From Point-in-Time Testing to Continuous Certification: Insights with NBCRNA’s Tim Muckle

From Point-in-Time Testing to Continuous Certification: Insights with NBCRNA’s Tim Muckle

In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP [https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabelle-gonthier-phd-ice-ccp-4556a210/], speaks with Tim Muckle, PhD, ICE-CCP, Chief Assessment Officer at the National Board of Certification and Recertification for Nurse Anesthetists, about longitudinal assessment and the future of continued professional certification. Drawing on his background in mathematics, psychometrics, healthcare certification, and assessment leadership, Tim explains how NBCRNA is rethinking recertification in a way that supports patient safety, lifelong learning, and trust with certificants. As certification programs look for models that are more continuous, flexible, and relevant, Tim shares how NBCRNA moved from a traditional point-in-time assessment toward the MAC Check, a longitudinal assessment model built around smaller quarterly question sets, immediate feedback, spaced repetition, and ongoing evidence of competence. The conversation also explores stakeholder engagement, change management, the balance between rigor and accessibility, how AI may influence clinical practice and assessment, and why mission alignment is essential when changing maintenance of certification programs. What you’ll learn: * How longitudinal assessment differs from traditional point-in-time testing * Why continuous certification can better support lifelong learning and professional growth * How smaller, periodic question sets can reduce burden while still accumulating evidence of competence * What immediate feedback, spaced repetition, and related retake questions add to the assessment experience * Why psychometric defensibility alone is not enough to build stakeholder trust * How NBCRNA used research, communication, and certificant feedback to support program change * Where AI, evolving clinical practice, and expectations for relevance may shape future certification models * Why assessment leaders should start with mission before redesigning recertification or maintenance programs Who should listen: * Certification and recertification leaders exploring longitudinal assessment * Assessment and credentialing professionals responsible for maintenance of certification programs * Psychometricians and test developers balancing rigor, feedback, and learner support * Licensure and healthcare certification organizations focused on public safety and continuing competence * Program owners managing stakeholder trust, communication, and change * Organizations rethinking how certification can better support lifelong professional learning About the guest:Dr. Muckle is the Chief Assessment Officer with the National Board of Certification and Recertification for Nurse Anesthetists (NBCRNA), based in Chicago, IL. In his career, Dr. Muckle has been responsible for overseeing the test development and psychometric quality of a variety of credentialing examinations. His work has included the development of innovative assessment formats (such as longitudinal assessment), consultation and steering of testing policy and strategy, and spearheading an assessment-focused research agenda. He brings 25+ years of experience in certification, test development and research to his present role. Tim has published numerous articles in testing-related scientific journals and publications and has been a regular presenter at meetings of the Association of Test Publishers (ATP), and the Institute for Credentialing Excellence, among others. Among his skills and qualifications are: strategic thinking and planning, organizational leadership, statistical analysis, research and publications, team building, innovative assessment formats, and volunteer service to the credentialing industry.

What AI Changes About Assessment Evidence: Insights with Khan Academy’s Kristen DiCerbo

In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP [https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabelle-gonthier-phd-ice-ccp-4556a210/], speaks with Dr. Kristen DiCerbo, Chief Learning Officer at Khan Academy and one of Time’s top 100 people influencing the future of AI in 2024. Drawing on her background in school psychology, learning science, edtech, and assessment design, Kristen explores how AI is changing what assessment professionals can observe, interpret, and use as evidence of what learners know and can do. As assessment programs look for more authentic ways to measure real-world skills, Kristen explains why better tasks are only part of the equation. The conversation covers task models versus evidence models, the importance of closing the inferential distance, lessons from simulation and game-based assessment, Khan Academy’s “Explain Your Thinking” work, and why new measurement approaches should often begin in lower-stakes formative environments before moving into higher-stakes use. What you’ll learn: * How AI can surface evidence of learner thinking beyond a single answer * Why valid assessment starts with separating tasks from evidence * What “closing the inferential distance” means for assessment design * Where simulations, games, and open-ended tasks can create noise instead of signal * Why new AI measurement approaches should start in low-stakes settings * How to balance innovation with structure, validity, and defensibility * What multimodal AI and on-device models could mean for future assessment Who should listen: * Assessment and credentialing leaders exploring AI * Psychometricians and test developers * Certification and licensure program owners * Edtech and learning science teams * Product leaders building digital assessment experiences * Educators working with formative or performance-based assessment About the guest:Dr. Kristen DiCerbo [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristen-eignor-dicerbo-414138b/?locale=%20] is the Chief Learning Officer at Khan Academy, where she leads the content, assessment, design, product management, and community support teams. Time magazine named her one of the top 100 people influencing the future of AI in 2024. Dr. DiCerbo’s career has focused on embedding insights from education research into digital learning experiences. Prior to her role at Khan Academy, she was Vice-President of Learning Research and Design at Pearson, served as a research scientist supporting the Cisco Networking Academies, and worked as a school psychologist. Kristen has a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology from Arizona State University.

