The Waggle Room - Ep18 - Mark "Moose" McGrath - Beyond OODA loop Mythology

The Waggle Room - Ep18 - Mark "Moose" McGrath - Beyond OODA loop Mythology

Mark 'Moose' McGrath has dedicated his career to preserving and building upon John Boyd's authentic work, rescuing it from the simplified 'circle diagrams' pushed by those who may not know it's true meaning. In this episode, we explore the real depth of Boyd's thinking, from Destruction and Creation to the OODA 'loop' sketch, and how it applies to modern challenges including AI adoption. ## Key Topics - Why Boyd's work is widely misunderstood and how to access the authentic material - The critical importance of 'Destruction and Creation' as Boyd's foundation - How the Marines adopted Boyd's thinking whilst other services didn't - Orientation as the centre of gravity in decision-making - People, Ideas, Things - and why we always fixate on the wrong one - How AI can enhance orientation when applied correctly - The guerrilla information war we're all participating in ## Where to Listen - Website: https://thewaggleroom.com [https://thewaggleroom.com] - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom [https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom] - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom [https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom] - Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102 [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102] - Substack: https://substack.com/@mickbrian [https://substack.com/@mickbrian] ## Guest Info Mark (Moose) McGrath is Strategic Orientation Advisory at AGLX, former Marine Corps officer, and co-host of the 'No Way Out' podcast. He has spent years in Boyd's archives preserving the authenticity of his work. - LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 [http://linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1] - Website: aglx.com [http://aglx.com] - Substack: thewhirl.substack.com [http://thewhirl.substack.com] - Email: mark.mcgrath@aglx.com [mark.mcgrath@aglx.com]

The Waggle Room - Ep17 - Steve Hearsum - Why We Keep Falling for Silver Bullets

Steve Hearsum joins Mick to explore why organisations and leaders repeatedly reach for silver bullet solutions, despite knowing they don't work. Steve unpacks the powerful forces of shame, anxiety, and what he calls 'functional collusion' that drive our collective search for certainty in an uncertain world. This conversation reveals the uncomfortable truths about why change fails and what practices we actually need to develop instead. ## Key Topics • Why we collude in seeking silver bullet solutions despite knowing they don't work • The role of shame and anxiety in organisational decision-making • Functional collusion and unconscious patterns that maintain dysfunctional systems • The difference between learning for certificates versus learning for practice • Power dynamics and complicity in organisational hierarchies • Why embracing ambivalence and absurdity might be the signal we're missing ## Where to Listen - Website: https://thewaggleroom.com [https://thewaggleroom.com] - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom [https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom] - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom [https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom] - Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102 [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102] - Substack: https://substack.com/@mickbrian [https://substack.com/@mickbrian] ## Guest Info Steve Hearsum is a consultant, executive coach, supervisor and author specialising in organisational change and leadership practices. His book explores why silver bullet solutions persist. - LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/stevehearsum [http://linkedin.com/in/stevehearsum] - Company: edgeandstretch.com [http://edgeandstretch.com] - Personal: hearsum.com [http://hearsum.com]

The Waggle Room - Ep16 - Brian "Ponch" Rivera - There Is No Way Out

Former Navy captain and fighter pilot Brian 'Ponch' Rivera delves deep into John Boyd's OODA loop, revealing how it connects to complex adaptive systems, the free energy principle, and organisational performance. From the archives of Boyd's work to practical applications in modern teams, Ponch shares insights on flow states, AI's limitations, and why most consultancies miss the true power of distributed intelligence. ## Key Topics - The true OODA loop vs the linear "communist" version most people know - How fighter aviation principles translate to organisational learning - Connections between Boyd's work and the free energy principle - Why orientation is the key to adaptation and novelty - The flow system approach to team performance - AI through the lens of natural vs artificial intelligence - Sacred geometry, UAPs, and exploring weak signals ## Where to Listen - Website: https://thewaggleroom.com [https://thewaggleroom.com] - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom [https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom] - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom [https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom] - Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102 [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102] - Substack: https://substack.com/@mickbrian [https://substack.com/@mickbrian] ## Guest Info Brian 'Ponch' Rivera is co-creator and host of No Way Out podcast, CEO of AGLX, and co-author of the Flow System books. A retired US Navy captain with 28 years of service, he flew F-14s and worked in intelligence before becoming a leading voice on John Boyd's work and complex adaptive systems. - Website: https://aglx.com [https://aglx.com] - Substack: https://worldofreorientation.substack.com [https://worldofreorientation.substack.com] - X/Twitter: https://x.com/nowayoutcast [https://x.com/nowayoutcast] - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera/]

