier? We're not just blindly trusting this. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: So we're going to look. So here's what we have, right? Jimmy Lea: And one more question here before you go into this. Jonathan Seitzer: Sure. Jimmy Lea: Do you find that as you continue to use this LLM and as you continue to feed it with information, does it improve in its voice and tone and become more refined as to past inputs versus no? No, sweet. Jonathan Seitzer: No. This is very important when you're dealing with LLMs. These things don't learn. So the moment I push this button right here and it spouts- Yeah ... out a new one, it's forgotten it's ever told me anything. Jimmy Lea: Oh. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. So there are certain applications now. So ChatGPT, Claude they do retain some memory. Okay. You can say, "Hey, remember this about me." So Claude's always going to remember that my name's John, that I own a shop, that I'm in New York, that I have a dog named Chrissy, that kind of stuff. But it's not... The AI does not improve itself, right? That's what all, y- that's what all these LLM companies are spending billions and billions of dollars trying to get to. It's not self-improving. It doesn't remember. If this thing spat out something that was totally awful, what I would probably do is I would figure out w- where and why, and then I would have to come back here and tinker with these instructions. Jimmy Lea: Change your instructions, yeah. A question's coming from John. Is there any way for you to share your instructions that you're using with Claude? And I think the answer is yes. However, the deeper answer or should be maybe... Jonathan Seitzer: Create your brand voice. Jimmy Lea: Create your brand voice. Have that interview with your ChatGPT or with your Claude and have chat ask you all those questions so that it comes through for you. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. And you can do... y- I'm sure a lot of people are saying how do I do that?" You... These things are, it's... Once you get the hang of talking to this- Yeah ... it's wild how fast it unlocks. So how do you do it? Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: You ask, "Interview me. I need a brand voice document for my auto repair shop." You give it as much context as you can. "Interview me to get the thing." And it will quest- one question at a time, ask you questions. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, that's exactly it. Yeah the answer is yes. However, have your own Jonathan Seitzer: interview. If y- if I, if you use, if I send you my stuff, you're using my brand voice, which I think I have a great brand voice, but that doesn't mean it's yours. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no. And I know, John, I know, John, you're gonna have a great conversation with your ChatGPT and have it interview you what kind of voice you want. And brand voice is the keyword that you wanna use there, John. Yes. So maybe what we c- develop here, Jonathan is some guidelines for them creating their brand voice. But anyways let's go back to what you're showing here, because- Sure ... this is where it gets exciting in putting this information into the point of sale system. Jonathan Seitzer: Yep. So here it's welcoming me to Dempsey's, so there's something in there that made... I wrote that told it I'm brand new. But yep, here we go. Here's our first mistake, right? This is not a 23,000 mile Mustang. You see there's nothing on the here that tells you it's a 23,000 Mustang. And again, we used the big, we used the more complex- Jimmy Lea: Don't create information ... marketing. You told it not- Yes ... to make stuff up, but it still made it up. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. But now it's looked at the, it's looked at the thing, right? It tells you what's completed and approved, so here are all the recommendations it's got, and now it's going to go through each of the recommendations, and it's gonna, So f- the first thing it's gonna do, it's gonna tell me what the fix is, right? So we're gonna walk through this, then it's gonna give me the customer talk track. These are actual phrases I can use on the phone with the customer. "Our technicians noticed the drive belt showing signs of age," things like that. And then it's going to talk about what our recommendation is, why it's important, and what happens if we wait, right? Yeah. And for a solid week, and for those of you who don't know if you are s- if you're a single owner shop with a single service writer- Yeah ... the fastest way to make your phone ring is to send your service writer on vacation for a week. We did almost a record amount of cars. And it was John sitting at a desk waiting for Gemini and Claude to spit out the, trying to talk. And I actually, one of my parts distributors said I closed a lot of sales that week, so it was good. Congratulations. We still managed. All right, so that's that's our first demo here. Let's do- Let's do some analysis, right? Yeah. All so now we're going to go directly into Claude itself. Give me just a second to