Setting a Seat at the Table: How CX Earns Real Authority with Katie Stabler

Leadership Development, Emotional Intelligence, and the Self-Management Gap with Laurie Fainer

Summary In this episode of Your Customer, Your Success, Gary sits down with Laurie Fainer, Founder and CEO of Dynamic Alchemy Advisors and host of The Impact List Podcast. Laurie spent two decades inside boardrooms and executive teams, including roles as Chief People Officer at Peerage Realty and Head of HR at a Brookfield subsidiary. She now works with boards, executive teams, and leaders on the systems that make strategy stick. This conversation challenges how most organizations think about leadership development. Laurie argues that the standard playbook trains only half of what a leader actually needs. Frameworks, strategy, and structured communication get the attention. The emotional layer underneath, the part that determines how a leader actually shows up in a hard moment, gets almost no time. Laurie introduces the Elephant and the Rider framework, drawn from Jonathan Haidt's The Happiness Hypothesis. The rider represents rational, structured leadership. The elephant represents instinct and emotion. Most leadership programs train the rider relentlessly. The elephant goes untrained. And the tools built for the rider fail in the exact moments they are supposed to work. That gap leads to Laurie's three-part leadership model: leadership, management, and self-management. Self-management, she argues, is the unglamorous foundation underneath the other two. It is the ability to notice your feelings before acting on them. Without it, leaders manage around their discomfort rather than through it, and the team pays the tax. The conversation also takes a hard look at engagement metrics. Laurie makes the case that the ENPS can mislead. A seven average is not always a seven average. A room full of sevens is a different organization than one where half score nine and half score four. Trend matters more than snapshot. And by the time a declining metric shows up on a dashboard, the people closest to the work are usually already feeling it. The episode closes with a success story from Laurie's time in talent development. A pandemic-era initiative that aligned the employee onboarding experience directly with the client onboarding experience. Two systems originally designed separately, redesigned together, with measurable improvement in time to productivity. This episode reinforces a core principle of the show: Self-management is the foundation of real leadership. Internal leadership behavior is the upstream input to every client-facing outcome. Employee experience and client experience are not separate systems. They are the same system. If you lead a team, advise founders, or build organizations, this conversation will sharpen how you think about the connection between internal leadership behavior and the results that show up on the outside. What You'll Learn * Why most leadership development programs train only half of what a leader actually needs * The Elephant and the Rider framework and what it reveals about why leadership tools fail under pressure * The three-part model of leadership, management, and self-management, and why the third makes the other two possible * What unconditional positive regard is and how it changes the quality of client conversations * Why ENPS scores can mislead and what to look for in the trend and shape of the data * What Laurie had to unlearn when she left corporate to build her own advisory practice * How aligning employee onboarding and client onboarding during pandemic produced measurable results * The one question Laurie asks at the end of every first conversation, and why it surfaces what clients otherwise will not say Chapters 1:10 Introduction 3:14 What employee experience really is, and where most companies get it wrong 5:15 The Elephant and the Rider framework 10:24 Leadership, management, and self-management 14:49 Personality profiles and the limits of behavioral tools 18:27 How to think about engagement metrics, what works and what does not 24:04 What Laurie had to unlearn leaving corporate to build her own practice 27:43 Success story: aligning employee and client onboarding 33:17 Does It Hold Water? 35:41 Chip Shots Book Recommendation Cher: The Memoir, Part One by Cher Connect with Laurie * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauriefainer [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauriefainer] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dynamicalchemyadvisors [https://www.instagram.com/dynamicalchemyadvisors] * Website: https://amplified-authenticity.com/ [https://amplified-authenticity.com/] The Impact List Podcast: Available on all major podcast platforms and YouTube 🔗 Connect with Gary Marra · LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/] · Marra CX Hub: https://marracxhub.com/ [https://marracxhub.com/] · YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourcustomeryoursuccesspodcast [https://www.youtube.com/@yourcustomeryoursuccesspodcast] 📣 🎧 Please Listen & Subscribe 💡 Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review if you enjoyed the episode! 