Test Security, Agentic AI, and the Future of Assessment with Paul Muir from risr/

As assessment programs confront increasingly sophisticated fraud and rapid advances in Artificial Intelligence, protecting trust and integrity has never been more complex. In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP [https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabelle-gonthier-phd-ice-ccp-4556a210/] sits down with Paul Muir, Chief Customer Officer at risr/ and Board Chair of the Association of Test Publishers, for a candid conversation recorded live at the ATP Innovations in Testing Conference. With more than 25 years in the assessment industry, Paul shares a front‑line perspective on test security, the rise of agentic AI, and the evolving role of industry collaboration. Together, they explore how assessment leaders can move from reactive security measures to more strategic, forward‑looking approaches, and how ATP is helping guide the community through a period of rapid technological change. What you’ll learn: * How the test security threat landscape is evolving, including organized cheating, content harvesting, and increasingly sophisticated fraud techniques * Where assessment and credentialing programs remain most vulnerable today, and why keeping pace with fraud is such a challenge * What agentic AI means in the context of assessment, and how more autonomous systems introduce both new risks and new opportunities * How AI can be used proactively to strengthen test security rather than simply reacting to emerging threats * How Paul’s dual perspective as a technology leader and ATP Board Chair informs his view of where assessment is headed * The role ATP plays in helping the industry navigate innovation, security, and trust during periods of rapid change * Why collaboration and community engagement are critical to protecting the integrity of assessment programs Who should listen: * Assessment and credentialing leaders responsible for program integrity * Test security, compliance, and risk professionals * Education and assessment technology providers * Organizations exploring or deploying AI in assessment programs * ATP members and professionals engaged in the broader assessment community About the guest:Paul Muir [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulbmuir/] serves as the Chief Customer Officer at risr/ and currently holds the position of Board Chair for the Association of Test Publishers (ATP). With over 25 years of experience in the assessment sector, Paul is an experienced leader and active volunteer, specialising in areas such as test security, assessment reform, technology-enabled assessment, and Artificial Intelligence. Since joining risr/ in 2024, Paul, who is based in the UK, has been responsible for driving thought leadership, developing strategic partnerships, and fostering engagement across the industry, community, and customer base.

Serious Games and Authentic Assessment with Jenn McNamara from BreakAway Games

In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD,- ICE CCP, [https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabelle-gonthier-phd-ice-ccp-4556a210/] Chief Assessment Officer at PSI and ETS, sits down with Jenn McNamara, Vice President of Strategic Products and Partnerships at BreakAway Games. Recorded live at the ATP Conference, the conversation explores how serious games are being used to support authentic, performance based assessment across defense, healthcare, and professional credentialing programs. Jenn shares how game based environments can capture real world decision making, reduce traditional test effects, and provide richer evidence of readiness than item based assessments alone. The discussion also covers the role of AI in game design and assessment delivery, the importance of accessibility by design, and what emerging innovation trends signal about the future of assessment. What you’ll learn: * How “serious games” are defined and how they differ from surface level gamification * Why authenticity, particularly cognitive fidelity, matters more than visual realism in assessment design * What immersive, strategy based environments can reveal about real world decision making, stress, and readiness * How independent research and validation help make game based assessment credible and defensible in high stakes contexts * Where serious games are most effective in assessment programs, and where assessment leaders should be cautious * How AI is influencing the future of immersive assessment, including adaptive scenarios and content variation, while maintaining rigor and fairness Who should listen: * Credentialing and certification leaders exploring authentic or performance based assessment approaches * Assessment professionals seeking new ways to evaluate decision making, judgment, and applied skills * Psychometricians and assessment designers interested in emerging item types and validation models * Program owners responsible for accessibility, candidate experience, and exam integrity * Testing and education technology professionals tracking the role of serious games and AI in assessment About the Guest: Jenn McNamara [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennmcnamara/] is Vice President of Strategic Products and Partnerships at BreakAway Games, focused on delivering immersive solutions for education, assessment, and performance support. With over 25 years of experience in cognitive psychology, serious games, and AI-driven systems research and development, Jenn is a recognized leader and trusted partner raising the standard of advanced, technology-driven learning and assessment for defense, healthcare, and corporate sectors. Jenn’s pioneering design and development approaches set the accessibility standard for serious games. She speaks frequently at conferences including I/ITSEC, ATP Innovations in Testing, Serious Play, and Games for Change. In volunteer support of the industry, Jenn also directs the nonprofit Serious Games Showcase & Challenge and serves in leadership roles with the NDIA Human Systems Conference, Serious Play Conference, and ATP Innovations in Testing Conference.

