Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #93: Interview with Dr. Alan Chase, Director, EyeRetreat.org

🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #93: Interview with Dr. Alan Chase, Director, EyeRetreat.org | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-21-2026/ [https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-21-2026/] In this forward-looking episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna welcomes back Dr. Alan Chase [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-alan-chase-7b669536/], founder of the EYE Retreat, a one-week intensive summer program now in its 19th year, hosted at the Governor Morehead School for the Blind in North Carolina, for an update on what's cooking for the 2026 cohort. Alan walks listeners through how a weekend gathering of about 15 students has grown into a packed week-and-a-half program serving roughly 40 students this summer with a waiting list, staffed entirely by volunteers and funded principally by the Lions Club and the Delta Gamma Foundation. He breaks down the camp's two parallel tracks, a college track that takes students from choosing a school, picking a major, and learning self-advocacy through navigating course catalogs, accommodations, and campus resources, to a final personal-roadmap presentation; and an entrepreneurship track that walks students from generating a business idea, through fine-tuning, business-plan development, and a Shark-Tank-style investor pitch by the end of the week, alongside the dorm-suite living arrangement of four students sharing two rooms and one bathroom that doubles as a real-world classroom in communication, scheduling, and social problem-solving. What gives this conversation its larger weight, however, is the through-line of capacity-building. Alan returns repeatedly to the camp's mission of growing the next generation, bringing students back as mentors, then as coordinators responsible for recreation, dorms, and entire tracks, so that leadership skills are forged alongside academic and entrepreneurial ones. Together Donna and Alan name the still-unsolved barriers in the field: the social side of education that academic accommodations alone don't address; the roughly seventy-one-percent unemployment rate among visually impaired adults that Donna cites; the irony that some countries' low official unemployment numbers come from government-set-aside jobs that strip away self-determination; and the rising population of young people with multiple disabilities whose lives are now being saved by medical advances and who deserve every path to independence. Alan closes with his wish that the educational system embrace the whole child, including the nine areas of the Expanded Core Curriculum researchers have identified as essential to independent life, and Donna closes with the news that she will attend the EYE Retreat in person at the end of July for the first time, after participating virtually since 2024. TRANSCRIPT Advertisement: This podcast brought to you by Pneuma Solutions. Advertisement: I can't see it. Advertisement: ADA Title II has a real compliance deadline. April 2026. Public entities are required to make their digital content accessible, including websites, PDFs, reports, applications, and public records. If a document cannot be read with a screen reader, it is not compliant and if it is not compliant, blind people are still being denied equal access. For a clear explanation of what the rule requires, visit www.title2.info. It's one of the leading resources explaining what agencies must do and when. This message is brought to you by Pneuma Solutions, we have remediated hundreds of thousands of pages in days, not months or years, aligned with WCAG 2 AA guidelines at a fraction of traditional costs. Accessibility isn't a privilege, it's a right. Now that you know, ask your agencies a simple question, are your documents actually accessible? Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate and accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its website accessible to every Canadian, not just to cited ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law, and most recently, on June 3rd, 2023, I was tremendously humbled by Her Late Majesty. S Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. And when I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio, you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench, where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a changemaker whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. I am pleased to welcome back Doctor Allen Chase, who was with us last June. Welcome, Doctor Allen. And how are you doing today? Dr. Alan Chase: Well thank you Donna. I am doing I am doing great and thank you for having me back. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh it's my pleasure. I'm dying to know what's cooking in your world. What are you up to? And tell us about what's going on with the camp in July. What are you planning? Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, well, you know, I think the first and foremost, the the world of disability advocacy is, is ever changing. It's it's never quiet. It's never static. It ebbs. It ebbs and flows. Yes. And that's sort of where I live. I live right in, in the, in the mix of that, where it all intersects. And I think one thing that has always been very, very intriguing to me is how do we build capacity among, you know, our, our students, our young adults. So then they can be the these change makers because eventually people like you and I, you know, we're, we're going to go do other things. We're going to we're going to retire and we're going to enjoy life and. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: We have to build the next generation. And so that's, that's one thing that, that I, I really set out to do. And so you mentioned, and we talked about this last year and, and you, you asked, well, how's the camp coming this year? Well, so, you know, the, the I retreat this is our 19th year. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, I would never have thought 19 years ago when this idea popped into my head. I would never have thought that we would be where, where we are today, where remarkably, we as, as it stands now, the, the demand has been so great. We have a waitlist this year. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No way. Dr. Alan Chase: We do. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Tell us more. Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, well, we just, we don't have, you know, so we are very, very lucky that, you know, we work collaboratively with the Governor Morehead School for the Blind in North Carolina, and there's only so much space. You know, we the I would love for, for it to be endless opportunity. But you know, the reality is, is that you're, you're only as big as, as your space, you know, allows. So we I think right now we have, we're somewhere in the 40s, we have around 40 or so that are coming and oh yes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh my lord. Alright. Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. So and, you know, we, we, we always try to change things up. So we have a, a very robust schedule for the coming year to expose people to you know, how to, and, you know, we have the, we have the two, the two tracks. So there's one track for us going to college and learning how to be a college student. And then there's another one for being an entrepreneur because, you know, one thing that we've learned over the years is that, you know, you might have a lot of, you know, academic credentials, you may have a lot of good experience, but there's still a barrier with employability. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. So sometimes you have to make your own, your own path in life. And that path might be starting your own business. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, indeed. Dr. Alan Chase: Yep. So I think our last year, the last couple of years our entrepreneurship track has been a little larger than our college track. This, this year it's, it's about 5050. Dr. Alan Chase: And, you know, as I mentioned, we're we're looking at some creative ways to, to get people out there to, to show them, you know, different, different job opportunities that they, that they might find useful, beneficial, you know obviously accessibility work is, is one of those areas because that's a natural skill. It's something that you live and you breathe every day because you're, you're a user, you're a user of assistive technology. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Dr. Alan Chase: So, so that's one area. But then, you know, we also recognize that some, some folks may have other aspirations. They maybe they want to practice law or maybe they want to be a business owner or they want to be an accountant or whatever their, their goal might be. Right? You know, so we have to connect them to to, to mentors and to people in those fields so that they can, they can get a feel for? Is this really what I want to do? And if it is, how do they go about actually doing it? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, when you started out 19 years ago, how many students did you have? Do you remember? Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, you know so going back 19 years ago, as I reflect on that we probably had maybe. Maybe about 15 or so. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Whoa. Yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: So huge, huge growth. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The. Dr. Alan Chase: The other thing that I think is, is really important is, is the length of the program. So we when we first started 19 years ago we were just a weekend event, you know, we, we started on a Friday and it was, it was basically, you know, three days, maybe three and a half days. You know, we, we started on a Friday and we ended on a Monday. Right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Dr. Alan Chase: And slowly over time, we've we've grown since to now where we we start on a Friday and we go for about a week and a half because we don't end until the following weekend. Right. And, and so again, the, you know, the we've had, we've had requests over the years from people to say we need more time. We, we want there to be more time. And the only limitation that we have is staffing and, and really money. Because in this, you know, in this particular instance, our entire program, 100% of it is volunteer. We, we have no, no paid staff whatsoever. Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Dr. Alan Chase: And so, you know, to us, and that includes myself. And so to, to ask people, you know, to take a week off of their from their lives, their jobs, their families to volunteer. That's a big commitment. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Dr. Alan Chase: And so, you know, we, we recognize that. And, and that's sort of been the, the, the reason that we haven't moved beyond one week. But I think, I think the, the demand is there. What, just when the, when the, when the resources are there to, to provide for that. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But what about having like maybe two camps a year, like one in the summer and maybe one in the spring? Is that feasible? You think. Dr. Alan Chase: You know, that's a really good question. And we've we've talked about that over the years and there's, there's a couple of different competing factors that, that play into that decision. One of the factors again, goes back to resources and funding. So we we receive two, two of our main funders is the Lions Club. And our second one is the Delta Gamma Foundation. And so the, the funding that we currently receive from them allows us to run our summer program. And then of course, you know, we use the facilities at the Governor Morehead School, which are we, we do pay for those facilities, but it's a very nominal, nominal cost. Right. So with that being said we would need to find space where those same priorities align, you know, that the, the, the cost is nominal someone who's willing to fund it and so on. And one of the biggest challenges is that during the school year, the. The governor Morehead School is not available because their students are they're they're they're using the dormitories. They're using. They're using the classrooms. And so then we have to find an alternative space. And, you know, we need space that allows for overnight sleeping. We need space for food. We need space for classrooms. Dr. Alan Chase: And there are, there are places out there like community centers, churches, things like that that are willing to, to work with us, but not that have all of all of those things. You know, like churches and community centers, they have space where we can have classes, but they don't have dormitories. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Right. Yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: So in any event, you know, I, it's one of those things where it's a goal. But it's a goal that once every once everything aligns, then I think it'll be a reality. We just have to work toward that goal. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, what about like, during March break? Is that possible? Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. So spring break, you know the, the thing, the thing about the school itself or the facility piece is that while the students are not physically there their, their belongings are still there. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Yes, yes, yes. Dr. Alan Chase: You know, so you know, it's still their dorm room, their dorm space, you know, they, the only time they actually move out is during the, for the summer. Right. And so that's again, that, that's where the, the, the challenge comes into play. The other, the other challenge that we, that comes into play, I think is, is just scheduling. And when I say scheduling, I mean Pretty much everybody. It doesn't matter if you're in middle school, high school, college. Pretty much everybody gets the summer off, right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Yes. Dr. Alan Chase: But the, the rest of the school year, things are not as consistent. You know spring, spring break for, for a college is oftentimes different than for high schools. Right. And so finding a common week where most people are, are also off of school is just really challenging. Dr. Alan Chase: So you know, that that creates a barrier there because if we pick the week, you know, some may have to miss school and some may not be willing to miss school and so on. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What about two summer camps then? Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that goes back to what we, you know, if we during the summer, we, we certainly have the we have the space. Right. It would just be a matter of, we would need to convince folks to give us a little bit more money. Yeah. And then we would need to convince folks that you know, we would, we would need more volunteers because, you know, as it, as it stands now, we have a, a, an excellent dedicated staff that comes for a week. And I'm, I'm not so sure, you know, after, after this one week you know, and we're super excited that you're able to join us this year. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, I am honored and I'm privileged. Thank you for inviting me. Dr. Alan Chase: Yes. And I'm sure so, you know, at let, let, let me paint the picture at the beginning of the week. Everyone is super excited. There's lots of energy. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Dr. Alan Chase: And then by the end and by the end of the week, everyone is exhausted because you've you've been on the move. You've you've been in classes, you've been off campus, you've, you've stayed up late making new friends. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right, right. Dr. Alan Chase: And so that's why I, that's why I say, you know, we, if we did a two week two weeks, we would probably have to build in a break or find a, a second set of volunteers to, to, to staff it be just, you know, because it's, it's a lot, it's a, it's a very intense week. We, we start with breakfast at around 730 in the morning. Dr. Alan Chase: And then we, we, we pretty much, we have classes and activities all the way until dinner time. Dr. Alan Chase: And then even. And then even in the evenings, we have evening activities. Folks are going to the gym. They're going to the game room. They're going off campus. So pretty much you're, you're on the go from breakfast until you, until you go to bed. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh my gosh. It's it's hectic. Yeah yeah yeah. Now tell me about the content of some of these activities like lectures, workshops. Tell me about it. Tell us about it. Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, for sure, for sure. So you know, again, we have, we have two tracks. We have the college track and the entrepreneurship track. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Dr. Alan Chase: And the entrepreneurship track, you start at the beginning of the week with creating an idea and we encourage you to think about, you know, what are your interests, what are you good at? What do you want to do? Well, what motivates you? And then over the course of the week, the classes that they take build on that idea so that at the by the end of the week, you have to make a presentation or a pitch. Sort of think of like Shark Tank, right? You're, you're in front of investors and you have to pitch your, your business idea. And so that's the, that's what they do over the course of the week. They, they take their idea, they fine tune it. They develop their business plan. And by the end of the week, they're pitching their idea. