Jeff Gothelf: Becoming Forever Employable

Jeff Gothelf: Becoming Forever Employable

In this episode of The UX Consultants Lounge, Kyle sits down with Jeff Gothelf, consultant, speaker, and author of Lean UX, Sense & Respond, Lean vs. Agile vs. Design Thinking, Who Does What By How Much?, and Forever Employable. Jeff shares the story behind his leap into consulting, including launching an agency with Josh Seiden, the acquisition by Neo Innovation and later Pivotal, and the realization that the real asset he built was not the company itself but the reputation and ideas he developed through writing, speaking, and teaching. Kyle and Jeff discuss: * What it takes to build a sustainable consulting practice today * How partnerships can work without sacrificing independence * Why building a personal brand through content marketing matters * How generosity and knowledge sharing create long-term consulting opportunities * Why consultants should specialize and “plant their flag” * Jeff’s writing discipline  * Why owning your audience through email and newsletters still matters * Jeff’s philosophy on pricing and why “people value expensive things” Connect with Us: * Host: Kyle Soucy | Usable Interface [https://usableinterface.com/] | LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-soucy-a844b4/] * Guest: Jeff Gothelf | https://jeffgothelf.com [https://jeffgothelf.com] | Sense & Respond Learning [https://www.senseandrespond.co/] | LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gothelf/] Links and Resources Mentioned: * Continuous Learning [https://substack.com/@jeffgothelf] – Jeff’s Newsletter * Forever Employable [http://Forever%20Employable] by Jeff Gothelf * Lean UX [https://www.amazon.com/Lean-UX-Designing-Great-Products/dp/1491953608/] by Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden * Sense & Respond [https://www.amazon.com/Sense-Respond-Successful-Organizations-Continuously/dp/1633691888/] by Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden * Who Does What By How Much? [https://www.amazon.com/Who-Does-What-Much-Customer-Centric/dp/1732818444/] by Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden * Million Dollar Consulting [https://www.amazon.com/Million-Dollar-Consulting-Sixth-Professionals/dp/1264264917/] by Alan Weiss * Never Split the Difference [https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805/] by Chris Voss * Playing to Win [https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Expanded-Bonus-Articles/dp/B0F25SDYWV/] by Roger Martin * HBR Article: The Big Lie of Strategic [https://hbr.org/2014/01/the-big-lie-of-strategic-planning]  * Scaling Lean [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJm42qnCglk] by Jeff Gothelf at Mind the Product London 2016 * IA Conference [https://www.theiaconference.com/] (IAC26) - Use "uxlounge" discount code for $50 off registration Submit a question or story: Have a question or topic that you'd like us to cover in a future episode and/or want to share an anonymous consulting story? Submit your questions and stories [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-question-story]. Don't want to miss an episode? Be sure to sign up for the podcast newsletter [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-newsletter]. Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ux-consultants-lounge/id1755057303], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/5mFIdPhVgiy1UUe7Ffl4u5?si=eaed9e5112054c52], or your favorite podcast platform.  I can’t wait to have you back in the lounge for our next episode!

Amy Heymans - Realities of an Agency Acquisition: Letting Go and Starting Over

In the final episode of 2025, Kyle sits down with someone who has been woven into her UX journey for nearly two decades: Amy Heymans — founder of Mad*Pow, founder of Beneficent, and co-founder of the Dignified Futures Conference. Amy and Kyle first met in 2006, when Mad*Pow was just a few people in a small Portsmouth, NH office. Over the next 13 years, Amy grew the agency into a nationally respected 70+ person consultancy known for its exceptional design work and its influential events, including HXD, the Center for Health Experience Design, and the Financial Experience Design Conference. But this conversation goes far deeper than Mad*Pow’s rise. In 2019, Mad*Pow was acquired — the “dream scenario” for many agency founders. Amy shares openly what that experience was really like: the financial realities behind acquisitions, the emotional complexity of letting go of her company, the personal circumstances that shaped the outcome, and the surprising truth that the big exit doesn’t always look like the fantasy many consultants imagine. After leaving Mad*Pow, Amy stepped into a prestigious role as Chief Design Officer at UnitedHealthcare, navigating an enormous 400,000-person organization. She talks candidly about why the move felt right, why it ultimately didn’t align with her values, and how she knew it was time to walk away. Today, Amy is the founder of Beneficent, where she focuses on systems thinking, futures design, and complex problem-solving across health, finance, and the public sector. She also co-leads the Dignified Futures Conference, a gathering dedicated to reimagining systems for social impact — and she shares what inspired it and how designers, policymakers, and innovators can get involved. This episode covers: * How Mad*Pow really began * The messy truth behind scaling a design agency * The realities of selling a firm — financially, emotionally, and personally * Why Amy returned to corporate — and why she left * How she’s building Beneficent differently from Mad*Pow * How ADHD shows up in her work as both a challenge and superpower * The future of UX consulting in the age of AI and speculative foresight * Practical advice for landing big clients and navigating uncertainty This is one of the most candid conversations ever aired on The UX Consultants Lounge — a deep, honest look at success, identity, reinvention, and the realities of leading a UX career across decades of change. Connect with Us: * Host: Kyle Soucy | Usable Interface [https://www.usableinterface.com] |  Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-soucy-a844b4/]  * Guest: Amy Heymans | Beneficient Design [https://www.beneficent.design/] | Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/steveportigal/] - - - - - Links and Resources Mentioned: * Dignified Futures Conference: https://www.designfordignity.com/ [https://www.designfordignity.com/] Submit a question or story: Have a question or topic that you'd like us to cover in a future episode and/or want to share an anonymous consulting story? Submit your questions and stories [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-question-story]. Don't want to miss an episode? Be sure to sign up for the podcast newsletter [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-newsletter]. Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ux-consultants-lounge/id1755057303], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/5mFIdPhVgiy1UUe7Ffl4u5?si=eaed9e5112054c52], or your favorite podcast platform.  I can’t wait to have you back in the lounge for our next episode!

