Ep 23 - Ownership Changes Everything | Caitlyn Cook

Ep 24 - The Experience Clients Remember | Jill Davis

Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/KYUha3Y1d5c] In this episode, Jerry and Carl talk with Jill Davis, Chief Strategy Officer at Cline, about what experience really means inside an AEC firm. Jill’s work sits at the intersection of marketing, strategy, brand, client relationships, and internal culture. She explains why a firm’s brand is not just what it says externally. It is also how people inside the firm work together, communicate, make decisions, and show up for clients. The conversation explores how Cline has thought about growth, leadership transition, rebranding, and the challenge of making something as abstract as “experience” feel tangible. Jill also shares why relationships and professional networks matter, especially when leaders face decisions they cannot make alone. In this episode, we cover: *  Jill’s path from marketing director to Chief Strategy Officer  *  Why Cline’s brand needed to catch up with who the firm had become  *  How internal culture affects external client experience  *  Why architects and designers may need to think more intentionally about the business relationship side of experience  *  How outside perspective can help a firm better understand itself  *  Why communication is central to strategy  *  Jill’s advice to build a strong professional network  Resource mentioned: *  SmartLess podcast  [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/smartless/id1521578868] Where to find Jill: *  Jill Davis on LinkedIn  [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillddavis/] Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gennaria/] & Carl Winstead [https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-winstead/] Learn More about TOKY [https://toky.com/] & Cline [https://www.clinedesignassoc.com/] Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com [hello@theintangiblebrand.com]

Ep 23 - Ownership Changes Everything | Caitlyn Cook

Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/B3Qj9qWcNDI] In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Caitlyn Cook [https://www.linkedin.com/in/caitlyn-cook-48260221/], Marketing and Employee Owner Experience Lead at ESS Companies, to explore how employee ownership reshapes culture, accountability, and brand. Caitlyn shares how her role bridges marketing and the employee experience, and how ESS has grown rapidly while maintaining a strong sense of ownership across its teams. We talk about what it takes to build connection across regions, why culture cannot be manufactured from the top down, and how employee ownership changes the way people show up to their work. The conversation also looks at the relationship between employee experience and client experience, why alignment between marketing, HR, and leadership is critical, and how firms can create a culture that actually holds as they scale. We cover:  • What changes when employees are also owners  • Why employee ownership shapes both culture and brand  • How employee experience influences client experience  • Why culture is built through connection, not messaging  • The importance of alignment across marketing, HR, and leadership  • How to maintain culture while scaling a growing organization Recommended resource:  • Radical Candor by Kim Scott [https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509] Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gennaria/] & Carl Winstead [https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-winstead/] Learn More about TOKY [https://toky.com/] & Cline [https://www.clinedesignassoc.com/] Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com [hello@theintangiblebrand.com]

Ep 22 - How to Turn Clients Into Superfans | Brittany Hodak

Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/acZRqwF42i8] In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Brittany Hodak [https://www.linkedin.com/in/brittanyhodak/] to explore what it really takes to turn satisfied customers into enthusiastic advocates. Drawing from a career that spans entertainment, fan engagement, marketing, and consumer behavior, Brittany brings a sharp perspective on why the brands that win are the ones that create experiences people want to talk about.  Brittany explains that customer experience is no longer judged only against direct competitors. Instead, clients compare every interaction to the best experiences they have anywhere else in their lives. That shift raises the bar for every firm, especially in professional services, where differentiation often comes down to how it feels to work with you.  The conversation also digs into why leaders often separate acquisition from retention, why that is a mistake, and why every person on a team is part of what Brittany calls the “experience department.” Her core idea is simple and powerful: superfans are the stakeholders so delighted by their experience that they become advocates, refer others, and help create more clients.  We cover:  • Why customer experience is the real competitive battlefield  • How brands move from commodity provider to category of one  • What leaders misunderstand about acquisition, retention, and advocacy  • Why every team member contributes to the client experience  • How exceptional experiences naturally drive referrals  • What it means to create superfans, not just satisfied customers Recommended resource:  • Creating Superfans by Brittany Hodak  [https://www.amazon.com/Creating-Superfans-Five-Step-Multiplying-Reputation/dp/1774580780] Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gennaria/] & Carl Winstead [https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-winstead/] Learn More about TOKY [https://toky.com/] & Cline [https://www.clinedesignassoc.com/] Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com [hello@theintangiblebrand.com]