👉 Follow Your Customer, Your Success for more insights on customer experience, leadership, and business strategy. Want to be a guest on Your Customer, Your Success? Send Gary Marra a message on PodMatch here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726154102094403cb5558fc4 [https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726154102094403cb5558fc4] Looking for Fractional Support? Go Fractional! https://www.gofractional.com/r/gary-marra [https://www.gofractional.com/r/gary-marra] ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMER, YOUR SUCCESS Your Customer, Your Success is a leadership and business growth podcast focused on the idea that client focus is not just a service philosophy, it is a growth strategy. Hosted by Gary Marra, the show sits at the intersection of customer experience, employee experience, leadership, and operational discipline. Each episode features practical conversations with executives, advisors, and business leaders on how better experiences drive loyalty, trust, retention, and sustainable business growth. ABOUT GARY MARRA Gary Marra is a business advisor, customer experience leader, and host of Your Customer, Your Success. Drawing on deep experience in financial services, client management, operations, and cross-functional leadership, Gary helps organizations think more clearly about how service, trust, and execution shape growth. His perspective combines customer-centric strategy with practical business discipline, making the show especially relevant for founders, operators, and leaders responsible for long-term client relationships. #LeadershipDevelopment #EmotionalIntelligence #SelfManagement #EmployeeExperience #CustomerExperience #ClientCentricGrowth #BusinessGrowth #SMBGrowth #Founders #Podcast #PodMatch

The $5M Ceiling: The Way You Got Here Is Not the Way You Get There

Show notes below, formatted to match the Jon Morris template benchmark. Chapter timestamps are provisional pulled from raw transcript and will need recalibration after your final edit incorporates cold open and intro music. Summary In this episode of Your Customer, Your Success, Gary sits down with Eva Safar — founder of Safar Transformations and president of TAB Denver North, where she coaches growth-stage founders and CEOs through peer advisory boards, one-on-one executive coaching, and leadership transformation work. This conversation explores a foundational growth reality: The way you got here is not the way you get there. Effort, hustle, and personal heroics will build a business to a point. After that, a different kind of leadership is required. Eva calls the breaking point the $5 million ceiling, and most founders try to push through it the same way they got there. It rarely works. Eva breaks down why corporate runs on structure while small business runs on effort, why founders who built successful enterprises often lose themselves while scaling further, and why a clear vision has to come before strategy. She explains why most founders confuse being busy with being strategic, how to stop wearing every hat, and why a peer board often surfaces decisions a founder would never reach alone. Gary and Eva also connect leadership transformation to customer and employee experience — from how clarity at the top translates into team accountability to why happy employees almost always produce happy customers. The conversation reinforces that the founder's discipline, not the founder's effort, is what compounds at scale. They also explore the real cost of holding on too long, why hiring should not wait for the revenue to justify it, and what changes when an owner finally lets the business become an entity that lives outside of them. This episode reinforces a core principle of the show: Client focus is a growth strategy. Operational clarity drives scale. Leadership behavior compounds. If you're a founder, operator, or advisor working through the ceiling between what got you here and what gets you to the next level, this conversation will sharpen your thinking on vision, discipline, and what it really takes to scale. What You'll Learn * Why corporate runs on structure and small business runs on effort * The bicycle framework Eva uses to align personal vision with business strategy * Why $5 million is a systems test, not a hustle test * The limiting beliefs that put a ceiling on what founders