Libby Rodney from The Harris Poll on the 2026 ETS Human Progress Report: Adaptability, Credentials & Opportunity

This is our 50th episode of Tried & Tested and we’re marking the milestone with a conversation about what may be one of the biggest questions facing the workforce right now: how do people prove what they can do as change accelerates? Host Isabelle Gonthier [https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabelle-gonthier-phd-ice-ccp-4556a210/] welcomes Libby Rodney, Chief Strategy Officer at The Harris Poll, to unpack what “proof” looks like in today’s disrupted environment and why credentials are increasingly tied to confidence, mobility, and opportunity. Drawing on The Harris Poll [https://theharrispoll.com/] research behind the 2026 ETS Human Progress Report [https://www.ets.org/human-progress-report.html?__hstc=201084081.5e19a2a51e3a6dbe5dcf48d74f2f5d25.1754331657566.1777471034777.1777484651389.363&__hssc=201084081.1.1777484651389&__hsfp=96da213cf9f3fdc91e0b6fd48008d606], Libby Rodney explains how leaders can move beyond noisy narratives and toward signals that actually matter, especially as workers face rapid disruption, shifting skill demands, and rising pressure to demonstrate adaptability. Together, they explore the widening gap between interest and access, the need for clearer employer signals about what’s valued, and why the future of credentialing depends on trust, alignment, and measurable evidence, not just storytelling. What you’ll learn: * What “proof of skills” really means in a labor market shaped by constant disruption and why workers are seeking evidence they can carry across roles and industries. * How the 2026 ETS Human Progress Report was designed, including the role of benchmarking and how the focus evolved toward adaptability as a cornerstone theme. * Why credentials are rising in importance right now, including the connection between workplace anxiety and the need for verifiable evidence of capability. * What’s driving the demand vs. access gap (high interest, lower access), and the practical barriers that keep people from pursuing credentials. * Why employer clarity is the unlock: what workers need employers to specify about which credentials matter, and why ambiguity discourages investment before cost even enters the picture. * How AI is reshaping credential expectations, including why many workers want formal certification to verify AI skills, and why “using AI” isn’t the same as using it well. Who should listen: * Credentialing, certification, and assessment leaders designing programs that must earn trust and prove value. * Employers, HR, and workforce strategy teams deciding which skills and credentials matter most. * Education and training leaders working to close the gap between learning pathways and real-world opportunity. About the guest: A scenario planner, cultural strategist, and navigation expert, Libby Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/libbyrodney/] serves as Chief Strategy Officer at The Harris Poll where she helps Fortune 100 executives decode uncertainty and navigate transformational change.  Creator of “The Next Big Think!” substack and co-host of “So Get This” podcast (new on Bubbler/iHeart Radio), her cultural intelligence framework has predicted major shifts including “quiet vacationing,” FOBO (fear of being obsolete), and the “lottery over logic economy.”  Libby has commanded global stages at Davos, Cannes Lions, SXSW, Forbes CMO summit, Ad Week, and CES, establishing her as the go-to cultural decoder for organizations seeking to see around corners.  Libby’s insights have been featured across major media outlets where she has become known for revealing not just what’s trending, but what companies must pay attention to in the next 18 months.