Ep 21 - Why Your Brand Is Your Most Valuable IP Asset | Sharon Toerek

Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/nVz3-IxUwXQ] In this episode, Sharon Toerek joins The Intangible Brand to explore how intellectual property and brand strategy intersect. As an IP attorney working closely with creative firms, Sharon offers a perspective that reframes brand as a form of intellectual capital — one that is often misunderstood, undervalued, and underprotected. Key Takeaways Brand is often treated as secondary to “hard IP,” but Sharon challenges that assumption. Trademarks, identity, and reputation are all forms of intellectual property that can carry significant enterprise value.  Many firms define intellectual property too narrowly, which limits how they think about protecting and leveraging it. That narrow definition can lead to missed opportunities to create and capture value.  Sharon describes her work as having a “front row seat to creativity,” highlighting how creative output is not just expressive but economically impactful.  Brand protection is not just a legal safeguard. It is a strategic lever that allows firms to monetize their ideas, strengthen differentiation, and scale their impact.  There is often a disconnect between marketing and legal perspectives inside firms. Bridging that gap can help organizations better understand, protect, and grow their intangible assets. Recommended resource: * The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber  [https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280] * The Innovative Agency Podcast by Sharon Toerek  [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-agency/id1419747902] About the Guest Sharon Toerek [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharontoerek/] is an intellectual property and marketing law attorney and the founder of Legal & Creative [https://legalandcreative.com/]. She works with agencies and creative professionals to protect, enforce, and monetize their intellectual capital. She also hosts the Innovative Agency podcast and has served in leadership roles including past president of the American Advertising Federation Cleveland.  Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gennaria/] & Carl Winstead [https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-winstead/] Learn More about TOKY [https://toky.com/] & Cline [https://www.clinedesignassoc.com/] Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com [hello@theintangiblebrand.com]

Ep 20 - Luxury Is an Experience, Not a Price Tag | Neen James

Watch this episode on YouTube [https://youtu.be/5FYaNmScFj4] In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry is joined by Jill Davis, Chief Strategy Officer at Cline, for a conversation with Neen James, leadership strategist and author of Exceptional Experiences, to explore what it really takes to create moments that people remember. Neen shares how her work with leaders and luxury brands led her to a simple but powerful idea: luxury is not about price or exclusivity, it is about how people feel. We talk about the role of attention and intention in shaping both employee and client experience, and why organizations need to design these moments on purpose rather than leaving them to chance. The conversation also looks at how research can challenge assumptions about what clients value, why teams need to experience care internally before they can deliver it externally, and how leaders can build practical frameworks that make exceptional experiences repeatable. We cover:  • Why luxury is about experience, not price  • How attention and intention shape meaningful interactions  • What professional service firms can learn from luxury brands  • Why employee experience comes before client experience  • The role of research in understanding what people truly value  • How to design experiences that are consistent and repeatable Recommended resource:  • Exceptional Experiences by Neen James [https://www.audible.com/pd/Exceptional-Experiences-Audiobook/B0FR5F3NDF?source_code=GO1PP30DTRIAL54703142491H0&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1261256&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=16881025087&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9-PNBhDfARIsABHN6-1f_yRhiwEhdvhd2TX5tTJD8X4UpiP-WTYqpHiTI0nEv4_ISSGLgWsaAnvWEALw_wcB] • Attention Pays by Neen James [https://www.amazon.com/Attention-Pays-Profitability-Productivity-Accountability/dp/1119480256] Connect With Us Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gennaria/] & Carl Winstead [https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-winstead/] Learn More about TOKY [https://toky.com/] & Cline [https://www.clinedesignassoc.com/] Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com [hello@theintangiblebrand.com]