think is possible * Why founders often should hire before the revenue justifies it * How vision unlocks the "how" without forcing it * Why peer perspective surfaces decisions a founder cannot see alone * What it means to let the business become an entity that lives outside of you Chapters 00:56 Introduction 02:16 What The Alternative Board is and how Eva's business works 04:34 The biggest gap between how corporate and founder-led businesses operate 05:05 How founders identify where they actually add value 06:51 What founders hold on to longer than they should 09:12 How vision shapes customer experience and employee experience 13:41 What tells Eva whether an owner needs a peer board, coaching, or transformation 15:29 When a founder considers firing the team versus firing themselves 18:15 The manufacturing client breakthrough at the $5 million mark 20:46 Why $5 million is the breaking point for so many founders 22:54 Where peer advisory boards make the biggest difference 27:03 How often customer experience strategy comes up in peer board conversations 31:21 Closer: The one thing every founder should do this week 33:10 Does It Hold Water? 35:28 Chip Shots Book Recommendation The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey Connect with Eva Website: https://safartransformations.com TAB Denver North: https://www.thealternativeboard.com/tabdenvernorth LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esafar/ 🔗 Connect with Gary Marra · LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/ · Marra CX Hub: https://marracxhub.com/ · YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourcustomeryoursuccesspodcast 📣 🎧 Please Listen & Subscribe 💡 Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review if you enjoyed the episode! 👉 Follow Your Customer, Your Success for more insights on customer experience, leadership, and business strategy. Want to be a guest on Your Customer, Your Success? Send Gary Marra a message on PodMatch here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726154102094403cb5558fc4 Looking for Fractional Support? Go Fractional! https://www.gofractional.com/r/gary-marra ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMER, YOUR SUCCESS Your Customer, Your Success is a leadership and business growth podcast focused on the idea that client focus is not just a service philosophy — it is a growth strategy. Hosted by Gary Marra, the show sits at the intersection of customer experience, employee experience, leadership, and operational discipline. Each episode features practical conversations with executives, advisors, and business leaders on how better experiences drive loyalty, trust, retention, and sustainable business growth. ABOUT GARY MARRA Gary Marra is a business advisor, customer experience leader, and host of Your Customer, Your Success. Drawing on deep experience in financial services, client management, operations, and cross-functional leadership, Gary helps organizations think more clearly about how service, trust, and execution shape growth. His perspective combines customer-centric strategy with practical business discipline, making the show especially relevant for founders, operators, and leaders responsible for long-term client relationships. #GrowthStrategy #Leadership #SmallBusinessGrowth #SMBGrowth #Founders #BusinessCoaching #PeerAdvisoryBoard #LeadershipTransformation #CustomerExperience #ClientRetention #OperationalDiscipline #Podcast

Why Client Outcomes Start With Hiring with Alex Grant

YOUR CUSTOMER, YOUR SUCCESS — EPISODE 52 WHY CLIENT OUTCOMES START WITH HIRING WITH ALEX GRANT SUMMARY In this episode of Your Customer, Your Success, Gary sits down with Alex Grant — Senior Vice President of Direct Field Sales at North, one of the country's leading payments and merchant services companies. Before North, Alex spent years at Heartland in senior sales leadership, recruiting, coaching, and scaling sales talent across the payments industry. Across two of the most respected names in the space, Alex has earned a reputation as a leader who develops people, drives performance, and is not afraid to say the things most operators only think privately. This conversation explores a foundational operating reality: How a company hires is the most honest signal of how it actually runs. Alex breaks down why hiring is "intelligent guessing" rather than pure data analysis, why the interview process functions as the first phase of training, and why a jumbled hiring cycle quietly erodes customer trust and conversion before a single client is onboarded. He explains why most leaders chase a fictional "perfect candidate" — what he and Gary call Tom Brady hunting — and how that pattern often masks weak internal training. Gary and Alex connect interview behavior to client experience — from candidate communication and onboarding to retention, redirection, and feedback discipline. The conversation reinforces that hiring is not separate from customer outcomes. It is a leading indicator of them. They also examine the "doesn't hold water" practice of asking candidates to deliver free consulting in interviews, why most leaders avoid giving real-time feedback, and why redirecting talent is often more disciplined than terminating it. This episode reinforces a core principle of the show: Client outcomes start with hiring. Operating discipline drives client trust. How a company treats candidates is how it eventually treats clients. If you're a founder, operator, fractional executive, or sales leader trying to strengthen hiring as a growth lever — not just an HR function — this conversation will sharpen your thinking around operating discipline, talent decisions, and the link between internal behavior and external outcomes. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN * Why hiring is "intelligent guessing" — and how disciplined leaders make it work * What a 45-day hiring process looks like, and why 90+ days is a red flag * Why the interview process is the beginning of training, not a precursor to it * How "Tom Brady hunting" stalls growth and masks weak internal training * Why redirecting talent is often more disciplined than terminating it * The feedback discipline that determines whether new hires succeed or fail * Why asking candidates to do free consulting is a red flag for both sides * How interview behavior translates directly into customer trust and conversion CHAPTERS 1:01 INTRODUCTION 2:24 WHY HIRING IS INTELLIGENT GUESSING 5:03 WHAT A HIRING PROCESS REVEALS ABOUT HOW A COMPANY TREATS CUSTOMERS 8:45 HOW LONG A HIRING PROCESS SHOULD ACTUALLY TAKE 10:03 THE REAL COST OF A 90-PLUS DAY INTERVIEW CYCLE 12:03 WHY HIRING PROCESSES DRAG ON 16:04 TOM BRADY HUNTING AND THE PERFECT CANDIDATE TRAP 28:20 LINKING CANDIDATE EXPERIENCE TO CLIENT EXPERIENCE 30:25 WHY MOST COMPANIES MISS THE CONNECTION 33:39 REDIRECTING TALENT BEFORE TERMINATING IT 37:17 ADVICE FOR LEADERS SITTING ON A HIRING DECISION 42:06 DOES IT HOLD WATER? 46:56 CHIP SHOTS BOOK RECOMMENDATION Smart Brevity by Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen, and Roy Schwartz CONNECT WITH ALEX LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralexgrant/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralexgrant/] North Careers: https://north.com/careers [https://north.com/careers] 🔗 CONNECT WITH GARY MARRA * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/] * Marra CX Hub: https://marracxhub.com/ [https://marracxhub.com/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourcustomeryoursuccesspodcast [https://www.youtube.com/@yourcustomeryoursuccesspodcast] 📣 🎧 Please Listen & Subscribe 💡 Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review if you enjoyed the episode! 👉 Follow Your Customer, Your Success for more insights on customer experience, leadership, and business strategy. Want to be a guest on Your Customer, Your Success? Send Gary Marra a message on PodMatch here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726154102094403cb5558fc4 [https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726154102094403cb5558fc4] Looking for Fractional Support? Go Fractional! https://www.gofractional.com/r/gary-marra [https://www.gofractional.com/r/gary-marra] ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMER, YOUR SUCCESS Your Customer, Your Success is a leadership and business growth podcast focused on the idea that client focus is not just a service philosophy — it is a growth strategy. Hosted by Gary Marra, the show sits at the intersection of customer experience, employee experience, leadership, and operational discipline. Each episode features practical conversations with executives, advisors, and business leaders on how better experiences drive loyalty, trust, retention, and sustainable business growth. ABOUT GARY MARRA Gary Marra is a business advisor, customer experience leader, and host of Your Customer, Your Success. Drawing on deep experience in financial services, client management, operations, and cross-functional leadership, Gary helps organizations think more clearly about how service, trust, and execution shape growth. His perspective combines customer-centric strategy with practical business discipline, making the show especially relevant for founders, operators, and leaders responsible for long-term client relationships. #GrowthStrategy #Leadership #Hiring #CustomerExperience #SalesLeadership #BusinessGrowth #SMBGrowth #OperationalDiscipline #Founders #Podcast

Vision, Vibes, Value: What Separates Great Agency Relationships from Average Ones

