In Conversation with the Restorative Justice Institute of Oklahoma - With Xavier Graves and Traci Gardner

Season 2 Finale: An End to a Beginning

In this final (for now) episode of Unboxing Social and Emotional Learning, we look back on the podcast project as a whole—sharing favorite moments, discussing recurrent themes, and imagining what may come next for the pod and for SEL. Listeners who have been with us since Season 1, Episode 1 may recall some of the quotes and moments we return to, and those listening for the first time may wish to go back and start from the beginning! As we explain with the episode title, the end to one thing is often the beginning to another. “SEL,” as we have expressed time and time again across our conversations, should not be seen as the be-all-end-all for learning to be social and emotional in a complicated world.  Participants: Melvin Chan, BSc, MA, York University Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: * McMain, E. M., Chan, M. C.-H., Edwards-Schuth, B., Molyneux, T., El Sabbagh, J., Gupta, A., & Engelbrecht, A. (Online First). Podcasting as a critical methodology: Reflections from a social and emotional learning podcast project. Cultural Studies ←→ Critical Methodologies. https://doi.org/10.1177/15327086251395813 [https://doi.org/10.1177/15327086251395813] * Montagne, A., Rousseau, C., & Gómez-Carrillo, A. (2026). The fine line between the cure and the illness: the risks of prescriptive emotionality and sociality for youth mental health. The Lancet Regional Health–Americas, 53. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(25)00321-7/fulltext [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(25)00321-7/fulltext] * Clark, C. T., Chrisman, A., & Lewis, S. G. (2021). Using picturebooks to teach with and against social and emotional learning. Language Arts, 98(5), 246-259. https://doi.org/10.58680/la202131212 [https://doi.org/10.58680/la202131212] * The Master’s Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master’s House (Audre Lorde): https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308596/the-masters-tools-will-never-dismantle-the-masters-house-by-lorde-audre/9780241339725 [https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308596/the-masters-tools-will-never-dismantle-the-masters-house-by-lorde-audre/9780241339725] * Safir, S., Bagsik, M., Jaber, S., & Watson, C. M. (2026). Pedagogies of voice: Street data and the path to student agency. Corwin. https://pedagogiesofvoice.com/ [https://pedagogiesofvoice.com/]

Embodying Empathy: Performing Arts and SEL - With Sharmila Miller

In this conversation with Sharmila Miller, we learn about her experience as a drama teacher and anti-racism facilitator within education and performing arts. Sharmila shares how the process of teaching drama inherently involves engaging students with empathy, perspective taking, conflict resolution and problem solving skills. She also explains how she uses performing arts techniques for anti-racist education and facilitation. Through this fun and engaging dialogue, we are challenged to rethink formalized SEL education and reflect on the myriad ways sociality and emotionality are already embedded in the learning process. Participants: Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Sharmila Miller, Drama & English Teacher, Maple Ridge, British Columbia (SD 42) Facilitator: Adishi Gupta Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: * Interdisciplinary Arts Academy at School District 42, British Columbia: https://www.sd42.ca/academy/interdisciplinary-arts/ * Dr. Sarah Fine, “Lessons in Powerful Learning from the Fringes”: https://www.humanrestorationproject.org/podcasts/lessons-in-powerful-learning-from-the-fringes-w-dr-sarah-fine * Augusto Boal and Theatre of the Oppressed: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Augusto-Boal * Different levels of racism framework: https://www.raceforward.org/what-racial-equity-0

Interconnected: Bringing an Ecological Perspective to SEL - With Drs. Shannon Wanless and Renee Owen

