Ep. 52: Ben Appel on Gender Heresy and Belonging

Ep. 55: Scott Warren and Morgan Ramsey-Elliot on Conservative Voters and Saving Democracy

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum host Scott Warren (SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins) and Morgan Ramsey-Elliot (ReD Associates) to discuss their report, “Faith, Freedom, Family and Place,” an ethnographic study of conservative Americans’ relationships to democracy and institutional trust. They explain why common “save democracy” messaging often falls flat, arguing that democracy means different things across audiences and can be heard as protecting the status quo or advancing a partisan progressive agenda. Drawing on deep fieldwork, they describe a moral foundation—faith, freedom, family, and place—and three conservative orientations (actor critics, system critics, and foundation defenders) that predict tolerance for democratic norm deviation. The conversation highlights how local civic life, institutional encounters, COVID-era experiences, and information ecosystems shape distrust, and stresses listening, specificity, and honest reckoning with institutional failures. 00:00 Welcome and Guests 00:44 Why Study Conservatives 01:36 Limits of Polling 04:18 Red Associates Approach 07:03 Save Democracy Messaging 10:41 Democracy Means What 17:03 Faith Freedom Family Place 18:43 Inside the Ethnography 24:00 Values in Daily Life 28:32 Types of Conservative Critics 30:36 Crisis Segments Explained 31:41 Bridge Building Strategies 33:51 Elite Messaging And Slippage 36:23 COVID Trust Breakdown 38:19 Everyday Institutional Failures 42:06 Illiberalism Perception Gap 45:36 Ethnography Interview Method 49:02 Why Outrage Persuasion Fails 51:09 Report Reception And Backlash 54:46 Dissemination And Hope Resources Full Report: https://conservativestudy.redassociates.com/ [https://conservativestudy.redassociates.com/] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Ep. 54: Paul Kane on Congressional Dysfunction, Media Decline, and Broken Incentives

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political with congressional reporter Paul Kane [https://substack.com/profile/130986530-paul-kane] of NOTUS [https://www.notus.org/paul-kane], who explains how he moved from planning for law school to a 26-year career covering Congress and what makes a good congressional reporter. Kane argues that communications technology and the collapse of local and regional news have reshaped Congress, enabling “radical transparency” without reliable context and weakening accountability, illustrated by Rep. Tom Kean Jr. not being seen publicly since March 5th. [https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2026/06/the-missing-rep-tom-kean-jr-finally-speaks-sort-of/] The conversation covers low legislative output in 2025 and recent Congresses, the Senate’s procedural paralysis and focus on nominations, changing incentive structures favoring fundraising and attention over legislating, and norms that no longer enforce behavior because punishment can be monetized. Kane critiques media’s focus on controversy, highlights Gabe Fleisher’s Wake Up to Politics [https://www.wakeuptopolitics.com/], and ends with cautious hope in growing, less click-driven journalism and stories like Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester’s. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Blunt_Rochester]00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro00:55 Paul Kane Origin Story02:30 Reporting Lessons From Local Politics05:03 What Makes a Great Hill Reporter09:35 How Congress Changed With Phones14:23 Radical Transparency Tradeoffs15:53 Missing Congressman Case Study20:03 Low Information Voters and Swings24:15 Approval Ratings and Cynicism27:03 Why Lawmaking Has Stalled32:09 Coalitions to Gridlock33:14 Fundraising and Selection Effects35:19 McHenry’s Incentive Shift42:13 Rules Fail and Punishment Backfires45:42 Chaos Era New Normal48:48 Media’s Role in Polarization53:50 Independent News and New Models57:00 Hopeful Signs and Closing Resources Find Paul’s Work: Paul’s final Washington Post column: https://wapo.st/4uBtWDU [https://wapo.st/4uBtWDU] Pauls’s interview with former Representative Patrick McHenry (NC-10): https://535.news/interviews/patrick-mchenry-jun-3-2026/ [https://535.news/interviews/patrick-mchenry-jun-3-2026/] Norms in Congress (NOTUS): https://www.notus.org/analysis/congress-there-are-no-rules-mike-johnson-republicans-legislation [https://www.notus.org/analysis/congress-there-are-no-rules-mike-johnson-republicans-legislation] Paul’s NOTUS bio and article listing: https://www.notus.org/paul-kane [https://www.notus.org/paul-kane] Paul’s Blue Sky profile: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:vqueu3b2o4xv4kcscj4dxdwf [https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:vqueu3b2o4xv4kcscj4dxdwf] Paul’s X/Twitter profile: https://x.com/pkcapitol [https://x.com/pkcapitol] Other Writers Discussed in the Episode: Gabe’s Wake Up to Politics Newsletter [https://www.wakeuptopolitics.com/] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Ep. 53: Nathan Smolensky on Independent Voters and Finding Common Ground