E51 GUEST: JOHN SAMPOGNA, CO-FOUNDER & CEO, WONDERSAUCE SUMMARY How do agency relationships compound over a decade instead of dying after a year? John Sampogna, co-founder and CEO of Wondersauce, joins Gary Marra to break down the difference between agencies that sell activity and the ones that sell outcomes, and why most service businesses get the trade-off wrong. John has spent more than fifteen years scaling Wondersauce from two people to over a hundred. Business Insider named him one of the 30 Most Creative People in Advertising Under 30. Five years ago, he made the painful pivot from project-based revenue to long-term client relationships, and that single decision reshaped how the business runs today. In this conversation, John explains why most agencies default to selling activity, how outcome-based pricing actually works in practice, and why founders should not scale away from the work that made their business valuable in the first place. He also shares how he measures client health, what he looks for in every hire, and what the best clients do that allows better work to happen. Gary and John connect agency operations to the larger conversation about retention, client trust, and the difference between transactional vendors and true long-term partners. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN * What "business acceleration" actually means for a modern marketing agency * How outcome-based pricing works in practice and where it breaks down * Why customer experience functions as brand building rather than a separate function * How John measures agency client health across delivery, relationship, and X-factor * Why moving from project work to retainers is painful but rebuilds the business * What founders should keep building themselves versus hire around * Why John hires for excitement above almost any other signal * What the best clients do that lets better work happen on both sides * How to separate a smart professional risk from a bad idea CHAPTERS 01:02 Introduction 02:14 What business acceleration actually means for an agency 04:01 Outcome-based pricing in practice 07:30 Where things break down inside client organizations 11:33 Customer experience as brand building 17:30 How to measure agency client health 20:47 The pivot from project work to retainers 23:18 Scaling lessons most founders miss 27:58 What the best clients do differently 35:35 Does It Hold Water? 37:53 Chip Shots DOES IT HOLD WATER? The defense: "We hire for hard skills. We fire for soft skills." CHIP SHOTS Book recommendation, the leader John would shadow for a day, an early-career lesson he still uses, and the professional risk that built Wondersauce. BOOK RECOMMENDATION Setting the Table by Danny Meyer CONNECT WITH JOHN Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsampogna/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsampogna/] Company Website: https://wondersauce.com/ [https://wondersauce.com/] Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/wondersauce [https://www.linkedin.com/company/wondersauce] Personal Website: https://www.jsamps.com/ [https://www.jsamps.com/] 🔗 CONNECT WITH GARY MARRA * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/ * Marra CX Hub: https://marracxhub.com/ * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourcustomeryoursuccesspodcast 📣 🎧 Please Listen & Subscribe 💡 Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review if you enjoyed the episode. 👉 Follow Your Customer, Your Success for more insights on customer experience, leadership, and business strategy. Want to be a guest on Your Customer, Your Success? Send Gary Marra a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726154102094403cb5558fc4 Looking for Fractional Support? Go Fractional: https://www.gofractional.com/r/gary-marra ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMER, YOUR SUCCESS Your Customer, Your Success is a leadership and business growth podcast focused on the idea that client focus is not just a service philosophy, it is a growth strategy. Hosted by Gary Marra, the show sits at the intersection of customer experience, employee experience, leadership, and operational discipline. Each episode features practical conversations with executives, advisors, and business leaders on how better experiences drive loyalty, trust, retention, and sustainable business growth. ABOUT GARY MARRA Gary Marra is a business advisor, customer experience leader, and host of Your Customer, Your Success. Drawing on deep experience in financial services, client management, operations, and cross-functional leadership, Gary helps organizations think more clearly about how service, trust, and execution shape growth. His perspective combines customer-centric strategy with practical business discipline, making the show especially relevant for founders, operators, and leaders responsible for long-term client relationships. #GrowthStrategy #Leadership #CustomerExperience #ClientRetention #BusinessGrowth #SMBGrowth #AgencyGrowth #Founders #Hiring #Podcast #PodMatch