pull up my demo file, and we're gonna do a parts... We're gonna do some parts information. You guys aren't... You'll see this change in the Claude screen. I'm dropping two I'm dropping two CSVs. So I'm dropping some parts data from my from my shop management system. And now- So Jimmy Lea: this isn't the whole catalog from your parts supplier, this is what you've used- Yes ... Jonathan Seitzer: in the past. This is parts data for the shop that, have come in, have come out. So basically now I need to tell the AI what I want. Here's why we're doing this. I need to get some information to my accountant. Can you look at the provided data and let me know what my parts inventory cost was at the end of February, March, and April? Break the cost into parts, tires, fluids, and batteries. Jimmy Lea: So that was all voice dictated. Yes. You used just the microphone s-... Okay. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. So I have a little program on the thing. I push a button, it records my voice. A lot of computers have this built in. I use a paid one just 'cause it's a little better, and guess what guess what's undergirding it? AI. Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: So here we go. So this is what I want. Tell me what my pa- I gotta get my accountant what my on-hand inventory co- or price was. So we're gonna let it think for a little bit. And yeah, do anybody have any type of questions or anything we can go through as this thinks? 'Cause now we're at the part where this is probably gonna take a little bit of time, 'cause we're asking it to do a lot of different things and generate a lot of different information. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So right now the process it's going through is opening each of these files and- ... looking into the dates, the parts, the costs. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Jimmy Lea: And it's trying to answer the question you've asked. So it's crunching a lot of data, and I'm assuming you've probably got hundreds of lines of data that it's crunching through. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Yeah. This is, every part we've ordered or has gone in or out the door since February 1st. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Jonathan Seitzer: So- This Jimmy Lea: could take a minute. Jonathan Seitzer: It's... You'd be surprised. I, my guess is probably... So right now it's tr- it's understanding the structure. Yeah, my guess is it's gonna take a minute or two. Yeah ... and anoth- that's another thing to get, to get used to as you're using these more advanced models. So there are basic models, there are thinking models, and then there's ways to make thinking models think longer. As you're using more and more complexity within your models, as you're turning on more features, if you're on these paid plans, you have usage limits. And somewhere depending on how much you pay it's, you're gonna hit your usage. Jimmy Lea: Got a question here from Sierra. She's asking, "Is this dir- linked directly into your shop management system, or do you have it upload all of the documents first, and then it does its searches?" Jonathan Seitzer: So I uploaded all the document for this demo. So I have an AI that is linked directly into my shop management system, or parallel linked via a public API. But we'll get more into that in two weeks. This is where the, I'm willing to spend nine hours on a Saturday building a connector into my shop system 'cause I'm a dork. Jimmy Lea: N- nerd. The preferred term is nerd. You're a nerd- Oh ... and we love nerds. Nerds are awesome. They're amazing. It keeps the world spinning, yes. Jonathan Seitzer: But yes. Jimmy Lea: So you love to nerd out on developing... this is your hobby. This is your go-to. This is your fun time. This is relaxing for you. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Yeah, this is I like building software and I... I like building software and I like building things that, that help me understand kinda what I've jumped into. 'Cause I can't stress this enough, I have not been working on cars for the last 15 years. Yeah. Or been a small business owner, or done anything that I do day to day anymore. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. I'm glad you have this as a hobby. This is so much fun. This is where AI is going to assist the humans, and AI is gonna assist us to become better. I think it's gonna elevate us as a human race. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. So while that thinks, let's do another one. So we'll jump into Gemini. And so everybody knows, my AIs of choice are Claude and Gemini. I've used ChatGPT. I have no problems with with it. Actually, ChatGPT's new model, I'm told, is spectacular, which was just released in these last couple of weeks. It's just a matter of, the, there, you can only pay for so many things, and for what I use Claude for- Yeah ... it just makes more sense for me. But you can do this across just about any one. There's, and, there's a lot of, i- as you get more into this, there's a lot of, "Oh this model's good, and this model's good." The ranking changes week to week, right? Anthropic's on top now. Three months ago everybody was saying Google had ended the debate. Yeah. Don't, you don't have to do exactly what I'm doing. But here, let's we can... and the beauty of this is we can kick off parallel demos. So allow me to pull my folder here. Let's do something a little easier here. Jimmy Lea: I thought that said disco. Jonathan Seitzer: So this, here's what I wanna do. I've just joined a local chamber of commerce, and they're sending me a welcome packet. Can you read it and give me a list of action items I should do in the next five, 10, and 30 days? Jimmy Lea: That's hilarious. Jonathan Seitzer: Jimmy, do you- That's awesome ... read PDFs anymore? What are you, Amish? Jimmy Lea: Evidently. Jonathan Seitzer: I'm new to all this. I can't be, I can't be bothered to open and read PDFs. Jimmy Lea: I love it. Okay, go back to the other one. Did Claude finish? Jonathan Seitzer: Claude did finished. Okay. Don't contain ending inventory. So yeah, this is where it gets funny. So this is where it'll start to quibble with me, right? On-hand, list of every SKUs. So now it's given me... Here we go. So this is my... We'll ignore February 'cause that was half a month. But yeah, so now I can, to my accountant, I can say this was my parts on-hand cost and please get that to my ba- get that on my balance sheet," right? And, three minutes. Jimmy Lea: Wow. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's great. The other things you would have had to have done is gone into your Excel file and been an Excel wizard. Which I'm a pretty good Excel wizard. I know a couple of people that are better than me. But yeah, it wouldn't have taken me three minutes. It would've taken me a heck of a lot longer than three minutes. Or- I click on data. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. Or I would have had to have I would have had to have pulled Excel files for February, for March, for data, and now I just all in one throw it into the thing. I don't have to spend a bunch of time playing around in pivot tables. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: And now I've got something. Now, obviously, double-check it. Yeah. I, I would, I've so I, I know this one works 'cause I've done it before. I've double-checked the numbers, so I know when I ask Claude this thing, 99% chance I'm going to get it right. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Jonathan Seitzer: All right. So there's that one. There's this one. And here we go. First five days, right? Oh my God. Things to do. Here's what to get done in 10 days. Here's 30. Now, in the next webinar, I can show you how to then fire this into your to-do list or project management tool, like a, an Asana or a Trello or something like that. And now it's not just a thing that lives on a web browser on my computer, it's on my phone in my app that I can go, I watched the video, click. Jimmy Lea: Love it. Jonathan Seitzer: And... Jimmy Lea: And you didn't have to read the PDF, Mr. Thomas. Jonathan Seitzer: Oh, gosh, no. It's, yes. Think of the time, think of the time savings. Now- Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah ... Jonathan Seitzer: w- we joke now because it's, it's one PDF and who can't read one PDF? I'm, maybe I'm unique in this. I get between 15 and 30 newsletters a day- Yeah across technology, politics, economics, yeah, all the stuff I used to have to pay attention to that I still like paying attention to. I don't have time to read 'em all every day, so I have a tool that collates all of them and then turns them into a 20-minute podcast for me to listen to. Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. So you're, so you've customized 15 newsletters into one single podcast, and you listen to it while you drive home from work. Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. So I do it twice a day. So I have a morning one and I have an evening one. So I listen to the evening one after, while I'm making dinner. I listen to the morning one as I'm finishing up my morning paperwork here and walking around and checking on things. Jimmy Lea: I love it. You're such a nerd. Jonathan Seitzer: I know. But it's Jimmy Lea: all- I'm glad I know you, John ... it's- I'm glad you're part of this industry. I'm glad you're helping share this with the rest of the world. Thank you. And the other John wanna know how it works. Jonathan Seitzer: It's all about buying back minutes, right? Time- Yeah ... and time is truly the only finite thing that we have. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: And if it, if 20 newsletter I want to read my 20 newsletters. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: I don't have the, I don't have two hours to do it every day. So- Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... Jonathan Seitzer: but I got 20 minutes to listen. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure, especially while you're multitasking, you're driving, you're building making dinner. Yeah. All right. So what else are you gonna show us? Jonathan Seitzer: All right. So this last one is just a variant of the one that we did, but it's a lot more shop oriented. So here I am attaching one, two, three, four, five, six files for the month of March. How do I wanna say this? I need to understand better how my month went. Please show me a breakdown of my top five services by make, model, and category, as well as the revenue generated for each. Jimmy Lea: Wait a second, Jonathan. You could also do this for an entire year to discover your most profitable vehicles as well too, right? Jonathan Seitzer: So that's actually a really good- call out. So technically, yes, but when you're dealing with these AIs, another fun thing to keep in to keep in mind is that the AI can only take so much contact, context. So what is context? Context is everything that's going into this conversation. So these conversations, like the AI's not really having, we're not having a chat, right? If I go away for four days and then come back to this chat in this window and answer a question, what's going to happen is the entire conversation is going to get sent back into the cloud. The LLM's going to reread the whole thing. Again, like I said, this has no memory. So every time you're having a long con- a conversation with AI, it's basically sending the whole conversation back and then returning the whole conversation back with a response. So the longer the conversation you have, the more you're filling up this context window of however many million tokens or hundreds of thousands of tokens, and once you hit that window, the AI will start to... it starts to get weird after a while. It's, it becomes more prone to making making mistakes because it just can't... It doesn't have the capacity to remember everything. So if you're ever on Claude and you're having a long conversation with Claude, and that it's compacting, that's where it's suddenly, it's taking that context, throwing out what it thinks it can, and trying to keep the relevant points to keep the conversation going. So when I say, "Oh, yeah, could I throw this for a whole year?" Yes, but I don't know how well... that just might be too much for the AI. So typically what I do is every month I run one of these. And at the end of every week I run one of these, and I pull top-line metrics out for the week, and I keep that in a tracker like its own Excel document, and now I can, at the end of the year, I can point the AI at that Excel document and tell it to give me yearly insights without overloading the context and risking you're gonna get some bad information back. Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Oh, that's awesome. All right. Jonathan Seitzer: So what- But yeah, look how fast this, look how fast this one came back, right? Here we are, top five service categories, repair versus inspection versus o- over the counter versus our snowplow business. We had 57 Fords, 33 unique, then Chevy, Dodge, Jeep and then we've got... that's, yeah that was an engine. So here's the actual, this is the fun... here's where you get insights, right? Jeep, revenue we had 10 unique ROs, but look at the revenue, right? So Jeeps are my unicorns. I don't get as many Jeeps as compared to Fords and Chevys, but the revenue, way up there, right? My- Yeah. So I know per ticket when I see a Jeep come in, oh, there's a chance this is going to be a much higher ticket for my shop, and that way I know. I know with three months of data that Jeeps and Silverados are what keep the lights on here. But as a snowplow seller also, I also know I have a lot of Silverados in this area, so when it's time for me to make my order for what type of snowplow mount kits am I making this year, I'm skewing to what I know I have a lot of, and I know I have a lot of because the da- I've got the data in this thing and it's summarizing it very cleanly for me. Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: So yeah. So that is that is my presentation. Nice. Our little... Or those are our live things, Jimmy Lea: yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: What time are... 1:48. All right. I can get through the rest of this pretty quick. All right. So again to summarize our feed it section make sure you're using the right tools that your shop needs. Start with the big ones, but I can't stress this enough, you're gonna have to pay out of pocket. Start with the $20 models, see where it gets you. Up your spend as you find value. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: Can't use that one. Don't throw your payroll data into this. The, the, these are going into the cloud. And also make sure that your that what you're getting back is accurate. You gotta check its work the first couple times, and that's not, I don't think, an unreasonable thing, right? You wouldn't hire a human and just let him go. Same thing here. In two weeks we're going to talk about the next evolution of this. The word you're probably hearing a lot now is agents. If you think of AI as a giant brain, think of agents as arms and legs. So we'll be talking about that in the next thing. But this is one important thing I wanna give to you guys before and, forgive me if I'm about to be a little vulnerable here. Jimmy Lea: Okay. Jonathan Seitzer: On the screen is the email you get from your company when you're laid off. So this was mine. Jimmy Lea: Oh. Jonathan Seitzer: Though, if you wonder why I'm not on Wall Street anymore, this is why. Now, AI did not take my job. I did not get laid off because of AI, and honestly, blessing in disguise 'cause now I have this cool new job. But there are a lot of people, and this is incredibly important I think, this is somebody who was an auto repair customer much longer than he's been an auto repair owner. If you live in an urban center with a large white collar population, understand that a lot of them are worried that this is coming. So when I'm using AI in my shop, and I am using AI a lot, you guys have all seen this, it's never customer-facing. I'm using it to make me better, but you saw my brand voice, right? I don't want my customer to ever think that they're dealing with an AI. 'Cause I think they n- you know, I think where I live, where there's a large white collar population, there's a lot of people that are worried about this. So by all means, use AI to increase, to make yourself a Superman inside your shop. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jonathan Seitzer: But be aware that people that, your customers probably have opinions about this, and use it use it for you. Don't push it to them if you're not sure they're, how they're going to take it. And that's my last thing. Jimmy Lea: Oh, man. I love it. I love it. A great shout-out here from Wayne. "Great job. AI's not gonna replace people, but love how it multiplies the effectiveness of the staff and the effectiveness of you as an owner and the effectiveness of your service advisor." It's really gonna help those relationships and those communications to happen at a much, a m- much better level. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Definitely. Jimmy Lea: Dude, John, this is awesome. Question here coming from... k- question, comment. It's more of a shout-out from Joshua. "There are solutions for connecting directly to your SMS." This is, in his estimation the best and easiest approach. Jonathan Seitzer: Y- I think it depends on your SMS. Like in my case to connect to mine, I had to talk to the I had to talk to them. I had to tell them what I was doing. I had to, make sure that they understood I w- I was building something for me, not something I'm trying to take to market. Yeah ... but y- you're right. Some of these SMSs, I think as we get more into it, they're going to start, it'll move into that rented space, where maybe from inside the SMS you can start to get a lot of this information. But there are ways to connect. Your mileage may vary depending on who your user is. Mine took a little bit of elbow grease. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's phenomenal. That's phenomenal. Great information, John. Thank you. This opening up, opens up a whole new world of possibilities for what we should look at as we go down this road with AI. My daughter, she came to me and she says, "Man, I'm really worried about AI. I think it's gonna replace my job." And I said it's not gonna replace your job, but the person who does understand how to use AI is the person that's gonna replace your job." Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah. And one of the things I liked to stress back in my old life is right now there are no old graybeards of the AI world, the way there are in just about every industry. The- Yeah ... those of you, those of us who are using it and figuring it out and charting the course, we're the ones who decide how it winds up going and what it winds up being good at. Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. For sure. John, this is gonna be awesome, man. Any advice going into our next webinar, any advice for what people can do to prepare? Jonathan Seitzer: I would research things like ChatGPT's Codex or Claude Code and CoWork. Those are the two most accessible kind of agent harnesses out there. What I would advise against is Claude, or not Claude OpenClaude, something like that, Hermes Agent, some of these open source plug your agent in. Please don't go out and buy like a MacBook Neo or a Mac mini, if God help you, you could even get a Mac mini anymore. These agents are the reason why you can't buy Mac minis right now or a Studio Ultra. The next piece is, so I would say this, if you know what the terminal is on your computer the next webs- the next website or the next web- webinar's gonna be very useful. If if you've never coded anything or you're not super, I'll do what I can to show you guys where it is and how it goes. But the next stuff is all nice to have fun extras, but don't feel like the next one you gotta, it's all stuff you gotta do. You're not missing out if you don't do this. And it comes with work. It like, how important is your Saturday? Me? Well- Not super much, but... Jimmy Lea: but this is your hobby. This is what you're doing. Exactly. This is your relaxing enjoyment time. Jonathan Seitzer: Yes. Jimmy Lea: So what I'm hearing you say is let's get into a ChatGPT and