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Nate Smolensky, a strategist for independent candidates and author of Common Ground From the Ground Up [https://www.amazon.com/Common-Ground-rethinking-relationships-democracy/dp/B0FJHCGRTK], about why independent identification is rising (about 45% and growing) and what people want from politics: less pessimism, more authenticity, problem-solving, and respectful engagement. Smolensky distinguishes independents as candidates and voters not beholden to either major party and argues the parties optimize for base-driven, alienating messaging—accelerated since 1994 and amplified by social media—while blocking competition through spoiler narratives. He highlights several independent campaigns polling competitively and explains “second option” strategies in one-party strongholds. The conversation also explores existential fear politics, voter empowerment, and Smolensky’s “collaborative discourse” approach—moving from win-lose argument to learning, “yes-and” additive conversations, and policy discussions that incorporate multiple perspectives. 00:00 Independents Can Break Gridlock 00:19 Meet the Hosts and Nate 01:54 Why So Many Independents 02:20 Authenticity Over Policy 04:28 What Independent Really Means 07:17 Representation Gap and Median Voter 09:15 Parties Cater to the Base 11:28 Politics as Market Segmentation 14:15 How the Strategy Took Hold 17:09 Independent Candidates Rising 20:00 Spoiler Effect and Vote Shaming 28:08 Existential Threat Messaging 32:43 Independents as Fulcrum 34:27 Earn My Vote Messaging 37:20 Collaborative Discourse Explained 40:24 Stop Trying to Convert 45:20 Zero Sum vs Additive 51:42 Yes And Policy Thinking 55:48 Moral Beliefs vs Policy 58:06 Hope and Where to Find 01:00:22 Closing Thanks and Outro Resources * Nate’s book Finding Common Ground [https://www.amazon.com/Common-Ground-rethinking-relationships-democracy-ebook/dp/B0FHQPZ8QZ] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Ep. 52: Ben Appel on Gender Heresy and Belonging

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with writer Ben Appel about his memoir Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic [https://www.amazon.com/Cis-White-Gay-Making-Heretic/dp/1637586280] and how identity, group loyalty, and the need for belonging shape belief and punish dissent. Appel describes returning to school at Columbia at 33 after a career in hairdressing and personal struggles, and how campus culture, critical theory, and political sloganeering pushed him to question reductive binaries, self-censorship, and seeing government as good only when it serves “my side.” The conversation covers polarization, the lack of ideological viewpoint diversity in education, pressures to conform, debates within gay communities such as marriage equality, and concerns about medicalizing gender-nonconforming youth and the difficulties faced by detransitioners. Appel finds hope in stepping back from social media, connecting with people, and focusing on everyday respect and curiosity, including talking to Trump voters as fellow human beings. 00:00 Talk to Trump Voters 00:19 Meet Ben Appel 01:53 Why Write Cis White Gay 06:57 Parroting Politics 13:14 Life Experience at Columbia 19:23 Starved for Viewpoints 23:23 Critical Theory as Dogma 25:40 Binary Thinking and Trump 31:54 Language Policing in Academia 36:09 Identity Buckets Debate 37:40 Growing Up Effeminate 40:42 From Inclusion to Medicalization 44:15 Critical Theory Distraction 50:22 Performing Identity Wrong 52:40 Gay Marriage Clash 01:03:18 Detransitioners Aftercare Gap 01:07:09 Finding Hope Offline 01:15:05 Wrap Up and Credits Resources Ben’s Substack Ben Appel’s Newsletter [https://substack.com/@benappel] Ben’s book, Cis White Gay [https://www.amazon.com/Cis-White-Gay-Making-Heretic/dp/1637586280] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Ep. 51: Corey Nathan on Religion, Politics, and Living Together

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political live with guest Corey Nathan, host of Talking Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other [https://www.politicsandreligion.us/], to discuss how to disagree without dehumanizing. Corey shares his shifts from an observant Jewish upbringing to becoming a born-again Christian, how family and church conflicts shaped his commitment to healthier civic conversation, and his critique of American evangelicalism as tied to colonialism and power. Lauren describes her complex religious background and conversion to Catholicism, emphasizing perspective shifting, resisting silos, and distinguishing toleration from relativism. Lura, Lauren, and Corey explore curiosity as a practice, fear and existential framing as drivers of polarization, when firm boundaries and pushback are necessary (especially against leaders harming vulnerable groups), and why civic renewal efforts and everyday people still give them hope. 00:00 Meet the Hosts 00:56 Introducing Corey Nathan 02:30 Corey’s Faith and Politics Shift 06:43 Lauren’s Interfaith Upbringing 10:19 Why Lauren Became Catholic 13:03 Evangelicalism and Empire Critique 18:34 Earning Worth vs Grace 20:36 Repairing the World Together 23:51 Holding Tension Not Binaries 28:26 Weaponized Faith in Politics 30:37 Keep Reading the Scripture 34:20 No Neat Answers 35:13 Pets and Polarization 35:59 Jesus and the Pharisees 37:39 Curious Over Furious 40:30 Cultivating Curiosity 42:17 Grace and One Degree 45:06 When to Push Back 50:16 Fear Shuts Down Dialogue 55:03 Most People Are Nuanced 56:51 Hope and Civic Renewal 01:00:42 Where to Find Corey 01:01:34 Closing and Credits Resources Find Corey on Substack here. [https://substack.com/@coreysnathan] Find his podcast Talkin’ Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other here. [https://www.politicsandreligion.us/] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]