Lisa Dance - UX Still Needs a Public Awareness Campaign

In this episode of The UX Consultants Lounge, Kyle talks with Lisa Dance, a UX researcher, consultant, author, and community advocate based in Richmond, Virginia. Lisa is the founder of ServiceEase, creator of the UX Census RVA, author of Today Is the Perfect Day to Improve Customer Experiences, and a regular UX voice on Richmond’s business radio scene. Lisa brings a thoughtful, refreshing perspective on what it means to practice UX in a complex and shifting industry. She has built her career around improving hard to use systems, elevating customer experience, and helping her local community understand what UX actually is and why it matters. What you will learn in this episode * How ServiceEase came to life: Lisa describes starting her consultancy in 2011 and moving between in-house and freelance work, highlighting flexibility as the key to her career path. * Improving customer experiences through storytelling: Lisa shares that her book grew out of everyday frustrations with overly complicated tasks and uses illustrated stories to show how widespread bad customer experiences are, especially when technology makes them worse. * Sharing UX with the broader public: Through UX Happens in RVA, Lisa explains UX to business audiences in plain language. She talks about pitching the segment and using news stories, including the Amazon FTC case, to help non-tech listeners understand UX. * The future of UX and the rise of AI: Kyle and Lisa explore concerns about AI and how companies use it to hide deeper problems. They also reflect on industry layoffs, declining focus on user needs in big tech, and the continued importance of UX in smaller mission driven organizations. * Marketing yourself as a consultant: Lisa reflects on the difficulty of staying visible as a shy solopreneur and shares a key insight: the real competition is not other consultants, but companies that take no action at all. * Specializing or staying generalist: Lisa and Kyle discuss how to approach specialization, what it means to be T shaped, and why consultants need to help clients see that UX skills translate across industries. Connect with Us: * Host: Kyle Soucy | Usable Interface [https://www.usableinterface.com] |  Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-soucy-a844b4/] * Guest: Lisa Dance | ServiceEase [https://serviceease.net/] | Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/steveportigal/] - - - - - Links and Resources Mentioned: * Today is the Perfect Day to Improve Customer Experiences! [https://serviceease.net/book] by Lisa Dance * UX Happens in RVA [https://uxcensusrva.org/#ux-happens-in-rva] * UX Census (RVA) [https://uxcensusrva.org/]  * The Product Picnic [https://productpicnic.beehiiv.com/] (Pavel Samsonov’s Newsletter) Submit a question or story: Have a question or topic that you'd like us to cover in a future episode and/or want to share an anonymous consulting story? Submit your questions and stories [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-question-story]. Don't want to miss an episode? Be sure to sign up for the podcast newsletter [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-newsletter]. Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ux-consultants-lounge/id1755057303], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/5mFIdPhVgiy1UUe7Ffl4u5?si=eaed9e5112054c52], or your favorite podcast platform.  I can’t wait to have you back in the lounge for our next episode!

Steve Portigal and Justin Dauer - Solo, Together: How Two Independent UX Consultants are Collaborating

