Numbers and Narratives

Grant Durando on Modern Offline Growth

If you’ve ever wondered why “offline” marketing is suddenly one of the most trackable parts of the modern growth stack, this episode is for you. I’m joined by Grant Durando (Right Side Up), the agency partner who first got me into podcast marketing and taught me how the audio ecosystem actually works, from attribution to execution to scaling beyond Meta. In this conversation, we get practical about what’s changing in 2026 growth marketing: how podcast, radio, and streaming audio are evolving with better measurement, why AI-generated ad creative is getting devalued by consumers, and why more brands are now matching or exceeding Meta spend with podcasts. Grant breaks down concepts like spike-level analysis, how radio attribution is becoming more measurable, and why “opt-in” environments (like podcasts) create a different kind of trust than algorithm-fed feeds. Grant Durando You’ll learn: 00:00 Intro & Grant Durando Background 05:11 Why “Offline” Marketing Is No Longer Unmeasurable 06:04 Bringing Podcasts Into MMM & Attribution Models 07:19 How Radio Finally Became Trackable 09:44 Spike-Level Attribution Explained (Radio & Audio) 11:06 Where AI Helps in Marketing Ops (And Where It Doesn’t) 16:26 Why Bottom-Funnel Tactics Are Losing Impact 17:46 The Shift to Podcasts as Top-Funnel Trust Channels 20:22 Why Podcast Ads Feel Like Support, Not Interruption 24:26 Opt-In Media vs Algorithmic Feeds (Meta, TV, CTV) 26:02 Hyper-Personalized Audio Ads & AI-Powered Audio Targeting 28:04 What’s Changed Most in Offline Marketing Over Time 29:13 How to Work With Grant & Right Side Up 30:01 Why Right Side Up’s Consulting Model Is Different 30:48 Final Thoughts & Closing Reflections

Peter Grafe and the “What To Do Next” Engine

What if your marketing measurement didn’t just tell you what happened—but actually told you what to do next? In this episode, I’m joined by Peter Grafe, co-founder of Blue Alpha, to break down what they’re building: an action system for marketing that combines media mix modeling (MMM), incrementality testing, and AI agents to deliver real-time insights and campaign-level budget recommendations. We dig into why MMM is making a comeback (privacy, tracking limits, offline + brand spend), why deterministic attribution isn’t enough, and how Blue Alpha bridges the gap between “You should increase YouTube spend” and the real operational question: which campaigns, how much, and under what constraints? Peter also shares how their anomaly detection agents spot things like creative fatigue, how business goals get infused into “context-aware” recommendations, and why the future of search + discovery (AIO/SEO) pushes marketers up-funnel, whether they like it or not. If you care about customer experience, data-driven insights, adaptability, AI, and business growth, this one is packed with practical frameworks and a clear mental model for modern marketing measurement. Tune in and let me know what you think: are you ready for marketing analytics that actually executes? Peter Grafe https://www.linkedin.com/in/ped-grafe/

Inside Customer Obsessed Brands with CX Joe

What happens when a lifelong English major turns thousands of customer conversations into a data-driven playbook for business growth? In this episode of Numbers and Narratives, we sit down with Joe Gilgoff (CX Joe) to unpack a career that spans early-stage startups, breakout consumer brands like AG1, Daily Harvest, and SeatGeek, and a bold leap into entrepreneurship. Joe shares how he transformed unstructured customer data into actionable insights, and why customer experience isn’t a cost center, but a growth engine. We explore how customer-centric cultures are built, how AI is reshaping customer support without replacing humanity, and what founders can do from day one to turn CX into a competitive advantage. From hiring the right talent to making customer-first decisions when the numbers don’t immediately add up, this conversation blends strategy, storytelling, and real-world lessons. Joe Gilgoff  https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-gilgoff-9415bb5b/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 From English Major to CX Leader 04:55 The First Customer Calls That Changed Everything 09:40 Why Customer Experience Drives Growth 14:45 Inside Iconic Consumer Brands 19:05 Customer Obsession vs Marketing Hype 23:35 The CX Playbook That Scales 28:50 Hiring Humans Who Get the Customer 33:45 AI and the Future of CX 38:10 When the Tie Goes to the Customer 43:00 Building CX Joe and the Trusted Advisor Model

Jason Katz: The CX Pain Points That Spark Innovation

How do you scale customer support from 10 people to more than 2,300—while keeping humanity, psychology, and operational excellence at the center? In today’s episode, we sit down with Jason Katz, former early Peloton leader and now founder of Lentil Labs, to explore how customer experience transforms when technology, empathy, and data-driven insights collide. Jason shares the wild hypergrowth journey of Peloton’s support team, the surprising lessons he learned rebuilding their entire support tech stack, and why he believes the future of CX is defined by operational efficiency, AI-assisted support, customer psychology, and intentional service design. We talk through the “peak-end rule,” how brands can engineer memorable customer moments, the right (and wrong) ways to use AI for delight, and why internal tools, not customer-facing ones, often determine whether teams deliver a 5-star experience. You’ll also hear about Jason’s new company, Lentil Labs, and his mission to build lean, powerful CX tools that fill the 15–25% “gap” every support team still feels, even with best-in-class platforms. ---------------------------------------------------- 00:00 – Intro 02:40 – Why Jason is only now on Numbers and Narratives 04:20 – Peloton rocket ship: scaling support from 10 to 2,300 agents 08:30 – Lentil Labs: why support teams still need that extra 15–25% 12:00 – CSAT vs cost: what really matters in modern support ops 13:10 – The Peak-End Rule: Kahneman, cold water, and remembered pain 21:40 – Designing support journeys: peaks, friction, and AI handoffs 31:40 – Surprise & delight. 46:40 – Using AI to detect peaks, trigger escalations, and support your team 52:30 – Ending well: service recovery, positive endings, and Jason’s final advice

How Generalist Marketers Win With AI

What happens when you treat vinyl not just as music, but as an asset class? In this episode of Numbers and Narratives, we sit down with Cory Huff, a self-described technology nerd and marketing enthusiast who helped build recommendation engines at Discogs, the world’s largest music marketplace. We dig into how hardcore vinyl collectors think, why “collection value” matters more than taste, and what that means for building smarter recommendation systems in a world of rare pressings, promos, and blood-infused records. From there, we zoom out into Cory’s career as a T-shaped marketer across B2B and B2C, from music and fine art to his current role as Director of Marketing at Andrews Cooper, a B2B engineering services firm building everything from automated eyelash machines to a phone-battery-powered defibrillator.  We also talk about the “bike shed problem” in marketing, the danger of overstuffed job descriptions, why so many marketers are scared to ship bold ideas, and how to build data-driven, AI-powered workflows without losing the human judgment that makes campaigns actually resonate. If you care about marketing ops, recommendation engines, AI, and building a truly cross-functional career, this one’s for you. https://www.linkedin.com/in/coryhuff/