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Dr. Alan Chase: So that's sort of the, the entrepreneurship track, the college track. You, you start the week again with, with an idea of, you know, where do I want to go to college? What, what do I want to major in? All those Important decisions, you know. And part of that decision also is what do I want to do with my future? You know, your future might be maybe the career path that you want to go down requires you to go to graduate school. And so then you have to think about, well I have to build my undergraduate career to prepare me to go to graduate school. And so we start with, again, with those big ideas. And then the courses over the over that week all align with those concepts. So how, how can you be successful? So how do you have to be a good advocate? You have to know what your needs are. You have to know what your accommodation should be. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Dr. Alan Chase: You have to know how to navigate you know, selecting your classes, what classes do I pick? How to know what a course catalog is. Things like that. How to how to, you know, how to make sure that you're meeting grade point requirements and you know, and filling out applications and, and so on. So, and, and accessing just across the campus, accessing all the resources, you know, the, maybe the career center or the writing center or whatever the case might be. Dr. Alan Chase: And so for that group, for that, for the, for the college track, by the end of the week, their goal is they also have to do a presentation, but their presentation is geared more toward what they have learned over the course of the week about themselves. Dr. Alan Chase: And kind of laying out a roadmap of this is, this is where I am. This is where I want to go and this is how I'm going to get there. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Do you have repeat students, doctor? Like, would they come, like from more than one year? Dr. Alan Chase: So, you know, we, we do, we, we do have some who, who come for more than one year. And we encourage that. And the reason we encourage it is because I'm going to go back to what I said at the very beginning. We want to build capacity. And so we want we want you to come back as a student. But more importantly, what we really, really want is we want folks to come back to be part of our staff. We want. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Dr. Alan Chase: We want you to come as a student. You experience what we do, how we do it, and then we want them to come back and then serve as a mentor. We want them to be a mentor pass on their experience. You know, they, maybe they came, they came to our college track. They went to college. Then let's say they went and got a job and got some experience. And, you know, now they come back and they say, you know, now that I've gained all this experience, I want to share my knowledge. I want to give back and share my knowledge with others. And so we, you know, of course, we encourage that. And then we also, you know, the next step above that is we, we want to build their leadership skills. So we have, we have opportunities beyond being a mentor to, to be a leader. So we have some coordinator level positions where you're responsible for coordinating various aspects of the program. So for example, you know, we have like a recreation coordinator. And so that that person kind of organizes all the evening activities. And we, we have a coordinator over the entire career track. And we have a coordinator over the entire college track. Dr. Alan Chase: We have dorm coordinators who are responsible. The dorms are a great learning opportunity because a lot of people have first, well, first and foremost, most people have may have never experienced a situation where they have to share a living space. So that's that, that's, that's the first challenge. The second challenge is for a lot of people they may be the only person with a visual impairment in their community. They, they, they may have interacted with people, you know, virtually or on the telephone or in some way like that with other people with visual impairments, but not, not in a physical in-person space. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right. Dr. Alan Chase: And so it, so you know it. I like to call them learning opportunities. So, you know, are there, are there challenges? Are there some difficulties that arise when you're sharing a living space? You know, do let's say, for example, do snacks and drinks magically grow legs and walk away? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Dr. Alan Chase: Absolutely. They do. You know, does, does one person want to get up at 5 a.m. and get a shower and, you know, listen to music while their roommate wants to sleep in right up until breakfast time? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, yes. Dr. Alan Chase: It happens. And so those are learning opportunities to, to problem solve and to figure out, well, okay, how, how do I talk to my roommate about the sleeping schedule or the bathroom schedule? Or How do I communicate with folks to say, hey, look, this stuff in this cabinet on the right side, this is my stuff. Don't touch it. Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: On the left side. Dr. Alan Chase: That's right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I won't touch it. Dr. Alan Chase: That's right. So you know, and so that's sort of the social side. So, you know, there's the social side of it. And so with when, when you're a coordinator, you know, when you, when you have a leadership role within our program, those are sort of the things that that our coordinators have to, to deal with and address and it, and it builds your leadership skills because, you know, honestly, what, what usually happens is most people will, they'll come to me, they'll say, well, doctor Chase, this happened or doctor Chase, can you, can you do this? Or can you solve this? Or, and you know, and don't get me wrong, there, there are certain situations that that only I can address. Right. But but by far I say, have you talked to your coordinator? You know, have you have you talked to your mentor? And usually the answer is no. And so then I'm like, well, your first step is you need to talk to them and try to work it out before you come to me. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right. So. Dr. Alan Chase: You know, so we're trying to build. So, you know, to wrap it all up, we're trying to not only build up for our students, their academic and their employability skills, but we're also trying to build their social skills. And then for, for our staff, we're trying to build their leadership skills. So then, you know, again, later on in the future that they have the capacity to carry forward what what you and I have been doing. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So it's a very intense week. And these these kids or youngsters, they get to meet new people. Is, is this just confined to the state of, you know, North Carolina or does it go across the US? Dr. Alan Chase: That's a really good question. So we by far because the response, the, the responsibility of travel is on the student and their family. So, so by far the, the majority of the people that come to the camp are from the, the, the eastern part of the United States. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Dr. Alan Chase: Okay. Just because transportation is, is simpler, easier, cheaper. Yes. Now, that doesn't mean that we, we, we do have, and, and we have had people come from all over the United States and, and even other countries. Oh. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Dr. Alan Chase: So, for example, you know, this year we, we have some folks coming from Illinois. We, we've had, we've had folks from California, New York, new Jersey, Massachusetts, Florida, Texas, I mean, really all all over. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. One year, several years many years ago we did have two people who came from Mexico. Oh. So. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. So, you know you know, I, I suppose we could claim that we're international. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Of course. Yeah. Wow. So you're saying for this year, you got about 40 students? Yes. Dr. Alan Chase: Roughly. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. And the dorm rooms themselves. Are they like private rooms or. You got to share. Tell me. Tell us about that. Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, yeah. So? So I'm going to try to paint a picture here for you. So think of like a suite. So there are in one dorm room, there are two beds. Dr. Alan Chase: So you share an actual room? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: And then there is a bathroom in the middle that connects to another dorm room. Yeah. So it's a suite of four people to two people per room. Okay. With with a common bathroom. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bathroom. Okay. Dr. Alan Chase: And so that kind of goes back to what I, you know, alluded to earlier of if all four people decide I'm going to sleep in and get up at the last minute. Well, four people can't all take a shower at one time. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? So they have to schedule each other or, you know, whatever. Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, you have to you have to coordinate. And, and what I and what I say to people is what that boils down to is communication. You, you have to communicate. Dr. Alan Chase: And, you know, you may not always. And just like in a, in an employment situation, right? You, you may ask your boss for something. You may not always get what you want. And that's okay, but you have to live with it. And so in this situation, you know, maybe your routine is that you get a shower and, you know, in the mornings, but you may have to be flexible and take your shower the evening before. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Interesting. And these kids are eager to go and they know all these things before they get there, right? Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, yes. Yes. So actually next in two weeks. In two weeks, we're gonna have a large group meeting. So it's going to be the students, all of the mentors, our coordinators, everybody who's coming, they're all going to come to this big meeting and we're going to give them you know, basically an overview. Just like now we've, we've shared all this with, with them in writing, you know, we've shared them with them, you know, this is what you need to bring, this is what the space is like. Here's the schedule. But during this group meeting, you know, we're going to go over some of the logistical things, sort of like how I've communicated to you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Dr. Alan Chase: And again, it's, it's going to, it's going to be an opportunity for folks to, to ask questions, clarify things. Advertisement: From. Dr. Alan Chase: You know, things like that. You know, we, we want to be very transparent and we want, we want folks who are coming to know that these, the, we, these things are done intentionally because we, we want it to be a learning opportunity. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Right. I personally am looking forward to this opportunity. I've started with you in 2024, and I was delighted when you invited me to come down this year, and I'm looking forward to it. I mean, the first year I, I, I was with you virtually, those kids just blew me away with their attitude. So refreshing, so eager to, to do things and, and to share their ideas. It was amazing. Last year was very similar. So this year I get to see it face to face and I can't wait. You know it's I don't know what else to say. I mean, it it's it's great. And, you know, I, I hope that moving forward after this year, I hope you find a way to expand. But 40 kids, I, I don't know what I was expecting you to tell me, but 40 kids is a lot, right? Is this the most number of kids that you've ever had? Dr. Alan Chase: That's a really good question. And the answer is actually no. I think the, the largest number that we've ever, ever had I want to say was 52. Oh. And we were and at, and the year that we had 52, we were literally bursting at the seams. Because, you know, again the, the, the space is only as big as the space is, right? I, I can't, I can't make the rooms bigger than they are. Yeah. And so, you know, we've, we've sort of, we've sort of have found over the last 19 years that, you know, the, the sweet spot, a good number is somewhere, somewhere between 35 and 45. So we're right there where we want to be. We're not, you know, we, we, we have found that more than 45 were stretched a little thin. If, if it's under 35, you know, you, you lose a little bit of, of the learning just because the the numbers are smaller. So I think we're, we're right where we want to be. We, we found the sweet spot. And, you know, we're, we're, we're super excited to, to be able to continue and, you know, we're, we're already we haven't even had this year yet. And we're, already having conversations about, well, what are we going to do for our the big 20 years? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Next year. Yeah. Something special, I guess. Yeah. Wow. And you've been involved from the word go. Like this is your brainchild. Dr. Alan Chase: It is. Yes. You know I believe that things are really formed out of necessity. And so, you know, again, 19 years ago, we, we had an opportunity where people, people came to me and they said, hey, look, you know, we're, we're, we're struggling here with, you know, how do we navigate this, this thing called college? How do we know what to do and when to do it? And how do we talk to people? And so it was born out of necessity. And then and at the time we knew there was a need, but we didn't know how how great the need was. Dr. Alan Chase: And I think what we've learned over the years is that the, the, the need is, is tremendous. It's a, it's a huge need out there. Yeah. And I, and then I think the other thing that we've, we've noticed and very similar to what you shared during your introduction is that we've, over the years, what I think we've identified is that education, largely that most of the barriers in education have been addressed with legislation. There's, there's laws now that govern accessibility and accommodations and things like that. Right. The, the barrier that still exists in education is really the, the, the social piece the how do I participate in the, the broader educational community? Because there's such a high focus on academics. We think we forget, we forget about, well, the, the social skills, we forget about sports clubs, organizations, things like that. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: And so I think we're, you know, we're, we're making progress there. Now the area where I, I think we're, we're not making progress is and the employment side. So yeah, you know, we, we have, again, we have laws on the books. There's, there's lots of legislation about you know job accommodations and, and things of that nature. But what, what we're seeing though within the numbers, the, the statistics, the data tells us that that people with visual impairments are still largely, you know, either unemployed or underemployed. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. And that's a very sad picture. It even exists here in Canada. Dr. Alan Chase: Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Maybe globally, I don't know. But what was the stats that I, I saw the other day. 71% of unemployment amongst vision impaired people. Dr. Alan Chase: That sounds that sounds about right. And I and you know, and I think the I do think it's a global issue from a lot of the research that I have done, you'll, you'll find that in the countries there are some countries out there where unemployment is very low for people with visual impairments. But when you dig a little deeper, when you kind of peel that back, which will which you'll often find is that the reason that that the unemployment is so low is because most of those jobs are, are, are government jobs. They're the, some countries have systems in place where there are certain jobs that, that are set aside by the government specifically for people with visual impairments. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right, right. Dr. Alan Chase: And so then, you know, then then you have to ask the question of, well, you know, that's great that they have a job, but it may not be the field that that they want to be in. Right. And so, you know, it creates a, it creates a system where, you know, your, your self-determination, your your goal, your motivation you might be locked into something you're not happy with, right? Dr. Alan Chase: So but yeah, so to connect that back to what we were talking about that's, so that's one of the, that's one of the motivators for, for us is, you know, we're, we're seeing, so we're seeing positive things. But we're also still seeing some, some need. And so 19 years ago, we started based on necessity and that necessity is, is still there today. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And probably will continue to grow. I think. Right. Dr. Alan Chase: Oh yeah, I, I think you know, again, looking at some of the data and I think this is, you know, this is where I think disability kind of intersects a little bit with the, the medical world. Advances in medicine have allowed people who maybe ten, 20, 30 years ago may not have lived. Maybe their medical condition was such that they, they pass away early in life. Or maybe, maybe they're not even born at all. But now they, you know, they, they are born and they may have a visual impairment and other disabilities. And so we have to account now that for, for that population they, they also equally need to be employable. They need to have access to higher education. And you know, they, they don't need to be institutionalized. They, they need to be able to have the self-determination to say, well, this is what I want to do with my life. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. This is very interesting and, you know, really, really exciting for me. I'm really looking forward to being with you at the end of July. But tell me, Doctor Allen, what if you had a wish or a hope? Because my clock is winding down here. What? What would be one of your cherished hopes for the future? I know this camp is enormous, and this camp has really done a lot over all these years, and to be still around after 19 years is a great feat in itself. So what are your hopes and dreams moving forward after this camp? Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, I love that question. And I, I, I'm going to I'm going to answer it in a pretty broad sense. Yeah. Because, you know, I, I think our camp is at the, at the end of the day, the core of what we do is education. And we are one very small piece of a very big puzzle. Yeah. Because we're only there for one, one week out of the year. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: I think my wish would be that we we need to look at the whole child, the whole person. And I think our our public schools, our educational system. I think we do a decent job in some cases, a good job of the the academic piece, but I, I, my fear is, is that we, we, we don't do a good job for those extra the, you know, there's the expanded core curriculum, which has nine areas that are some of them are associated with academics, but. But most of them are not. And those are the nine areas that really. Research has identified that a person with a visual impairment needs to, to master and be successful at in order to to be successful and independent. Right. And so I, I think that our, our educational system needs to embrace the idea that we're not just educating a person academically, but we're educating the whole person. And so we have to allow time and opportunity to incorporate some of those non-academic skills into what we do. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It's going to be very interesting. And, you know, like with AI now being a part of the landscape, how are we going to shape the futures of our leaders? You know I don't know, you know, but I know one thing that concerns me is that when you and I retire, that there are people there ready to pick up the mantle and keep on going, you know. Dr. Alan Chase: Well, you know, I think the, the, the answer to that, to that question which is very interesting is that the you'll notice that a lot of people in our field don't retire or if they do retire, they continue, they continue to work after retirement. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: Because they, they live in that, that void of, of where they fear. Well, if I, if I do stop working, then no one's going to come behind me and fill the gap, right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Alan Chase: And, and so that's, you know, we have a lot of great people in the field who who are at the, the time of retirement or, or, or well beyond the time for retirement. But it's such a specialized field and there's so few people and we, we have not done as good of a job as we could have of building the next generation. So I think that's, you know, again, that's, it's, it's necessity. We're, we're, we're building it based on necessity. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I agree. Doctor Allen, it has been a pleasure having you back. And we've learned so much. And you know, I know our listeners are are going to be really interested to be following you as we as as you go along. And I'm looking forward to, to actually meeting you in person and Ashley and Tiffany and everybody else at the end of July. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Well, we are. Dr. Alan Chase: Super excited to have you. And for all of to all of your listeners you know, I, again, I, I encourage all of you to, to check us out, be advocates and, and reach out, let us know what your needs are and how we can help. At some point we would, we would love to continue to expand and be able to touch, touch people in other places. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I might have a way for you to be able to expand, and I will send you an email offline and introduce you to my associate, Aaron. Aaron is the godfather of persons with disabilities network. And I think that this could benefit you in many ways. So stay tuned. But in the meantime, thank you for being here again. And we'll, we'll be happy to have you again. And you know, in a few months after this camp is over. Dr. Alan Chase: All right. Well, thank you again and I hope everyone has a great day. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You too. Take care now and see you soon. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye bye. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye bye now. Bye. Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #92: Interview with Paul Gareau

🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #92: Interview with Paul Gareau | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-19-2026/ [https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-19-2026/] In this deeply nostalgic episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna welcomes Paul Gareau, retired Executive Director of the Montreal Association for the Blind (MAB) and architect of the 2006 MAB-Mackay merger that became today's Lethbridge-Layton-Mackay Rehabilitation Centre [https://www.llmrc.ca/about-us/history/], for a conversation tracing his thirty-year journey from Loyola sociology graduate, to University of Toronto Master of Social Work scholarship student, to the lone social worker for 1,800 students at a Sherbrooke high school, and on into the leadership rooms of one of Canada's most beloved disability-services institutions. Paul walks listeners through residential life at the Penfield Reception Centre, his Concordia Diploma in Institutional Administration earned in night classes while running MAB full-time, and the remarkable breadth of services under his stewardship, from the low-vision clinic, talking-book library, and Gilman Residence to the Philip E. Layton School, the technical-aids boutique, the Employment Integration Program, the Braille production unit, and a service of more than 300 volunteers. What makes this conversation unforgettable is that it is also a reunion. Paul was once Donna's own social worker and the person who recommended the surgeon Dr. Joel Rosen for her first corneal transplant; Donna herself lived at Penfield for a year and a half at the start of her Montreal journey. Together they recall the late Dr. John Simms, who appeared at her hospital bedside after her 1981 accident; the formidable Irene Lambert, whose voice helped keep right-turn-on-red out of Montreal; lifelong best friend Charlene; and volunteer reader Jill Bond, with whom Donna still travels Europe. The episode closes with Paul's post-retirement strategic-planning consulting and board work with the Pillars Trust Fund, including pandemic-era funding so parishes could stream masses during COVID, and his three enduring lessons: keep your eye on the mission, adjust quickly to changing circumstances, and remember that every challenge carries an opportunity inside it. TRANSCRIPT Advertisement: This podcast brought to you by Pneuma Solutions. Advertisement: I can't see it. Advertisement: ADA Title II has a real compliance deadline. April 2026. Public entities are required to make their digital content accessible, including websites, PDFs, reports, applications, and public records. If a document cannot be read with a screen reader, it is not compliant and if it is not compliant, blind people are still being denied equal access. For a clear explanation of what the rule requires, visit www.title2.info. It's one of the leading resources explaining what agencies must do and when. This message is brought to you by Pneuma Solutions, we have remediated hundreds of thousands of pages in days, not months or years, aligned with WCAG 2 AA guidelines at a fraction of traditional costs. Accessibility isn't a privilege, it's a right. Now that you know, ask your agencies a simple question, are your documents actually accessible? Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I am Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, an accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty Platinum Jubilee Award for her tireless work with with tireless work and commitment to removing barriers. When I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio, you will find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench, where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. I am honored and I am pleased and privileged to welcome Paul Garrow. Paul and I go back a very long time, and I will share with my listeners that Paul is responsible for the doctor who gave me my first corneal transplant, doctor, Joel Rosen. Paul, welcome to our podcast. Paul Gareau: Thank you so much, Donna. It's a real pleasure to be with you and touch base with you again. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, indeed. So, Paul, after Loyola, you went on to earn your Master of Social work at the University of Toronto on a full academic scholarship. And then you came back to Quebec to work with the Polyvalent secondary school population at the centre de service socio the last three in Sherbrooke. What pulled you toward direct on this ground? Social work with young people in those very first years of your career. Paul Gareau: The interesting question. Thanks, Donna. I, I, I went to Loyola High School, as you mentioned, and then I went to Loyola College to get a B.A. in sociology, and I found it fascinating to study societal problems. But I thought, you know, I wouldn't mind trying to do something about them. So I investigated social work. I had taken an introduction to social work course in my undergraduate studies, and the prof was was a practitioner and he brought in different community group representatives. And I just thought it was fascinating. So I applied to U of T and got into their Master of Social work program. And I had a number of different placements. And it was at that time that I realized that I was really drawn to working with youth. So I had the opportunity to do so at, as you mentioned, at the Saint Silvester in Sherbrooke, Quebec, and I was hired to work at a high school to be the social worker there. And I was very anxious to start. When I got there, there were 1800 kids and there was one social worker. So I had a lot to learn. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, Whoa! Paul Gareau: Yeah, but I was I was drawn to it because young people can go through difficult times. And it was my feeling that if they could make it through those challenges at that at that young age, it can really make a difference to their life then and in the years going forward. So it was it was fascinating to work. I had, as I said, I had much to learn as a young neophyte social worker, but it was a it was a fascinating experience and one I treasured. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, in 1976, you joined the Montreal Association for the blind as a social worker. The start of what became a 30 year journey. Looking back, what was it about the MLB and the visually impaired community in Montreal that captured your heart and made you decide to stay? Paul Gareau: Yeah. I remember coming to the Montreal Association for the blind, for my for my job interview. And when I walked into the place, it was just so welcoming. I'm sure that you and your listeners have had that same experience. You walked into an organization and it just felt good. It felt welcoming, and it felt like a place you'd want to be. Right. The people, as you know, because you were you're a part of the family. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, I was. Paul Gareau: People were so warm. They were friendly. They were professional. It felt like a good place to be. And I also, during that day that I was doing the interview, I had the opportunity to meet with blind and visually impaired staff and clients. And I realized in speaking with them and spending some time that I could, I could really have a lot that I could learn from them. So I was fortunate I got the job. And as you say, it was the beginning of what ended up being a 30 year career at the Mab. I was and I was just really fortunate to have been a part of the Mabee family for, for all those years. It was was a great place to work. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It sure was. And I will always remember the first day I walked in there, I was just a kid. I was a teenager. And it was so welcoming, you know, like people were great people, you know, reached out, want to help you out and everything. I remember the day you became our social worker and, you know, it was quite something else. You know. Paul Gareau: We won't say how many years ago that. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No, no, no, we don't, we won't, we won't know. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Gosh, now, many of our listeners may not realize that the Penfield's reception Center, which you directed from 1979 to 1985, was formally opened to the Mab in 1973 by the legendary neurosurgeon, Doctor Wilder Penfield himself. Can you describe what daily life at Penfield was like for clients and staff, and what running that site taught you about how Rehabilitation Center truly comes alive? Paul Gareau: Yeah. Penfield was a residential rehab program at at the Montreal Association for the blind, for Blind and visually Impaired young adults, and many of whom had other additional disabilities. So during the day, there were one on one and group habilitation and rehab programs for each client. We were very lucky at Penfield. We had a staff of special care counselors, but there were additional staff from the Mab occupational therapy orientation and mobility instruction, etc. to really give the program a full gamut of services. So the days were pretty, pretty busy with with programming for each client. Evenings and weekends were a lot more fun in some ways. We got to, we got to do a number of activities, outings, barbecues, you know, that kind of thing. The, the staff were were exceptional. All of us at Penfield, I think from clients and staff and volunteers, we were back then, we were all pretty young. And I think in many ways, we grew up together at Penfield and in many ways as well. It was a home for us all. There were friendships that were formed there that amongst staff and clients and volunteers that were to last a lifetime. And it was, it was a remarkable experience. I was, I was blessed to have the opportunity to be part of it. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, that's where I got my start to. When I came to Montreal, it was at Penfield. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No kidding. Yeah. Paul Gareau: I, you know, I, I thought so, but I didn't want to say anything in case my memory failed me. Really? So what was what was your what was your feeling about it from, from a client point of view? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, Paul. It was overwhelming to me. But you know what? Staff made me feel so welcomed. And, and the other roommates that I had, you know, like Christine and Charlene. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And Eve and I could go on and on. We were family, you know, like I was far away from home. And they made me feel that I had a home, a new home. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Paul Gareau: It really it really was something special. I just, I look back on it and as I say, we're it sounds trite, but it's not. It was it was a real valuable experience of feeling that this was a home for us all. And it was, it was extremely special. What was the, what was, if you had a highlight from it, what would be a highlight from your time at Penfield or a memory that really sticks out in your mind. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The day we met Doctor Wilder Penfield. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, like. Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I didn't quite understand who he was at first. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And then staff member said, do you know who he is? And I said, I'm not sure. And then they educated me and I thought. And I shook his hand and he said, when's your birthday? And I told him, and he says, well, my birthday is almost the same day. And I thought, I wonder if he's putting me on or what is he doing here? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But I shook his hand. I'll never forget that night. Paul Gareau: It was. There was a. There was a plaque when you when you walked into Penfield? Yeah. With the name of Penfield Penfield House, and it was named after him. And I can remember seeing that when I. Every day when I walked in. But I'm like you, I was I was a little. I was taken aback when I met the man in person. He was just a. It was just something very special. Really special. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Gareau: So you were at Penfield for. For how long? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I was at Penfield for a year and a half. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. All right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I still kept going back. I still. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Kept. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Going back. I, I had to go back and, and, you know, interact and engage with, with the roommates that I had left. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But you know, this and I made long, life long friendships with, with some of the staff members too. Paul Gareau: It's amazing. I mean, the, the staff all went on after Penfield to do so many. They were all successful in very different ways in the helping professions volunteers to was, was a touching experience for, for them. I got amazing feedback from, from people who said that in some ways it changed their life. Just to know that that kind of a place could exist was, was, was something special. So yeah, it's it's, I think you have to have lived it to appreciate it. And it was, it was only when, when it was over that I began to realize, you know, how fortunate we were to have that time to, to be there at Penfield together. It was an incredible experience. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think. Well, I know like for me, I always try to appreciate it the best way I could, but when I actually left it and then I moved to Toronto, I cried, I cried, I, I missed it, I missed the whole maybe not just Penfield. Paul Gareau: Yeah, maybe. I think I always say that like Penfield was like a home and the map was like a family. Paul Gareau: And just Yeah, just something special. And you kind of had to experience it to to to believe it. So it's neat to hear what, what your recollections are. And as I say, we're going back a few years. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah, we. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Were going back many years. But, you know, the one thing I will always remember when I graduated with my Bachelor of Commerce from Concordia University, and all the staff members were out cheering and I thought, what are they really cheering about? And then someone said, they're cheering about you, you idiot. You know, and they supported me all the way. You're not going to get that today. You know. Paul Gareau: It's it was it's hard to find any time, but I think it's especially more difficult to more difficult today is the service delivery systems have changed to some degree. Yeah. But yeah, we, we had something special going there and it was like, I think we all were learning how to be more independent together. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah. Paul Gareau: And I think we were all really looked at it as an opportunity to learn from each other and be with each other. And it was yeah, it was just a really amazing time. People. I've run into people you know, years later and who have gone on to do some incredible things in the professions and all of them have the same feeling they look back on Penfield is just this special experience that was they've never been able to replicate really anywhere else. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So no. Paul Gareau: I'm glad to hear you. You felt, you know, the same way from a from a client perspective. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I did, I did, and I will never, ever forget it. And I, you know, I don't know if there's going to be a reunion one day or could there be one? Paul Gareau: Yeah. You know, we, we had a small get together not that long ago, but it's something that you know, we try to keep in touch and it's, it's harder to do as the years go by. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Oh, gosh. Yes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now during those same deputy editor years, you were also enrolled in Concordia's evening program for the Diploma in Institutional Administration, earning a place on the Dean's Honor roll while running a full time portfolio at the MEB. Wow. What drove you to take on that kind of academic load? Mid-career. And what did the DIA ultimately unlock for you? Paul Gareau: Well, I moved on from Penfield and became the deputy executive director, which took me further into the management area, which is something I didn't have a lot of experience in. And it was it was I was lucky in the DG role, that deputy DG role that I got to get some experience in working with the Quebec Ministry of Health and Social Services, the local Health and Social Services Commission, and work collaboratively with other rehab centres as. As the. It was required. But I came to realize that I needed to add some new tools to my skill toolbox. Something I'm sure that you found in your career to at some point with, with all the courses in the many degrees that you've amassed. So I found that graduate program at an institutional administration at the John Molson School of Business at Concordia. And I thought it might help give me the background that I was missing in finance, accounting, marketing, management, leadership. Right. I had the clinical skills, but I didn't have the managerial background. So I found the program was really interesting. It gave me, you know, what I needed, I think from a managerial point of view. But the other thing I realized when I was completing it, it gave me a different perspective on how to look at a rehab center. I always looked at it from a clinical point of view, and looking at it from a quote unquote business point of view. It gives you another perspective and it allows you to, you know, have a have a wider experience in which to make decisions that are going to affect the organization. So ultimately proved very helpful going forward. It really I think it, you have to look at in your career, what areas you can continue to work on to improve and meet the different situations that you're going to encounter. And I thought this was, this was one of the helpful things to, from a managerial point of view, to get me going down that road, you know? Well equipped. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It must have been a lot of hard work, like your full time job during the day and at night you're off to school. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Paul Gareau: Yeah. And, you know, you're, you know as well as anyone. Your weekends and your evenings are kind of shut. So you have your your days pretty full with your full time job, and your evenings and weekends are filled with your education. But you know, I think it's a worthwhile investment to make. It's one, you know, it's hard to do, but it was it was, as I say, it was really useful to me in getting skills that, that I was really lacking if I was going to continue on a managerial path. So yeah, it's, it's always difficult, I think, to do evening courses. And I have utmost respect for the people that do them because I know it can be a slog at times. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But you had to really balance your life a lot during that time, didn't you? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Paul Gareau: I'm well, I'm sure, you know, getting your law degree, I'm sure was no easy feat for you either. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No. Paul Gareau: And I'm sure you found your evenings and weekends pretty full as well. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, by the time that you were executive director of the Mab. The Mab was serving roughly 2000. 200,000 blind and vision impaired clients a year, and with a budget of about $8 million. 168 employees and a service of more than 300 volunteers. Okay. Paint a picture for our listeners of just how wide that organization's reach truly was. From the Low Vision Clinic to the orientation and mobility instructors out in the community and the technical Aids boutique with its 200 plus adapted devices. Quite a mouthful. Tell us. Paul Gareau: Yeah, we we were really happy to have the range of services that we were able to offer at MBB. We served a number of clients per year, usually about 3 to 4000 clients a year. We had a number of full time and part time employees. The rehab side was organized along multidisciplinary teams by age groups. So we had an early intervention team, a youth team, an adult team, and a seniors team. Paul Gareau: And the services that were available from those teams was wide ranging. We had social work. We had low vision services, orientation and mobility. We had training in computer technology, something I'm sure that for you has been a lifelong learning skill. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Paul Gareau: Yeah. Occupational therapy, communication skills. Daily living skills. We had yeah, we had a library with 845 people users. We had a visual Aids program. We had Gilman residents for seniors, which. Which had 70 seniors in residents. We had a day center for 310 blind seniors. We had a technical Aids boutique with the day. We had about 7000 users per year utilizing that service. We operated Philip Layton School on site in collaboration with the local school board for 36 students, and we had 61 students integrated into public schools throughout the English Montreal School Board, as you mentioned, we had 300 volunteers, and I can't stress enough how important volunteers were to be able to provide everything that we we felt we needed to provide to our clientele. We had an employment integration program where we had 163 users per year going through that. We had a Braille production program where we produced over 30,000 pages of text transcribed into Braille, and we had leisure time activities. We had a weaving group, we had a ham radio group, and we had 86 clients to 100 clients per year in our cheerio program, which was bingo and other activities for blind seniors. So in looking at, you know, take taking a view from 100,000ft, we had the, we had just a number of services, a full range of services for people. And we were extremely fortunate to be able to have all those services. But what the Mab was really about, besides the programs and the statistics, really what the Mab was all about was people. And we were very blessed to have the staff, the board of directors, the management, the clients and the volunteers that we had to make it the special place it was. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, I'll share two little stories. One of them, one of my volunteer readers is now my lifelong friend. And almost every year we travel together across Europe. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Her name is Jill Bond, and I'm meeting her in a week from now. And we're going to be off doing a trip. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Where are you going? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'm all. I'm meeting her in London, and then we're going to Europe, and we are going to be doing an evaluation for a cruise company. We're starting off in Denmark. Amsterdam. We're going to Norway. Sweden, Finland. Poland. France. Oh. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I mean, you don't get these lifelong relationships very, very often. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You don't. Right, right. So. Paul Gareau: Well, that's really special, isn't it? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It is. And then, you know, like the librarian, Dorothy Allen. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Don't know. Dorothy is still with us or not, but she was, I don't know. Do you know if she. Paul Gareau: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But she was a special lady for sure. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes she was. And then we had Marian Torpey. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Port operator, and Nicole and Ellie Ann and Mr. Evans and Doctor Sims. Well, most of them are now gone Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Paul Gareau: Doctor Sims was special. He was executive director. And when I began my career and he appointed me as deputy director general. So I had so much that I could learn from him. He was he was an amazing fellow. I mean, he was he was head of the English Montreal school board. He was the mayor of Montreal West. He was a Protestant minister, and he was the executive director of Mab. So I I had a lot I could learn from a man of his stature. And he was, he was he was unbelievably supportive and just a role model for, for me. So a real gentleman and an excellent professional. You you knew him as well? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I did, yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I did, and he did a lot for me. And he always had time to listen to me. And I'll never forget, I had an awful accident in 1981, and one of the first people to show up at the hospital was Doctor Sims. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, and he said to me, do you want a chaplain to come by? I said, you you'll do Doctor Sims. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It's fine. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know. Paul Gareau: Isn't that something. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It is, it is. I mean, you you just don't you don't get these types of relationships anywhere else. You don't not in today's world. Paul Gareau: A I think I know sometimes when I'm singing the praises of maybe to someone who, you know, didn't benefit from the experience, I don't think they quite believe it. You know. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That. Paul Gareau: That, that, that, that can happen. But if you know, as you know, if you meet anybody that manages to be, you know, part of that family it was something special. So wow, that's, that's an amazing story about Doctor Sims. So much like him. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Paul Gareau: Yeah. Wow. And your volunteer reader, how many years is that now? That friendship? Or should we or should we even go there? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: We won't go there. But I will. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Tell you, it's. Oh, gosh, it's probably almost half my life, you know, like. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, like, I never thought that we would, you know, retain a relationship. And my best friend Charlene, right. When I met her so many years ago, the very first day. So I walked into the MAB my parents left me there and said, now you better make this happen. And I thought, oh dear. So we sat down to lunch and, and they were serving Mexican chicken. And Shah said, would you like my chicken? I said, I guess I would, and she flung it into my plate. It spattered all over my face, my sweater, my hair, my everything. From then we were good friends, you know, we were best of friends. And I'll never forget it. And like I said, when when you recommended Doctor Joel Rosen. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'll never forget that you came to visit me at the hospital that night, and I knew then I that I was going to get vision because I could see through the patch in my eye. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I could see colors, I could see things. And I thought, this is not happening to me, is it? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Paul Gareau: Amazing, amazing. Amazing stuff. I saw Charlene just the other day. There was one of One of our employees was ex-employees from MB. Was retiring after 40 years. And and there was this, there was a little a little do. And cha was there. So. And in good in good form. So next time I see her, I'll pass along your good, good wishes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah yeah. Paul Gareau: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So in 1993, Mab participated in a Quebec government pilot to establish a formal users committee, Giving clients real representation on the board from your seat at the leadership table. Why did giving blind and visually impaired clients in a formal voice in government matters so much matter to you? And what changed? Once it was in place? Paul Gareau: Yeah. The Quebec government passed legislation to call for the formation of users committees among health and social service establishments, as you say. And I think it was a it was an important initiative to give clients the opportunity to be involved in the decision making at health and social service establishments and, and really give them a seat at the table. But for us at Mab, we already had something going along those lines long before the government passed the legislation. Mab, since its inception, Had bylaws which govern its its direction. And the bylaws called for one quarter of the board of directors to either be blind or visually impaired, blind and visually impaired persons, or from families of blind and visually impaired persons. So the Mab, from its outset, always had one quarter of its board of directors for the 16 board clients or clients families. So we were, I think, ahead of its time in that regard. Nonetheless, I think the, the formation of the users committee increased and enhanced the client participation in the running of the center. And we were extremely fortunate at Mab to have Irene Lambert. I don't know if you knew Irene. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I do. Paul Gareau: All right. So then, you know, she was a well known advocate for blind and visually impaired community. For years and years and years, she served as the president of our Users Committee, a long time member of the Board of directors. Irene was just so special and so connected and so forthright about about the needs of the blind and visually impaired community. She was just a tremendous leader. She brought so much knowledge to the table. And we were we were so fortunate to have her. So you knew Irene? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I do. And I, you know, I have a little story to tell in that when I was president of the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians, she brought me into a corner and she said, listen here, you're not showing any strength. I think it's about time you did something. And I thought, oh, dear God, I don't want to get on this lady's wrong. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No, no. Paul Gareau: If Irene asked you to do something, you better be doing it. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Or else. Yes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No. She was. She really helped me a lot. She showed me the way. She was a tower of strength, you know. Paul Gareau: She was really something. She. She founded the low vision self-help organization in the West Island of Montreal, right? I remember going with Irene to when they were going to have right turn on red, red lights. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Paul Gareau: And in Montreal, they were they were looking at having right turn on red lights for cars in Montreal. Right. And it was something that we were really fearful of for our clientele. And the clients were adamantly against it. So I remember going to a hearing with Irene and you know, I, she spoke first and I didn't have much to add after she, she had given her speech because she, she knew her dossier backwards, forwards and sideways. Yeah. And you know, she was just so great at putting it forth in venues like that. And a little addendum, we still do not have right turn on red in the city of Montreal. So I think we have Irene to we have Irene to thank for some of that. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right. Paul Gareau: Yeah. Special, special lady still going strong. I see her irregularly, but she's still very active and blind or visually impaired community. And yeah, just an amazing voice. And leader and someone that, you know, I learned a lot from. And I, I used to also say people would say, well, how do you know what the, what might be the next thing you would want to do for the MAB in terms of service enhancing services or delivering services in a different way? And I used to say, I just have to listen to Irene tell me what to do, and then I just go, what to do it. So she was really special and influential on, on the the, the, the, the, the enhancement of the client services at the Mab. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: How old is Irene now? I think she's in her 90s. Paul Gareau: I, I know she's in her 90s. She's definitely in her 90s and still still going strong, really going strong and still very active. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Don't mess with her, though, a. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No no no. Paul Gareau: No. But I mean, you know, you always know where you stand with Irene. And you know, she's always right. It's the other thing with Irene. So, you know, you need to listen and take your advice very seriously. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Paul Gareau: And just somebody just on a personal note, she was just such a great person to work with. I mean you know, you're sitting at boards of directors and other places where, you know, it can be challenging at times if you're dealing with government bodies or whatever. And she was just a, for me was just a terrific support. And I really appreciate everything she brought to our organization and to me personally. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, this interview is really it's so nostalgic. You know, there's so many memories of so many people. It's it's unbelievable, you know? Paul Gareau: Yeah. So many, so many good people. And, and you're right. We get talking. It's like when I run into other either employees or volunteers or clients from from our many years of having been at NAB. And yeah, you just bring up the names of people who are so special and so important in so many different ways. So yeah, really, really a special place. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So the clock is starting to wind down, but I have this question for you. Surely one of the decisions you made as executive director was to open two satellite satellite offices to decentralize services delivery. Why was bringing service closer to the people who needed them so important to you, and what did clients tell you about the difference that that change made in their daily lives? Paul Gareau: Yeah. The the decision to open satellite offices was important to me because it was important to the clients that we serve. The clients were really looking. Much looking towards having services made available closer to their homes because. Many lived far from the main offices and we were just talking about Irene. Irene was a champion of this of this dossier. She felt very strongly that we should be looking at bringing some of our services closer to different locations to allow greater accessibility for, for our clientele. And we were, we were able to do so. And to be fair we did it in collaboration with other service centers. And they were very welcoming to have us set up shop in their, in their in their places of service delivery. And that was we were well received, I think because we were well known in Montreal. But it was really, it was a cooperation at a number of levels that allowed us to proceed. And the feedback from the clients was, was extremely favorable. You know, accessing the services locally was I think it was especially appreciated by people who had mobility problems or seniors who had difficulty traveling further to get the services and programs. So we couldn't do everything. We couldn't offer all our services in the, in the satellite offices, but we especially offered the low vision service and other services. As you know, we used to do home visits when necessary. So between the combination of the satellite offices and the home visits, we really were able to reach clients who either couldn't come to the Mab or who, for whatever reason, it was important to deliver services in the home, sometimes for orientation and mobility, as you might remember, or activities of daily living. Any home adaptations, it really required a home visit. So between, as I say, between the satellite offices and the home visits, we felt pretty comfortable about being able to get the the services that our clients required in the location that was, was, was appropriate for them. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Boy, the lab really played a large part in so many of our lives, isn't it? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Paul Gareau: It did. It did. I think it still does. Has a has a special place in people's hearts. Yeah. Who who were there? Yeah. But Yes. Pretty special. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The mom also ran the Gilman residence for blind and vision impaired seniors and a seniors day center, the Philip E Layton School on on site itinerant teaching for integrated students and in employment integration program, a Braille production unit and a talking book library. What did it mean to you personally to lead an organization whose services touched a person from earliest childhood, all the way through their senior years? How did that feel to you? Paul Gareau: Yeah, I was I was just honored to be part of the Mabee family and so proud of the vast array of services that we had available at the Mab. And in terms of leadership. I mean, I think the leadership of the organization was shared among so many people. Different doses, different people took the took the lead. It was really a collaborative approach between as we were just talking about Irene as head of the users committee, you know, our management, our volunteers, our staff, our clients all had, you know, input and took on responsibilities in getting things done and identifying areas that we needed to develop. So it was really a it was really a place of collaboration. I think too, in terms of the, you mentioned the breadth of the services, you know, the client, as, you know, the, the client, you know, the needs of the client as a student are very different than those of a working adult or a senior. Yeah. And the, the Mab had programs and services to, to meet every need. I think the goal was, wasn't to create a client dependency, but you could speak to that better than me, I think. But to be there with what was required at each stage of life. So from your point of view, you know. I mean, I think some people look at the range of service saying, well, you're trying to get, you know, you're looking at having people being reliant on the Mab. And I never felt that way. I felt we're there as a resource to be there. If a client needs something and that those needs, those needs might change, you know, over time. Is that was that your experience or. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Paul Gareau: How did you feel it? How did it feel to you? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The MLB to me was a resource. The MLB was a support, a group of supportive staff members and volunteers. I never thought of the MLB as taking my independence from me. They showed me how to be independent, you know, and even like as a student gosh, you know, all the services I took advantage of and, you know, you had volunteers involved with, you know, I want to read to you, I want to do this for you. I want to do that for. And I think, I can't believe this, you know, I felt like a child in, in, in, in a candy shop. You know what I mean? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Paul like, right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I never, I didn't have to ask very much. People were offering and that that's the way it was. I mean, I think even you read some stuff to me. Come on now Everybody chipped in to read. I mean, and you even had Bill Rudkin's father reading to me. Right, right. And Linda Smoak's husband reading to me. Susan Russell's husband. Like, so it was volunteers and their spouses. Paul Gareau: You're bringing up the names from the past that I remember so fondly, you know? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Paul Gareau: I think I think you're right. I think more important than the range of the services that were available. And they were there were a lot. Never, never as much as we would want. But, you know, they were pretty good with what we had. And we certainly had a wide range. But I think really the important part was the people, the staff, the clients, the volunteers who made up the Mab. Yeah. And who always, you know, wanted to be there for each other when when they were needed. So. Yeah. Just it's just fascinating to hear it from, from, from your perspective. And looking back it solidifies, you know, what my feeling is and what my, my vision was of, of what was what it was like to be there. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I always remember Chris, my friend Chris. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know what? We will all go into Gilman and we'll all live there. And I had she had this dream. And now the dream is gone because Gilman is closed. And I said, so Chris, what's the next. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Paul Gareau: What's what's the plan now? Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What's the plan, Chris? But she said, you know, she honestly thought that we would all be living in Gilman. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know. Paul Gareau: It's strangely it's a nice thought. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. In some ways it is. It is. Yeah. Paul Gareau: Unfortunately, Gilman fell by the wayside. And yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So now that you're retired and this is my final question to you, in addition to supporting the Habs as we both do. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What, what's you know, what's your vision like? What what are you thinking? Where are you going? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well. Paul Gareau: Since I retired and I, I found myself, I took a little time off just to to have some downtime after a pretty hectic pretty hectic job. And then I got to. I got a little itchy feet. So I went into the resort and I became a consultant in strategic planning for health and social service establishments in Montreal. And that was really interesting. And it was, it was a lot of fun. It's always, it's always good when you can pick and choose your dossiers, you know, if you like the dossier and you like the institution, you know, you can take the job. If you don't, you don't have to. So that was interesting. Right. And I realized that you know, doing just the strategic plan, then you get asked to do a feasibility study around the strategic plan. And then if the strategic plan is accepted by the board, then sometimes you get asked to oversee the implementation of the plan. So it became pretty busy fairly quickly. And I realized I was back working five days a week. So I came home one day to my wife and said, no, no, I have to retire again. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Which, which I did. Yes. Paul Gareau: And then I thought I might have something to offer. So I I became involved with a number of boards of directors of non-profit establishments in Montreal and served in different functions. And I found that fascinating. I think, you know, all organizations share the same, many of the same challenges as time goes on. So it's been very interesting. One of them was Pillars Trust, which is a Catholic charity which supports English speaking Catholic parishes in Montreal. So that was, that was very interesting. One, we lived through Covid with them. And you know, I think that we learned a lot. Like, I think like most nonprofits and government organizations, we have to make some decisions quickly. You know, we the board had to go on Zoom and start embracing Microsoft Teams fairly quickly. And interesting little side story is we, we, we were getting calls from parishes saying that they, they couldn't have people couldn't have masks, people couldn't attend mass with Covid times. Right. And so after mulling it over for a while, we decided that we would provide funding for parishes to provide, to get audio visual equipment. They would need to stream masses to to the parishioners during the Covid crisis. And we did that for a number of parishes. And you know, it's, it's something that's stayed on that Covid finished, but the streaming of the masses continues. So some good comes out of it, right? So I think, you know, a lesson we learned from that is one is as a as an organization, keep your keep your eye on the ball, you know, keep your your mission in mind. What is your mission? And secondly, you really need to quickly adjust to changing circumstances. And then thirdly, I think, which we always recognize in retrospect is that every challenge presents an opportunity. And so I think that's what, you know, whether it's pillars or any other organization, I think that's what you have to look at many challenges out there, but they also prevent opportunities. And sometimes it can end up enhancing your services in what you do. So interesting moving forward. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This has been one of the most enjoyable and nostalgic interviews for me, and I am so happy that we've had this opportunity to, you know, sit down and hear from you. And I really appreciate it. I really, really do. Paul Gareau: Well, one last word with someone who is for someone who has been a member of the Mabee family, I just want to and maybe folks are out there just thank them for everything that they've done for so many years. And yeah, you know, I think it's been noted by many people greater than myself that when people come together to work for something bigger than themselves, so much can be accomplished. And I think the Mabee family has over the years proven that to be so. And it's nice to be able to sit down and reminisce with a member of the family. It's been a real joy, and I thank you for the opportunity for us to touch base. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you so much, Paul. And maybe one day I'll see you in Montreal. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I would look forward to it. Paul Gareau: Maybe go to a Habs game. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Definitely. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you so much. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you Paul. Take care now. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You as well. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Bye bye. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye bye. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye now. Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #89: Interview with Ben Akuoko, MSW, Advocate of Diversity & Inclusion, Public Speaker, Consultant, Entertainer, Community Connector

🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #89: Interview with Ben Akuoko, MSW, Advocate of Diversity & Inclusion, Public Speaker, Consultant, Entertainer, Community Connector | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-12-2026/ [https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-12-2026/] In this candid and deeply motivating episode of Remarkable World Commentary: Donna sits down with Bernard "Ben" Akuoko [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-akuoko-36b05199/], social worker, disability advocate, and founder of The Brightside Scope [https://brightsidescope.com/], to trace his journey from a two-year-old diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa to one of Canada's most thoughtful voices at the intersection of race, culture, and disability. Ben opens up about the moment in grade three when he realized the other kids could see the board and he could not, the years he spent pretending to read books just to earn classroom stars, and the disorienting friction of growing up in a Ghanaian household where disability was tied to religion and curses, while his school was already teaching him Braille and a white cane that his parents told him to put away the moment he came home. He shares the loneliness of his teenage and twenty-something years, the racial profiling and false theft accusations he has weathered as a Black man with low vision, and the cognitive-behavioral counseling that finally helped him stop hiding his disability, even from friends who had known him for ten years and still did not know what was going on with his eyes. In the second half, Donna and Ben walk through his improbable academic climb from a D-grade elementary student who was almost held back, through first-year university academic probation, to a Bachelor of Social Work at Laurentian University, where he was the only Black male in his graduating class, and finally to a Master of Social Work at Renison University College at the University of Waterloo. They close on the work Ben is doing now through The Brightside Scope, his platform for showing what race, culture, and disability look like when they are finally talked about together, on his life as a boxing-training, marathon-running, Ghana-colors-on-his-cane advocate who refuses to victimize himself, and on the book he has already begun drafting, one Donna has promised to be among the first to read. TRANSCRIPT Advertisement: This podcast brought to you by Pneuma Solutions. Advertisement: I can't see it. Advertisement: ADA Title II has a real compliance deadline. April 2026. Public entities are required to make their digital content accessible, including websites, PDFs, reports, applications, and public records. If a document cannot be read with a screen reader, it is not compliant and if it is not compliant, blind people are still being denied equal access. For a clear explanation of what the rule requires, visit www.title2.info. It's one of the leading resources explaining what agencies must do and when. This message is brought to you by Pneuma Solutions, we have remediated hundreds of thousands of pages in days, not months or years, aligned with WCAG 2 AA guidelines at a fraction of traditional costs. Accessibility isn't a privilege, it's a right. Now that you know, ask your agencies a simple question, are your documents actually accessible? Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be, who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just his sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was very humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio, you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in real time. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench, where a policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. Ben Akuoko, welcome to my podcast and it is a pleasure to have you. Ben Akuoko: Absolutely. Thank you so much. And it is an honor just hearing all those credentials and the lived experience that you have experienced. It is an absolute honor being here. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much. So, Ben, if I may call you Ben? Ben Akuoko: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Welcome to the remarkable world of commentary. I would love to begin where so many of our listeners begin. And this is at the very beginning. And when you were diagnosed with retina. Retinitis pigmentosa at the age of two. Can you take us back to those early years and tell us how that diagnosis shaped the way that you understood yourself, your family, and the world around you? Ben Akuoko: Wonderful. Very good question. Absolutely. And I liked how you brought in the sector of family, because when it comes to any disability, being diagnosed to someone when they're young, family is a huge part, so it does affect the family as much as it affects the person, especially when it's the parents. So even with that said, as you may mentioned, with retinitis pigmentosa, I was diagnosed at two years old and even growing up as a young person because the eye condition, although you have it when you're earlier in the years of having the eye condition, you could pass as a person who sighted. So I didn't fully understand that I was a person who had low vision. Ben Akuoko: So with that said, I thought all the other kids saw like me, right. So I would still use regular prints, but I would have to have lights. And then also I would play basketball and football and play sports and video games. Just I would sit closer to the TV when I'm playing video games and with sports, I, I was a little bit more clumsier, but I totally never knew I had any form of a disability. A visual disability at all. So with that, it was years of finally understanding. So I remember when I was in grade three, which I believe you're seven years old. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Ben Akuoko: And I noticed that like all the kids are looking on the board and taking notes. And then there was me who was like, I can't see the board. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Like, oh, dear. Yes. Ben Akuoko: So it's like, what is what's going on in my little mind? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Wow. Ben Akuoko: Yeah. Like what's going on? And then it was times, and I told this story before. It was times where we'd get to pick out a book during reading time. And I remember I'd pick out a book and I'd pretend to read a book because you used to get stars for all the books you read, right? But I couldn't even see the book. So there was probably times I had it like, upside down. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh gosh. Yes. Ben Akuoko: And then here I am pretending to read the book. So I think as I got older, I was like, okay, I am different. And yeah, I remember when I was only in grade three, they taught me they were starting to teach me Braille. Ben Akuoko: And using a cane. And it was so confusing, like I found through elementary school, it was very confusing because I'm like, what is going on? I, I can see fine. Like, I don't get why you're teaching me and you're teaching me cane skills and I'm going to camp with other kids with blindness, low vision. But even with that said, it was the fact that with retinitis pigmentosa, you eventually lose your vision. And as you get older, it gradually gets worse. So pretty much they were preparing me for for the future. So I am very grateful. Although I still have some usable vision, I am very grateful that I learned cane skills because I'm a full time cane user, and then also Braille like I do use Braille moderately. So pretty much with if I didn't learn Braille, I'd be trapped in a lot of elevators. Ben Akuoko: That's what I gotta say for sure. So yeah, just even in the journey, I feel like as I got older, I started to understand my vision loss and how vision loss is a spectrum. And then I know probably the hardest times with vision loss was when I was a teenager. And then when I was my in my 20s. Right? Because you're in that phase where it's like, why me? Like I'm being punished and I can't get a license like all my other friends. And also, oh my gosh, I'm left off of the sports teams and you're just finding yourself and it's like, oh my gosh, I'm different. I'm different. I'm the butt of everybody's jokes. Being a person who's, who's blind. And with that time, it was very difficult. And I, I've been to low places when it came to that. And it makes perfect sense because as a young person, you're, you're developing right. You're, you're, you're growing, your self-esteem is growing, your self-awareness is growing. So I really appreciate that journey in the low life or low times of living with sight loss, because now I am so grateful and I'm appreciative of how I made it out of that the low times and kind of having to deal with low vision. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, your story reminds me a lot of myself. When I first started going to school, well, I was put right into a school for kids with vision loss. And I kind of thought, why the hell am I learning to use my fingers instead of reading with my eyes? Because I, too, had a little bit of vision. And why is it my brothers are going to to another school and I'm going to this school? Like, what the heck is going on? And my little mind, I started to sort it out very quickly, and my parents kept gently reminding me it's because you can't see and it's because you're blind, you know? So. Your story is no different than mine in that aspect, you know? Ben Akuoko: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. So you are the son of Ghanaian immigrant parents, and you have spoken publicly how disability was rarely Discussed in your West African cultural context, almost a taboo subject during your formative years. Okay. For listeners in our global global audience who may share that experience, what was it like growing up at the intersection of two identities, blackness and blindness, that the world around you did not always know how to hold together? Ben Akuoko: A very good question and very good topic. And I look back at it and I think to myself the importance of inviting multiple identities in a conversation. Because as a black male, Ghanaian parents living with vision. Disability is a different experience than a Canadian born family with kids with disabilities, right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Ben Akuoko: Because when I look back at my culture, Ghanaian culture, although our culture is very family oriented, where we're loving culture, we're very welcoming to to everybody who comes to your doorstep. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Ben Akuoko: It was a lot of fear. And when it comes to disability, it's associated with religion and curses, right? So. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Ben Akuoko: Where it was, we gotta heal you. We have to find a way to heal you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Like, oh, gosh. Ben Akuoko: Yes. Yeah. We, you would be so much better and so much happier if you had eyes and oh my gosh, like the world will never accept you for low vision. And it wasn't necessarily My parents say that, but at the same time, that's how they grew up, right? And it makes so much sense because when you go to places like Ghana and I would say developing countries, the main thing in life is to survive, right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Ben Akuoko: Not not that it's like, oh my gosh, survival of the fittest, but pretty much with countries like that, like jobs can be scarce. There's some poverty. It is hard to get certain resources. So when you have a community or families or people who are part of society, whose main thing is just to kind of survive, disabilities can push to the side. It's not in the forefront. So I completely get why it was that mentality where it's just like, you're coming from a mentality where it's about living prosperous with money, right? That's success. That's how you pretty much the Maslow hierarchy. Like money leads to shelter, leads to clothing, leads to food. And when you look at a disability, it's just not talked about because that sets you back in making money in survival. So back in Ghana and I feel like it's better now. I feel like there's more voices and more prominent voices coming along, but it is still a little bit scarce where disability is not mentioned, right? Disability is associated with the medical model where you need to to be healed. And this something happened to you. And this is a curse, right? Ben Akuoko: So with that said, it was a lot of butting heads with my parents and looking back, I don't blame them because here's them coming from a different country. As I made mention of the importance of intersectionality, a lot of organizations, especially when it comes to disability oriented organizations, go under the motto of that North American model, like, this is how we do it. We don't talk about race. We don't talk about culture. It's only disability. And I feel like that could be a little bit harmful because a perfect example for the audience members, if people know independent living skills. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Ben Akuoko: So an example would be they wanted to teach me how to make meals for myself. Ben Akuoko: So you would have an iOS specialist sent. And here's me if I want to make a meal of, I don't know, one of the traditional foods of jollof rice. If I wanted to make a meal of jollof rice, that orientation mobility specialist, if the like Canadian bound, they're like, what is that? Like, how do you make that? Although like people could easily look it up, but it's just not aware of like the other cultural sides of a person. And even another example, because my parents were at the time unaware about my vision, they're like, oh, this guy can see this guy could catch a football. He's not blind. When I he would use a cane, like my orientation mobility specialist would be like, man, you have to use a cane, you have to use a cane. And I'm like I don't want to really, but okay, let me try it out. And then when I go home, my parents are like, you don't need that. Why are you using cane? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, I understand. Ben Akuoko: And then and then after I would go back to school and not use the cane there like Ben. You're so stubborn. You don't want to listen. Why are you not using a cane? Then I get sent back and I'm using cane. My parents are like, we just told you, you don't need a cane. And it's like. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Ben Akuoko: What do you do as a young person who's right in the situation? You're like, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, you know? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, this is certainly an eye opener for our North American listeners, because I would say that a lot of us North Americans grew up in a different type of of milieu. And listening to your story, I think it's an eye opener for them. It's a lesson for them. And I want to admire the way that you've dealt with it. You know, like you're laughing about it now, but maybe at the time you weren't. But, you know, I can certainly empathize with going to school. You got to lose a cane, you got to use a cane, and then you go home. No, you don't need the king. Throw it away, you know, so it. Oh yes, indeed. It's it's quite something Ben Akuoko: It's very, very true. And then on top of that, you have so many other layers of barriers and stereotypes, right? So you have the stereotype of, oh, you're not smart enough to because your, your vision. Yeah. Or you can't do this. And then having as a black male as well, like, yeah, it was times where even the education system and educators would like, just give up on me. They're like, okay, like, you know, so it's almost like low standards. So it's like this compounded of extra layers of barriers. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: My goodness. Now, many of our listeners will recognize the experience of hiding their disability in order to fit in. You have described a period in your life when you refused the white cane, refused assistive technology and leaned on sports as a way to pass. What was the turning point that allowed you to stop hiding and to begin showing up as your full self? Ben Akuoko: So it has it's it's been a journey. It's been a journey of mistakes. It's been a journey of learning. It's been a journey of even seeing other people. So I used to tear up when I, I talked about my vision. I used to, there was friends of mine who were friends with me for ten years and didn't even really know what was going on with my eyes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, okay. Okay. Ben Akuoko: And I am lucky enough that I was part of the social service worker field. So yeah, as I go on on your podcast, I tell more about that, but I was lucky to be in that field. I was lucky to really be immersed in like psychology in the way we think a lot of like social work theories, as we know, cognitive behavior theory, right? Where I would I used to do counseling, like get counseled. And I remember my counselor using CBT and making mention, I'd be like, oh, I don't want to use a cane. Everybody's looking at me. And he, he made mention that, you know what, what if I told you that no one's looking at you? What if I told you people have their own lives that they could deal with and no one's looking at you. You just think people are looking at you, right? And just aspects such as that and like even meeting such successful, amazing people. And I feel like with the, the transformation of technology, we're able to, to see people do the things, you know, like successfully. So I know social media gets a bad rap, you know, like, yeah, but it has opened, no pun intended or eyes to the amazing things that people are doing around the world. And it is connecting people with sight loss and people with disabilities and people of interest together. Where before I'm like, I did not know another black person who had low vision. Like I felt like I was the only one. And then here comes the, the Zoom era and we're connecting. We're like, whoa, okay, I wasn't the only one. And, and you're getting to know people even just even with sailors in general. So I feel that what really helped me was being involved. And I would say technology really helped to connect. And then also using that social work background and that psychology background is the fact that, you know, you can't dwell on something you can't control. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Very important. Yes. Ben Akuoko: And another thing I told myself, you can't victimize yourself. You can't see yourself as a victim or people will see it as well. Right. Ben Akuoko: And the less you see yourself as a victim and the more that you say, okay, I can't control it. Let me just just ride the wave. Let me ride the wave. See where it takes me. Ben Akuoko: Then it's just I feel like life gets easier. And I feel like you. You don't let things bother you. So as I made mention, right now I am a full fledged cane user. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I good for you Mike. Ben Akuoko: I tell I do presentations for young people and I always tell people I'm like, I love my cane. Like it just seems like people come up to you, people talk to you, people move out of your way. I always joke around before I was a cane user and I walk around, I bump into someone and they'd be like now I bump into someone and it's not even their fault. And they're apologizing to me and I'm like. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Ben Akuoko: Yeah, yes, yes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I remember growing up, I was quite conscious of my own vision loss. And often times my mom or my granny would say to me, you think someone's looking at you? No one's looking at you. So I can empathize with with what you're saying for sure, you know? Now, some of the most painful stories that you have shared publicly is involved involves being racially profiled by police at university and being wrongly accused of theft in a store simply because of your vision impairment. Oh my goodness. And it required you to scan. Sorry, required you to scan aisles closely. Okay. What do those moments teach the rest of us about how disability and race intersect every day? Public spaces, and what should our authority figures be doing differently? Ben Akuoko: Yeah. So understand that by having these behaviors, it will get harder. Like no one wants to be accused of something they didn't do. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Ben Akuoko: But yeah. And just understand, like even me navigating this world as a young black man. Understand that even just that accusation will hit me harder. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Of course. Ben Akuoko: Because I've seen it happen to people I love. I have experienced it. And sometimes you just have to like the understanding of Noah. This. This may hit someone a little bit harder. Let me take it in a different way. Right. Ben Akuoko: And even just the understanding of like the, the oppression that certain people have been through and the marginalization. So I, even me, as I would say a cisgendered male. Right, right. I understand in the workplace to speak to, I have to watch the way I speak to a woman in the workplace. Right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Ben Akuoko: Because they can, they probably have experience being talked down to or extra explaining or even prejudice or discrimination. Right. So at the back of my mind, I have to be aware that, okay, maybe my tone has to change, right? Ben Akuoko: So I feel that it's so important to sort of understand that you just have to approach things a little bit differently. So like I said, as a young man, I remember being accused of stealing something I didn't. And it's just like, why is it that I am having to go through this or take off my bag. I remember back in the day when someone else just walked in with a purse. Yeah, yeah. And it's just kind of like, you have to understand that, you know, it definitely hits harder. And I know people are like, we want to treat everybody the same. And oh, we, we don't want theft and all that stuff, but just to kind of be a little bit more gentler. Right. Because you might not know this, but I probably at one point, I experienced this all the time. And it's just like when you get accused of things that you're not, you're not like even with sight loss, there's times where people would accuse me of being shady and sheisty. And it's like literally, I'm just walking to school. Or people would see someone who accused me of stealing at the store. Ben Akuoko: I'm literally just picking up deodorant, like, you know what I mean? So it's just you can really create a monster out of these false accusations, right? And I think it's also important for us as a society and have these different, I like to say coliseums of life, right? Where people get the opportunity to explain and share their stories. So even me as a black man with a low vision, right? I have my Coliseum and instances where I can share my story even for a person white dude with a disability, like has his opportunity to share his experiences even as a white male having the opportunity to share your experiences racialized woman. Like I think everybody should have the opportunity and we should give time to listen to everybody, right? And I feel like that gives a good way of conversation. And just to know that this behavior of like stereotyping and accusations, it's just not right. You know what I mean? It's, it's something that like, we have to, to really address. Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think yours is a very, very interesting and unique story in many, many ways. I mean, you know, you have to battle not only being a person with a vision loss, but also a person who you know, you're black, but it is nothing we can do about it. You know, I'm a woman. I have a vision impairment. So, you know, my mine is a different set of, of variables, but we're both in the same boat and boat in many ways. Right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So your educational journey took you from a social service worker diploma at Sheridan College through continuing studies at the Toronto Metropolitan University to a Bachelor of Social Work at Laurentian University, and finally to a Master of Social Work at Renaissance University College at the University of Waterloo. My goodness, you've traveled a lot. What pulled you towards social work in the first place and what kept you climbing? Ben Akuoko: Yes, yes. So I gotta say, at first, when I started my journey of social work at 18, I had no wanted, no part like I just took it to to take it. Oh, yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The truth comes out. Tell us, tell us. Ben Akuoko: The tea is spilling right now. The tea is filling. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, the tea is coming over the cup. I want to know more. Go ahead. Ben Akuoko: Absolutely, absolutely. So I remember, like coming out of school, I wanted to do massage therapy. I wanted to do video game programmer and just these just something that wasn't like social work. But I remember I had a, a family friend who used to be an employment counselor and she did that whole test, like, what color are you? So you have gold, you have green, you have orange and you have blue. Ben Akuoko: And with blue, blue means that you're compassionate and empathetic and skills that fit social work. Okay, so she recommended her. Why don't you try social work? Right. So I was like, okay, here's a 18 year old me. I, I was in a phase where I used to dress a little bit urban for sure. So like, you know, like I was inspired by rappers and all that stuff. So I definitely didn't look like I fit into to the class. And I remember I'm like, oh, why am I going into this field? 18 year old me thought, oh, this is a field for women. Like. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I love it. Ben Akuoko: Why am I here? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Sorry. Go ahead. Ben Akuoko: That's okay. And then all of a sudden, I remember my first three months and I was like, I love this. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Like Ben Akuoko: It was so much self exploration. Ben Akuoko: It had the psychology aspect. It had the sociology aspect. It had why we act this way. It showed something that I also learned with social work is like, you can pick what field you want to be in. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Ben Akuoko: And there's so many sectors when it comes to social work. You could do musical therapy, you could do theater therapy because I'm a huge creative, right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Ben Akuoko: Yeah. You could do counseling. You could work with underprivileged youth. And even the thing that as I did social work, I always wanted to work with youth as like, I always want to work with youth. And then as I went into my my concurrent ed education, so continue education. I took my bachelor's after and then I was just like, oh, I had my placement at a youth probation office and I was like, I love this. I like, I just love working with youth. Like, I just feel that it's so important to help our youth because they are our future. They're going to be our policy makers and decision makers. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Ben Akuoko: So as I, I went through my journey and I quickly highlight some of the, the sectors I was part of. I worked at a, a group home for individuals with mental health, which taught me a lot. I worked, as I said, in the youth probation office for my placement. I worked as an employment counselor. I worked as a peer employment mentor. I worked at a school for the blind as well. And it was just all these things were like, I connected so much with the young people and individuals that I worked with. And then I decided I was like, okay, you know what? Let me go get my master's. And it was such an emotional accomplishment because when I was younger, I did not apply myself. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh no. Ben Akuoko: I in school I was a D student. Like I almost got held back in elementary school and I was just not a good student. Like I, I didn't make the grades. I wouldn't do my homework. I just, I, I just wouldn't apply myself like I, I didn't, and even this is the intersectionality part of it as a black male, it's like, I don't want to be good at school. Like I want to be good at sports. Like. Ben Akuoko: Like, I don't want to be a nerd. I don't want to be Steve Urkel, you know? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Ben Akuoko: So my master's getting that just showed everybody that, like, although you're in elementary school, I didn't do that well in high school or I was subpar. Even my first year of university, I, I almost, I was on academic probation because I was so occupied in the social life and just to complete my master's. It was just the icing on the cake of my accomplishments. I used my technology to the fullest. I was able to advocate for myself when it came to the accessibility office. So this was like the pinnacle right there where it's just like, I never thought like us 16 to 25 year old me, if I would do my master's or if I could do my master's, and I'd be like, nope, I can't do that. It's too much. But now it's like with perseverance, with putting your nose to the grindstone, like it's possible. It is possible. And it was hard, but I overcame it for sure. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now my clock is winding down. But I got to ask you this question. Ben Akuoko: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: At Laurentian, you were the only Black male in your graduating class. Looking back now, what did that demographic isolation teach you that you carried into the advocacy work that you do today? Ben Akuoko: Absolutely. At first I was kind of like, oh man. Like, here's me being the only black male in my graduating class. But now I feel like I just kicked down the door to young black men who want to get into the social work field. And especially with my, my tenure at Laurentian, I went all the way up to Aurelia, where it's not really that much of a certain population. Right. So I feel that even with young black men racialized men, to get in the field like we need you, you guys. You know what I mean? We need you guys because there is young, young, black, racialized or even just racialized little boys out there who need someone in the social work field and who want to talk to someone who has experience, what they experience. Right? So I feel like it was such a blessing to be in that position. And I feel like I'm a trailblazer and like, really, I feel like these skills really help me navigate through life and got me to where I am today. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You shouldn't feel that you are a trailblazer. You are a trailblazer. I love that. Are the future you. We need people like you to really encourage and motivate the youngsters. Because if we don't take care of their future, who is going to do it? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So my final question to you, Ben, is. Have you thought of writing a book? Ben Akuoko: Absolutely. You took the thoughts right out of my head. I would love to write a book, and I'm actually writing sort of a draft. But yeah, still, you know, when you have to talk about yourself or write about yourself. Yes, you're like, I'm not that interesting. I'm, I'm not like, not that interesting, but even something like this and having the podcast, like what you're doing, it really pulls up a lot of things that I almost forgot about. So absolutely, I would, I would love to write a book. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think you owe it to the future of our children to write that book. And I would be one of the first ones to read that book because I think, you know, you've talked about so many different dimensions, so many different variables. And yours is in many ways is a very unique experience. And, and listening to you tells me that you're not afraid to tell what goes on. I mean, like your story about being in the store and being being falsely accused. I mean, I can understand, you know, like people think, oh, well, he's he's not blind because he can see. But then why the heck is he, you know, going close to things to see what they are, what's going on here, you know. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know. So what's next for Ben? What do you what's what's going on with you? Where are you going? Ben Akuoko: Good question. So I do have my, my business of the bright side scope, and that pretty much embodies everything we talked about today, where I want people to see like something different out there, a voice that's not heard because we hear a lot about blindness. Yeah, we hear a lot about race. We hear a lot about culture. But do we hear about it all mixed up together? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So no, we don't. Ben Akuoko: So with the bright side scope, it's an opportunity to not lose my culture, be proud of my my low vision. And just to show people from a positive ending or part of positive side of it, where when we think about race and oppression and disability and ableism, it's so heavy. It is so heavy. It can get really can bring us down, right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Ben Akuoko: But what I like to do is coming from what used to bring us down, what used to make us so heavy, and looking at our accomplishments and looking at the obstacles that we, we overcame and being able to enjoy it, being able to have those conversations like we're having today. And that's what the bright side scope is all about to show people, look, I'm having fun. I'm, I'm doing boxing as a, a blind person, boxing training. I ran a marathon as a blind person. I have a cane that I decorated with the Ghana colors. I'm going to watch the Ghana game in FIFA, you know? So. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh wow. Ben Akuoko: It's it's just these different things and these exciting things that people if you start to celebrate yourself, if you start to not victimize yourself, if you start to see yourself as worth it and just live what you want to live, don't, don't let blindness or don't let oppression or discrimination hold you back to where you got to be. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This has been one of the most motivating interviews that I have had, and I. I want others to hear it. The kids of the future deserve to hear what you have just said, and I want to thank you for having been on my podcast. And if at any time you want to come back and talk to us more about Brightside or anything, please do not hesitate to contact me. Ben Akuoko: Absolutely. And I'm so happy on all the things that you're doing. You are definitely, definitely amazing for what you're you're showing people. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you very much, Ben. So good luck to you. And I look forward to seeing that book maybe in the next year. How about that? Ben Akuoko: I get you to write my foreword. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, I'll be happy to do it. Thank you very much. Ben Akuoko: Thank you, I appreciate you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. You take care now. Ben Akuoko: You as well. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Bye bye. Ben Akuoko: Okay. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye bye. Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #91: Ask Advocate Donna

🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #91: Ask Advocate Donna | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-02-2026/ [https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-02-2026/] In this warm and instructive solo episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna returns for her second installment of the month with the May edition of Ask Advocate Donna, opening with one of her favorite mantras, "Speak in such a way that others love to listen to you; listen in such a way that others love to speak to you", and a word-game segment in which she walks listeners through two advocacy-relevant pairs: polite versus impolite, and proactive versus inactive. She makes the case that the polite route keeps an advocate in others' minds in a positive way, and that being proactive, leading by example, taking the bull by the horns, comes with heartache and high cost but also brings joy and fulfillment that the inactive route, by definition, never delivers. She then shares three listener-style advocacy stories, walking each one through her familiar what / how / when / why framework. In the first, a woman named Emma is misled by a cell phone store agent who sells her a phone that suits the store rather than her disability-related needs; Emma fights back by going to head office, threatening to take her case to Facebook and other social media, and enlisting her husband, her children, and their friends in an action plan, while her husband documents the store and the agent with photos. In the second, a mother named Beth confronts a bakery that refused to serve her autistic son Brent despite the written shopping list and cash he had been sent in with, and Beth wins the bakery's admission of wrongdoing by calmly drawing other customers into her side of the story and refusing to back down for an hour or two. In the third, a first-time babysitter refuses to put a blind three-year-old to bed while willingly tending to his two sighted siblings, ages ten and eight, and the older siblings become advocates in their own right by calling their parents home, leading to a calm sit-down between both sets of parents that resolves the incident, with the babysitter sent home unpaid and later corrected by her own parents. Donna closes by inviting listeners to send their own advocacy stories to her for future episodes. TRANSCRIPT Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello, I'm Donna J. Jodhan, your host for my solo solo podcast of Ask Donna or Ask Advocate Donna. For the month of May. This is my second solo podcast for this month. Ask advocate Donna, and I'm happy to be here with you and want to start off with one of my favorite quotes. Speak in such a way that others love to listen to you. Listen in such a way that others love to speak to you. This is really one of my favorite quotes. I Want to start off with my word game. I want to thank those of you who have commented on my word game and on my Ask Advocate Donna, monthly episodes or monthly podcasts. Thank you very much. And don't forget to contact me at Donna jordan@gmail.com. That's bonnajodhan@gmail.com. Okay, so let's start off with our word game. And most of the time, or a lot of the time, advocates are faced with these two alternatives to be polite or to be impolite. What does this all mean? Well, most of the time I choose the polite alternative. But sometimes I'm awfully tempted to use the impolite alternative, and I will tell you that this does not, most of the time, does not bring you brownie points for light is when you know that something is right or something may not be right, but on the. On the whole, for light could be. When something is not absolutely correct when being spoken by someone else, but you're too polite to say this to them. Instead, you choose the polite route. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Sometimes when someone says something to you, you can't help yourself because you know how wrong it is, or incorrect or inappropriate it is. So what you do is you become impolite. And I would say, let's choose the polite route as opposed to the impolite route, because very often the polite route keeps you in the minds of those around you. The impolite route. Sure, it does the same, but for where is the polite route? Keeps you in the mind of others in a positive manner. The impolite route does not. My next pair of words for your consideration today is proactive versus inactive. And very often in the field of advocacy, we need to consider if we want to be proactive and that means take the bull by the horns and run with it. Become the one who leads by example. An inactive means that you do nothing. You just depend on others to push you along, or you depend on others to develop the solutions or to develop the suggestions. And all you do is just to follow. So proactive means to lead. Inactive means to follow. And in the world of an advocate, we need to decide which best suits us. Becoming a leader has its heartaches, becoming its leader. A leader has its joys and it has its fulfillment. But it doesn't come easy. It comes at a very high cost because you put yourself out there. So, you know, whenever criticisms are made or whenever the going gets tough, the tough get going. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Inactive means and it's not always viewed as being negative, but most times I think it is because you're not taking the initiative, you're simply sitting back and allowing others to do the work. But it's our choice. Always proactive or inactive. Okay, now I want to share my stories with you for this month. I have three stories to share with you and the title to the first story. And it all has to do with advocacy. It has to do with a cell phone store that robbed a lady with a disability. Okay, what happened here is that the lady went into the cell phone store in order to purchase a new cell phone. The customer rep or customer agent dealing with her, know darn well that she was a person with a disability. But instead of advising this lady to choose the best cell phone that suited her needs slash requirements, they deliberately took the path to mislead this lady. Okay. So this was lady. Her name was Emma. Emma went into a cell phone store in her neighborhood. She wanted to buy the most recent or most recognized cell phone. The most modern, but the most. Oh, gosh. I'm using losing my words here. But she wanted to buy the latest cell phone, and so she approached the agent at the desk, told them her story, told them what she was looking for, And he took her information, pretended to be nice to her, smiled with her, told her that he would, you know, choose the best cell phone for her. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But what he did, in essence, was chose the best cell phone that the store had to offer, never really paying attention to what Emma wanted. So what did Emma do? Well, Emma went off when she went home, and her husband told her that she. He felt that she had been misled. Emma went straight to the head office of this cell phone store and lost her complaint. At first she was listened to, but then it appeared that the head office was not really going to do anything. So Emma decided to be a bit bold and she went off. Before she did this, she told them that she would be going to Facebook and pleading her case, and she would be going to other social media outlets and reporting the incident. Her husband went back and took photos of the store and of the same agent that was in the store that had dealt with Emma. Okay, so what does this all mean? What is advocacy all about? Advocacy is when one really believes that one has to advocate for something that has not been dealt with appropriately and properly. And this is what Emma did. How to get involved with advocacy. You get involved with advocacy by enlisting the help and support of other people, and Emma enlisted the support of her husband, and later on, she enlisted the support of her children and their friends, and they all put together an action plan for Emma first to go to the head office and then to put this thing on social media. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: When does one get involved in advocacy? One gets involved in advocacy. When again, if there is a need. And why does one get involved in advocacy? It's all about trying to right a wrong, or bringing what has happened to the notice of a wider circle of readers and listeners? Okay, let's go to my second story of the day. All right. This is all about a bakery that refused to serve an autistic kid. And this was submitted to us by a very distraught mother. Her name was Beth, and her son's name was Brent. She had sent Brent with the with a list of what she wanted from the bakery. And with the appropriate cash that was needed to purchase what she wanted. Because Beth had been a regular customer at this bakery. So Brent came into the bakery. They knew who he was because he often, you know, went to the bakery with his mom. But because today he was on his own, they refused, downright refused to serve him, saying that, you know, they didn't want to serve him because he didn't know what he was saying or doing. Despite written instructions given to him by his mum. And he had shown it to the cashier and to the attendants for a better word at the bakery counter. But they refused, downright refused. But first, poor Brent did not know what to do. But then, when he realized that no one was going to help him or serve him, he ran back home and told his mum and his mum went with him to the bakery and confronted the cashier and the attendant and asked them why did they not serve his or her son, despite the fact that she had given him written instructions as to what she wanted. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Of course, they did not come out right and say, oh, because your son is autistic. No, they would never do that. So. What did she do? She did something a little bit different. She went off and she started to attract the attention of those in the bakery, telling them what had happened. Some of them listened attentively. Some of them did more than being attentive in that they saw what the bakery had done to Brent, and so she decided to chat with them and decided to tell them her side of the story. It wasn't easy. It was very painful for Beth, but she decided to persevere. And I think after an hour or two, according to her account to us, she did start to get somewhere with this bakery. And she reasoned with them. She used calm, a calm composure to deal with them, and it worked. So I ask you the question, what is advocacy all about? In this case, advocacy is standing up for your rights when you think you have been wronged. And in this case, Beth honestly felt that Brent, her son, her autistic son, was wronged, took a lot out of her to do it. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But those around her, those who decided to support her, were very, very true and very, you know, Determined to see justice being done here. The bakery listened. The bakery admitted that they were wrong, which not many people would do, but they did. So this is what advocacy is all about. When you decide to stand up for something you feel has not been, you know, the right thing that has been done. How do you get involved in it? By enlisting the help of others, which is what Beth did with those around her in the bakery. How do you do it again? That's what you do. You enlist the help of others. So you have your what? You have your how you have your win. And when is when you think something needs to be addressed. Why my advocacy? Again, they're all similar in reasoning. But why you got involved is because you want something to be right in. Okay. So this is what happened with Beth and her autistic son Brett, and the bakery in their neighborhood. And the third story for this month is this. We have a babysitter who refused to help the little toddler because the toddler was blind. Now, this was the first time that this particular babysitter was coming in to do some babysitting for the parents of this child who was blind, and his two siblings who were sighted, the babysitter put the sighted children to bed. But when it came to the undecided one, okay, the babysitter said or refused to help. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And despite, you know appeals from the two sighted siblings, she refused to help the sibling who was blind. She said she was not being paid to help anyone like this. Now the two sighted siblings were the older ones, one was ten and one was eight. And the babysitter? Sorry. The. Sibling who was blind or the child who was blind was three years old. So you had a ten year old, an eight year old and a three year old? Well, what did these two older ones do? They kept saying to her, you have to help or sister get or brother. Sorry. Get into bed. She kept refusing. So finally the older sibling decided to call their parents and tell their parents what was going on. This is advocacy in its truest form, from a young person, a young so-called advocate who probably, you know, would not think that they were being an advocate, but they just felt that their youngest sibling needed help. So, you know, it had to be given. Parents rushed home and confronted the babysitter, and the babysitter said the same thing. She was not being paid to help someone who she felt could help themselves. So they had a chat, a very interesting chat, and at the end of it all the babysitter left And the parents did not pay the babysitter because they said that they had told the babysitter beforehand that that there was a child with a vision impairment, but the babysitter refused. She left. She was not paid. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: She went home and she told her parents. So now we have a confrontation between the parents of the child who has a vision impairment, and the parents who had a babysitting age child who refused to help a blind person or child that they were supposed to babysit. Well, a few days later, the parents all got together. Along with this, the children of the parents who had the vision impaired child and the parents of the babysitter. Thank goodness this was a reasonable sit down chat and the child of or the babysitter was spoken to by her parents and told that it did not matter what it was, but she should have helped the kid or the child with the vision impairment. It all worked out, thank goodness. So what is advocacy in this case? Advocacy is when everybody got together to hash out an incident that took place. Why was it necessary? Because one set of parents wanted the other set of parents to know that this was not right and why it was not right. How did advocacy take place when they all got together. And when this advocacy take place, it takes place when something needs to be addressed. Okay, those are my stories for this month for the Ask Advocate Donna feature for the month of May. Thank you very much, everyone for tuning in. Please, if you have any stories to share, send them to me at Donna jordan@gmail.com. That's donnajodhan@gmail.com. Take care everybody, and I will see you next month. Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donna jodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #90: When Piggybacking Occurs

🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #90: When Piggybacking Occurs | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-01-2026/ [https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-05-01-2026/] In this pointed and unflinching solo episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna opens the month of May with a warning to her listeners about what she calls the "piggybacking problem", companies that walk into the blind, vision-impaired, and broader disability community posing as saviors and accessibility experts while, in her words, being "wolves in sheep's clothing." She argues that these outfits arrive claiming the expertise needed to make services, websites, and information accessible, and claiming to understand what people with disabilities actually need, when in reality they have never walked a mile in the community's shoes, have no real grasp of which software works and which does not, and are simply piggybacking on the community's vulnerability to fill their own pockets. Donna names one company in particular, Innosearch, and accuses it of doing exactly that under the banner of helping the community shop and travel more independently, only to leave the community "high and dry" once its own pockets were full. She makes clear that this is her opinion, acknowledges that Innosearch is far from the only company guilty of the pattern, and signs off with a wish for a great day and a promise to return shortly with her second episode of the month. TRANSCRIPT Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello there. And I'm Donna J. Jodhan. It's a beautiful month of May, and I'm happy to start it off with my very first podcast for this month. I always enjoy the month of May and I hope everybody is doing just fine. Okay, so what I'd like to start off with my first solo podcast for this month is all about the piggybacking problem. Okay. Now I, I'm very sure that most of you know what piggybacking is all about, but here is my take on what happens when piggybacking occurs. Okay. We have here wolves in sheep's clothing. And what do I mean by this? It's all about those who pose as sheep. And what I mean is that they come to communities made up of vulnerable persons. Persons who are blind and visually impaired or vision impaired, as I like to say, or those with other types of disabilities. They come in posing as saviors, posing as sheep. But yeah, in wolf's clothing. And they say that, you know, they are here for the well-being of our community. They're here to ensure that we have an equal chance at not just generating income, but also competing on the stage, be it on the world stage or the state stage or the province stage. All well and good. They pretended to have the expertise that is needed to make services, websites and info all accessible to everyone, especially to those of us with a disability. And they also pretend to know how to help persons with disabilities with regard to their needs and requirements. And in essence, they have no clue as to what software works okay. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And what software does not work when it comes to accessibility. That's what it is. They have never, ever walked a mile in our shoes. But what it is or what is happening here is that they think and they truly believe, that they could just waltz in and become our saviors. They could just wash sin in sheep's clothing and become the ones that will help us to better our lives. And I tell you that this is not the case. One company that I'm going to call out is Infosearch. Innosearch. This is a company that has Walston and has said that, you know, they would help us to become better able to conduct our shopping, conduct, our travel needs, and more. Sure, they've done it, but they did it for a reason. They did not do it for the welfare of our community. They did it to fill their pockets. They piggybacked on us. They used our needs and our requirements and our vulnerability and our weaknesses to fill their pockets. And when they've done. Filling their pockets, they have left us high and dry. They're not the only company. There are many, many other companies who have done this, but I just wanted to voice my opinion with regard to the problem with piggy backing, those with so-called expertise, those with so-called goodwill. But in essence, they're just sheep or wolves in sheep's clothing. Wolves in sheep's clothing. And Donna Jodhan, wishing you a great day. And look for me with my second episode for the month of May shortly. Bye for now. Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.