In this episode of Unboxing SEL, Dr. Shannon Wanless and Dr. Renee Owen share insights from their article Evolving Transformative SEL with an Ecological Perspective. They trace their unique paths into SEL and explain why moving beyond individualistic approaches is essential for tackling inequity and climate injustice. Emphasizing interconnectedness, collective action, and care for the natural world, they highlight ways educators can weave this perspective into everyday practice without adding to their workload. It’s a warm, thought-provoking conversation that invites listeners to reimagine SEL as a shared journey toward personal, community, and environmental well-being. Participants: Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia Renee Owen, EdD, Southern Oregon University Shannon Wanless, PhD, University of PIttsburgh Facilitator: Tonje Molyneux Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: * “Evolving Transformative Social and Emotional Learning with an Ecological Perspective” (Renee Owen, Meena Srinivasan, and Shannon Wanless): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2773233925000506 [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2773233925000506] * Oregon Department of Education SEL site (dispositions): https://www.oregon.gov/ode/educator-resources/standards/sel/pages/default.aspx [https://www.oregon.gov/ode/educator-resources/standards/sel/pages/default.aspx]  * Transformative Educational Leadership: https://www.teleadership.org/ [https://www.teleadership.org/] * Lisa Miller and The Spiritual Child: https://www.lisamillerphd.com/ [https://www.lisamillerphd.com/] * Rainbow Community School: https://rainbowcommunityschool.org/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21848063262&gbraid=0AAAAADRjSUXbLK8qKqepoA3EwtRXtbaTO&gclid=Cj0KCQjwndHEBhDVARIsAGh0g3Aa6JtWceMlTCe0UYSR0NPooEmXoLcgLziV_QnBScv9WxyyCe1DKIEaAjMfEALw_wcB [https://rainbowcommunityschool.org/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21848063262&gbraid=0AAAAADRjSUXbLK8qKqepoA3EwtRXtbaTO&gclid=Cj0KCQjwndHEBhDVARIsAGh0g3Aa6JtWceMlTCe0UYSR0NPooEmXoLcgLziV_QnBScv9WxyyCe1DKIEaAjMfEALw_wcB] * SEE curriculum: https://seelearning.emory.edu/ [https://seelearning.emory.edu/] * Sherri Mitchell and Sacred Instructions: https://www.sacredinstructions.life/ [https://www.sacredinstructions.life/] * Robin Wall Kimmerer and Indigenous Wisdom: https://www.robinwallkimmerer.com/ [https://www.robinwallkimmerer.com/] * David Sobel and The Holistic Educational Review: https://www.antioch.edu/faculty/david-sobel/ [https://www.antioch.edu/faculty/david-sobel/]  * Teach for Climate Justice: A Vision for Transforming Education (Tom Roderick): https://hep.gse.harvard.edu/9781682538074/teach-for-climate-justice/ [https://hep.gse.harvard.edu/9781682538074/teach-for-climate-justice/] * Restoring the Kinship Worldview (Wahinkpe Topa/Four Arrows and Darcia Narvaez): https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/690771/restoring-the-kinship-worldview-by-wahinkpe-topa-four-arrows/ [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/690771/restoring-the-kinship-worldview-by-wahinkpe-topa-four-arrows/] * Richie Davidson and the Upaya Zen Center: https://www.upaya.org/about/ [https://www.upaya.org/about/] * The Center for Holistic Education: https://centerforholisticeducation.org/ [https://centerforholisticeducation.org/]

In Conversation with the Restorative Justice Institute of Oklahoma - With Xavier Graves and Traci Gardner

Unboxing SEL dives into conversation with Traci Gardner and Xavier Graves from the Restorative Justice Institute of Oklahoma (RJIOK) to learn about their work and vision toward promoting more just and equitable futures. Restorative justice, says Xavier, “is not the what, it’s the how we get there.” We discuss the overlaps between SEL and restorative justice, ending with the bittersweet hope that change can come if we are willing to reenvision our systems. From Traci: “I do believe human relationships can be healed and restored, given enough time and space. And I also believe we live in a society that does not make that time or space available to us. So just living in the both/and of that.”  Participants: Traci Gardner, Nurturer of Restorative Futures, RJIOK Xavier Graves, E.D., RJIOK Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Facilitator: Jinan El Sabbagh Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: * Internal Family Systems: https://ifs-institute.com/ [https://ifs-institute.com/] * Cheryl Step, Creating Resilience: https://creatingresilience.org/index.html [https://creatingresilience.org/index.html] * Bettina Love, Punished for Dreaming: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250280381/punishedfordreaming/ [https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250280381/punishedfordreaming/] * The Social Relational Window: https://restorativeteachingtools.com/understanding-the-social-relational-window/ [https://restorativeteachingtools.com/understanding-the-social-relational-window/] * CAR Model (Cue-Action-Response): https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/psychology/car-model [https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/psychology/car-model] * Ubuntu: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1HQKko_qRr4 [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1HQKko_qRr4] * adrienne maree brown and Autumn Brown, “How to Survive the End of the World”: https://adriennemareebrown.net/podcast/how-to-survive-the-end-of-the-world/ [https://adriennemareebrown.net/podcast/how-to-survive-the-end-of-the-world/] * Dr. Sunita Sah: https://www.sunitasah.com/ [https://www.sunitasah.com/]

Educational Support and SEL - With Michaela Brain

In this lively episode, Michaela Brain joins us to talk about her work as an educational assistant and support worker in British Columbia, Canada. Michaela shares her experiences with SEL instruction across a variety of educational settings including group homes, early childhood centres, learning centres, and elementary schools. We also discuss how SEL programming can be adapted for students with disabilities and what other supports these students (and their support staff) may need to thrive.  Participants: Michaela Brain, BA, Child and Youth Development Worker Melvin Chan, MA, York University Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia Facilitator: Melvin Chan Editor: Adam Engelbrecht References and Resources: * Everyday Speech: https://everydayspeech.com/ * Second Step SEL Program: https://www.secondstep.org/