11. Life is a C***shoot

Bonus 12. The Designer in Society continues (to evolve!)

What happens when you take a leap without knowing exactly how it will turn out? In this bonus episode, Krista sits down with Bernie and Perry Klebahn, who now teaches The Designer in Society, to reflect on the evolution of the course — and the changing philosophies behind it. Recorded on the eve of the Stanford d.school’s 20th anniversary, two years after Bernie’s retirement, this conversation is part history, part love letter to teaching, and part reminder that learning often works best when you’re willing to take the leap before you have all the answers. We talk about why doing—not overthinking—has always been at the course’s core. Bernie and Perry touch on the beloved class projects, taking small but meaningful actions, and creating a community built on presence, trust, and real conversation. 00:00 A willingness to give things a chance 00:59 Perry’s path to Stanford, through industry, and teaching with Bernie 01:44 The legendary art Professor Matt Kahn 04:31 How The Designer in Society evolved with the d.school and Perry 11:29 More on projects and taking the first real step 17:11 Prototyping life decisions with projects 22:06 Long-form reading, presence, and real conversation 23:13 No absences and don’t be late (or you fail the course) 24:08 Exercises that create trust and discomfort 25:56 Letting the class evolve 27:20 Appreciations & Regrets 32:15 The Blind Walk exercise Follow us on Instagram⁠ @yelloweyedcatspodcast⁠ [https://www.instagram.com/yelloweyedcatspodcast] for fun extras. Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson Producer: Krista Donaldson

Bonus 11. Advice for Students

In this *mini* bonus episode, Bernie and David Janka, our guest from episode 11, share the advice they give students when asked about classes, careers, and first jobs. Bernie likes to tell students that planning often doesn’t work — life is full of chance and change — and to embrace it. David encourages students to explore, enjoy the detours, and turn “mistakes” (aka learnings...) into part of their story. Together, their wisdom: expect the unexpected, and enjoy the voyage of discovery.  01:08 Bernie: Logic doesn’t matter, embrace change 01:52 David: Exploration over perfection 02:44 The value of misinterpretation and detours 04:00 Connecting your diverse interests into a story 04:23 Krista’s wrap-up: enjoy the voyage, welcome the unexpected Follow us on Instagram @yelloweyedcatspodcast [https://www.instagram.com/yelloweyedcatspodcast] for fun extras. Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson Producer: Krista Donaldson

11. Life is a C***shoot

In this (final official!) episode, Bernie reflects on how the most meaningful turns in life often come from chance rather than careful planning. He shares his own serendipitous journey to becoming a professor at Stanford (involving a case of two professors named Arnold), his unexpected entry into robotics, how a single phone call led to his pioneering work in design —and why saying “yes” at the right time matters. We’re joined by David Janka, a physician-turned-designer and faculty member at Stanford’s d.school. David opens up about leaving medicine to explore design, how the Designer in Society class helped him navigate that transition, and why creating a physical project in the class, a gift for friends, became a pivotal part of his journey.  Together, we explore questions of work, purpose, and meaning, with a little help from Gandhi and E.F. Schumacher. 00:00 Life is a c***shoot: accidents that shape our paths 01:00 Bernie on chance and opportunity 02:34 The wrong Arnold: how Bernie got to Stanford 06:13 A phone call that led to robotics 07:10 Another call that sparked Designer in Society 09:03 Are we the type of people who say yes or no? 10:00 The blessing (and curse) of work 12:53 The “Who am I?” exercise 17:30 Introducing David Janka 21:16 David’s Designer in Society project 28:25 Serendipity, careers, and saying yes 30:29 Bernie’s Burning Man camp Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast to see extras from this episode, like David's atrium staircase. Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson

10. Projection and other useful tools

In this episode, Bernie explores how learning from others helps us learn about ourselves, especially when we are seeking assistance. From mantras collected from colleagues ("We don't have enough time to hurry" and “All design is redesign”) to the powerful tool of projection, Bernie offers tools to help us navigate interactions, teamwork, and life. We're joined by Wendy Ju, a leading expert in human-computer interaction and professor at Cornell Tech. Wendy shares her journey from being rejected by Bernie when she wanted to take ‘The Designer in Society’ as an undergrad to later co-teaching a class with him. She discusses how their teaching team's productive conflicts became powerful learning moments, as well as some of the class’s best-known – and in one case, infamous – projects. We also cover the curse of networking, mini-mentoring, and managing conflict on a team. We hope you’ll join us! 00:00 Bernie's mantras from colleagues: "We don't have enough time to hurry" 01:33 The projection exercise explained 07:58 The problem with the Myer-Briggs and similar tests 10:18 When conflict arises on teams 13:21 Mini-mentoring vs. formal mentorship 15:56 The curse of networking 17:40 Introducing Wendy Ju 20:39 Wendy's journey from rejected undergraduate to co-instructor of Transformative Design 22:17 (In)famous class projects: Juul and Juntos 23:43 Teaching team dynamics and productive conflict 24:32 The power of mantras and Wendy’s "Time passes for free" 30:49 Bernie's hot tub projection revelation Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast [https://www.instagram.com/yelloweyedcatspodcast/?hl=en] to see extras from this episode! Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson

9. We're all in this together

In this episode, we talk about the importance of shared humanity within teams or groups. Bernie explains his original, and often awkward, icebreaker “When was the last time you…” and explains how Stanford's Design Group operated without a traditional leader for over 40 years. From learning names with gestures to the “I like… I  wish…” way of giving feedback, we explore Bernie's version of "radical collaboration" and why something as simple as where you sit can change your experience. We're joined by Ade Mabogunje, longtime Stanford researcher, who shares arriving at Stanford from Nigeria and experiencing Bernie's "disorientation weekend"—which involved running through ponds and rolling in grass with professors. Plus, the story of the paper boat project that revealed an unexpected truth about persistence versus brilliance. 00:00 "When was the last time you..." icebreaker 04:04 The story behind Bernie's community-minded approach 05:14: Gestures to learn others’ names 06:32 Stanford's Design Group's evolution to become leaderless for 40+ years 09:26 Bill Moggridge has thoughts on Bernie’s PPT slides 13:14 "I like and I wish" for giving feedback 15:21 The physical power demonstration: making colleagues "taller" or "shorter" 16:28 Why where you sit affects your influence 20:12 Introducing Ade Mabogunje 21:41 Disorientation weekend 24:28 The paper boat project and the importance of stick-to-it-ness 27:21 Silicon Valley culture 30:16 Bernie on competition vs. cooperation 30:29 Bernie proves Jim Fadiman (the father of microdosing) wrong Follow us on Instagram: @yelloweyedcatspodcast to see extras - we have a video of those paper boats! Co-hosts: Bernie Roth & Krista Donaldson; Producer: Krista Donaldson