have a conversation. Yes. And for the other Johns of the world, have a conversation, have chat interview you about what you want your brand voice to be- Jonathan Seitzer: Yes Jimmy Lea: so that you can create a prompt for other LLMs to use as your brand voice as you're talking to them Jonathan Seitzer: Yep. Jimmy Lea: So beyond them creating a brand voice and getting ready for two weeks down the road, open ChatGPT, have a conversation. Open Claude, if that's the one you wanna use. Open Gemini, if that's the one you wanna use, and have a conversation preparing for what we're gonna do in two weeks. Is that... Are we gonna go through setting up an AI agent here in two weeks? Jonathan Seitzer: I, I can... So cl- that's where the Claude code. So Claude Claude Cowork is like a out of the box agent, right? And you just kinda have to point it at a spot on your computer to go. Like a full setup. Now I've got full dork, integrated agent on a server somewhere else that I talk to in Slack. Y- we're not gonna do that. But- Oh, s- Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: you are such a nerd. This is awesome. Oh, Jonathan Seitzer: yeah. Yeah. Oh, I see a comment from Jeff. You heard at a conference Claude is better. I said this earlier. It's, it bears repeating. Claude is winning now. Gemini was winning a month and a half ago. ChatGPT will have its moment again in the sun. Use the one you get the most value from and the one that you're comfortable paying whatever the price is to use it. My preference is Claude. I like the answers it outputs the most. Some people really like the way ChatGPT sounds or comes back to them. They like the quality of the answers. It really is a pers- preference. There, Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini whatever you pick, you're not you're not losing out too much I don't think. I think you're gonna get roughly, especially if what you're getting it, looking for is data back, you're going to get roughly the same quality of answers if you're using the paid versions. As long as you're using the paid version you stick. Jimmy Lea: Yeah ... Jonathan Seitzer: peggy. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Last question right here with Peggy. Where can- Jonathan Seitzer: YouTube University ... Jimmy Lea: AI answers for simple tasks like emails and calendars, et cetera. She didn't even know where to start, so this is for the total novice. Where can she start? Jonathan Seitzer: So there's a great channel on YouTube. Search a person named Elliot Prince. He's he's a British guy. He does a lot of stuff with Claude Cowork. He's got a bunch of videos of, like, where to start, here's what it does, here's what you can do. And also he makes his prompts and his lessons available publicly. Beware when you're on YouTube, a lot of these YouTube channels are really designed to get you to sign up for their paywalled course. That hasn't been the case I've seen with that one, and that one was really helpful as I was transitioning from Gemini more into Claude. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And he's even taking the stance now that he's been with Claude for so long, he's now looking at ChatGPT and saying, "Oh, my gosh it's improved so much." I've gotta dig back into this to dig more into it. Yeah. So he's, even he's going through those gyrations of- Jonathan Seitzer: Yeah ... Jimmy Lea: they're constantly improving. Jonathan Seitzer: Yep. Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Yep. That's awesome. For those of you who are listening thank you for joining us. John, thank you for joining. Thank you for sharing your nerd wisdom. We, we need people like you in the world, and in fact, we need all sorts of people. It's great that we're not all rubber stamp identical of each other. We are all different in this world, which makes us great. So thank you, John. I really appreciate it. Jonathan Seitzer: Thank you, all. It's been a pleasure. Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And for the rest of you who are listening, we we at the Institute, we are a coaching training company. We're a coaching training business. We're here to help you take those next steps, like we did with John when he bought a shop and didn't know what to do. We were able to step in. He hired us as his coach and his mentor. We even started coaching him prior to him buying the shop. So that's how valuable the, and important a coach can be to you and to your business to help take it to those next levels. So if you found this information valuable, if you found it interesting, understand this is the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more that we can do and that we can do together. Reach out. We'd love to have a conversation with you and to talk about your shop and your situation, 'cause yours is gonna be different than John's. Let's have a conversation to talk about what you can do to build the best business you can possibly build. My name is Jimmie Lee. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. So excited to be here with you today, and look forward to having our next conversation. Talk to you soon.