In this episode, Kyle sits down with two UX industry veterans who are trying something new: Steve Portigal and Justin Dauer have announced a unique collaboration that allows them to work together while maintaining their independent practices. Steve Portigal has been running Portigal Consulting for over two decades, is the author of "Interviewing Users" and "Doorbells, Danger and Dead Batteries," and is a familiar face at conferences worldwide. Justin Dauer is the founder of Anomali by Design, author of "Creative Culture" and "In Fulfillment," and focuses on design leadership and building healthy creative environments. We explore what their "chocolate and peanut butter" collaboration actually looks like, why they chose collaboration over partnership, and how they're combining Steve's research expertise with Justin's design leadership experience.  Steve opens up about social comparison being the hardest part of consulting for him, while Justin shares insights about the importance of controlling your own destiny as a consultant.  Other topics discussed: * The evolution of their collaboration and their ideal joint projects * The current consulting slowdown * Business development strategies: How to be found by clients vs. finding them * The reality of being "too well-known": When fame can actually hurt your hirability * Book publishing experiences: Traditional vs. self-publishing and how writing supports consulting work Connect with Us: * Host: Kyle Soucy | Usable Interface [https://www.usableinterface.com] |  Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-soucy-a844b4/] * Guest: Steve Portigal | Portigal Consulting [https://portigal.com/] | Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/steveportigal/] * Guest: Justin Dauer | Anomali By Design [https://anomalibydesign.com/] | Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/pseudoroom/] * Their Collaboration: https://anomalibydesign.com/steve+justin/ [https://anomalibydesign.com/steve+justin/] - - - - - Links and Resources Mentioned: * Interviewing Users: How to Uncover Compelling Insights (2nd edition) [https://portigal.com/Books/interviewing-users-2/] by Steve Portigal * Doorbells, Danger, and Dead Batteries: User Research War Stories [https://portigal.com/Books/user-research-war-stories/] by Steve Portigal * In Fulfillment: The Designer's Journey [http://www.in-fulfillment.com/] by Justin Dauer * Creative Culture: Human-Centered Interaction, Design, & Inspiration [http://www.the-culturebook.com/] by Justin Dauer * Dollars to Donuts - Steve’s podcast where he talks with the people who lead user research in their organizations: https://portigal.com/podcast/ [https://portigal.com/podcast/] * Practical Design Leadership - Justin’s podcast with Jaan Orvet: https://designleadership.transistor.fm/ [https://designleadership.transistor.fm/] Submit a question or story: Have a question or topic that you'd like us to cover in a future episode and/or want to share an anonymous consulting story? Submit your questions and stories [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-question-story]. Don't want to miss an episode? Be sure to sign up for the podcast newsletter [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-newsletter]. Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ux-consultants-lounge/id1755057303], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/5mFIdPhVgiy1UUe7Ffl4u5?si=eaed9e5112054c52], or your favorite podcast platform.  I can’t wait to have you back in the lounge for our next episode!

Susan Mercer - A Former Client's Perspective

In this episode of The UX Consultants Lounge, Kyle welcomes her first-ever client into the Lounge: Susan Mercer. With over 30 years of experience in digital technology—including roles in UI design, product management, and UX research leadership—Susan brings a rare and candid perspective on what it’s really like to hire and work with UX consultants. Kyle and Susan share their history of collaborating on two major projects, including one of the largest diary studies Kyle has ever led. From there, they dive into what clients think during the procurement process, how proposals get evaluated, what builds (or erodes) trust, and what makes a consultant stand out. Now that Susan is stepping into UX consulting herself, this conversation also touches on how her years on the client side are shaping how she approaches her new business, Perspecta Consulting. Whether you’re a consultant trying to better understand your clients or a UX leader considering bringing in outside help this episode is packed with honest insights and practical advice. Topics include: * What really goes on behind the scenes when a client is scoping and approving a UX research project * The qualities that make a consultant stand out during the selection process * Why trust and communication are everything and what erodes them fast * What clients wish consultants knew about proposals and pricing * How to set consultants up for success (and what happens when you don’t) * Susan’s transition from research director to independent consultant Notable Quotes * "I’m looking for a thought partner—not a salesperson. Someone who’s going to help me solve a problem, not just sell me their services… If you tell me everything you can do before even asking what I need, it feels like a car salesman pitch. That’s a turnoff." * "I like hearing a lot of questions from consultants in that first call. Curiosity is a core skill for a researcher, and I want to see it right away." * "If the methodology and reasoning are weak but the price is high, that’s when I start to get skeptical." * "Consistent communication is key. I’d rather have a little too much communication than be left wondering what’s going on." * “I want the consultant to make me and my team look good.” Connect with Us: * Host: Kyle Soucy | Usable Interface [https://www.usableinterface.com] |  Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-soucy-a844b4/]  * Guest: Susan Mercer | Perspecta Consulting [https://perspecta-consulting.com/]  & Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanamercer/]  - - - - - Links and Resources Mentioned: * Kyle’s case study for the Viator diary study project [https://usableinterface.com/case-studies/viator/]  * Anna Kop [https://www.linkedin.com/in/annakop/] (The UX research subcontractor Kyle hired for the Viator project) Submit a question or story: Have a question or topic that you'd like us to cover in a future episode and/or want to share an anonymous consulting story? Submit your questions and stories [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-question-story]. Don't want to miss an episode? Be sure to sign up for the podcast newsletter [https://bit.ly/uxconsultants-newsletter]. Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ux-consultants-lounge/id1755057303], Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/5mFIdPhVgiy1UUe7Ffl4u5?si=eaed9e5112054c52], or your favorite podcast platform.  I can’t wait to have you back in the lounge for our next episode!