The Waggle Room - Ep 15 - Nick de Voil - Hidden Channels in Organisations

Nick De Voil brings a unique perspective to business analysis, combining his background in Russian, computer science, and human-centred design. This conversation explores the hidden communication channels in organisations - what Nick calls the 'service tunnels' alongside the main channels. We discuss why consensus is often an illusion, the power of metaphor in understanding complex systems, and why the explicit signal isn't always the real message. ## Key Topics - The evolution from systems analysis to modern business analysis - Why organisations struggle with user-centred design despite decades of knowledge - The Channel Tunnel metaphor: main tunnels vs service tunnels in organisational communication - Group construct analysis and George Kelly's personal construct psychology - The role of metaphor and storytelling in business analysis - AI's impact on business analysis - productivity vs thinking - Marshall McLuhan's "the medium is the message" and organisational signals ## Where to Listen - Website: https://thewaggleroom.com [https://thewaggleroom.com] - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom [https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom] - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom [https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom] - Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102 [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102] - Substack: https://substack.com/@mickbrian [https://substack.com/@mickbrian] ## Guest Info Nick De Voil is a business analyst, trainer, and writer who specialises in user experience, service design, and human-centred approaches to organisational change. He's contributed 20 articles to BA Digest magazine and teaches courses in user experience, business analysis, and service design. Connect with Nick on LinkedIn or read his articles at blackmetric.co.uk [http://blackmetric.co.uk]. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickdevoil/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickdevoil/] BA Digest (the full GCA article series): https://www.blackmetric.com/ba-digest/ [https://www.blackmetric.com/ba-digest/] User Experience Foundations (BCS): https://shop.bcs.org/store/221/detail/WorkGroupByIsbn/9781780173498 [https://shop.bcs.org/store/221/detail/WorkGroupByIsbn/9781780173498]

The Waggle Room - Ep 14 - Delia McCabe - Brain Health: The Missing Leadership Link

Neuroscientist Dr Delia McCabe challenges the pseudoscience plaguing organisations and reveals the real impact of nutrition, technology, and stress on our brains. From the developing brain's vulnerability to social media to why leaders overlook the most basic question about their teams' cognitive capacity, this episode is a wake-up call. Delia explains modern burnout beyond work-related stress and why humans simply aren't coping with exponential change. ## Key Topics • The connection between nutrition deficiencies and cognitive performance in children and adults • Why popular "neuroscience" frameworks in organisations are often pseudoscience • Modern burnout: how constant information overload exhausts our brains beyond work stress • The developing brain crisis: how screen time is reducing cognitive behavioural reserve • Why the illusory truth effect makes bad ideas stick in organisations • The role of neural friction in building critical thinking capabilities ## Where to Listen - Website: https://thewaggleroom.com [https://thewaggleroom.com] - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom [https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaggleRoom] - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom [https://open.spotify.com/show/TheWaggleRoom] - Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102 [https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-waggle-room/id1879089102] - Substack: https://substack.com/@mickbrian [https://substack.com/@mickbrian] ## Guest Info Dr Delia McCabe is a neuroscientist, author, and founder of Lighter Brighter You. She works with organisations and individuals to apply evidence-based neuroscience to leadership, learning, and well-being. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-delia-mccabe/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-delia-mccabe/] - Substack: https://deliamccabe.substack.com/ [https://deliamccabe.substack.com/] - Website: https://lighterbrighteryou.life [https://lighterbrighteryou.life]