Setting a Seat at the Table: How CX Earns Real Authority with Katie Stabler

Setting a Seat at the Table: How CX Earns Real Authority with Katie Stabler ***It's Episode 50 of Your Customer, Your Success!!!*** Thank you all for listening/watching! A fitting milestone for a conversation on how customer experience earns real authority inside the organizations that need it most. In this return visit, Katie Stabler joins Gary Marra to examine why customer experience continues to sit downstream of major business decisions in most organizations, even as the data consistently shows CX leaders outperform the market. Katie is the founder and director of Cultivate Customer Experience by Design, globally ranked the number three CX leader, author of CX-ism, host of Everyday CXism, and the returning host of the International Customer Experience Awards. The conversation is built around three questions Katie posed to her LinkedIn Inner Circle community: * Why does CX still struggle to influence strategic decisions? * Why do CX teams feel responsible for outcomes they don't fully control? * Why do businesses claim to care about customers while designing systems that make good experiences difficult to deliver? Katie and Gary work through the structural contradictions inside most CX functions, the difference between ownership and authority, and how influence without authority can still drive meaningful organizational change. Katie also revisits her Three S's framework, Success, Satisfaction, and Sentiment, and explains why emotion is the mechanism that turns interactions into memory, perception, and loyalty. CHAPTERS 01:05 Introduction 02:43 Katie's "The Inner Circle" on LinkedIn 04:34 Why does CX still struggle to influence strategic decisions? 09:34 Why do CX teams feel responsible for outcomes they don't fully control? 15:43 Why do businesses say they care about customers but design systems that make CX hard to deliver? 20:37 A reminder of the Three S's framework 26:04 What Katie is building with the Everyday CXism podcast 28:02 Wow or No Wow 31:31 Does It Hold Water? 38:37 Chip Shots Book Recommendations CX-ism by Katie Stabler Being You by Anil Seth Connect with Katie Website: Cultivate Customer Experience by Design [about:blank] LinkedIn: Katie Stabler [https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-stabler-ccxp/] Podcast: Everyday CX-ism 🔗 Connect with Gary Marra · LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/] · Marra CX Hub: https://marracxhub.com/ [https://marracxhub.com/] · YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourcustomeryoursuccesspodcast [https://www.youtube.com/@yourcustomeryoursuccesspodcast] 📣 🎧 Please Listen & Subscribe 💡 Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review if you enjoyed the episode! 👉 Follow Your Customer, Your Success for more insights on customer experience, leadership, and business strategy. Want to be a guest on Your Customer, Your Success? Send Gary Marra a message on PodMatch here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726154102094403cb5558fc4 [https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1726154102094403cb5558fc4] Looking for Fractional Support? Go Fractional! https://www.gofractional.com/r/gary-marra [https://www.gofractional.com/r/gary-marra] ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMER, YOUR SUCCESS Your Customer, Your Success is a leadership and business growth podcast focused on the idea that client focus is not just a service philosophy — it is a growth strategy. Hosted by Gary Marra, the show sits at the intersection of customer experience, employee experience, leadership, and operational discipline. Each episode features practical conversations with executives, advisors, and business leaders on how better experiences drive loyalty, trust, retention, and sustainable business growth. ABOUT GARY MARRA Gary Marra is a business advisor, customer experience leader, and host of Your Customer, Your Success. Drawing on deep experience in financial services, client management, operations, and cross-functional leadership, Gary helps organizations think more clearly about how service, trust, and execution shape growth. His perspective combines customer-centric strategy with practical business discipline, making the show especially relevant for founders, operators, and leaders responsible for long-term client relationships. #CustomerExperience #Leadership #GrowthStrategy #ClientRetention #BusinessGrowth #SMBGrowth #OperationalDiscipline #FractionalLeadership #Founders #Podcast #PodMatch